[freaknyea]

I have been scanning some topics on GPS capabilities of the 8830. I have noticed some people stating that the service books are the key to allowing the GPS to be uncrippled. I don't know if this is possible, but there has got to be someone out there with the uncrippled phone and they must have the service book. I have know idea how service books work and if they are tracked through verizon somehow. If the service books are the key then shouldn't we find the person with the phone that works and have them share that service book with the rest of the verizon customers?

[JRSCCivic98]

It's not a service book.

[freaknyea]

What is it, than?

[John Clark]

This has been discussed ad nauseum and there is no way to uncripple the GPS on the Verizon BB without paying for Verizon Navigator. Even after paying for Verizon Navigator the GPS will not work with any other application.

Again, there is no way around this, no hack...it's been scrutinized by many and there is no way to do it.

[freaknyea]

I somewhat believe what you are saying John Clark, but I just can't rid of the feeling that there is someone who can or knows how to do this. It is one of those... There just has to be... things. Other than Verizon.

[CrownSeven]

Again, there is no way around this, no hack...it's been scrutinized by many and there is no way to do it.

Well a quote like that makes me want to roll up my software developer sleeves and dig into this. I have faith that there IS a way. And eventually someone will find it.

[freaknyea]

Thank you Crown Seven!
This doesn't make any sense to me. How can Verizon, ultimatly, disable the hardware on my phone? Either there is a mod that needs to be done by opening the phone or it is a software hack.

I truly don't understand how they can block software or keep the hardware crippled on my device.

There has got to be a way.

[John Clark]

Blackberry's claim to fame, and the reason that businesses and government entities, including the military, is security. There is no way to break the hash codes required to hack into the software. At least, it's not been done to date. They've been able to break everything but Blackberry. All options have been exhausted...once you roll up your developer sleeves you'll be educated and will post back with the reasons. If you are a developer you'll know more than me about why. I just know it's not possible at this time.

[silver]

Do i hear a challenge?

If it was possible, it would have already been done.

[John Clark]

Exactly. Look how quick the iPhone was broken. BB's have been out far longer and still have yet to be broken.

[freaknyea]

Can someone, than, explain to me why it is possible for verizon to disable a piece of hardware in my phone?
Google maps already downloads maps for us, and that works fine. I may be wrong, but the only thing that any GPS program on a phone needs is to download maps, other than that the GPS can do everything else itself.
So, If there is GPS hardware, we only need to learn how to trick verizon into believing we are only downloading maps. The signal from GPS can do the rest behind whatever Verizon is crippling...

I am not at all exactly all knowing... obviously...

More somewhat of a theory than anything...

but, it should be able to be done.

I guess I have not heard a clear and accurate reason as to why it is not possible and how verizon is disabling a piece of hardware in my phone... I have heard so many theories as to how and why, but nothing, that I feel, is the real answer, yet.

[JRSCCivic98]

aGPS on CDMA phones is handled by the gpsOne settings in the Qualcomm chipset. This is outside of the scope of the Blackberry OS or firmware. Currently that part of the radio is missing a PDE IP and Port number. All other carriers that left GPS enabled on the phone have valid carrier IPs for the PDE servers they host. Verizon handsets are the only one with missing PDEs. That being said, if we could find out what the PDE IP and Port is for Verizon is they we could put it in and see if that was simply it. One key thing to bring up is the fact that it's possible that Verizon had the LBS api changed for their handsets to require that the LBS application being used is the one that passes the PDE IP and Port. Based on the current error messages in the BB Debug Logs this is what's being reported, but this could simply be happening because a valid PDE is not set in the Qualcomm chipset. Other things to note are that you cannot use another providers PDE, and currently there are no free/open PDE servers to try and use. In order to get this going, this PDE info is really what's needed first. If even with this info in the phone the calls to the LBS api still fail, then the second reason listed above was implemented by Verizon. Currently there's some detail that in fact there is something that is changed by the phone on itself during startup that based strickly on the Carrier ID and Model Number of the phone. It's definatly something liked to GPS and it's something that changed on the Blackberry OS side. This could very easily be the LBS api change that requires an application to pass the info for the PDE rather then the phone chipset to have it already, but like I said, without the PDE IP and Port first, we can't really go any further because contrary to first thoughts all Qualcomm equipped phones have aGPS which depend upon a carrier's provided PDE.

Now, if you really want to start somewhere to try and find the PDE info in question, get your hands on the cod files for VZNavigator and try and decompile that. The info is in there, but it'll be a little hard to decompile with current methods.

[cl65ame]

What does Verizon gain by disabling your GPS? Get another provider.

[freaknyea]

I previously did use VZ Navigator on LG the V. It was the only phone, not smart, that I feel could be accessed. I was able to bluetooth the phone to my computer which no other phone could at the time. I wonder if it is possible to hack that phone and get the information from there?
If you have LG the V press menu and hit 0 and then some more zeros and you get a bunch of network settings.

I gave my V to someone, so I will have to wait until I see them again.

I have no clue if this is even close to what is necessary.

[anon(1060539)]

Verizon gains 10 bucks a month by disabling GPS. . . They will not enable it unless them start losing money because of it.

[freaknyea]

I could care less about verizon disabling my GPS and the amount of money they make. I care about them not having access to my GPS or not knowing I have access to GPS.

