[Go Blue]

My 8830 (Sprint) consistently runs low on memory (details to follow), and much much lower than my 8800 (AT&T). Got a little frustrated when it finally dumped my email and SMS and call log the other day, so got me to looking more closely at the comparison.

This table did not format very well upon preview, but here goes:

...........................8830 vs 8800
File Free.... 14,535,519 vs 26,545,472
File Total... 47,841,280 vs 63,438,848
Database Sizes
Total............... 946.5k vs 4,768.0k
Messages... 164/160.4k vs 2808/3648.0k
OS............. v4.2.2.176 vs v4.2.1.79

Now, the 8830 is running lower on database size because all the messages were just dumped, but prior to that it had about 2100 messages and about 4,000k in message storage, very comparable to the 8800. But, you can see that as the message count builds back up the 14,000k free memory will start to erode back to the 10,000k level.

So, the question is, why is the 8830 running so much lower on memory??

Prior to the message dump, the 8830 had been running 5,000k to 11,000k free memory, the difference occurring when I did a battery pull, but it had been operating consistently in that range. Saw as low as 2,000k on a couple of occasions prior to a battery pull and reset, when it then went back to 9,000 to 11,000k.

I went through the memory optimization process on the 8830 as described in threads on the forum, and gained only about 2,000k, so it then was operating in the 7,000k to 13,000k range. (Deleted vendor file, unused themes, etc, did not delete Voice Dial as I use that.)

I deleted 2 applications that I thought might be memory hogs just for kicks, Ascendo Fitness and the entire eOffice suite, and picked up about 4,000k, so then it was operating in the 11,000k to 15,000k range for free memory (which is where it is as I write this at 14,000k), but I want these back.

Both have 9 email addresses, the 8830 are all BIS, the 8800 is 8 BIS and one BES. Both have been running about 1000 unread and 2500 total messages -- I have both set to store messages for 30 days.

Both have fairly equivalent 3rd party apps, and nothing that should be hogging excessive memory.

8830: Sprint Navigation (native), Google Sync, Google Maps, BB Maps (Native), Sprint Software Store (just haven't gotten around to deleting yet), Opera Mini, BerryQuery, deleted all themes except BB Dimension and Real World Today which I am using

8800: Weather Channel, Find It!, Telenav, VR+, LexSpell, Google Maps, ExpenseManager, OperaMini, Gmail, Viigo, GridMagic, haven't deleted any themes, etc -- all the AT&T native apps are still installed -- try to minimize my interaction with the BES patrol.

You'd think if one of these had a memory issue it would be the 8800, but it is running 10,000k to 15,000k more free memory than the 8830.

The thing that really gets me wondering is *why* the 8830 shows only 47,841,280 total vs the 63,438,848 for the 8800. Where'd that extra 16Mb go on the 8830? BB specs say both have 64Mb memory. Is there something "hiding" or holding or hogging that 16Mb on the 8830? Were some 8830's built with only 48MB free? Does the Sprint OS use that much more memory? Does the 8830 use that much more memory for some reason.

Any thoughts, clues, tips or first hand knowledge will be appreciated.

[jsanders]

On both devices, what do you have as the reserved memory? Go to Media folder > Menu > Options. Look at two lines: Device Memory Limit AND Reserved Pictures Memory.

[jeffh]

On the 8830, the device memory limit can be either 12M or 15M. If there is a reserved pictures memory setting, I can't find it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Go Blue]

Per jsanders suggestion:

On the 8830, under the "General" heading, the Device Memory Limit is set to 12Mb. The other option is 15Mb as JeffH noted. Also, as JeffH noted, there is not a reserved picture memory setting -- there is a picture heading, but no memory setting option.

On the 8800, the Device Memory Limit is set to 20Mb, and the available options are 12, 15, 20 and 25Mb. On this device there is not a pictures heading, and again no option for pictures memory setting.

[jeffh]

My Verizon 8830 has the same 47,841,280 as Go Blue's Sprint. So it appears to be carrier-independent. I had wondered.

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[brettburk]

Blue - where do you find out the # of messages and the database size? I also struggle a bit with limited memory problems with the 8830 (Verizon though) and am trying to learn where the real issues are.

Thanks.

[jeffh]

Options/Status/menu/database sizes

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[jc34]

The thing that really gets me wondering is *why* the 8830 shows only 47,841,280 total vs the 63,438,848 for the 8800. Where'd that extra 16Mb go on the 8830? BB specs say both have 64Mb memory. Is there something "hiding" or holding or hogging that 16Mb on the 8830? Were some 8830's built with only 48MB free? Does the Sprint OS use that much more memory? Does the 8830 use that much more memory for some reason.

Any thoughts, clues, tips or first hand knowledge will be appreciated.

You missed the main difference. The 8830 supports the CDMA and GSM radio bands. Probably needed the memory to support both radios.

[JRSCCivic98]

You missed the main difference. The 8830 supports the CDMA and GSM radio bands. Probably needed the memory to support both radios.

16MB just for GSM radio usage? I doubt that somehow. Anyone know what the 8130 (Pearl) memory status looks like. At least with that you'd see if it really was a CDMA/GSM(8830) vs just CDMA(8130) issue.

If it's any consolation, the 8830 firmware size is right at 16MB in size. Someone with an 8130 needs to look in their CDMA directory of the OS load and see how big the firmware file is on that.

[jeffh]

16M seems a big overhead to pay for two capabilities, only one of which you can use at a time.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Go Blue]

I clearly understand the difference in the two devices, and it makes sense that the 8830 would require some space for the additional drivers for the second radio capability.

