[smsilver]

Well now that I have just flown from Michigan to California I have experienced the same frustrations. Had a Treo for years, hated the crashes, looked forward to the BB, the executive traveller's ultimate PDA. So much for that. (But it handled time switches and the calendar without a problem).

Two problems: If I switch it to PDT, when my secretary back homes sees my calendar, everything has been changed and synced to PDT. If she adds a new event using my "home" time (EDT) when I return home, and put it back to EDT, it will be 3 hrs off.

Second: If I keep it in EDT while in California, the alarm will sound 3 hours earlier, since the alarm is programmed to the phone. All very confusing and not at all what I had expected out of a "mature" device.

[JRSCCivic98]

^^^ Take all of that and email it to bbsuggestions@rim.com

Let them know how poor their "business phone" handles something as simple.

[smsilver]

Who exactly do I "let know"?

[jeffh]

...Two problems: If I switch it to PDT, when my secretary back homes sees my calendar, everything has been changed and synced to PDT. If she adds a new event using my "home" time (EDT) when I return home, and put it back to EDT, it will be 3 hrs off.

Second: If I keep it in EDT while in California, the alarm will sound 3 hours earlier, since the alarm is programmed to the phone. All very confusing and not at all what I had expected out of a "mature" device.

The problem is that Outlook won't easily let your secretary enter the correct time zone. The Blackberry calendar will let you set the time zone on an appt-by-appt basis. Outlook actually supports two simultaneous time zones on the calendar, so if you routinely have meetings in EDT and PDT, you can set it for those. But there's no simple way in outlook to do it on a meeting-by-meeting basis.

If you put the correct time zone on the appt in your blackberry, the meeting times will adjust correctly as you change time zones. If I enter a meeting on my bb as 1:30 PM PDT, it will show up correctly on my outlook and bb calendars as 4:30 EDT. When I get to LA, I change the time zone on my bb to PDT and the meeting shows up as 1:30. It's really an outlook issue. Your secretary will have to do the mental time zone arithmetic when she puts the meetings in outlook. The bb will keep it straight.

Hope that makes sense...

[JRSCCivic98]

Who exactly do I "let know"?

You're kidding me right? What does the email address I posted above tell you? Hummm, bbsuggestions (Blackberry Suggestions) @ rim.com (Research In Motion) the maker of the Blackberry. How much clearer can it be man? You will not get a response, but RIM reviews all emails that come to that email address. Post complaints or suggestions for their services or products. Just send an email... copy and paste your post if you must, they'll get the point.

[smsilver]

I sent it off. I didn't see the e-mail address at first because I mentally ignored comments that followed the three carrots, thinking that it was from a previous e-mail. I don't have any illusions of a fix.

I appreciate the advice of entering each item with the correct time zone. However, I have 2 secretaries at 2 different sites, and one may not know that I am in a particular time zone at any specific time. So the mental calculation thing is problematic.

The Treo was basically a dumb product when it came to time zones. The correct time would appear (just as any standard cell phone). If I had a meeting at 9 AM PDT, and placed this item at 9 AM when I was in EDT, it didn't matter. When I got to California, there it was, 9 AM, and off I would go. The Treo didn't know any better. The BB is over-engineered as far as this goes, and that's where the problem lies.

[FF22]

smsilver:

"The Treo was basically a dumb product when it came to time zones. The correct time would appear (just as any standard cell phone). If I had a meeting at 9 AM PDT, and placed this item at 9 AM when I was in EDT, it didn't matter. When I got to California, there it was, 9 AM, and off I would go. The Treo didn't know any better. The BB is over-engineered as far as this goes, and that's where the problem lies."

I fully agree. I should not have to figure out what timezone I'm going to to set an appt. I may not even know if I'm on the phone with someone. For instance, is Indiana, all of it, now in one or two timezones? I have no idea what's what in South America. But I do know that something is scheduled for 9am or 1pm. I get THERE, wherever there is, and the "phone" should adjust to network time and go from there.