[BlackBerry.est08]

Verizon doesn't lose that much by disabling the GPS. I know a lot of users on this forum decided to go with Verizon because of the GPS, but like everything else, it's just an added feature. Yes it sucks that it should be free like other carriers, but it's something you can't control. There are thousands of other users out there that went with the 8830 because of what it does, and that's text/e-mail and could care less whether it came with GPS or not. Verizon knows this and hey, if you really want GPS, go with their product or get a bluetooth device, but I highly doubt that Verizon sits and worries whether or not they will lose customers if they don't have GPS. Yes convergence is a beautiful thing, but sometimes you have to pay for it. I'm not defending Verizon or anything, but a business is a business, it's there to make money; Verizon had a plan to disable GPS, only time will tell if it really bites them in the ***. (And I don't think GPS really makes/loses them money, their other services far exceeds what GPS is able to provide them)

[freaknyea]

What about the provisioning service book... anyone know anything about that. This, I hear from a VZW tech, is what says what you can and can't do on your plan/phone.

[silver]

Yes convergence is a beautiful thing, but sometimes you have to pay for it. I'm not defending Verizon or anything, but a business is a business, it's there to make money; Verizon had a plan to disable GPS, only time will tell if it really bites them in the ***.

yep. Should I start complaining why att charges 40/month for data plan when tzone is only what, 6 dollars.

[freaknyea]

Verizon states that there is an issue with security using their GPS apps or third party apps and such.

This makes absolutly no sense.

We can browse the web, we can download maps, we can run a large amount of programs including, Avvenu, Gmaps, Google Sync, Gmail, Google Talk, Yahoo Mail, Yahoo Chat, Facebook, Beamberry, Berry411, GetMobio, SkipGo, Wattpad, Opera Mini, E-mail, Transfer information via bluetooth, this list goes on...

Yet, security is an issue. We can do everything that is far more dangerous than GPS and all Verizon can come up with is protecting their Network from other apps other than VZ navigator.

Other carriers allow GPS functionality.

This is absolute BS and Verizon is just straight up lying as many of you already know.

How is this not a class action lawsuit?

What right do they have to disable my Phone capabilities because of security reasons, but we can do everthing that is involved in their "security" reasoning?

I say class action law suit...

Can anyone give me a reason why it wouldn't be?

If you state a contract issue, there has got to be ethical protection for the consumer regardless of whatever they have on their contract.

Class Action?

[camattin]

A class action suit has already been filed. Believe it has only been filed, and not even looked at by a judge yet... I specifically didn't stay with VZW because of the GPS issue, so I haven't been following the suit.

[dillyyo]

aGPS on CDMA phones is handled by the gpsOne settings in the Qualcomm chipset. This is outside of the scope of the Blackberry OS or firmware. Currently that part of the radio is missing a PDE IP and Port number. All other carriers that left GPS enabled on the phone have valid carrier IPs for the PDE servers they host. Verizon handsets are the only one with missing PDEs. That being said, if we could find out what the PDE IP and Port is for Verizon is they we could put it in and see if that was simply it. One key thing to bring up is the fact that it's possible that Verizon had the LBS api changed for their handsets to require that the LBS application being used is the one that passes the PDE IP and Port. Based on the current error messages in the BB Debug Logs this is what's being reported, but this could simply be happening because a valid PDE is not set in the Qualcomm chipset. Other things to note are that you cannot use another providers PDE, and currently there are no free/open PDE servers to try and use. In order to get this going, this PDE info is really what's needed first. If even with this info in the phone the calls to the LBS api still fail, then the second reason listed above was implemented by Verizon. Currently there's some detail that in fact there is something that is changed by the phone on itself during startup that based strickly on the Carrier ID and Model Number of the phone. It's definatly something liked to GPS and it's something that changed on the Blackberry OS side. This could very easily be the LBS api change that requires an application to pass the info for the PDE rather then the phone chipset to have it already, but like I said, without the PDE IP and Port first, we can't really go any further because contrary to first thoughts all Qualcomm equipped phones have aGPS which depend upon a carrier's provided PDE.

Now, if you really want to start somewhere to try and find the PDE info in question, get your hands on the cod files for VZNavigator and try and decompile that. The info is in there, but it'll be a little hard to decompile with current methods.

Have you ever read this paper generated by Qualcom?! Don't understand it thoroughly, but figured it might lay some insight that I am not able to discern. Just put in W+W+W instead of world wide web and take out the other + signs and replace with /

worldwideweb.3gpp2.org+Public_html+specs+S.S0110-0_v1.0_060224.pdf

[freaknyea]

On the 8830 I can switch between CDMA and GSM correct? Would it make any difference in allowing use of GPS if I was on GSM rather than CDMA?

[bigboborino]

I am an ex VZW phone tech. Vzw phones do not use GPS to use the navigator programs. They triangulate there position from three cell towers. It is based on GPS but not using the GPS Sat's that are in space. This is why your nav programs and services do not work. A simple soultion is to get a bluetooth gps unit. There are several sold out on the market that work.

[madisonjar]

I am an ex VZW phone tech. Vzw phones do not use GPS to use the navigator programs. They triangulate there position from three cell towers. It is based on GPS but not using the GPS Sat's that are in space. This is why your nav programs and services do not work. A simple soultion is to get a bluetooth gps unit. There are several sold out on the market that work.

ummm the 8830 has a gps chip in it.