07-09-13 10:05 PM
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  1. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    I think it's very important that BlackBerry does not lose its existing customer base which might be very happy and satisfied with Bold or Curve. These folks may not like new OS or Swiping up and down...
    Lot of people just don't like learning curve or buying unfamiliar stuff or don't have time for it.
    This new device would get them higher hardware specs, better camera etc.
    Thoughts?

    Posted via CB10
    07-03-13 10:15 PM
  2. Acidwire's Avatar
    imo it makes them look like they cant decide/dont have confidence in which product to stick with especially now we've seen the low numbers, i think the best case scenario is that theyve dubbed an update to the playbook as the new "OS7 Device" by giving it performance upgrades, maybe a slight design tweak without changing too much and the bbm app someone managed to adapt from BB10 and get working on their playbook, it would make playbook users happy without making the upgrade sound like it will get full bb10 functionality (by naming it bb7 even though it wont be exactly but you get my point) whilst letting them focus bb10 on the phones only
    web99 and NYC10065 like this.
    07-03-13 10:22 PM
  3. diegonei's Avatar
    Valid argument. Most just reject change even if it's change for the better.

    I just hope that trying to please everybody, BlackBerry doesn't end up shooting it's own foot.

    It has happened....

    imo it makes them look like they cant decide/dont have confidence in which product to stick with especially now we've seen the low numbers, i think the best case scenario is that theyve dubbed an update to the playbook as the new "OS7 Device" by giving it performance upgrades, maybe a slight design tweak without changing too much and the bbm app someone managed to adapt from BB10 and get working on their playbook, it would make playbook users happy without making the upgrade sound like it will get full bb10 functionality (by naming it bb7 even though it wont be exactly but you get my point) whilst letting them focus bb10 on the phones only
    Another valid point. One that BlackBerry could mitigate with a proper statement on why they are doing this.

    Which... Well, they forgot to.
    07-03-13 10:24 PM
  4. howarmat's Avatar
    sure it might be a good thing but its a horrible thing to announce on a conference call when you just told you shareholders that your new shiny bb10 isnt selling well.
    07-03-13 10:36 PM
  5. sinsin07's Avatar
    sure it might be a good thing but its a horrible thing to announce on a conference call when you just told you shareholders that your new shiny bb10 isnt selling well.
    Correct. This should of been a silent launch, with just the tech blogs picking up on it. Thor's choice of a venue shows a serious lack of judgement along with all those who advise him.

    If he was going to whip out any surprises it should have been the A10 with something rather novel for Blackberry, like "on sale today".

    Whipping out another BB07 device smells like desperation.

    Why do they even have people working on BB07 in the first place. All hands should be on the latest devices. What a waste of resources.
    jegs2 likes this.
    07-03-13 10:42 PM
  6. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Repeat :

    This BBOS phone is destined for markets where they have Blackberry data plans for BBOS devices, where BBM is important and where they do not have extensive fast networks. This phone has a place and will sell and keep BB users in the fold. Who cares? would you rather they gave up any market for BBOS phones and forsake 60% of their unit sales ( if not revenue).

    For BelfastDispatcher and all those who need BIS, I think that there should be a BB10-BIS communicator model. Basically a Q5 running BB10 with BIS email services (no trackpad though to save $$). I think this hone would be big with medium sized businesses that are too small for a BES solution.

    http://goodereader.com/blog/tablet-s...-z10-adoption/
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 07-03-13 at 11:10 PM.
    kevinnugent and SDTRMG like this.
    07-03-13 10:56 PM
  7. BBThemes's Avatar
    so lets be clear, they told everyone they had a new OS, lag is gone, no more spinning black clock etc, then they produce another BBOS phone which will do the same thing (its an OS limitation so we were told remember). now both you and I know theres a difference, but to the average person on the street, they bought a brand new out BB and it had the spinning black clock and froze.

    I can see how keeping some die hard customers could be construed as a good move, but not at the sacrifice of making your OS still look dated.
    web99 likes this.
    07-03-13 11:10 PM
  8. trsbbs's Avatar
    Amazing how Apple can sell only one phone and make tons of money while BlackBerry can't do it with multiple phones and operating systems.

    Let see, maybe Ford should issue an update for the 69 mustang.

