10-31-13 09:13 PM
132 ... 23456
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  1. Omnitech's Avatar
    I am also having the same syncing issue with the Z10. It started after I updated (officially) to the 10.1 firmware. E-mails would just stop coming with no information given when you manually refresh. After missing some very important e-mails, I decided to set up the same e-mail account on my ipad and noticed that when the email stopped appearing on the z10 I get a "unable to connect to mail server error" on my ipad. I have disabled the e-mail acct on the z10 and now just receive the e-mails on my ipad and have not had any issues since then.

    This describes what I think are 2 important points. First, that BB10 seems inclined to fail miserably on email when it encounters internet connectivity issues, and does not recover gracefully.

    Second, BB10 has really horrible or nonexistent error messages, so if some problem does happen, either the user is given an ambiguous message that is not useful for understanding what went wrong, or they receive no message or indication of a problem at all, only to have to discover by themselves that (for example) email has not been retrieved for quite a while already.

    I noticed this on my own device yesterday, when I had intermittent signal. Instead of failing transiently or letting me know that it had a transient problem connecting to one of my email services, it instead popped-up a password dialog asking me to re-enter the previously working password, which A) shouldn't have ever been necessary because it was properly entered and working before, and B) when this sort of thing happens, most people end up entering the wrong password, which of course guarantees that from that point forward, even when there is no more technical problem with the internet link, that email account no longer works because the saved password is now wrong.
    06-04-13 08:56 PM
  2. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    I agree, the password asking issue is really annoying.

    Regarding the "unable to connect to mail server error", it could be a problem with the server which limits the number of connections from the same IP or per account. I know I had issues when adding several ActiveSync accounts from the same server, using several devices, connected through WiFi or sharing a connection.
    06-05-13 05:57 AM
  3. Omnitech's Avatar
    I agree, the password asking issue is really annoying.

    Regarding the "unable to connect to mail server error", it could be a problem with the server which limits the number of connections from the same IP or per account. I know I had issues when adding several ActiveSync accounts from the same server, using several devices, connected through WiFi or sharing a connection.

    One thing I am noticing, and this happened once before when I had my Gmail account on the device, is that Gmail seems FAR more likely to suffer from this password issue than any other provider.

    I have an Outlook.com account on the device that is solid as a rock.

    I have a Yahoo account that works fine for the most part. (Every once in a while it will claim you have bad credentials, and you have to login to their web interface to get it to stop complaining over IMAP.)

    I have a Fastmail IMAP account on the device, that I have not had ONE SINGLE problem with, login problem, password problem, nothing. It just works.

    I also have a couple of POP accounts configured, they work fine. (Except for the bizarro 30-day "expiration" of messages in Hub)

    So it is beginning to seem like there is some real stupidness on the part of Gmail and Yahoo in particular, where their systems seem to be very finicky about logins over IMAP.

    I know already that Gmail has a penchant for accusing your mobile logins of being "suspicious", and blocking them. They send you notices along those lines from time-to-time.
    06-05-13 07:13 AM
  4. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    Yeah, it's very strange. I have ZERO problem with the same accounts on IMAP, but with ActiveSync, I used to get disconnected all the time, to the point where it would refuse to connect for a while. I'm testing an Exchange 2010 SP2 clone and I'm crossing my fingers that it improves the experience.
    06-05-13 08:18 AM
  5. Omnitech's Avatar
    I'm testing an Exchange 2010 SP2 clone...

    "clone"?
    06-05-13 08:25 AM
  6. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    Yep, The Horde Project
    Here is the list of supported features. Perfect for small businesses imho.
    Wiki :: ActiveSync/FeatureGrid
    06-05-13 08:32 AM
  7. HotFix's Avatar
    Yep, The Horde Project
    Here is the list of supported features. Perfect for small businesses imho.
    Wiki :: ActiveSync/FeatureGrid
    Reading that second link makes me they might be using IMAP as the sync tool for email. At least that is how I initially take "Horde_Imap_Client library", which takes you to a page that doesn't mention ActiveSync.
    So I would be very cautious when using the word "clone", because it isn't a clone so much as someone who has written their own ActiveSync provider following the documentation for the protocol.

