11-08-18 07:39 PM
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  1. superhario's Avatar
    This is going to be a very long-winded post, some of which has already been discussed at length within these forums.

    I guess the inspiration for writing this comes from the fact I recently read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance for the third time and have been ruminating a lot on (the loss of) quality and what it means in today’s society. I’ve recently been asking myself why it bothers me so much that BB10 lost out to Android and iOS, when in many respects it was – and still is, a superior operating system. I think the answer is that society has in some ways, willingly shunned quality in favor of quantity and “newness.” It seems to me today the average consumer does not ask the question he or she used to ask, the quintessential question: how well does it work? But instead asks, what can it do that’s “new”, where new is a very relative term, as Apple continues to take from BB10 and call it innovation (timeshift, up-swipe gesture on the iPhoneX).

    I know, I know. I’m supposed to just get over it. Things change. Superior, well-designed, quality products often lose the market to their inferior counterparts and for a variety of reasons – some of them rather intangible and having nothing to do with the product itself. While the fall of Blackberry could be discussed at length, I’ll still provide my personal view on why my much loved BB10 is now in its death throes, while Android and iOS continue to chug along nicely.

    While I often blame the consumer and its mind boggling habits (mind boggling to me, at least), much of the fault lies with Blackberry. They didn’t take Steve Jobs and the iPhone seriously when it was first introduced. It didn’t light the proverbial fire under them, and as a result they were too late to the party in introducing BB10; for even thought it was the best designed operating system, the app ecosystems of Android and iOS were already in full swing while Blackberry was desperately trying to catch up by the time they introduced those ported Android apps that ran oh so poorly.

    Sure, there are still very few quality apps on Android and iOS in my opinion, still miles away from what was on Blackberry devices circa 2014. Google can’t even get a calculator app right! What, no unit converter?? And before you say, oh but there are so many calculator apps available on Android, trust me, I’ve plied through the Play Store to find a good calculator that isn’t load with adverts. Guess what? Nothing as good as the simple, functional, quality calculator app on BB10! Same with Google’s half-baked take on a Calendar, Gmail, etc, etc. But I’ll get into that later.

    The point is that it doesn’t matter to me how many. I don’t care about the options. I care about the quality of what’s there. And as is evidenced on the Play Store, you can have a thousand calculator apps, and they can all be ad-filled garbage.

    I also know that with what I look for in a phone, I am in the minority. I still use a phone for work. I still depend on it to manage emergencies and primarily be a communication tool or aid. I don’t give a flaming Charizard about chasing Pokemon. I couldn’t care less about gaming on a phone.

    The purpose of a phone has fundamentally changed from the early days of Blackberry. The mobile phone is now primarily a media consumption device rather than a productivity aid, and I’m fine with that. Pokemon to your heart’s content. Just don’t forget about little old me, sitting here asking: why can’t there still be room in the smartphone market for the business oriented – why is this niche being neglected, and neglected…bigly (sorry, couldn’t help myself)?

    While I believe the KeyOne, with its battery performance and some vastly improved Blackberry on Android software, has now actually started hitting upon that niche, and if all goes well has a chance to really corner this small section of the market, they just aren’t there yet (I don’t have much faith in this happening, they seem to have one and a half feet out of the smart phone game at this point). But why is Blackberry just not there yet? Well, the devil is in the details, and if you thought this post was going to be nothing but waxing poetic and old man nostalgia, I’m about to hit you with the deets like it’s 2011.

    First, a little background on the Blackberry devices I have owned and used:

    Z10

    Z30

    Passport (still have)

    Classic (still have)

    PRIV

    KeyOne (current daily driver)

    I’ve also had:

    Samsung S7

    Sony Xperia Z3

    IPhone 5

    Now the fun part. Explaining why Android and iOS suck, why BB10 is better, and of course, why I’m smarter than most people. Actually, the reason I’m doing this is because I hope somebody who develops software or works on mobile operating systems sees this, and starts integrating (re-integrating) some design features I’m really struggling to live without. And maybe, just maybe, starts putting a little quality back into their work.

    First, the obvious. What is a mobile phone? First and foremost it is a handheld device. So let me ask you then, Android or iOS users, (and please feel free to pull out your iPhone or S8 and play along!) why, if you try to use your phone with one hand, you are always stretching and then giving up and using two hands? Is it because (and now you can open an app – any app!), all of your settings, options nav buttons, URL bar are situated at the top of the screen and thus the top of your device? Well, “I never!,” you say. “What’s wrong with using two hands?” To which I answer, why use two when you can use one? Why get carpal tunnel when you don’t have to. And yes in the big picture of life and the world and the universe, it’s an infinitesimally small thing. A small detail of design that when you use a Blackberry on BB10, you realize is actually important, or at least makes a difference. It makes it easier to use your phone.

    On BB10, all of your options and settings could usually be accessed at the bottom of the screen, no stretching, no bringing in your other hand in. It was just there, within comfortable thumb range. The software was designed for being on a handheld, mobile device, instead of merely being ported or copied from computers, where menus and options are typically on top. See, Android and Google and iOS didn’t bother changing that, because they likely assumed that you as the consumer were too stupid to adjust to these things now being comfortably on the bottom of your phone. Whereas Blackberry said, it’s better at the bottom. And people are smart. They will adjust quickly, and realize that it just makes more sense.

    How about that lovely Google Assistant? Nice voice, funny, can sing a little. Can keep you entertained with trivia games on long family trips so that you don’t have to actually talk to your annoying offspring Jimmy about his boring middle school soccer team. All great. But one thing it still can’t do that Blackberry Assistant was capable of in, oh I don’t know, 2015? 2016? Read me my damn emails. Google Assistant won’t read me my emails. I used Blackberry Assistant all the time while driving for work to listen to my emails, and dictate a response to them, and then send said email, all without ever having to pick up my phone. It was safe, convenient, and in my job (dealing with emergencies, many of which are now communicated via email rather than phone calls) a necessity. I’m still waiting for Google to figure it out, but as they can’t even put together a decent calculator or functional auto mode (oh look! things on screen are bigger now!), I don’t have a lot of hope.