I doubt that anyone can convince Rim that their STANDARD is weird to the extreme.

[jsanders]

AND on the other hand, I prefer it the way it is, because of all the reasons several of you have explained. I don't want to be driving through Indiabanana and have the BB bopping back and forth between timezones, same with several other states that either have split TZs or don't observe it all.

It's been said before, set your appointments on your BB and Outlook for the TZ in which it occurs.

Here's a good guide: Why doesn't my time update correctly when I change Time Zones? - BlackBerryFAQ

At least, RIM could offer the option to let it change automatically. But then I am betting there would 10x the number of posts here with users fuming they missed their meeting because the calendar alert missed their meeting because it change the TZ automatically and the appointment was set to the OLD timezone.

My opinion.

[JRSCCivic98]

^^^^ So you think it should be standard practice for every person in the world to start thinking about time zones when putting in appointments in Outlook? Something tells me that's the last thing that's on their checklist of things to check when entering an appointment in Outlook.

The Blackberry is (to my knowledge) the only smartphone that does timezone switching the manual way. I guess it's a Canadian thing....

[jsanders]

^^^^ So you think it should be standard practice for every person in the world to start thinking about time zones

duh, yea.

Well, those that don't use a BlackBerry shouldn't have any care. But those using it and Outlook should know the features gained by entering your Appointments in the correct format, and in this case, the correct time zone in which it will be held.

Mercy---!!!! You would sit in London, and enter an appointment for the next week in Bugtussle, Arkansas, and NOT think, "wait a miniute, I need to make sure this IS in Arkansas time, B E C A U S E, (cue dramatic music), I will be in Arkansas that day. How should I enter this to make sure I don't miss it?"

[JRSCCivic98]

Mercy---!!!! You would sit in London, and enter an appointment for the next week in Bugtussle, Arkansas, and NOT think, "wait a miniute, I need to make sure this IS in Arkansas time, B E C A U S E, (cue dramatic music), I will be in Arkansas that day. How should I enter this to make sure I don't miss it?"

Yes, because everyone knows how many hours exactly they need to add or deduct from GMT or for that matter know where the time zones change geographically. The average American probably can't even tell you where Arkansas is, let alone the time zone it's in.

I used to have a simple Samsung phone which would sync time with network time based on tower location and it's time zone. That same phone had a basic calendar in it with appointments. Not once was it ever wrong and I always entered appointments in at the time I was supposed to be somewhere. Guess what, with the time changing correctly to match whatever time zone all I had to worry about was that the entered appointment was at the exact time I was asked to enter.... not to bust out my global time zone map to figure out GMT differences.

Face it, if the time would properly sync with the network on a BB no one would have to worry about any of this, including your assistant who just entered 10am for a meeting in London, but forgot to calculate the time zone difference or for that matter, went ahead and did that, but you forgot to change your time zone on the BB when you got there.... and you missed the meeting.

While internationally traveled business execs and their assistants are keen on dealing with a "global" time scale, your average consumer's not going to think of that right off.... and it's evident as much because this question always gets asked by people who come from other smartphones that don't make such a big deal out of time zone/network sync preferences. Those smartphones simply "just work". Since RIM's BB devices are starting to become more and more used by "non-business" types each year, it's important for them to make changes to their "old ways" to keep up with the times. We live in a world now that we expect the devices we use to simply be smart enough to mimic "thinking by themselves", but for that to happen, the logic built into them must come from a company that can take the blinders off once in a while.

Let me give you an example of leaving the blinders on.... The Pearl trackball in all 8k series phones are made from a "dirt attracting" platic polymer. Do you think that was a smart move to make? ID-10-T move of the year.

[jsanders]

Oh, I failed to recall that this was you and that you would be judging your entire life experiences by some POS samsung.

