1. muindor's Avatar
    Before this will turn into a "taking the ****" thread, to those who are likely to take the **** and don't give any valuable information, just leave and ignore this thread now as the aim here is to gather valuable information about the privacy of each individual using a phone / KEYone.

    As we all know Google likes to know a few things about some customers.

    Does BlackBerry's Android 'sniff' as much in the users phone privacy as non-BlackBerry Androids? How far does the users control of his/her phone privacy reach? Is Google constantly monitoring the usage of the phone/user? Can it record voices/videos without us not noticing?

    Thank you for any *valuable* information.

    Posted via CB10
    04-03-17 07:32 AM
  2. conite's Avatar
    BlackBerry Android does not differ from any other Google-certified device in this regard.

    Google sniffs to direct advertising, and to provide tailored services.

    You can edit your Google Privacy settings to reduce the consumption a bit, or move to the paid suite to get rid of it.
    Thud Hardsmack likes this.
    04-03-17 08:05 AM
  3. muindor's Avatar
    BlackBerry Android does not differ from any other Google-certified device in this regard.

    Google sniffs to direct advertising, and to provide tailored services.

    You can edit your Google Privacy settings to reduce the consumption a bit, or move to the paid suite to get rid of it.
    Thank you so far, Conite.

    So there is a payed Google account which doesn't push adverts on your phone? Does this stop the sniffing as well or does it still collecting information about users?

    What I was also wondering about BB10: does it sniff too or is it less or is there no sniffing from BB10?

    Posted via CB10
    04-03-17 10:05 AM
  4. howarmat's Avatar
    google doesnt push advertisements to your phone. Apps you download will contain ads sometimes
    Thud Hardsmack likes this.
    04-03-17 10:08 AM
  5. Uzi's Avatar
    @Troy Tiscareno would be the best to explain this. From my personal experience using priv doesn't different from any other android ..dtek app also not monitoring google apps pre installed, regarding advertising it depends on what apps you using
    Thud Hardsmack likes this.
    04-03-17 10:18 AM
  6. conite's Avatar
    Thank you so far, Conite.

    So there is a payed Google account which doesn't push adverts on your phone? Does this stop the sniffing as well or does it still collecting information about users?

    What I was also wondering about BB10: does it sniff too or is it less or is there no sniffing from BB10?

    Posted via CB10
    The more Google Apps you use, the more information it can collect about you. It's not completely nefarious though. Google collects information to provide advertising, but it also provides you with a lot of services, and enhances those services with the additional information.
    mbirth and muindor like this.
    04-03-17 11:24 AM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    OK, some facts to be aware of:

    - ALL phones have the ability to have the carrier remotely turn on the mic, GPS, and/or camera without you being aware of it. Phones have had this capability for decades, long before smartphones. Law enforcement uses this capability all the time (working with the carriers) on drug and child-abduction and other high-profile cases. This is different, though, than people having this access via the Internet and the OS (the carrier does it at the firmware level).

    - All carriers, and all phone manufacturers, and all OS manufacturers, collect usage data from their smartphones. That includes BlackBerry - and Apple, Microsoft, Samsung, TCL, Nokia, etc. BB Android isn't significantly different than any other Android phone.

    - Any app you use - even "stock" apps - can collect your data. For example, "BlackBerry Travel" wasn't really a BlackBerry service, it was WorldMate, who BB partnered with. All of your contact and travel data was sent to WorldMate so that the app could provide you with info and services. BB did some or all of the programming of the BBOS and BB10 phone apps, but they just linked to the WorldMate online service, which did all the heavy lifting.

    - Google collects additional information IF you use their services and IF you specifically allow them to. Users have quite a bit of control over the data they allow Google to collect and Google has excellent features to allow you to configure this. Few bother to use them, though, as nearly all of the ways that Google collects data allows additional features for end-users - features that most people value and desire.

    - It must me mentioned again that Google does not sell user data to anyone. Rather, they sell advertising access to you, so that when you go to a website that uses Google for their ad networks, you'll be more likely to see ads for things that you are interested in, and if you choose to download and use "free" ad-supported apps (there is often a paid, ad-free version of the app, of course), you'll again get ads that you're likely to be interested in. If Google sold your actual info, their entire advertising model would collapse and they would go bankrupt, so they have enormous motivation not to do that. It would be like Coke selling their Coke syrup recipe (which you'd only need once) instead of selling you sodas your entire life.

