04-05-19 02:19 PM
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  1. RLeeSimon's Avatar
    Would someone smart please explain the teleological or physico-theological argument for removal of phone call activity and crippled SMS activity in the latest version of Hub.

    Someone is aware of this since the naming of the home page icon became "inbox."

    Aside the fanciful behavior of Android offering changes, was there an valid reasoning?
    Last edited by RLeeSimon; 03-26-19 at 04:12 PM.
    03-26-19 01:35 PM
  2. Munchkinguy's Avatar
    Google is God.
    It is good to obey God.
    Therefore, it is good to obey Google.

    Google wants to restrict SMS the permissions granted to non-SMS apps.
    BlackBerry Hub is not an SMS app.
    Therefore, Google wants to restrict the permissions granted to the Blackberry Hub.

    Google orders BlackBerry to restrict the SMS permissions granted to the Hub.
    It is good to obey Google.
    Therefore, BlackBerry will restrict the SMS permissions granted to the Hub.
    03-26-19 01:47 PM
  3. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Aside the fanciful behavior of Android offering changes, was there an valid reasoning?
    Depends on what you consider valid. In the eyes of Google, your call logs and SMS logs are very private things and as such, they made the changes to improve privacy as apps will either now no longer have access to those things or if they are given access, it's by Google's approval.

    A lot of apps were requesting access to such things for no reason at all, and end users not reading or understanding the permissions is a big problem on Android. If no access is given, there's nothing to not read, nothing to not understand, and ultimately no information to siphon off on unwitting users.

    The long and the short if it is that it's good that Google is attempting to lock things down in more ways, but like almost always when things like that occur, things get broken. There has always been a balance between what users want to do on their devices, and what keeps them secure. It would have been better if Google had this approach to start, that way no one would know what they were missing but alas, didn't happen that way.
    03-26-19 01:47 PM
  4. howarmat's Avatar
    New lets say regulations from Google basically changed behavior of some OS operations. Thus several apps are affected by this.
    03-26-19 01:54 PM
  5. dendron01's Avatar
    Would someone smart please explain the teleological or physico-theological argument for removal of phone call activity and crippled SMS activity in the latest version of Hub.

    Someone is aware of the, since the naming of the home page icon became "inbox."

    Aside the fanciful behavior of Android offering changes, was there an valid reasoning?
    From what I have gleaned from what minimal information that has been made available publicly about these Google changes mandated back in Oct 2018 and only recently fully implemented by BlackBerry: only the user specified default SMS and Phone apps can have full access. BlackBerry has no SMS or Phone app, so...
    03-26-19 01:54 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    From what I have gleaned from what minimal information that has been made available publicly about these Google changes mandated back in Oct 2018 and only recently fully implemented by BlackBerry: only the user specified default SMS and Phone apps can have full access. BlackBerry has no SMS or Phone app, so...
    Even if BlackBerry had its own separate phone and SMS apps, the HUB's Inbox would still not have access to the logs.
    BigAl_BB9900 and Vistaus like this.
    03-26-19 01:58 PM
  7. dendron01's Avatar
    Even if BlackBerry had its own separate phone and SMS apps, the HUB's Inbox would still not have access to the logs.
    And what proof do you have to substantiate this?
    03-26-19 01:59 PM
  8. conite's Avatar
    And what proof do you have to substantiate this?
    That's how the new permissions work. It's as simple as that. That information cannot move between apps.

    If you are actually referring to a pre-installed Inbox app that had a built-in SMS client, then that would be different. However, then they would run into all of the global regulatory, certification, and compliance problems that were alluded to by the lead developer.
    BigAl_BB9900 and tmarcin like this.
    03-26-19 02:01 PM
  9. dendron01's Avatar
    That's how the new permissions work. It's as simple as that. That information cannot move between apps.

    If you are actually referring to a pre-installed Inbox app that had a built-in SMS client, then that would be different. However, then they would run into all of the global regulatory, certification, and compliance problems that were alluded to by the lead developer.
    As Bla1ze alluded to above, Google can also grant the permission at its discretion.

    In a different thread, someone from BlackBerry claimed BlackBerry had requested this permission for its Hub, but was denied. Hence the greatly reduced and partially crippled "Inbox" we are left with as a result.

    Other OEMs develop their own apps for SMS and Phone on Android. I think now it is clear why - to insulate themselves, their customers, and the experience they are attempting to provide on Android and on their own devices, from Google.

    The fact is, we don't know if the outcome of that discussion would have been any different if BlackBerry actually had its own SMS and phone app when these changes occurred. Perhaps Google would have allowed it.

    The only thing we know for sure is that BlackBerry's lackadaisical approach to Android from day one was to (a) not develop its own SMS and phone app and piggyback off the Google defaults instead and (b) not develop the Hub as a standalone SMS app, as was the case for BB10. BlackBerry's approach with BB10 was clearly the correct one, and not surprisingly, the only way it can work properly on Android as well.

    Why this wasn't done can obviously only be speculated upon (your labelling of the Hub+ Suite as a "profit centre" is a huge clue, IMHO), but what is clear to me is that we are beginning to witness the consequences of BlackBerry's lack of a sufficient and meaningful investment in the Android ecosystem - namely, the critical erosion of one of its key selling points, the BlackBerry Hub.
    brian4591 likes this.
    03-26-19 02:27 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    Other OEMs develop their own apps for SMS and Phone on Android.
    It's actually going the other way.