    Posted via CB10
    06-05-13 06:48 PM
  8. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    Reading that second link makes me they might be using IMAP as the sync tool for email. At least that is how I initially take "Horde_Imap_Client library", which takes you to a page that doesn't mention ActiveSync.
    So I would be very cautious when using the word "clone", because it isn't a clone so much as someone who has written their own ActiveSync provider following the documentation for the protocol.

    Posted via CB10
    No, they're using ActiveSync as the sync tool, but being smart and reusing their IMAP library to connect to the backend.

    I don't care much about the other things Exchange might do which are unrelated to Syncing PIM data and providing policies, but enlighten me and tell me why this shouldn't be called anExchange clone. Just a few words.
    06-06-13 05:46 AM
  9. Omnitech's Avatar
    Reading that second link makes me they might be using IMAP as the sync tool for email. At least that is how I initially take "Horde_Imap_Client library", which takes you to a page that doesn't mention ActiveSync.
    So I would be very cautious when using the word "clone", because it isn't a clone so much as someone who has written their own ActiveSync provider following the documentation for the protocol.

    The thing is, while the protocol documentation is public now (probably due to antitrust rulings in Europe), I believe that the use of it in a commercial product still requires a license of the Microsoft patents that apply to EAS.

    So it's interesting that these open-source products are creating EAS implementations. I wonder if Microsoft will eventually demand that they pay up.

    Axigen has a free product that has EAS capability but it's a paid add-on and GeCad has been a EAS licensee since 2009.
    06-06-13 06:08 AM
  10. Omnitech's Avatar
    I don't care much about the other things Exchange might do which are unrelated to Syncing PIM data and providing policies, but enlighten me and tell me why this shouldn't be called anExchange clone. Just a few words.

    Since it most likely doesn't provide a large degree of functionality that Microsoft Exchange does, I don't think it's accurate to call it a "clone".

    It would probably be more accurate to call it a "groupware server that uses an implementation of Exchange ActiveSync similiar to Microsoft Exchange".

    This is like the people who like to call Mozilla Thunderbird a "Outlook clone" or "Outlook killer". Not really, but they could probably get away by saying "Outlook alternative" as long as people understand that "alternative" doesn't mean "equivalent" any more than a Mitsubishi Eclipse is a "Ferrari alternative".
    06-06-13 06:14 AM
  11. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    The thing is, while the protocol documentation is public now (probably due to antitrust rulings in Europe), I believe that the use of it in a commercial product still requires a license of the Microsoft patents that apply to EAS.

    So it's interesting that these open-source products are creating EAS implementations. I wonder if Microsoft will eventually demand that they pay up.

    Axigen has a free product that has EAS capability but it's a paid add-on and GeCad has been a EAS licensee since 2009.
    You are correct. In the US, you cannot use the ActiveSync component unless you own licenses, but then you may want to use the real thing if there aren't any other related costs.
    06-06-13 06:22 AM
  12. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    Since it most likely doesn't provide a large degree of functionality that Microsoft Exchange does, I don't think it's accurate to call it a "clone".

    It would probably be more accurate to call it a "groupware server that uses an implementation of Exchange ActiveSync similiar to Microsoft Exchange".

    This is like the people who like to call Mozilla Thunderbird a "Outlook clone" or "Outlook killer". Not really, but they could probably get away by saying "Outlook alternative" as long as people understand that "alternative" doesn't mean "equivalent" any more than a Mitsubishi Eclipse is a "Ferrari alternative".
    I agree, Horde only covers the groupware functionalities. An Exchange clone would, roughly, be a combination of Exim, Dovecot and Horde. And the latter doesn't offer all the features of v2010...yet.
    06-06-13 06:32 AM
  13. Omnitech's Avatar
    I agree, Horde only covers the groupware functionalities. An Exchange clone would, roughly, be a combination of Exim, Dovecot and Horde. And the latter doesn't offer all the features of v2010...yet.

    Not really, because none of those things are going to provide all the Active Directory functionality, or all the APIs and hooks to 3rd-party enterprise add-ons that exist for Exchange, or equivalent high-availability features, or anything but a small subset of the management tools, etc etc.

    So once again, saying that it's an "alternative" is one thing, saying it's a "clone" is quite another.
    06-06-13 08:46 PM
  14. Omnitech's Avatar
    You are correct. In the US, you cannot use the ActiveSync component unless you own licenses, but then you may want to use the real thing if there aren't any other related costs.

