1. John Yester's Avatar
    VZ Navigator is scheduled to be available on 11/8. As long as there are no last minute changes or setbacks between now and the release date.

    Go to you web browser is showing it coming soon.


    Also has been confirmed with verizon rep that I know very well.

    Not sure if it's included in data package or separate charge, it is not known yet sorry
    10-19-07 11:32 PM
  2. wcurrin's Avatar
    thats the same day as the pearl release, makes sense...just crossing my finger for begin included in the data package...
    10-20-07 10:09 AM
  3. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    I'll bet that it's not included. If it's not, I'd like to suggest everyone not buy into the software/service. It'll show VZW that we want out autonomous GPS unlocked.
    10-20-07 10:31 AM
  4. berrywhite's Avatar
    I agree with Civic however it really wont accomplish anything since if no VZW BB users subscribe VZW doesnt lose anything! They would lose more money if they unlocked the GPS.
    10-20-07 10:36 AM
  5. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    They loose return on development costs for the program and also the money would have seen from proposed income from this program. Trust me, they will loose money. It won't happen over night, but then again when you do things like this "in numbers" you won't accomplish things overnight. The drive must be behind everyone and everyone has to hold out enough. ****, there's no GPS now so what difference would it make. VZNavigator doesn't hold a candle to programs like InfoSpace and such and it won't work when you're out of the country which pretty much makes the idea of a "World Phone" useless depending on your interpretation of the wording. If they left the autonomouse gps alone you could use mapping apps for Europe and other countries that have map details for those regions. Since VZNavigator is aGPS (assisted GPS) it's useless.

    Besides, would you rather have VZW's network systems log where you are all the time with their assisted GPS system or would you rather have free GPS satallites give you the coordiates of your location which the phone superimposes over map data downloaded from systems that whatever app you use have. It's bad enough VZW recently wanted to sell your call data to third parties Opt Out Of New Verizon Wireless Plan To Share Your Info - dslreports.com ... now they will also sell where you are when you make these calls as well.
    Last edited by JRSCCivic98; 10-20-07 at 05:17 PM.
    10-20-07 05:11 PM
  6. ncc1701p's Avatar
    Back in the early cable modem days They would restrict your internet access to 1 PC. If you wanted another IP address you would have to Pay $5/mo. My solution was to at that time A) get a early Linksys Cable/DSL Router or B) Build my own NAT-device via Linux. So by using/building my own 3rd party Device I gave my provider the 'FINGER'. Same thing with Renting a Cable modem for $5/Month. I Purchased my OWN Cable modem for circa $70 and after 13 months it paid for itself. What I plan to do with the 'GPS issue' is buy a BlueTooth GPS Puck. I have my eye on one for $90 (Freedom Mini Keychain GPS). If I utilize my 1st time google checkout its -$15 off. And depending on what VZW charges you a month this device will pay for itself off within the year. So personally I am not too excited about VZNav as I've used other programs on my GPS Enabled 7520. I'd suggest every to do the same. Go buy one of these suckers and give VZW the 'finger'. If they decide to unlock it then great. Does anyone honestly see that happening?
    10-20-07 06:35 PM
  7. Marut9's Avatar
    Let's be serious here. Do you honestly think they are going to have it for free. You know its gonna cost like 5-10 a month which blows the big one.

    ncc1701p, for that freedome mini keychain gps, i checked it out but how do u use that in ur blackberry 8830?
    10-22-07 03:12 PM
  8. ncc1701p's Avatar
    Let's be serious here. Do you honestly think they are going to have it for free. You know its gonna cost like 5-10 a month which blows the big one.

    ncc1701p, for that freedome mini keychain gps, i checked it out but how do u use that in ur blackberry 8830?
    Well like any other BT GPS receiver.. u pair it to your 8830.. then within options / advanced options/ GPS / choose that particular GPS and when u are using whatever app it theoretically work. I don't have one YET... Im waiting till november to see what happens.. then I'll get one. I was gonna buy one of these to use with my old Treo.
    10-22-07 05:52 PM
  9. Amigo's Avatar
    I have a Holux puck. I'm giving Vzw anymore money than I half to.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-22-07 06:07 PM
  10. tomtheguitarguy's Avatar
    One of the benefits of having a BT puck is that you can place it on your dash in clear view of the sky to get optimum satellite reception (as opposed to having the BB on your lap or next to you where you might not get uninterrupted signal).

    However, a nice benefit of the internal gps is that you don't have to carry an extra piece.
    10-22-07 06:08 PM
  11. jabruno101's Avatar
    GPS and the 5 MB "Unlimited" plan is the reason I went with Sprint.
    10-22-07 07:35 PM
  12. Firefishe's Avatar
    Hello, everyone. Stephen Brown here, out of Missouri.

    I currently have a complaint with the Better Business Bureau regarding the GPS issue on the 8830. I have received one reply from Verizon Wireless, and it said something to the effect--in one part of the letter--that they had offered to replace my device with another one, and I may go this route.