    Now lets talk about browsers! Oh we’re having fun now aren’t we? Most of you are probably using Chrome, Safari, Firefox, maybe Samsung Internet. Actually I like Samsung Internet. In fact, a lot of Samsung apps seem to incorporate old BB10 bits and pieces, almost like some people who worked on BB10 are now working for Samsung….I digress. You’re probably thinking, what could possibly be his problem with Google Chrome?

    No. Reader. Mode. I mean yes, there is a “reader mode” in beta, but it’s been in beta for years and Google obviously has no interest in making it a real feature, because if you choose to strip the ads out of web page to just read the content, you aren’t viewing the ads and thus old Google isn’t making their railroad money on you. And the beta reader mode is garbage on Chrome. Doesn’t work 90 percent of the time and is accessed via an annoying pop up at the bottom of your page. Same goes for Safari, Samsung, every browser I’ve ever used - if they have a reader mode, it either doesn’t work, or it is VERY selective on which web pages it works on (gotta have dat ad revenue babayyy$$$$).

    Blackberry didn’t have a stake in the ad game so they made a browser with a great reader mode that also happened to read aloud the web page to you if you wanted. All content. No annoying ads. No reading an article and halfway through the rest of the ads loaded and bumped you from your place in the article, causing you to throw your phone to the ground in frustration! Oh wait, you don’t do that. You accept the ads. Or you pay for ad blockers. You are probably also the kind of person who says “I don’t have anything to hide” when you learn all the different ways Google is mining your data to sell to others, thus missing the entire point that they have made one of the MOST LUCRATIVE INDUSTRIES ON EARTH by collecting YOUR data and selling it. And instead of a royalty check every month like you should be getting, you’re content to get a Pixel that will be bricked in two years and access to Chrome! Ugh, society. If you are going to make money off of me, I’d like a chunk of the change. Even if it’s only 8 bucks a year. It's the principle, people. And web pages, like hockey arenas and downtown common areas, are only getting uglier and more ad filled.

    I’ve actually remedied the problem on KeyOne with Keyboard Browser, which is almost a straight port of the BB10 browser minus the private browsing. But it has an extremely reliable reader mode. Can’t recommend it enough and if this guy (Alain Grainger?) could do it, why didn’t Blackberry? It should come stock on all Blackberry phones.

    Even just navigating BB10 with gestures (one move to get access to all of your messages and notifications) through peek and flow was better than anything that exists right now. And the look, that simple white on black design, just cannot be beat by anything Google or Apple have going, including Google’s fresh new material redesign. Not to mention, BB10 was smoother – no stutter, no lag, very much unlike Android Nougat Oreo Peanut Butter Barfait Whatever.

    Moving on to Blackberry Blend. Something that was so simple, yet so useful. Wirelessly tether your phone to your computer and have access to your texts, emails, calendar, messages, files, etc. on your computer screen without having to keep picking up your phone. I used this at work all the time. You could talk to your buddy about fantasy hockey and people just thought you were typing an important work email. Just kidding I never did that….yes I did. But seriously, it was a nicer interface than the version of Outlook my employer was using. Granted, it wasn’t as fully functional but it was all I needed. Anything like that on iOS? I honestly don’t know, I’m really asking. Because it’s not on Android. As Samsung farts around with an overly complicated DEX, and Samsung Sidesync resorts to a laggy emulation of your phone screen onto your computer, good old Blend is an unsupported and forgotten relic. Among myself and my Blackberry friends – ok, one Blackberry friend (but we are BEST friends) – this is probably the feature we are missing most. And it really was a perfect example of how Blackberry gave you what you needed; nothing more, nothing less. It was software that I just couldn’t find anything to complain about with. And as you can likely already see, that’s actually a very difficult accomplishment.

    And what about file management? Yes I realize Blackberry has a stock files app on Android now, and it’s decent. But my Apple loving nephew is going on about Apple now having a file manager like its some brand new idea. Listen here kid, gramps is gonna give it to you straight, we actually had that back in MY day.

    Meanwhile Android backers say, hey there are tons of file managers available. Yeah sure. And they are all full of ads, or you have to pay for them. So you buy a $800 phone and now you need to pay to have access to your own files. Again, you’re missing the point. It’s akin to buying a brand new car but if you want to get under the hood you have to take it to a 3rd party mechanic and pay him to unlock it. BB10 always had great, easy, simple, intuitive file management. Can’t be said for the others.

    Blackberry still has the best virtual keyboard in the biz. While all those other keyboards can only ever give you three predictions at one time, Blackberry can offer you many more. And they have the best prediction I’ve ever seen, literally taking the words out of my mouth when I’m composing work related emails, in that banal, there’s no way you can misinterpret THIS one Sally, email tone.

    Anyway, this post has become longer than most of my University essays. Rest assured I could go on and on about all of the different ways BB10 was better.

    Speaking of University, you know what was great? Opening a document on a BBM video chat and then seamlessly switching to sharing your screen, so you and your study group could comment on how the Powerpoint was coming along. No laptop or computer needed. And then when it came time to view the presentation on the big screen or share it, MIRACAST. Or DLNA. Or NFC. Alas, I can’t find a mobile app that does that (screen sharing within a video call) anymore. At least since the last time I checked. But in a few years Skype mobile or Facetime will come up with it and tout it as a brand new, super innovative feature!!! You just watch. And all of us Blackberry people will be bringing up the latest “I’m confused” meme and laughing amongst each other like schoolgirls at a slumber party.

    And now, as I’m losing some major steam on writing this, I would like to switch over to some constructive criticism and mention some things that I would like Blackberry to incorporate on Android to improve the user experience. Sadly, most of it is just asking them to do what they used to do. And I get it, Android is a different platform. It requires different programming and development and it doesn’t happen overnight, but I’m patient. It requires money and resources and investment in an area the company doesn’t seem to have interest in investing in these days. But if they make a few of these moves, they will continue to have a customer who writes 3000 word posts glorifying them as the upper echelon of the smartphone world, and waves his KeyOne in strangers’ faces until they ask him, “hey what kind of phone is that?”

    I admit, my facts may not be completely straight here. And I can’t be aware of every app in existence so please enlighten me if I’m missing something or have been inaccurate. And yes, I think about my phone too much. I use it way more than I should. But that only means I probably have a couple of points here worth noting.