    - For $60/year ($5/month), you can subscribe to G-Suite (formerly Google For Work), which is a corporate account, and will prevent the collection of data from email or Hangouts messaging (and you won't get Google ads in Gmail either) - but you'd still need to turn off other controls yourself and avoid websites that Google tracks, etc., to prevent other forms of data collection (things that happen no matter what device or OS or browser you use).
    muindor, jmr1015, dpgo and 3 others like this.
    04-03-17 11:34 AM
  8. gizmo21's Avatar
    As mentioned before, "Android powered by BlackBerry" is still a vanilla google android with full google mobile services (https://www.android.com/gms/).

    It is hardened in some fields of bootloader and detecting changes to the OS and has some advanced permission control and usage monitoring system a.k.a. DTEK BUT this explicitly does NOT monitor preinstalled BlackBerry AND Google apps (which is a shame BB).

    So yes in the field of privacy towards google, it's the same as using any other Android phone with google mobile services.

    You could try not using too much of the google services (use different messaging app, mapping app, photo gallery, browser, not using Google Now and try to avoid google cloud storage for profile and documents ...).

    But as an example still every time you activate Location Service on device it defaults to "high precision" which is scanning wifi SSIDs and mobile tower IDs to compare it with google database to present you a more precise location. You can activate GPS only, but after turning off it defaults again to high precision. You can deactivate saving your locations in your google profile (http://help.blackberry.com/en/priv/c...406266110.html), well at least you can't see any data there then, but who knows where it saved after all

    Only with pure Android AOSP devices (e.g. former Cyanogen devices) without google services you could get a bit away from sniffing google.


    Profile backup:
    http://help.blackberry.com/en/priv/c...lp/backup.html
    Last edited by gizmo21; 04-04-17 at 08:30 AM.
    anon(3641385) and muindor like this.
    04-03-17 11:38 PM
  9. muindor's Avatar
    Wow thank you all for this information. This is great input and clarifies a lot.

    I do understand it a bit better now but still am a bit concerned regarding what's out of my control, and how much is out of my control, compared to BlackBerry.

    As my Z30 is dying for some reason (since Autoloading the latest OS, no one can hear me on the phone talking unless I put the call on loudspeaker) I'm considering the amazing looking KEYone but the concerns make me hesitate to pre-order that thing.

    How about the danger of viruses? Or the hacking of the phone? Is this sorted by the BlackBerry part that this won't happen? This all might sound very paranoid but not being concerned about this stuff is careless in my opinion, which is why I'm asking here.

    Thank you again and have a great day.

    Posted via CB10
    04-04-17 02:53 AM
  10. gizmo21's Avatar
    How about the danger of viruses? Or the hacking of the phone? Is this sorted by the BlackBerry part that this won't happen? This all might sound very paranoid but not being concerned about this stuff is careless in my opinion, which is why I'm asking here.

    Thank you again and have a great day.

    Posted via CB10
    This is perhaps the only field where you could feel a bit more comfortable than with any other android device.
    If you don't mind reading marketing stuff of BB and google, you get some points there:
    PRIV is for Private: How BlackBerry Secures the Android Platform | Inside BlackBerry
    Why BlackBerry’s Android is Best for Security and Privacy | Inside BlackBerry
    Beating Expectations: Android Security Patching for PRIV | Inside BlackBerry
    PRIV named one of the most secure Android smartphones of 2016 | CrackBerry.com

    As the PRIV nor any DTEK-phone are rooted so far it seems that "marketing speech" has at least bit truth in it.

    On top just avoid any sideloading of apps and have an open eye when installing rather unknown or extremely new apps from google play store, plus be aware of social engineering via messages of any kind, use an ad-blocker in browsers and voilà you should be quite save.