    Using a BlackBerry Z10
    07-03-13 11:14 PM
  9. Sam Turdo's Avatar
    I think it's very important that BlackBerry does not lose its existing customer base which might be very happy and satisfied with Bold or Curve. These folks may not like new OS or Swiping up and down...
    Lot of people just don't like learning curve or buying unfamiliar stuff or don't have time for it.
    This new device would get them higher hardware specs, better camera etc.
    Thoughts?

    Posted via CB10
    i completely agree, id like to see the bold stick around. after all, its always a bad move to discontinue your flagship device.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9350 using Tapatalk
    07-03-13 11:23 PM
  10. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Let's forget what's good for company for a second and let's concentrate on the user that still needs/wants a Legacy device for whatever reason., most of those users have had an OS7 or even OS6 device for two years now and they're ready to upgrade. They did not upgrade to BB10 or some did and quickly ran back to their old device.

    Give these people something to update to.
    LudwigvonKast and h20work like this.
    07-04-13 03:14 AM
  11. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    When CDs displaced vinyl records, did Sony produce new record players? Yes for a while, but they surely didn't expect record player sales to increase. Same thing is going on now with MP3 replacing CDs, and I don't really see Sony expecting to sell more CD players anytime soon.

    BBOS had it's day, and sure, there is a segment of the smartphone buying public that still loves BBOS. Does that mean it's a growth area? I hope nobody thinks that's the case. Can BBRY survive depending on BBOS as their main revenue and profit stream? I doubt it for two reasons. The first is that the bulk of BBOS devices sold now are low end devices costing less than $200 where profit margins are very thin. They don't have any competitive advantage in making the phones, so it's difficult for them to be profitable in the low end.

    The second is that competition in the low end smartphone market is now extremely tight. 3 years ago, sub-$200 Android phones were virtually non-existent and the ones that did exist were crappy. Now there's hundreds of models to choose from and they're getting better every day. As previous generation hardware drops in price, they drop into those low end Android phones. 3 years ago a previous generation SOC was 400Mhz with 128MB of RAM. Now, it's a 1.2Ghz dual core with 512MB. That's not a bad phone and performance isn't that far off from a high end model. 3 years ago, BBOS didn't really have competition in the low end smartphone market except some Symbian models. Now, it's not that simple.
    07-04-13 03:39 AM
  12. Raestloz's Avatar
    Let's forget what's good for company for a second and let's concentrate on the user that still needs/wants a Legacy device for whatever reason., most of those users have had an OS7 or even OS6 device for two years now and they're ready to upgrade. They did not upgrade to BB10 or some did and quickly ran back to their old device.

    Give these people something to update to.
    Bold 9900 seems to be a good upgrade for those that want legacy device. I mean, let's all be honest: how do you improve BlackBerry 7 devices? Their apps were created with BlackBerry Device Software 5.0 in mind, BlackBerry 6 & 7 didn't bring many new functionalities. BlackBerry 7 also suffers from the spinning clock of death and memory management issues, both of which BlackBerry 10 was supposed to fix (and it did)

    You can't just slap dual-core into a BlackBerry 7 and expect things to get better. Well, better specs will always yield better performance, but what I'm saying is legacy devices have sub-par specs from the get go to run heavy apps, while releasing a new BlackBerry 7 device with very good specs will leave it with lots of juice and nothing to take advantage of it. The apps that DO take advantage of it will be incompatible with everything else


    BlackBerry should've focused on BlackBerry 10 and leave legacy devices on extended support phase. Releasing new BlackBerry 7 makes them look distrust BlackBerry 10.

    Perhaps BlackBerry thought that legacy environment has more apps readily available, so a new BlackBerry 7 device won't have the app gap problem, but legacy apps have severe limitations compared to their iOS and Android counterparts.

    I don't like this move, but nothing we can do about it I suppose

    STL 100-1 10.1.0.273
    07-04-13 03:47 AM
  13. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Let's forget what's good for company for a second and let's concentrate on the user that still needs/wants a Legacy device for whatever reason., most of those users have had an OS7 or even OS6 device for two years now and they're ready to upgrade. They did not upgrade to BB10 or some did and quickly ran back to their old device.

    Give these people something to update to.
    There are four types of legacy users. Ones like you that just love BBOS. The second are ones who have BlackBerries issued by their employer. The third are ones who bought into it because of peer pressure, meaning BBM. The fourth are ones that bought them because they were cheaper than alternatives.