    Also, I realize I’ve done a lot of iOS and Android bashing; but I don’t want them to crash and burn. My wife uses an iPhone, it just suits her needs and I don’t bust her balls about it. Personally, I use some Android apps frequently and that’s the reason I’m on the KeyOne and not my Passport. I’m just trying to say that we lost a lot when we lost BB10, and we need to get it back. So if anyone at Blackberry is listening, here’s how you can revive a bit of that BB10 magic on Android:

    Bring back Blend. No tweaks needed. Just like she was.

    Launcher – put the “clear all” at the bottom of the screen.

    Do your own take on Android pie gestures, because Google is botching it. Another example of how they patronize people is the ugly little pill button on the screen. If they made the gestures as intuitive as they were on BB10, you wouldn't need an on-screen pill and back button.

    Hub

    move attachments and options to bottom of screen or make keyboard shortcuts for attachments and options. Many apps have already migrated these to the bottom of the screen in preparation for Android Pie.

    Give more options on a swipe right on email (Snooze, Mark Read, File, etc.) Samsung email does a good job of this, but otherwise does not compare to Hub in functionality.

    BBM notifications (of all things, guys!) are not well integrated into the Hub or integrated at all into the Productivity Tab (which should have been called the Peek Tab, if you wanted to hit us BB fanboys in the feels.

    I’d also like to be able to send an email directly to Tasks/make a task out of it with one touch, kind of like how you used to be able to do it on BB10 with the Remember app. In fact, just bring back Remember. It was perfect.

    Calendar

    Local calendar needed

    Integrated tasks as on BB10

    BBM – not your problem anymore I guess, but I sure do miss the way it was. Especially that screen sharing option.

    If you’ve read this to the end, thank you. If you skipped to the end, it’s ok. I forgive you. You probably have Pokemon to catch.
    10-25-18 08:18 PM
  2. z10Jobe's Avatar
    Well you may have set a record for longest post on here, but it was a good one, educational and accurate.

    Was hoping Charmander was going to be discussed, however, but I guess one can't catch 'em all.
    Q10SQN100-1/10.3.3.3216

    Posted via CB10
    10-27-18 06:00 PM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Well, you were right about one thing: it's all been discussed before.

    No one denies that there are a group of people who like, want, and prefer the "old way" which includes features and designs specific to business-type use. The problem is that this group of people is simply far too small at this point to cater too. The vast majority of people simply won't make a buying decision based on such features, so anyone catering to them wouldn't sell enough devices to generate a profit (or even break even).

    There's no longer a separate "corporate" market for smartphones, because corporations select phones for the same overall reasons as consumers do. It's not 2006 anymore.

    The best you're going to be able to do is contact developers and ask for features you like to be incorporated in their apps (Android or iOS apps). There's simply no room in the market for a 3rd OS/platform - devs just aren't interested in supporting it, and without apps, too few people are interested in buying it. Sailfish is currently the best option going, and while they've done great work, it's missing a ton of features and accessory support, and you have to buy an old device and then pay for the OS separately, etc. Honestly, I'll be surprised if Sailfish still exists 3 years from now.

    So, either you use BB10 for as long as you can and deal with its (growing) limitations, or you buy in to iOS or Android and accept new ways of doing things.

    You talked a lot about Blend. I've had virtually all of Blend's features since 2012 on Android, just not under a single app. But it makes very little difference, and it shows why no one outside of BB cared about Blend - it was old news the day it was released.

    Other BB10 features have either long been available on other platforms or have recently been added. Not every feature, of course, but you can't have everything. And if you're going to complain that you actually have to use an app that you installed yourself (rather than an app that BB installed) to do something, well, IMO, you're just being stubborn. The rest of the world has no issue using an app, and that's not likely to change for the few of you who don't.

    Let's be clear: I have no problem that you prefer BB10 and its features and way of working. But when you write a big post about why "someone" SHOULD do things the way you want rather than the way the whole market has decided - well, you open yourself up to rebuttal as to why that simply isn't going to happen. BB10 will be EOL in a year and it's losing features and capabilities almost daily. BB10 phones are wearing out, dying, or becoming obsolete due to networking changes. I had nothing to do with any of that - I'm just pointing out why there's little point in arguing for BB10's revival.

    As we've been saying, if you really believe there's a profitable way to serve this market, start a company, convince investors, and license BB10 or otherwise make and release your product. No one else is going to do it, so if you aren't going to, then there's not much point in talking about it. BB for sure has zero interest in doing it themselves, but will be happy to license it to you if you have the money and can meet their requirements...
    10-28-18 12:06 AM
  4. brookie229's Avatar
    Bring back Blend. No tweaks needed. Just like she was.
    We won't see Blend again but check out Fuse for Android. It is getting quite good imo.

    https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...z-inc-1098765/

    Nicely written post btw.
    10-28-18 12:28 AM
  5. superhario's Avatar
    I think you missed my point; I'm not arguing for revival I'm pointing out some very specific functionality that was lost when BB10 died. I think I acknowledged it's done and that the market has changed? I gave a list of what I'd like to see BlackBerry add to Android, since keyone is my daily driver. I also acknowledged what the big markets for Apple and Android are and that we need them, but expressed that I think there is still room for improvement and a little different of a take on them.

    And BlackBerry isn't going to do it or isn't interested? They just sent out a survey seeing what BlackBerry users want. I think they do care. In my experience through correspondence and beta testing, they are listening but maybe that's just me being optimistic.
    dmlis, wlharper2 and BerryRipe like this.
    10-28-18 03:34 PM
  6. superhario's Avatar
    I'll give it a try! Hope they are working on a version for mac.
    10-28-18 03:35 PM
  7. brookie229's Avatar
    I'll give it a try! Hope they are working on a version for mac.
    The plan is for mac as well, I believe.

    https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...65/index4.html
    10-28-18 08:24 PM
  8. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    ****, Tommy, Superhario....or whatever you call yourself these days....you've made me stop and realize the most import thing there is... is....that BlackBerry and BB10 is the Third Rock from The Sun!
    No not mercury too hot, not venus..too girly...but big blue beautiful Earth!. Sure you can try and colonize that inhospitable planet Android, but WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO? You have everything you need right here in BB10...waterfalls, the earth the wind, the birds everything!
    Everything! God, I'm a genius!
    Best seen on a Passport ....
    youtu.be/2Jgyqhz_mh8

    10-28-18 10:52 PM
  9. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    BB10 is the third rock from the sun? Looks more like a Uranus to me. 😀
    10-28-18 11:11 PM
  10. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    This is going to be a very long-winded post, some of which has already been discussed at length within these forums.