    BUT as it is always a cat-and-mouse game in security, you can never be sure and as android just became biggest OS (now putting Windows in place two) it is a valuable target:
    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/new...rus-solutions/
    Last edited by gizmo21; 04-04-17 at 09:19 AM.
    muindor likes this.
    04-04-17 09:08 AM
  11. thurask's Avatar
    How about the danger of viruses? Or the hacking of the phone? Is this sorted by the BlackBerry part that this won't happen? This all might sound very paranoid but not being concerned about this stuff is careless in my opinion, which is why I'm asking here.
    The vast majority of potential attacks require the user to be careless, installing random crapware, perusing the finest of Chinese APK sites, things like that. Common sense is the best antivirus, although regular device updates does boost protection quite a bit. Just hope BlackBerry keeps up the updating.
    04-04-17 09:11 AM
  12. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    It's true that there are more viruses on Android than any other OS... but the REST of that story is that almost all of them are on Asian-market phones (mostly Chinese) where the Google Play Store and other Google stuff is blocked, and where people use a number of different third-party (and frequently pirate) app stores. China alone is a massive market, so the numbers are high, but the number of phones that are official Play Store-authorized phones that have malware is quite low - and a big percentage of those infected phones are infected by side-loading APKs from other (i.e., pirate) sources or using alternative app stores. Yes, there are also older, unpatched phones that get infected via the web too, but if you're using a 4-5 year old phone that hasn't seen a security update in years, well, you're taking a known risk.

    The chances of an infection on an actively supported phone running a current version of the OS (meaning, the latest release or the one just behind it) and using only the Play Store for apps is very, very low.
    Ecm likes this.
    04-04-17 10:37 AM
  13. anon(8080272)'s Avatar
    It's true that there are more viruses on Android than any other OS... but the REST of that story is that almost all of them are on Asian-market phones (mostly Chinese) where the Google Play Store and other Google stuff is blocked, and where people use a number of different third-party (and frequently pirate) app stores. China alone is a massive market, so the numbers are high, but the number of phones that are official Play Store-authorized phones that have malware is quite low - and a big percentage of those infected phones are infected by side-loading APKs from other (i.e., pirate) sources or using alternative app stores. Yes, there are also older, unpatched phones that get infected via the web too, but if you're using a 4-5 year old phone that hasn't seen a security update in years, well, you're taking a known risk.

    The chances of an infection on an actively supported phone running a current version of the OS (meaning, the latest release or the one just behind it) and using only the Play Store for apps is very, very low.
    Has the vetting process for publishing to the Google Play store been tightened? I recall not that long ago (back in Galaxy S2 and S3 days) when some awful, malware-laden apps were downloadable.
    04-04-17 10:56 AM
  14. conite's Avatar
    Has the vetting process for publishing to the Google Play store been tightened? I recall not that long ago (back in Galaxy S2 and S3 days) when some awful, malware-laden apps were downloadable.
    Yes. Plus, Google Play Services, on your device itself, actively scans for infection and can prevent installation of apps from Play Store AND unknown sources.
    Ecm likes this.
    04-04-17 11:22 AM
  15. deadcowboy's Avatar
    The more Google Apps you use, the more information it can collect about you. It's not completely nefarious though. Google collects information to provide advertising, but it also provides you with a lot of services, and enhances those services with the additional information.
    We as consumers have no idea how nefarious or not Google's data collection programs really are. Why give them the benefit of the doubt?

    Posted via CB10
    04-04-17 01:08 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    We as consumers have no idea how nefarious or not Google's data collection programs really are. Why give them the benefit of the doubt?

    Posted via CB10
    Google's Terms of Service and privacy policies are very clear. They are also a public company, and have to answer to shareholders and regulatory bodies. Breaking the TOS would be an actionable offence under the law.

    Their entire business model depends on how well they protect their users' data - and they spend hundreds of millions of dollars hardening their systems every year.
    Thud Hardsmack and jmr1015 like this.
    04-04-17 01:22 PM
  17. thurask's Avatar
    And before someone chimes in with "The Google TOS is just a smoke screen!!!", if that was true then any company could put out a piece of legalese saying that they're not doing something when they actually would be, even BlackBerry. If that's the case then the only difference between the two companies is that only one has an OS that has a pulse.
    Thud Hardsmack and jmr1015 like this.
    04-04-17 01:33 PM
  18. docfreed's Avatar
    Would a VPN on the Priv (or any Android Phone for that matter) reduce the "sniffing. As I recall
    Google (or anyone) would be able to see what sites you are viewing but not the content if you
    have a VPN installed.
    Is anyone using a VPN on their Priv?
    04-09-17 05:35 AM
  19. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Would a VPN on the Priv (or any Android Phone for that matter) reduce the "sniffing. As I recall
    Google (or anyone) would be able to see what sites you are viewing but not the content if you
    have a VPN installed.
    Is anyone using a VPN on their Priv?
    If Google can see the site, they can see the content. That's how they built their search engine.