However, those drivers and that capability would be in the device's OS, if not in hard ROM. Clearly the OS doesn't consume a portion of the stated 64Mb memory in either of the devices. In looking at the size of an OS file it is in the 75Mb to 80Mb range when it is downloaded. I'm not saying there is necessarily a bit for bit correlation in size for what is downloaded onto a PC and what gets loaded onto the device.

However, with the 8800 indicating 63,438,848 bytes, or 63.438848Mb total memory, it is my conclusion that the OS doesn't get squeezed into the 561,152 bytes remaining in the stated 64,000,000 bytes of memory that BB shows in the specs. There's no way an OS download would be 135x to 145x the size of the actual OS device transfer. I *do* know that if you sum up the sizes of all the .cod files that are listed in DM when you do an OS load is a whole lot more than 500k. I'm not sure how much compression happens in transferring those .cod files -- I'm not even sure which way the compression works -- PC >> BB or vice versa, but I *am* sure that the compression ratio is not in the 135x range. Looking at a BB backup file, they are in the 3.5Mb to 4.0Mb range for the 8800, which would appear to be backing up some 40Mb of data, so that compression ratio is maybe 10x (have no real way of knowing exactly what is and is not backed up into an .ipd file), which is a pretty high compression ratio.

So, it is my conclusion that the stated 64Mb for the device is the memory that is available to the *user*, not the total memory onboard the device in total. If that hypothesis is correct, then it leads back to my question in the original post -- what happened to the missing 16Mb of memory on the 8830. Some of that 64Mb gets used by applications embedded in the OS loads (like Sprint including Google Maps), but like JRSCCivic98 mentioned it is hard to imagine that a second radio driver would be 16Mb.

Other posts have confirmed the condition on Verizon 8830's, which would seem to rule out carrier differences as noted by JeffH. It would be *very* interesting to see if the same significant difference in available memory exists in 81xx and 83xx (if anybody has one yet) series devices as JRSCCivic98 suggested, and with enough examples it may be possible to rule out carrier differences, CDMA vs GMS differences, etc.

[jeffh]

I suspect that if the specs cite 64,000,000 bytes as the blackberry's memory, that that's just an advertising copy editor's ignorance of what 64M really is. 64M = 64 * 1024 * 1024 = 67108864. I don't know the memory architecture of the chip in the 8830, but an earlier post cited it as having a maximum address space of 64M, which would include ROM.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[jeffh]

My laptop is out of order, so I am working via WAP. Here are my Database Sizes for comparison with yours.

Total Size: 1678.1K

Address Book: 888/172.1K
Application Permissions: 81/6.0K
Attachment Data: 0/0.0K
AutoText: 51/4.1K
Browser Bookmarks: 7/1.5K
Browser Channels: 0/0.0K
Browser Data Cache: 3/5.8K
Browser Folders: 2/0.1K
Browser Messages: 0/0.0K
Browser Urls: 7/0.3K
Calendar: 659/390.8K
Categories: 20/1.5K
Content Store: 33/544.6K
Email Filters - 4278: 3/0.6K
Email Settings - 4278: 1/0.3K
Enterprise Configuration: 0/0.0K
Folders: 10/0.3K
Memos: 73/23.0K
Messages: 27/43.5K
Phone Call Logs: 144/40.8K
PIN Messages: 0/0.0K
RMS Databases: 7/412.1K
Saved Email Messages: 0/0.0K
Searches: 1/0.1K
SMS Messages: 0/0.0K
Tasks: 101/29.6K
WAP Push Messages: 0/0.0K

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[copperlab#CB]

I'm pretty sure this has to do with the CDMA radio in the 8830. I also remember reading that this may be the reason for the memory increase in the upcoming 8330. At CES people were looking at it and there was about 16MB less free space than the advertised 96.

I can't post a link. But goto boygeniusreport dot com and search for 8330 and read the article with Memory Upgrade? in it.

[broken1801]

Content Store: 33/544.6K

Can anyone tell me what is it?
what is it and how to clean it up??

[jeffh]

Follow this link to an article on the Blackberry site that tells how to clear the content store. You cannot delete it, but you can clear it if it becomes corrupted. The content store holds preloaded wallpaper and ringtones and various other items that are not stored in a profile.

BlackBerry Search Results

[Go Blue]

Found this link on Pinstack relative to the low memory issue:

http://www.blackberry.com/btsc/searc...200%2051557343

"File Total field indicates less than 64 MB of memory
Doc ID : KB13416
Last Modified : 2007-09-06
Document Type : What Is


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Environment

* BlackBerry� Desktop Software 4.2 Service Pack 2 (4.2.2)
* BlackBerry smartphone



Details

The File Total field on the BlackBerry smartphone, found in Options > Status, indicates less than 64 MB of total memory, even though the total advertised memory is listed as 64 MB.

The File Total field in BlackBerry Desktop Software 4.2.2 reflects the total amount of memory available for BlackBerry smartphone user data. The File Total value is automatically adjusted to account for memory that is reserved for the operating system required to operate hardware. The listed value may be 4 MB, 8 MB, or 16 MB less than the advertised total memory. This is by design."

So, the article says OS v4.2.2.xxx indicates 48mb File Total memory which is consistent with what I'm seeing on my 8830 with this OS version, it does not say when the "change" was made from indicating 64mb. I had mentioned in the OP that my 8800 has OS v4.2.1.xxx and it indicates 64mb File Total memory. That may well be the reason for different memory totals.

Anyone have a later 8800 with v4.2.2.xxx that can confirm what the indicated Total File memory is?

on edit: My 8830 is now running at ~~9mb to 10mb free, and the 8800 is running at about 25mb, so there's the 16mb difference.