    I guess the inspiration for writing this comes from the fact I recently read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance for the third time and have been ruminating a lot on (the loss of) quality and what it means in today’s society. I’ve recently been asking myself why it bothers me so much that BB10 lost out to Android and iOS, when in many respects it was – and still is, a superior operating system. I think the answer is that society has in some ways, willingly shunned quality in favor of quantity and “newness.” It seems to me today the average consumer does not ask the question he or she used to ask, the quintessential question: how well does it work? But instead asks, what can it do that’s “new”, where new is a very relative term, as Apple continues to take from BB10 and call it innovation (timeshift, up-swipe gesture on the iPhoneX).

    I know, I know. I’m supposed to just get over it. Things change. Superior, well-designed, quality products often lose the market to their inferior counterparts and for a variety of reasons – some of them rather intangible and having nothing to do with the product itself. While the fall of Blackberry could be discussed at length, I’ll still provide my personal view on why my much loved BB10 is now in its death throes, while Android and iOS continue to chug along nicely.

    While I often blame the consumer and its mind boggling habits (mind boggling to me, at least), much of the fault lies with Blackberry. They didn’t take Steve Jobs and the iPhone seriously when it was first introduced. It didn’t light the proverbial fire under them, and as a result they were too late to the party in introducing BB10; for even thought it was the best designed operating system, the app ecosystems of Android and iOS were already in full swing while Blackberry was desperately trying to catch up by the time they introduced those ported Android apps that ran oh so poorly.

    Sure, there are still very few quality apps on Android and iOS in my opinion, still miles away from what was on Blackberry devices circa 2014. Google can’t even get a calculator app right! What, no unit converter?? And before you say, oh but there are so many calculator apps available on Android, trust me, I’ve plied through the Play Store to find a good calculator that isn’t load with adverts. Guess what? Nothing as good as the simple, functional, quality calculator app on BB10! Same with Google’s half-baked take on a Calendar, Gmail, etc, etc. But I’ll get into that later.

    The point is that it doesn’t matter to me how many. I don’t care about the options. I care about the quality of what’s there. And as is evidenced on the Play Store, you can have a thousand calculator apps, and they can all be ad-filled garbage.

    I also know that with what I look for in a phone, I am in the minority. I still use a phone for work. I still depend on it to manage emergencies and primarily be a communication tool or aid. I don’t give a flaming Charizard about chasing Pokemon. I couldn’t care less about gaming on a phone.

    The purpose of a phone has fundamentally changed from the early days of Blackberry. The mobile phone is now primarily a media consumption device rather than a productivity aid, and I’m fine with that. Pokemon to your heart’s content. Just don’t forget about little old me, sitting here asking: why can’t there still be room in the smartphone market for the business oriented – why is this niche being neglected, and neglected…bigly (sorry, couldn’t help myself)?

    While I believe the KeyOne, with its battery performance and some vastly improved Blackberry on Android software, has now actually started hitting upon that niche, and if all goes well has a chance to really corner this small section of the market, they just aren’t there yet (I don’t have much faith in this happening, they seem to have one and a half feet out of the smart phone game at this point). But why is Blackberry just not there yet? Well, the devil is in the details, and if you thought this post was going to be nothing but waxing poetic and old man nostalgia, I’m about to hit you with the deets like it’s 2011.

    First, a little background on the Blackberry devices I have owned and used:

    Z10

    Z30

    Passport (still have)

    Classic (still have)

    PRIV

    KeyOne (current daily driver)

    I’ve also had:

    Samsung S7

    Sony Xperia Z3

    IPhone 5

    Now the fun part. Explaining why Android and iOS suck, why BB10 is better, and of course, why I’m smarter than most people. Actually, the reason I’m doing this is because I hope somebody who develops software or works on mobile operating systems sees this, and starts integrating (re-integrating) some design features I’m really struggling to live without. And maybe, just maybe, starts putting a little quality back into their work.

    First, the obvious. What is a mobile phone? First and foremost it is a handheld device. So let me ask you then, Android or iOS users, (and please feel free to pull out your iPhone or S8 and play along!) why, if you try to use your phone with one hand, you are always stretching and then giving up and using two hands? Is it because (and now you can open an app – any app!), all of your settings, options nav buttons, URL bar are situated at the top of the screen and thus the top of your device? Well, “I never!,” you say. “What’s wrong with using two hands?” To which I answer, why use two when you can use one? Why get carpal tunnel when you don’t have to. And yes in the big picture of life and the world and the universe, it’s an infinitesimally small thing. A small detail of design that when you use a Blackberry on BB10, you realize is actually important, or at least makes a difference. It makes it easier to use your phone.

    On BB10, all of your options and settings could usually be accessed at the bottom of the screen, no stretching, no bringing in your other hand in. It was just there, within comfortable thumb range. The software was designed for being on a handheld, mobile device, instead of merely being ported or copied from computers, where menus and options are typically on top. See, Android and Google and iOS didn’t bother changing that, because they likely assumed that you as the consumer were too stupid to adjust to these things now being comfortably on the bottom of your phone. Whereas Blackberry said, it’s better at the bottom. And people are smart. They will adjust quickly, and realize that it just makes more sense.

    How about that lovely Google Assistant? Nice voice, funny, can sing a little. Can keep you entertained with trivia games on long family trips so that you don’t have to actually talk to your annoying offspring Jimmy about his boring middle school soccer team. All great. But one thing it still can’t do that Blackberry Assistant was capable of in, oh I don’t know, 2015? 2016? Read me my damn emails. Google Assistant won’t read me my emails. I used Blackberry Assistant all the time while driving for work to listen to my emails, and dictate a response to them, and then send said email, all without ever having to pick up my phone. It was safe, convenient, and in my job (dealing with emergencies, many of which are now communicated via email rather than phone calls) a necessity. I’m still waiting for Google to figure it out, but as they can’t even put together a decent calculator or functional auto mode (oh look! things on screen are bigger now!), I don’t have a lot of hope.