It just doesn't work that way. And you refuse to just make it work for you, rather you allow it to work against you.

My assistant won't have to calculate the TZ difference, it is obvious when it is set. I won't forget to change my Time Zone when I get there, because I can tell time, and I will know that when I look at my BB at 9 AM GMT, if it tells me it is 3 AM and it is not pitch black, most of us will have the sense to change the TZ on the BB at that point.

I can't speak for you however.

[jc34]

I have been watching thread and I for the life of me can not figure out what the problem is. Change the time zone on the phone to match where you are located. If you are flying they always tell you what time zone you are in (at least most of the time). If your driving you should have sense enough to know where you are at. There are signs on the interstate when you cross time zones.

When I travel, I handle entering my own calendar entries and never call anyone to do it for me. Why waste the minutes. In the Blackberry calendar you have the ability to set the time zone for the meeting. So if someone calls you from Chicago and your in New York (phone set to Eastern Time) entering the appointment to the time it is for but set the time zone to Central for their meeting time.

I think this is all pretty strait forward myself.

[jeffh]

...

I appreciate the advice of entering each item with the correct time zone. However, I have 2 secretaries at 2 different sites, and one may not know that I am in a particular time zone at any specific time. So the mental calculation thing is problematic...

No, your secretary doesn't have to know what time zone you are in at any given time. She/he just has to put in the meeting with the correct time zone for the meeting location. That's trivial to do with a bb. It does take time zone arithmetic with outlook. So give your secretaries bb's and let them enter the appt with those! If Outlook just asked for the TZ of the meeting, it'd be no problem. Since I'm in two time zones so frequently, I'm accustomed to confirming, "that's 3:00 Central?"

[smsilver]

I don't have the luxury of just being in 2 or 3 time zones, and my employer uses groupwise rather than Outlook, further complicating things. As I mentioned previously, when I am in a different time zone and change it on the BB , my entire calendar changes times. Not all my secretaries know what time zone i am in every moment, so they will place an 8:00 meeting in at 8:00 rather than figure out the difference in Rome. I will just keep everything in ET, and live with it. I am enjoying the stability, the instant e-mails, and the perfect will come someday, just not now. The end.

[jeffh]

I don't have the luxury of just being in 2 or 3 time zones, and my employer uses groupwise rather than Outlook, further complicating things. As I mentioned previously, when I am in a different time zone and change it on the BB , my entire calendar changes times. Not all my secretaries know what time zone i am in every moment, so they will place an 8:00 meeting in at 8:00 rather than figure out the difference in Rome. I will just keep everything in ET, and live with it. I am enjoying the stability, the instant e-mails, and the perfect will come someday, just not now. The end.

I know nothing of groupwise, so can't comment on that. But one more time, since we're talking past each other: your secretary does not have to know what time zone you are in at any time. If he/she is booking a meeting for you at 8:00 am in Rome, he/she simply has to enter the meeting time on a blackberry as 8:00 am and select the Rome time zone! Then when YOU change your bb to Rome time, you will see an 8:00 am meeting. It really is that simple.

[smsilver]

She doesn't have a Blackberry. The standard system is our Novell Groupwise e-mail and calendar system, in conjuction with an enterprise meeting maker.

[JRSCCivic98]

I can't speak for you however.

Of course you can't and I would never allow you to.

With all your "self proclaimed" expertise in doing things manually in your last post.... wouldn't it simply be better to have it done automatically for you in an intelligent way?

Remember this... it's not that the issue is one of complexity or rather comfort, but one of trying to devise a way of having the technology behave in such a way so that you can take away the chance of human error playing a part in the mistakes generated by said technology. Unfortunatly the laughable irony here is that the human mistake of not having forthought on how such a simple thing would impact people's schedule would in fact be the cause behind the mistake made by said technology.