    Funny thing is, I don't remember anyone offering me anything of the sort. Well, if they said they did, and will replace my device, I may just do it--just so long as I can get BlackBerry Connect or BlackBerry Built-In with it.

    Here is the letter, in its entirety, save for the phone numbers and bottom signature:

    Stephen Brown, responding to sent rebuttal from Verizon Wireless.

    If I were to accept a different device, the following conditions would
    have to be met:

    1. The device would have to be capable, at the very least, of using a
    product called BlackBerry Connect, so I could still receive BlackBerry
    Push Email Services.

    2. The device, unequivocally, would have to have a Standalone, Active,
    High-Sensitivity GPS Receiver as part of it's internal makeup.

    3. The device would have to be a PDA-style of device, similiar to the
    BlackBerry 8830, with or without touchscreen input.

    4. No features inherent to the phone may be disabled, crippled, or
    otherwise kept from being used.

    5. Any type of third party communications program must be capable of
    accessing the network, with fully functional TCP/IP capability.

    6. Some handheld operating systems to consider: Windows Mobile 6 or 5,
    Symbian S60 OS, Palm OS (maybe). Another, possibly out-of-market, CDMA
    BlackBerry or other device compatible with American CDMA networks. In
    any of these examples, said device must have the aformentioned GPS
    capability.

    7. For The Record: GPS capability does not mean Emergency 911 (E911)
    capability, as all devices are required, by law, to have this feature.
    GPS capability means an on-board, fully functional, stand-alone GPS
    Receiver Chipset, such as a SiRFStar III, MediaTek, Garmin, or other
    type of chipset normally used in a BlackBerry or other smartphone
    platform, that can be combined with a mapping solution of my choice.
    This also does not mean VZ Navigator-only (Verizon's proprietary mapping
    solution) functionality with the GPS Receiver. The GPS chipset must be
    able to be accessed by my own, personal choice of mapping solution software.

    8. Adherence to the NMEA 0183 (or equivalent) Sentence Strings for GPS
    Receivers will ensure that any mapping application can access the GPS
    Signal Information from the GPS Chipset on the SmartPhone.

    Please respond to this as soon as received.

    Thank you for a timely solution to this problem.


    A word to 8830 WE owners: This device, as has been stated elsewhere, has a fully-functional, stand-alone GPS unit, capable of Autonomous, Assisted, or Simultaneous GPS capability.

    Verizon Wireless's other, "lesser," consumer-grade phones are able to use Assisted GPS (A-GPS) just fine, and they have no complaints with any of the consumer-grade phone products using VZ Navigator, so far as security concerns go.

    Fact is, if Verizon Wireless were to route any incoming and outgoing GPS signals through the 8830 WE's crypto stack, why, might not that be a workable solution if they're so concerned about security?

    Another thought regarding Verizon Wireless's policies on our 8830 WE: CDMA technology phones have a history for using a type of Java called BREW, while the 8800 and other GSM phones are set up for J2ME (now called the Java Wireless Toolkit) Java.

    J2ME is, by far, the more open as far as development is concerned. Fact is, I have not seen a software offering for BREW that was not 100% commercial, and was set up strictly for downloading from a CDMA carrier's integrated software download catalog on the phone, itself. BREW development policies may be more closed than J2ME, which, considering Verizon Wireless's history with CDMA and BREW, may explain their apparent "security paranoia" style of allowing certain features on their network.

    I'm not supporting them on the previous statement of opinion, only clarifying why I feel this may be so.

    Note To Developers: If any of the above is incorrect regarding BREW, J2ME (Java Wireless Toolkit), or any other statements regarding the technology stated in this post, please reply with a suitable rebuttal with the corrected information, and I will acknowledge the change, after I have coroborated your statements.

    I desire accurate information in my posts, and corrections are always welcomed...PERIOD!


    Summarizing, what we need to do is take a firm stance with Verizon Wireless regarding the BlackBerry 8830 World Edition's GPS Issues.

    I have personally tested BlackBerry Maps, Google Maps, MapQuest Navigator, Navizon bundled with Google's MGMaps application, and, most recently, Beyond411 Search (formerly BB411).

    This is what I have found: Google Maps, MapQuest Navigator, MGMaps, and Beyond411 Search all recognize that the 8830 WE's GPS hardware is present--when the GPS is set to "Location On" in the Options>Advanced Options>GPS dialog.

    BBMaps does not, for some reason, recognize the 8830 WE's hardware as even being present. Interesting, considering that it, is, by definition, a RIM Application.

    I have TeleAtlas installed, but have not been able to set up the supposedly free thirty (30) day trial, so I may have to delete it. I do not give out credit card numbers to any company that purports to be at no cost to me, but does, in reality, want my card numbers on file and in a state of "always charged monthly unless you decide to cancel" status, and sets me up in a situation which I might forget.