    Now lets talk about browsers! Oh we’re having fun now aren’t we? Most of you are probably using Chrome, Safari, Firefox, maybe Samsung Internet. Actually I like Samsung Internet. In fact, a lot of Samsung apps seem to incorporate old BB10 bits and pieces, almost like some people who worked on BB10 are now working for Samsung….I digress. You’re probably thinking, what could possibly be his problem with Google Chrome?

    No. Reader. Mode. I mean yes, there is a “reader mode” in beta, but it’s been in beta for years and Google obviously has no interest in making it a real feature, because if you choose to strip the ads out of web page to just read the content, you aren’t viewing the ads and thus old Google isn’t making their railroad money on you. And the beta reader mode is garbage on Chrome. Doesn’t work 90 percent of the time and is accessed via an annoying pop up at the bottom of your page. Same goes for Safari, Samsung, every browser I’ve ever used - if they have a reader mode, it either doesn’t work, or it is VERY selective on which web pages it works on (gotta have dat ad revenue babayyy$$$$).

    Blackberry didn’t have a stake in the ad game so they made a browser with a great reader mode that also happened to read aloud the web page to you if you wanted. All content. No annoying ads. No reading an article and halfway through the rest of the ads loaded and bumped you from your place in the article, causing you to throw your phone to the ground in frustration! Oh wait, you don’t do that. You accept the ads. Or you pay for ad blockers. You are probably also the kind of person who says “I don’t have anything to hide” when you learn all the different ways Google is mining your data to sell to others, thus missing the entire point that they have made one of the MOST LUCRATIVE INDUSTRIES ON EARTH by collecting YOUR data and selling it. And instead of a royalty check every month like you should be getting, you’re content to get a Pixel that will be bricked in two years and access to Chrome! Ugh, society. If you are going to make money off of me, I’d like a chunk of the change. Even if it’s only 8 bucks a year. It's the principle, people. And web pages, like hockey arenas and downtown common areas, are only getting uglier and more ad filled.

    I’ve actually remedied the problem on KeyOne with Keyboard Browser, which is almost a straight port of the BB10 browser minus the private browsing. But it has an extremely reliable reader mode. Can’t recommend it enough and if this guy (Alain Grainger?) could do it, why didn’t Blackberry? It should come stock on all Blackberry phones.

    Even just navigating BB10 with gestures (one move to get access to all of your messages and notifications) through peek and flow was better than anything that exists right now. And the look, that simple white on black design, just cannot be beat by anything Google or Apple have going, including Google’s fresh new material redesign. Not to mention, BB10 was smoother – no stutter, no lag, very much unlike Android Nougat Oreo Peanut Butter Barfait Whatever.

    Moving on to Blackberry Blend. Something that was so simple, yet so useful. Wirelessly tether your phone to your computer and have access to your texts, emails, calendar, messages, files, etc. on your computer screen without having to keep picking up your phone. I used this at work all the time. You could talk to your buddy about fantasy hockey and people just thought you were typing an important work email. Just kidding I never did that….yes I did. But seriously, it was a nicer interface than the version of Outlook my employer was using. Granted, it wasn’t as fully functional but it was all I needed. Anything like that on iOS? I honestly don’t know, I’m really asking. Because it’s not on Android. As Samsung farts around with an overly complicated DEX, and Samsung Sidesync resorts to a laggy emulation of your phone screen onto your computer, good old Blend is an unsupported and forgotten relic. Among myself and my Blackberry friends – ok, one Blackberry friend (but we are BEST friends) – this is probably the feature we are missing most. And it really was a perfect example of how Blackberry gave you what you needed; nothing more, nothing less. It was software that I just couldn’t find anything to complain about with. And as you can likely already see, that’s actually a very difficult accomplishment.

    And what about file management? Yes I realize Blackberry has a stock files app on Android now, and it’s decent. But my Apple loving nephew is going on about Apple now having a file manager like its some brand new idea. Listen here kid, gramps is gonna give it to you straight, we actually had that back in MY day.

    Meanwhile Android backers say, hey there are tons of file managers available. Yeah sure. And they are all full of ads, or you have to pay for them. So you buy a $800 phone and now you need to pay to have access to your own files. Again, you’re missing the point. It’s akin to buying a brand new car but if you want to get under the hood you have to take it to a 3rd party mechanic and pay him to unlock it. BB10 always had great, easy, simple, intuitive file management. Can’t be said for the others.

    Blackberry still has the best virtual keyboard in the biz. While all those other keyboards can only ever give you three predictions at one time, Blackberry can offer you many more. And they have the best prediction I’ve ever seen, literally taking the words out of my mouth when I’m composing work related emails, in that banal, there’s no way you can misinterpret THIS one Sally, email tone.

    Anyway, this post has become longer than most of my University essays. Rest assured I could go on and on about all of the different ways BB10 was better.

    Speaking of University, you know what was great? Opening a document on a BBM video chat and then seamlessly switching to sharing your screen, so you and your study group could comment on how the Powerpoint was coming along. No laptop or computer needed. And then when it came time to view the presentation on the big screen or share it, MIRACAST. Or DLNA. Or NFC. Alas, I can’t find a mobile app that does that (screen sharing within a video call) anymore. At least since the last time I checked. But in a few years Skype mobile or Facetime will come up with it and tout it as a brand new, super innovative feature!!! You just watch. And all of us Blackberry people will be bringing up the latest “I’m confused” meme and laughing amongst each other like schoolgirls at a slumber party.

    And now, as I’m losing some major steam on writing this, I would like to switch over to some constructive criticism and mention some things that I would like Blackberry to incorporate on Android to improve the user experience. Sadly, most of it is just asking them to do what they used to do. And I get it, Android is a different platform. It requires different programming and development and it doesn’t happen overnight, but I’m patient. It requires money and resources and investment in an area the company doesn’t seem to have interest in investing in these days. But if they make a few of these moves, they will continue to have a customer who writes 3000 word posts glorifying them as the upper echelon of the smartphone world, and waves his KeyOne in strangers’ faces until they ask him, “hey what kind of phone is that?”