The developers at RIM don't take the time to think stuff out of how a product or application "could" cause problems. In all actuality, most companies do this for a big reason. They can create inferior products which they can later reengineer for improvement in an effort to generate inexplicable amounts of income by simply fooling consumers into thinking they are making something better, when in fact they could have made the product "perfect" from the beginning, but done away with the chance of capital gains from product advancement. Or perhaps they really are just non-intelligent and there is no underlying drive to make inferior products. Perhaps I am giving them too much credit. You decide.

[jeffh]

She doesn't have a Blackberry. The standard system is our Novell Groupwise e-mail and calendar system, in conjuction with an enterprise meeting maker.

I understand that providing all your secretaries with bb's, just to simplify your calendaring, might not be a practical solution. And as I said, I'm not familiar with Groupwise or your enterprise meeting maker. Does either product allow you to select time zone on a meeting-by-meeting basis? Is that something your IT department could enable? If it's just you affected, that's one thing, but if you've got a whole company going to meetings all over the country and around the world, I'd think it'd be worth investigating. Surely somebody has done it. There has to be a better way. And I apologize for yelling in my earlier post. Good luck with a solution.

[jsanders]

With all your "self proclaimed" expertise in doing things manually in your last post.... wouldn't it simply be better to have it done automatically for you in an intelligent way?

Really, will you just get over it, already?

When used correctly and as intended, it really does work smoothly and seamlessly.

[FF22]

I have been watching thread and I for the life of me can not figure out what the problem is. Change the time zone on the phone to match where you are located. If you are flying they always tell you what time zone you are in (at least most of the time). If your driving you should have sense enough to know where you are at. There are signs on the interstate when you cross time zones.

When I travel, I handle entering my own calendar entries and never call anyone to do it for me. Why waste the minutes. In the Blackberry calendar you have the ability to set the time zone for the meeting. So if someone calls you from Chicago and your in New York (phone set to Eastern Time) entering the appointment to the time it is for but set the time zone to Central for their meeting time.

I think this is all pretty strait forward myself.

But as was mentioned above - I may not know (and actually don't know) what time zone Arkansas (I know we had a Pres from there!) is in? So while I can easily set an appt for 2:30pm and not deal with the timezone issue and just expect the phone to NETWORK-TIME itself when I arrived (and Yes, I probably would check myself) the appt would have been still at 2:30pm and I would not have to deal with setting yet another option when scheduling an appt.

But you know - give me the option and we can all be happy.

[jc34]

But as was mentioned above - I may not know (and actually don't know) what time zone Arkansas (I know we had a Pres from there!) is in? So while I can easily set an appt for 2:30pm and not deal with the timezone issue and just expect the phone to NETWORK-TIME itself when I arrived (and Yes, I probably would check myself) the appt would have been still at 2:30pm and I would not have to deal with setting yet another option when scheduling an appt.

But you know - give me the option and we can all be happy.

Well.... F2... I'm not going to get into an argument online over this and not looking for one. I appreciate the points you are making regarding not knowing what time zone a city is in. I just ask verbally or ask via email depending on how I get the appointment request. Nobody ever got upset when I asked.

As far as giving options everyone would be pleased with and/or want. You'd probably turn a $550 MSRP phone into around a $900-$1000 MSRP phone with all the r&d/hardware/software costs associated with that. That would cause a lot of folks (businesses also) to not buy it that typically would have. Frankly, it was a stretch for me. If it was a $900 phone I would probably have passed.

[smsilver]

I really thank the group for the rapid posting of their thoughtful and helpful discussions. I've learned a lot about my new BB. Let's see what I can do with all of this info.

[latina berry]

Welcome Newbie to CB.

[jsanders]

smsilver, it really is a workable solution that has been posted for you as recommended. It just works. And you may choose to do it in another manner.

The unfortunate matter is the threads like this seem to go south with users ******** out over the issue and getting so emotional over their imagined RIM ineptness, and refusing to be helpful to someone in your situation trying to learn.

Good luck with it.