    So are you implying that the only organizations that are obligated to pay licensing fees for Microsoft's patents that cover EAS are ones headquartered in the USA, or where their customers are located in the USA? I find that hard to believe.
    06-06-13 08:47 PM
  15. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    Not really, because none of those things are going to provide all the Active Directory functionality, or all the APIs and hooks to 3rd-party enterprise add-ons that exist for Exchange, or equivalent high-availability features, or anything but a small subset of the management tools, etc etc.

    So once again, saying that it's an "alternative" is one thing, saying it's a "clone" is quite another.
    I'll give you the APIs and hooks. Everything else is not really part of Exchange and can be achieved by choosing the best components for the job at hand. Replace AD with OpenLDAP or use another clone like Samba. You have plenty of solutions when it comes to HA, databases, file systems, replication, etc., etc.
    06-06-13 09:26 PM
  16. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    So are you implying that the only organizations that are obligated to pay licensing fees for Microsoft's patents that cover EAS are ones headquartered in the USA, or where their customers are located in the USA? I find that hard to believe.
    In the US, you have to take your chances, because of the broken software patent laws. You can decide that it's your right to use their protocol, but can you fight Microsoft in court? One thing I'm not sure of is whether you simply need to have your servers outside of the US or if they look at your HQ and subsidiaries.
    06-06-13 09:36 PM
  17. DrEAdler's Avatar
    Hi,

    I had Blackberries for years and loved it. I needed to buy the BB-Option from my provider and install a BB-Server running on my Exchange Server. The problem was, the BB-Server-software started to slow the whole Exchange....
    I quit and changed to iPhone and than Galaxy. They suck.

    Question: does the new OS10 allow to run a BB without using a BB-Server (either hosted in ones own company)? Just like Apple or Android? If so: is there a full sync with Mail, calender, contacts etc.?
    06-07-13 01:06 AM
  18. jonty12's Avatar
    Hi,

    I had Blackberries for years and loved it. I needed to buy the BB-Option from my provider and install a BB-Server running on my Exchange Server. The problem was, the BB-Server-software started to slow the whole Exchange....
    I quit and changed to iPhone and than Galaxy. They suck.

    Question: does the new OS10 allow to run a BB without using a BB-Server (either hosted in ones own company)? Just like Apple or Android? If so: is there a full sync with Mail, calender, contacts etc.?
    In short - yes. To all your questions.

    Posted via CB10
    06-07-13 02:48 AM
  19. HotFix's Avatar
    I'll give you the APIs and hooks. Everything else is not really part of Exchange and can be achieved by choosing the best components for the job at hand. Replace AD with OpenLDAP or use another clone like Samba. You have plenty of solutions when it comes to HA, databases, file systems, replication, etc., etc.
    This particular discussion is really getting off topic, but I wanted to explain that as someone who has worked with Microsoft Exchange for 15+ years and even worked for Microsoft as an Senior Consultant for Exchange, and also someone who has worked in the medical and bio-medical research fields, I find the term "clone" in this case almost offensive. Clone implies either an exact replica or close enough replica that it could be interchanged with the original versions and not be detectable as being different.

    You could not take one of the open source systems running multiple pieces of software and inject it into the middle of an Exchange Database Availability Group, make it an Exchange public folder replica, or have it act as a front-end server (CAS for the older versions) for Exchange mailbox database servers. Therefor I can assure you it is not a clone.

    Might I suggest the use of the word compatible? That has a very different implication and is what I think you are after when you are talking about ActiveSync and the implementation they have come up with being compatible with the Exchange versus being an exact duplicate of their implementation (unless the authors got the source code to Exchange and I am not aware of it).

    Sorry to be nitpicky, but this difference in semantics is what sparked much back and forth.
    06-07-13 07:12 AM
  20. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    Clone implies either an exact replica or close enough replica that it could be interchanged with the original versions and not be detectable as being different.
    In the context of delivering PIM data via ActiveSync to mobile end users, I would call an Open Source solution using Horde as the groupware component to be a clone then. It's completely transparent to the users. What the IT team does in the background to make sure performance and reliability are delivered doesn't really matter.