    I admit, my facts may not be completely straight here. And I can’t be aware of every app in existence so please enlighten me if I’m missing something or have been inaccurate. And yes, I think about my phone too much. I use it way more than I should. But that only means I probably have a couple of points here worth noting.

    Also, I realize I’ve done a lot of iOS and Android bashing; but I don’t want them to crash and burn. My wife uses an iPhone, it just suits her needs and I don’t bust her balls about it. Personally, I use some Android apps frequently and that’s the reason I’m on the KeyOne and not my Passport. I’m just trying to say that we lost a lot when we lost BB10, and we need to get it back. So if anyone at Blackberry is listening, here’s how you can revive a bit of that BB10 magic on Android:

    Bring back Blend. No tweaks needed. Just like she was.

    Launcher – put the “clear all” at the bottom of the screen.

    Do your own take on Android pie gestures, because Google is botching it. Another example of how they patronize people is the ugly little pill button on the screen. If they made the gestures as intuitive as they were on BB10, you wouldn't need an on-screen pill and back button.

    Hub

    move attachments and options to bottom of screen or make keyboard shortcuts for attachments and options. Many apps have already migrated these to the bottom of the screen in preparation for Android Pie.

    Give more options on a swipe right on email (Snooze, Mark Read, File, etc.) Samsung email does a good job of this, but otherwise does not compare to Hub in functionality.

    BBM notifications (of all things, guys!) are not well integrated into the Hub or integrated at all into the Productivity Tab (which should have been called the Peek Tab, if you wanted to hit us BB fanboys in the feels.

    I’d also like to be able to send an email directly to Tasks/make a task out of it with one touch, kind of like how you used to be able to do it on BB10 with the Remember app. In fact, just bring back Remember. It was perfect.

    Calendar

    Local calendar needed

    Integrated tasks as on BB10

    BBM – not your problem anymore I guess, but I sure do miss the way it was. Especially that screen sharing option.

    If you’ve read this to the end, thank you. If you skipped to the end, it’s ok. I forgive you. You probably have Pokemon to catch.
    You captured so much of what keeps me using BB10. For me it comes down to the most basic issue. The old BlackBerry tailored it's products to enterprise users who cared about all the details that make a phone productive for traditional managerial work and communucations. The products were geeky and designed for specific workplace use cases.

    Today the hardware and OSes are designed to appeal to individual buyers, and app developers are expected to wave a magic wand to make apps that address the gaps. But the underlying hardware and OSes are fatally flawed, because they are designed with the general public in mind, and the general public are not interested in spending their hard-earned money on a device intended to benefit their employers. They prefer a lifestyle accessory that allows them to do work as needed.

    The problem is fundamental, until someone decides to genuinely target the old BlackBerry niche instead of paying lip service to it.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    trueliodat, bbfanfan and dmlis like this.
    10-28-18 11:18 PM
  11. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    BB10 is the third rock from the sun? Looks more like a Uranus to me.
    Perhaps to a tree climber following another one too closely it might look like that.
    10-29-18 12:33 AM
  12. co4nd's Avatar
    Actually I think all phones should be designed to require two hands to operate, to further discourage anyone from using it while driving.

    Course I realize that their will still be idiots steering with their knees.
    10-29-18 12:06 PM
  13. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Actually I think all phones should be designed to require two hands to operate, to further discourage anyone from using it while driving.

    Course I realize that their will still be idiots steering with their knees.
    That’s what I thought Cruise Control is for...
    app_Developer likes this.
    10-29-18 12:19 PM
  14. trueliodat's Avatar
    I can't figure out why they didn't bring over Blend to the PRIV and the rest of the Blackberry Secure Android suite. Blend was a killer app, under appreciated, and actually unique in the world of mobile platforms. So rather than complain about this, I've switched back to my Passport after spending about a year on iOS (I had to do it for a work project), and prior to that about a year on the Priv (I had to give it a try). I don't use many apps for myself, although I develop mobile apps (irony). My biggest gripe to date is lack of a native Firefox. Too many sites don't work well, yet most sites have a substitute for a mobile app. I'm considering looking into what effort it would take to get a native port of Firefox Focus (seems to be the most minimal stripped down OSS browser) ported to BB10.
    10-29-18 01:14 PM
  15. brookie229's Avatar
    I can't figure out why they didn't bring over Blend to the PRIV and the rest of the Blackberry Secure Android suite. Blend was a killer app, under appreciated, and actually unique in the world of mobile platforms. So rather than complain about this, I've switched back to my Passport after spending about a year on iOS (I had to do it for a work project), and prior to that about a year on the Priv (I had to give it a try). I don't use many apps for myself, although I develop mobile apps (irony). My biggest gripe to date is lack of a native Firefox. Too many sites don't work well, yet most sites have a substitute for a mobile app. I'm considering looking into what effort it would take to get a native port of Firefox Focus (seems to be the most minimal stripped down OSS browser) ported to BB10.
    Try Fuse for Android. There is a dev here on CB that is creating a Blend alternative for android. It is coming along very nicely!

    https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...z-inc-1098765/
    trueliodat likes this.
    10-29-18 01:40 PM
  16. trueliodat's Avatar
    Try Fuse for Android. There is a dev here on CB that is creating a Blend alternative for android. It is coming along very nicely!

    https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...z-inc-1098765/
    Super cool, and I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking this is very useful. It seems that "screen mirroring" has been a thing on Android for quite awhile, and I did try some different solutions, but was really not looking for screen mirroring specifically but a nice "hub" style PC/Mac companion software that prevents me from needing to look at the screen of my phone while working.
    10-29-18 01:56 PM
  17. Zidentia's Avatar
    In my opinion Android is still an unmitigated disaster of Spagetti code. I have a new Samsung Galaxy with the latest update and Mr
    Sammy does the best they can by smothering it in marshmallow and chocolate layers but it is plain to see it is a steaming heap. Google knows they have run out options to pull it altogether. That is why they are pushing people to Chrome and why they are developing a new mobile Os similar to QNX.