    Of the 70+ million users, what is the projected expectation for each group? That's important. Let's look at the ones who have Blackberries issued by their companies. Is this an area of growth or one of decline? I think most would say decline because of BYOD and alternative device management solutions to BES. How about the ones that bought them for BBM? Now there are real alternatives to BBM available on any platform. Remember, in emerging markets, BBM was THE selling point for BlackBerries. Is BBM as a selling point as influential as before? If not, this is going to be an area of decline. What about the ones that bought them because they offered more "bang for the buck?" Cheap and powerful Android phones are plenty available now, and are offering serious competition to BlackBerry in regards to "bang for the buck." I'd say this is an area of decline.

    That leaves the souls who truly love BBOS. Is this a growth area? I have doubts. I suggest this group is stagnant.

    Considering the above, should a company devote more research and development (money) in developing better and greater BBOS phones? Here's an analogy. There are audiophiles who love vinyl records. Record players made today are significantly better than those made back in the 1970's. Still, is Sony devoting the bulk of their resources into making better record players? Should they? What about CD players? There was a time when Sony sold a lot of CD players. Does that mean they should invest significant resources to make better ones? The record player and the CD player had their day. BBOS had its day. The number of people who will continue to use it is shrinking, and eventually like records and CDs, it will become a niche market. That doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. There are people who still buy records. The question is whether BBRY should devote serious resources to it. MS still supports WinXP, but they no longer devote the majority of their resources to it to make it better.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-04-13 03:57 AM
  14. BB.David's Avatar
    I think many are jumping to conclusions.

    I doubt this new device will be on major carriers but most likely regional or smaller carriers that don't even carry BlackBerry 10 devices yet.
    07-04-13 04:06 AM
  15. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Historically, BlackBerry has barely been able to manage two different OS.....PB and BBOS....now we expect them to manage four????? Legacy, PB, BB10, and "souped up" legacy?????

    Any R&D efforts should be spent on the OS that was deemed to be the company's saviour two years ago....remember that???? Everyone thought QNX was the saviour of humanity, everyone LOVED the idea. So now, because erosion has proved to be even more significant than anyone anticipated, this company that could up until now barely manage two OS is throwing time, energy and money into further development of the very OS that dragged it into the ground......

    I support BlackBerry's BB10 efforts and I will buy the Aristo. But I am so happy that I have learned my way around the other two platforms. Because frankly, to spend any effort on a "souped up" legacy device is effort spent away from BB10 and BlackBerry has proven that it CANNOT manage multiple OS and as such I feel that it is absolutely misguided.
    07-04-13 07:42 AM
  16. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Valid argument. Most just reject change even if it's change for the better.
    Not really, or we'd still be using VHS players or to go back even further, horse drawn carriages. Most people actually accept technological advancement, if it is indeed an advancement.
    07-04-13 08:06 AM
  17. unbreakablej's Avatar
    My sister for one is holding out for this new OS 7 device as she wants the buttons. There is still a market for this!

    Posted via CB10
    07-04-13 08:13 AM
  18. monil11's Avatar
    I think the reasons behind this is simple.

    1. Buying time till the following happens
    2. They cannot reach a low enough price point with BB10 phones yet and therefore another BB0S7 device. They do not want to lose out on their customers who love the curve lineup. Also many businesses issued the curve devices to their lower level employees. Right now even the Q5 seems slightly expensive. Till they can reach a lower price point with BB10 devices they need a filler phone.
    3. Many hardcore users of BB0S7 are not early adopters. However they love their current phone HARDWARE and some aspects of the software which arent present in BB10. These people feel no trackpad + 4 dedicated buttons is just not worth the risk. But most of those people have a device which is quite old and will need to change their phone soon. Therefore BB rather make a BB0S7 phone than just losing these customers. By the time their next upgrade is due, many of the features legacy OS7 users currently miss will be available on BB10.
    4. Maybe they want a two OS strategy. Similar to what Nokia does with WP and Asha. I dont think this is a good idea for BB at all in the long run but it could work for the next 1 year.
    ekv likes this.
    07-04-13 08:14 AM
  19. monil11's Avatar
    Not really, or we'd still be using VHS players or to go back even further, horse drawn carriages. Most people actually accept technological advancement, if it is indeed an advancement.
    Not a fair comparison really. I think VHS to VCD had no apparent drawbacks or missing features plus there was better quality involved. Horse drawn carriages???? Thats wrong in so many different ways. Horses are limited, cars are faster, and more advanced in each and every way. Besides those changes had a lot to do with radical advancements where as BB10, however new it may be is not 'Radical' (it wont make you breakfast). You wont find too many dail up users resisting high speed internet (other than because of price of course) as the advantages are significant, clear and involve no apparent draw backs. BB0S7 to BB10 has apparent draw backs such as lack of BIS, lack of cheaper smartphones and the 4 missing buttons + trackpad along with all the small OS level features.