    LG, Motorola, Sony, HTC, ZTE, Micromax, Nokia, Archos, BQ, Cherry Mobile, Condor, Fly, General Mobile, Lanix, LeEco, Lava, Kyocera, MyPhone, QMobile, Symphony and Wiko, along with Pixel and Android One devices will all be using Google Messages as default.

    The international labyrinth of regulations have now made it all but impossible for even many of the large OEMs.
    BigAl_BB9900 likes this.
    03-26-19 02:31 PM
  11. dendron01's Avatar
    It's actually going the other way.

    LG, Motorola, Sony, HTC, ZTE, Micromax, Nokia, Archos, BQ, Cherry Mobile, Condor, Fly, General Mobile, Lanix, LeEco, Lava, Kyocera, MyPhone, QMobile, Symphony and Wiko, along with Pixel and Android One devices will all be using Google Messages as default.
    Well you can remove Pixel from that list as it IS Android LOL.

    As for the rest, that's quite a collection BlackBerry is keeping company with these days. I believe the term ambassador thurask used was "Chinese garbagephones".

    As for Samsung and Huawai, the two largest Android OEMs by a huge margin - conspicuously absent from this all-star list of OEMs without their own SMS and Phone app.

    Are you starting to see a pattern here?
    03-26-19 02:41 PM
  12. conite's Avatar

    Are you starting to see a pattern here?
    Yes. The two remaining mobile companies with unlimited financial resources are not on the list.
    dantheman77 and tmarcin like this.
    03-26-19 02:42 PM
  13. dendron01's Avatar
    Yes. The two remaining mobile companies with unlimited financial resources are not on the list.
    LOL. There is no such thing.

    Now - as for brand focus, and commitment to customer experience, and investing what is necessary - that is another matter entirely.
    03-26-19 02:43 PM
  14. conite's Avatar
    LOL. There is no such thing.
    Don't be silly, you know exactly what I meant.

    Fine, the two companies that can move financial mountains are not on the list.
    03-26-19 02:44 PM
  15. dendron01's Avatar
    Don't be silly, you know exactly what I meant.

    Fine, the two companies that can move financial mountains are not on the list.
    I'm not being silly at all. Even you yourself have said developing an SMS app is relatively simple exercise. BlackBerry chose not to do it, and you are trying to suggest it's only because they are not a Samsung or a Huawai as the reason.

    It's a convenient argument, but I'm not buying it. And I don't think many BlackBerry customers that are disappointed in BlackBerry's inability to deliver on one of it's core features, the BlackBerry Hub, are either.
    03-26-19 02:50 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    I'm not being silly at all. Even you yourself have said developing an SMS app is relatively simple exercise. BlackBerry chose not to do it, and you are trying to suggest it's only because they are not a Samsung or a Huawai as the reason.
    Developing the app is not the issue.

    It's the whole governance side of the equation - the global certifications and regulatory hurdles, working closely with hundreds of carriers around the world.
    tmarcin likes this.
    03-26-19 02:52 PM
  17. dendron01's Avatar
    Developing the app is not the issue.

    It's the whole governance side of the equation - the global certifications and regulatory hurdles, working closely with hundreds of carriers around the world.
    Which TCL / BlackBerry Mobile supposedly has (had?) the wherewithal to achieve and deliver on, and why they were chosen as a licensee. So which is it then, conite? You can't have it both ways!
    03-26-19 02:54 PM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Which TCL / BlackBerry Mobile supposedly has (had?) the wherewithal to achieve and deliver on, and why they were chosen as a licensee. So which is it then, conite? You can't have it both ways!
    Says who?

    They have had some incremental success with a select few carriers, but no where near the scale required for this.

    Besides, this is a BlackBerry issue.
    tmarcin likes this.
    03-26-19 02:55 PM
  19. dendron01's Avatar
    Says who?
    You. LOL.
    03-26-19 02:56 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    You. LOL.
    ?????

    They have had some incremental success with a select few carriers, but no where near the scale required for this.

    Besides, this is a BlackBerry issue.
    03-26-19 02:57 PM
  21. dendron01's Avatar
    ?????

    They have had some incremental success with a select few carriers, but no where near the scale required for this.

    Besides, this is a BlackBerry issue.
    Go back and edit a few more posts conite. I've said what I have to say.
    03-26-19 03:41 PM
  22. RLeeSimon's Avatar
    Don't be silly, you know exactly what I meant.

    Fine, the two companies that can move financial mountains are not on the list.
    Apple & Microsoft, eh?
    03-26-19 04:06 PM
  23. conite's Avatar
    Apple & Microsoft, eh?
    Well, we WERE talking about Android OEMs.
    tmarcin likes this.
    03-26-19 04:06 PM
  24. RLeeSimon's Avatar
    watch, both a&m will proffer devices running skinned android unrecognizable so they can spew their content over 5g to the dithering masses already hopped up on THC and José Quervo...
    03-26-19 04:11 PM
  25. conite's Avatar
    watch, both a&m will proffer devices running skinned android unrecognizable so they can spew their content over 5g to the dithering masses already hopped up on THC and José Quervo...
    I'll just stick with the Quervo.
    meztek likes this.
    03-26-19 04:25 PM
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