    Google knows and the word around the Development data cooler is Android in its current form is most likely dead in about 5 years depending on how quickly they get this new OS fleshed out.

    I have also used IOS for a few years and if you held a gun to my head and told me I had to choose between the two horses IOS would be my choice but I am not satisfied with it. I would have went back to Win mobile once the HP came out but they killed it before I could. I really did not care for the plastic phones but liked the new OS and had been waiting on a nice phone to use as BB10 died

    So here I sit waiting on something or some company to understand that business people need solid communications and a phone that works as a phone. The rest I do on a laptop. I am sorry but Android is a sorry excuse for software and it reminds me of Win Mobiles early days before they realized they had to develop a set of standards for consumer products.


    Posted via CB10
    trueliodat and dmlis like this.
    10-29-18 04:06 PM
  18. trueliodat's Avatar
    In my opinion Android is still an unmitigated disaster of Spagetti code. I have a new Samsung Galaxy with the latest update and Mr
    Sammy does the best they can by smothering it in marshmallow and chocolate layers but it is plain to see it is a steaming heap. Google knows they have run out options to pull it altogether. That is why they are pushing people to Chrome and why they are developing a new mobile Os similar to QNX.

    Google knows and the word around the Development data cooler is Android in its current form is most likely dead in about 5 years depending on how quickly they get this new OS fleshed out.

    I have also used IOS for a few years and if you held a gun to my head and told me I had to choose between the two horses IOS would be my choice but I am not satisfied with it. I would have went back to Win mobile once the HP came out but they killed it before I could. I really did not care for the plastic phones but liked the new OS and had been waiting on a nice phone to use as BB10 died

    So here I sit waiting on something or some company to understand that business people need solid communications and a phone that works as a phone. The rest I do on a laptop. I am sorry but Android is a sorry excuse for software and it reminds me of Win Mobiles early days before they realized they had to develop a set of standards for consumer products.


    Posted via CB10
    These are great points. And this is one of the more interesting (informed) posts I've seen on this board in awhile. My Wife hated her Z10 (couldn't figure out the gestures needed), and loved loved loved the WinMo phone (which had amazing battery life, general simplicity). Android and iOS seems to have turned a corner towards gamification of user addiction. I'm not being sarcastic. The overuse of notifications seem to be there to keep you staring at the phone. Apple seems to always want to make sure their stuff is up to date, and I can't handle the never-ending pop ups to update my iOS version (or mac version on the desktop). Apple also is in this expansion cycle where they are trying to protect their ecosystem which causes them to lock down everything. Arguably Apple delivers the most consistent experience (all apps behave and look similar/consistent), unlike the wild west on BB10.

    When I get rich ( ), I will buy Blackberry, and shutdown the Android efforts, and work with a consortium to build a viable third ecosystem not Apple or Google, focused on (1) privacy/security (2) open hardware (3) a viable ecosystem for devs to monetize globally. I'm wondering if something like a Flutter (https://flutter.io/) could be the new alternative for hybrid web apps to get closer to a standard UX that looks and feels familiar and could quickly enable porting. Sorry folks who love their 'droids, I'll be bringing back the BB10 ecosystem . Of course, I'm joking, but I think it's important to look for a 3rd viable alternative to the current duopoly of mobile OS ecosystems (one with a continuous upgrade funnel, the other with a continuous nightmare for privacy and security).
    10-29-18 04:53 PM
  19. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    These are great points. And this is one of the more interesting (informed) posts I've seen on this board in awhile. My Wife hated her Z10 (couldn't figure out the gestures needed), and loved loved loved the WinMo phone (which had amazing battery life, general simplicity). Android and iOS seems to have turned a corner towards gamification of user addiction. I'm not being sarcastic. The overuse of notifications seem to be there to keep you staring at the phone. Apple seems to always want to make sure their stuff is up to date, and I can't handle the never-ending pop ups to update my iOS version (or mac version on the desktop). Apple also is in this expansion cycle where they are trying to protect their ecosystem which causes them to lock down everything. Arguably Apple delivers the most consistent experience (all apps behave and look similar/consistent), unlike the wild west on BB10.

    When I get rich ( ), I will buy Blackberry, and shutdown the Android efforts, and work with a consortium to build a viable third ecosystem not Apple or Google, focused on (1) privacy/security (2) open hardware (3) a viable ecosystem for devs to monetize globally. I'm wondering if something like a Flutter (https://flutter.io/) could be the new alternative for hybrid web apps to get closer to a standard UX that looks and feels familiar and could quickly enable porting. Sorry folks who love their 'droids, I'll be bringing back the BB10 ecosystem . Of course, I'm joking, but I think it's important to look for a 3rd viable alternative to the current duopoly of mobile OS ecosystems (one with a continuous upgrade funnel, the other with a continuous nightmare for privacy and security).
    Be sure “rich” means greater amount than Bill Gates since he didn’t have enough to dethrone Android/IOS so he gave up.
    10-29-18 05:08 PM
  20. trueliodat's Avatar
    Be sure “rich” means greater amount than Bill Gates since he didn’t have enough to dethrone Android/IOS so he gave up.
    Is there an analysis somewhere of what went wrong with WinMo other than the anecdotal (it sucked, nobody bought it, Bill Gates ran out of money ... actually he had nothing to do with it ... his decision might have touched WinMo 5, but that predated the rise of iPhone or existence of Android). WinMo seemed to suffer from distribution problems, lack of a hit model, possibly lack of a Unique Selling Proposition, to get people buying in the first place, etc. At least, though, WinMo had a multi-hardware mfg strategy, and until MSFT bought Nokia, they were not building hardware themselves. Nokia probably would still be around if they had bet on Android and not WinMo. Where I think MSFT went wrong on WinMo was not creating a "great" seamless experience between Windows and WinMo handsets. They sort of tried with Win8, and by Win10 had sort of ditched the attempt to have a common UI.
    10-29-18 05:29 PM
  21. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Is there an analysis somewhere of what went wrong with WinMo other than the anecdotal (it sucked, nobody bought it, Bill Gates ran out of money ... actually he had nothing to do with it ... his decision might have touched WinMo 5, but that predated the rise of iPhone or existence of Android). WinMo seemed to suffer from distribution problems, lack of a hit model, possibly lack of a Unique Selling Proposition, to get people buying in the first place, etc. At least, though, WinMo had a multi-hardware mfg strategy, and until MSFT bought Nokia, they were not building hardware themselves. Nokia probably would still be around if they had bet on Android and not WinMo. Where I think MSFT went wrong on WinMo was not creating a "great" seamless experience between Windows and WinMo handsets. They sort of tried with Win8, and by Win10 had sort of ditched the attempt to have a common UI.
    Windows Central has plenty of break downs.