    Top 10 Myths About Virtual Private Networks (VPNs) Debunked

    See #7
    Last edited by Fret Madden; 04-09-17 at 06:01 AM.
    jmr1015 likes this.
    04-09-17 05:49 AM
  20. docfreed's Avatar
    With all due respect, #7 is wrong. Most of the better (read:PAID) VPN's do not log anything. Nord VPN, Express VPN, etc do not keep logs and they have been examined by many security experts - lots of hard evidence on this. As I said, Google (and others can see what website you're on but not what you are viewing. Think what the consequences would be if Google could see your bank account contents while you were doing on-line banking - they would be out of business in a heartbeat
    04-09-17 06:26 AM
  21. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    With all due respect, #7 is wrong. Most of the better (read:PAID) VPN's do not log anything. Nord VPN, Express VPN, etc do not keep logs and they have been examined by many security experts - lots of hard evidence on this. As I said, Google (and others can see what website you're on but not what you are viewing. Think what the consequences would be if Google could see your bank account contents while you were doing on-line banking - they would be out of business in a heartbeat
    Https is the defining factor there. But seriously, how would Google be able to provide search results if they couldn't see the websites?
    04-09-17 06:34 AM
  22. docfreed's Avatar
    You're right about https but most VPN's do have logs and Google can see those. And many websites aren't using https yet (particularly the shady ones). Here's a simple experiment I tried with/and without my VPN on a shopping website. Without the VPN on, logged on and ordered a case for my cellphone - a little later Google served me up an ad in Chrome with a selection of cases for cellphones! When I did the same thing with the VPN turned on (I use NordVPN, one of the better ones) and ordered something different - never got a Google ad for chargers yet since the few months that I did this. The only thing Google knows is that I was on that website but they don't know what I did there.
    PS: I don't work for NordVPN - they are located in Panama
    04-09-17 06:45 AM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    You're right about https but most VPN's do have logs and Google can see those. And many websites aren't using https yet (particularly the shady ones). Here's a simple experiment I tried with/and without my VPN on a shopping website. Without the VPN on, logged on and ordered a case for my cellphone - a little later Google served me up an ad in Chrome with a selection of cases for cellphones! When I did the same thing with the VPN turned on (I use NordVPN, one of the better ones) and ordered something different - never got a Google ad for chargers yet since the few months that I did this. The only thing Google knows is that I was on that website but they don't know what I did there.
    PS: I don't work for NordVPN - they are located in Panama
    But, but, you could be in Panama too and just hiding behind NordVPN...

    Posted via CB10
    04-09-17 06:53 AM
  24. dpgo's Avatar
    IMHO even worse than the data sniffing is the location tracking.

    I really would like to be able to stop the google services when the apps that I am using don't require google services (i.e all the apps from f-droid).
    But unfortunately I cannot do it in BlackBerry 10 neither in BBAndroid.
    Sometimes in bb10 I tried uninstalling play services and installing just when I need an app which requires them, bit it was too slow, and I gave up...

    And about security based in disable unknown sources is too dangerous, too much power for google and their present or future conditions. But of course is a good option for corporative phones.


    Posted via CB10
    05-14-17 03:07 AM
  25. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    For me even worse then the sniffing is the location tracking.

    I really would like to be able to stop the google services when the apps thta I use don't require google services (i.e all the apps from f-droid).
    But unfortunately I cannot do it in BlackBerry 10 neither in BBAndroid.
    Sometimes in bb10 I tried uninstalling play services and installing just when I need an app which requires them, bit it was too slow, and I gave up...

    And about security based in disable unknown sources is too dangerous, too much power for google and their present or future conditions. But of course is a good option for corporative phones.


    Posted via CB10
    So shut them off. And if apps from the app store require permissions prior to installing, refuse the install.

    BlackBerry Android sniffing a lot?-screenshot_2017-05-14-03-14-59.jpg
    jmr1015 likes this.
    05-14-17 03:18 AM
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