    Some are genuine concerns where as others are just not. But overall the experience does improve in BB10. Therefore coming to the conclusion that people are reluctant to change.
    ekv likes this.
    07-04-13 08:29 AM
  20. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    I must've missed where they said this BB7 device is even going to be seen anywhere else but third world or "emerging" markets. I don't see why its a problem for BlackBerry to devise a device for markets where they are certain that people won't be able to afford or otherwise carry BB10 devices. I really can't see how this is equitable to bad press for the company when anywhere tech press is relevant shouldn't have this device right? How else do you translate "emerging markets"?
    07-04-13 08:29 AM
  21. BBThemes's Avatar
    How else do you translate "emerging markets"?
    Well thorsten said the Q5 was for emerging markets then put it on sale in the UK.

    Posted via CB10
    h20work likes this.
    07-04-13 08:40 AM
  22. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Not a fair comparison really. I think VHS to VCD had no apparent drawbacks or missing features plus there was better quality involved. Horse drawn carriages???? Thats wrong in so many different ways. Horses are limited, cars are faster, and more advanced in each and every way. Besides those changes had a lot to do with radical advancements where as BB10, however new it may be is not 'Radical' (it wont make you breakfast). You wont find too many dail up users resisting high speed internet (other than because of price of course) as the advantages are significant, clear and involve no apparent draw backs. BB0S7 to BB10 has apparent draw backs such as lack of BIS, lack of cheaper smartphones and the 4 missing buttons + trackpad along with all the small OS level features.
    .
    Yes horse drawn carriages. BBOS is limited, BB10 is faster and more advance in each and every way. BB10 is an advance over BBOS like iOS is an advance of BBOS. It's a radical advancement, and people have accepted it as such. The problem for BB10 is that it's not a radical advancement over iOS or Android. Sure BBOS still sells, and you still see the occasional horse drawn carriage in Pennsylvania Dutch country or even the streets of New York, but cars are still the way to go for most.

    All advancements have drawbacks especially when initially introduced. Cars need gas, horse drawn carriages do not. When initially introduced, DVD couldn't record like VHS. CDs were fragile compared to cassette tapes. iPhone had crappy batter life. Price is actually a very major factor in technology acceptance. T1 lines were available way before DSL and Cable internet became the norm for broadband, and back then it cost almost $1000 per month. Microwave ovens used to cost $1500. CD players used to cost $500 compared to $100 for a record player. Flat TVs used to cost $5000. It's when a tech captures the imagination of the public, and economies of scale allow for significant price reductions that a tech becomes a mass product.
    07-04-13 08:50 AM
  23. njblackberry's Avatar
    When the unfortunate layoffs began a few months ago, someone posted that the Java programmers (BBOS7) were being released.
    Because the emphasis was going to be on the upcoming BB10 (phones and PB).
    Since the PB is now orphaned and a new BBOS7 device is rumored, do they hire programmers back?

    Just sounds desperate.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-04-13 08:53 AM
  24. Bbnivende's Avatar
    My sister for one is holding out for this new OS 7 device as she wants the buttons. There is still a market for this!

    Posted via CB10
    There is no reason to suggest that this device will be better than or even equivalent to the current top of the Bold or Curve lines. Unless your sister lives in a market like Nigeria it is unlikely that BB will be selling this device to your sister.
    edit:
    New article (Well maybe not new) :
    http://dailygadget.org/first-details...med-samoa/html.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 07-04-13 at 11:12 AM.
    07-04-13 10:17 AM
  25. CHIP72's Avatar
    I think it's very important that BlackBerry does not lose its existing customer base which might be very happy and satisfied with Bold or Curve. These folks may not like new OS or Swiping up and down...
    Lot of people just don't like learning curve or buying unfamiliar stuff or don't have time for it.
    This new device would get them higher hardware specs, better camera etc.
    Thoughts?

    Posted via CB10
    Hasn't this (the part bolded above) already happened to a large degree? Isn't this part of the reason why BB10 was created in the first place?
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    07-04-13 12:03 PM
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