    https://www.windowscentral.com/micro...-ever-changing
    https://www.windowscentral.com/aband...iggest-mistake
    https://www.windowscentral.com/micro...-focus-anymore
    https://www.windowscentral.com/chime...windows-phones
    https://www.windowscentral.com/chime...osoft-owes-you
    https://www.windowscentral.com/why-d...ile-good-thing

    Take your pick, I'm sure there's more. - https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-mobile
    10-29-18 05:38 PM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Is there an analysis somewhere of what went wrong with WinMo other than the anecdotal (it sucked, nobody bought it, Bill Gates ran out of money ... actually he had nothing to do with it ... his decision might have touched WinMo 5, but that predated the rise of iPhone or existence of Android). WinMo seemed to suffer from distribution problems, lack of a hit model, possibly lack of a Unique Selling Proposition, to get people buying in the first place, etc. At least, though, WinMo had a multi-hardware mfg strategy, and until MSFT bought Nokia, they were not building hardware themselves. Nokia probably would still be around if they had bet on Android and not WinMo. Where I think MSFT went wrong on WinMo was not creating a "great" seamless experience between Windows and WinMo handsets. They sort of tried with Win8, and by Win10 had sort of ditched the attempt to have a common UI.
    The problem was similar to BB problem regardless of OS version. Bill Gates didn’t run out, but he’d still have few billion more in market capitalization.

    Developers just won’t support a third ecosystem past a certain stage in a technology lifecycle. Whether its OS, Mobile OS and even mobile itself, GSM vs CDMA, two of something appears to be enough because of infrastructure costs.

    I don’t think it’s possible with the backing of sovereign nation status backing since people would distrust the nation backing the development.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    10-29-18 05:47 PM
  23. trueliodat's Avatar
    These are interesting historical reactions to the meltdown of the WinMo market over time. I guess I'm looking for the business school sort of analysis, like, "What can we learn from Nokia/Microsofts mistakes". There is no way Nokia should have fallen so far, yet they did. I think I found what I was looking for (first 3-4 titles on Amazon): https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...UvbUpU13302185
    10-29-18 05:50 PM
  24. trueliodat's Avatar
    The problem was similar to BB problem regardless of OS version. Bill Gates didn’t run out, but he’d still have few billion more in market capitalization.

    Developers just won’t support a third ecosystem past a certain stage in a technology lifecycle. Whether its OS, Mobile OS and even mobile itself, GSM vs CDMA, two of something appears to be enough because of infrastructure costs.

    I don’t think it’s possible with the backing of sovereign nation status backing since people would distrust the nation backing the development.
    RIM (prior to transforming the company into Blackberry) had a Unique Selling Proposition. Describe it as being able to get email pushed to the handset, and superior integration with Outlook, meant there was a nice revenue stream for RIM in both hardware and also enterprise servers. Let's assume that was the pinnacle for RIM, both in terms of profit margin and also market share. I don't have insight into the decision making between 2005-2014 at RIM/Blackberry. Let's assume they saw the coming rise of smart phones. And let's assume they started working on something as far back as 2007.

    RIM had on hand:
    - Whatever the RIM OS was called
    - native SDK
    - a Java SDK

    Question: Did RIM even believe they weren't a smartphone at that time. I think we all might have been on Blackberry Curves at this time. I really liked that device. It was running BB OS 5 or 6 I think. I think it would have been easy to believe it was a full featured smart phone (if you were working for the company) and the specs were competitive still. But looking down the road, there were a number of trends coming: iPhone, the rise of carrier independent App Store ecosystems, more smart phone competition: Android and WinMo, even Palm was still kicking at that time.

    The critical error, and someone please correct me if I'm off on this: Not seeing in time that BB 5/6 was not going to take RIM/BB into the future of Smart Phones, and waited too long to really get the company behind a new smart phone OS based on QNX that would address the reality : app ecosystems with killer apps, a great camera, tons of bandwidth, carrier not the most important player anymore, full multimedia support, thin hardware. If they started this for real in 2010, that was *already too late*. One could argue that push Email as a USP or as the killer app was dead, and RIM realized that way too late in 2010. Thoughts? Never mind, the 2013 launch of the Z10 underwhelmed, pissed off in some cases, the core. The problems started 6-7 years before that point.
    10-29-18 06:11 PM
  25. curves2000's Avatar
    Love the original post and I think it has a lot of validity to it for a comparison of BlackBerry OS/ BlackBerry 10 and the other platforms.

    Don't get me wrong, BlackBerry 10 wasn't perfect and I think the fact that they launched it 2 years too late and without being stable, hurt their chances at some minor long term market share (5-10%)

    I still cling to my Passport SE and will probably use BlackBerry 10 until the EOL arrives or the KEY 3 is launched. It suits the majority of my needs and it aggravates my friends at the same time! LOL.

    I do think that BlackBerry's software team should have a look at what you are talking about it, I do think BlackBerry has an opportunity to add to their BlackBerry Android offering and I would like to see that to continue to evolve.

    Would you do us BlackBerry 10 and BlackBerry Android fans a favor and email this post or your thoughts to Alex Thurber? I do think upper management on the device business should be aware of what we, the end users are looking for. It appears that BlackBerry Mobile wants to continue the relationship and grow their portfolio and what better way to do that than grab the low hanging fruit so to speak and upsell exciting BlackBerry fans and clients along with their corporate and government users.

    If your interested, reply to this post and we can coordinate the information exchange!

    Cheers

    Posted via CB10
    trueliodat and dmlis like this.
    10-29-18 07:12 PM
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