    I have clinically diagnosed Attention Deficit Disorder, so this situation may mean more to me than some, or even most people.

    If something is free, it should be done thusly: 1. Go to the web page, 2. Fill out whatever registration form with Name, Address, City, etc. (if any at all), and 3. Download it from...(and I can not emphasize this enough!) ONE STANDARD LINK AND NO MORE!

    That said, I will summarize what I feel we need to do regarding the GPS issue:

    This matter, at his late juncture, and in light of some of the more recently surfaced "evidence" of Verizon Wireless's advertising of the GPS Enabled functionality of this device, has gone beyond a matter of security issues (which have not been substantiated by Verizon Wireless in detail but might surface in an FTC inquiry), and now has the underpinnings of outright fraud--whether known or not known being of no concern; that is how the ads came out. Patently, it is not the consumer's fault.

    GPS technology is free to use by the general public. If Verizon wants to limit the Assisted GPS (A-GPS) functionality of the 8830 WE, then that is certainly their right to do so, as the A-GPS signal is utilizing their towers for location triangulation, and is, therefore, using their network. However, what Verizon Wireless patently does not have the right to do, is disable the Autonomous GPS functionality of the 8830 WE, as GPS Radio Reception, itself, has no bearing on A-GPS.

    In short, Verizon Wireless must enable the Autonomous GPS functionality of the BlackBerry 8830 World Edition phone.

    Warm regards,
    Stephen Brown
    10-22-07 09:16 PM
  13. volsfan0911's Avatar
    I was with VZW, I have moved to ATT. This was one of the reasons why. Simple economics should speak volumes. Bottom line? FU VZW, lose enough customers and you'll do something about it
    10-22-07 10:16 PM
  14. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    .................................

    Warm regards,
    Stephen Brown
    Stephen Brown, you are my hero!!!! You go man. I couldn't have said it better myself. Hats off to your "specifically worded" response to VZW. That was nice.

    As for BREW, according to the phone info (on the handset itself) it's disabled. As for the BBMap and why it doesn't see the GPS when Location On is set in Options it's because the actual version of BBMap on the VZW load has the internal gps file (that's part of BBMap) stripped out. It's the cod file that's used to interact with the internal GPS. If you uninstall that version and load up BBMaps from the download off of RIM's site (you can get it, but have to cheat the download a little), it behaves just like the other apps you've listed... can see the internal GPS, just doens't get a response from it.

    So, with that said, I think what RIM has done to disable the GPS (yes, RIM did it under contract per VZW's request believe it or not... RIM has stated this as fact) is that they might have changed the memory range for request and resonse for the GPS chipset. I am taking a guess at this and I could be wrong, but I've seen this kind of technique used with automotive ECUs in order to get around open software solutions from being able to interface with the ECU while still alowing full programmable functionality by "licensed" companies in this market. With request/response type setups you basically make a "call" to a hex range to a chipset. The chipset then responds with the info you need. If you change this range, the chipset it still enabled (the #HELP* Send command shows GPS as enabled on the phone), but would render applications not written to address this new hex range as unable to "talk" to the GPS chipset in the phone. For other systems one could simply write a little traffic request sniffing app and run it to see what these ranges are, but unfortunatly for the ARM equiped RIM device, this will be difficult.

    Like others here, I'll wait until Nov and see where VZW goes with this. If the f*** us, then I'll probably go a different route. Until then I will continue to inform unknowing VZW customers of this devices crippling. Just tonight I ran into someone who has an 8830 and explained to them the whole GPS thing. They were very displeased, especially since they were told that GPS will be available to this phone in November by the rep that sold the phone to them and the rep made it sound like this feature was something that VZW had developed specifically for the BB devices they sell because customers wanted it... so they are saving the day. Whatever, this person I talked to was very ticked that VZW lied to them about the reality of the situation. Until I see some major changes to VZW's device crippling tactics, I will continue to inform consumers of the real truth behind the devices they sell. I feel they have the right to "full disclosure".
    10-22-07 10:38 PM
  15. Tylerd's Avatar
    Do any of you know when the next OS update will be available through Verizon or can you tell me what version and platform OS is current. Thank you in advance.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-27-07 04:03 PM
  16. Kayo327's Avatar
    I do not understand! VZW cracks so easily! Im sorry it doesn't make sense. I had the treo and switched over to the BB! I asked them what was up witht he trea software and the ntework because it was all 10x messed up. So they sent me the new phone and then it continued to have problem and then same thing with my bf treo. I called ok listen, " Its all messed up both phones with in days of switchin over to the new phone. What can you do?

    Answer: Send youout another phone.

    I said unacceptable.... so i find it odd that this email says that they are willing to switch it out with no hassel! What the heck! Thats all messed up...
    Somone explaint hat to me?
    10-28-07 01:24 AM
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