    But for the IT team, I agree that you would have to call it a compatible solution rather than a clone, even if I don't think any IT architect would be confused enough to ever try to do what you've described. You might use part of the Open Source solution to achieve one of your goals (public folder replica, mailbox proxy, etc.), but not the whole solution as a bloc. The best approach is usually to get rid of Exchange entirely anyway.
    06-07-13 08:49 AM
  21. HotFix's Avatar
    In the context of delivering PIM data via ActiveSync to mobile end users, I would call an Open Source solution using Horde as the groupware component to be a clone then. It's completely transparent to the users. What the IT team does in the background to make sure performance and reliability are delivered doesn't really matter.
    That's like saying a Ford car is a clone of a Honda car, because they are both vehicles designed with similar internal components (like a combusion engine), they are designed to operate on the same roads under the same operating rules, and they both perform the same task of transporting users and cargo transparently to the users. That just doesn't make sense because they aren't clones of each other.

    But for the IT team, I agree that you would have to call it a compatible solution rather than a clone, even if I don't think any IT architect would be confused enough to ever try to do what you've described. You might use part of the Open Source solution to achieve one of your goals (public folder replica, mailbox proxy, etc.), but not the whole solution as a bloc. The best approach is usually to get rid of Exchange entirely anyway.
    The products don't operate 100% exactly the same in every respect, or at a minimum they aren't fully interchangeable, so they aren't clones. And an IT architect, of which I am one, would never consider them clones in the first place to even begin to make that mistake.

    Regarding getting rid of Exchange being the best approach, you go right on thinking that in your la la land of Linux and open source awesomeness. I wish you all the best and happy "cloning"!
    06-07-13 12:03 PM
  22. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    That's like saying a Ford car is a clone of a Honda car, because they are both vehicles designed with similar internal components (like a combusion engine), they are designed to operate on the same roads under the same operating rules, and they both perform the same task of transporting users and cargo transparently to the users. That just doesn't make sense because they aren't clones of each other.
    Fine, we can call them compatible. On a basis that driving stick is similar on most cars, so the user is compatible with most cars, even if they're not clones.
    At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. Right now, Open Source solutions can't offer all the ActiveSync features contained in the latest revision of Exchange, but a lot of small businesses just don't care about many of the extras and if they already use IMAP for email, then they get mobile PIM sync for free. Those who need all the bells and whistles and have the money for it, will not consider any alternative. Apparently you feel safer with Exchange and have invested a lot of time as a Microsoft evangelist. Whatever floats your boat. I choose reliability over long marketing specs sheets.
    06-07-13 12:56 PM
  23. HotFix's Avatar
    Fine, we can call them compatible. On a basis that driving stick is similar on most cars, so the user is compatible with most cars, even if they're not clones.
    At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. Right now, Open Source solutions can't offer all the ActiveSync features contained in the latest revision of Exchange, but a lot of small businesses just don't care about many of the extras and if they already use IMAP for email, then they get mobile PIM sync for free. Those who need all the bells and whistles and have the money for it, will not consider any alternative. Apparently you feel safer with Exchange and have invested a lot of time as a Microsoft evangelist. Whatever floats your boat. I choose reliability over long marketing specs sheets.
    Agreed there are a lot of 3rd party solutions that don't have all of the higher end capabilities of Exchange, such as federation or geo-clustering, that work great for small companies because they meet their basic needs. But lets please not get into "reliability" discussions because nothing beats Exchange IMHO when it deployed correctly (geo-cluster DAG with multiple database copies and a tiered architecture).
    06-07-13 02:02 PM
  24. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    But lets please not get into "reliability" discussions because nothing beats Exchange IMHO when it deployed correctly (geo-cluster DAG with multiple database copies and a tiered architecture).
    I was thinking more about the underlying layers and dependencies, the rest is just standard best practice if per example disaster recovery and HA are part of your requirements.
    06-07-13 05:26 PM
  25. Omnitech's Avatar
    No quibble with the fact that lots of organizations don't need a lot of the enterprise messaging functionality, but that fact has nothing to do with whether or not something that is "good enough for them" is actually a "clone" or not.

    Matter of fact, a true-blue OSS fanboi would never even want an OSS solution to be a "clone" of such an MS product, because that would imply it was closed-source, expensive, opaque from a technology/security standpoint, not easily user-customizable/enhanceable, designed for ecosystem lock-in, and so on.

    I personally have no problem deploying OSS products when they do the job, and I think there's a lot of places for them in the I.T. landscape.

    On the other hand, if I run into an urgent problem at 3AM on a critical production system that needs to be fixed ASAP and it's beyond my ability to troubleshoot, I need a product that comes with the ability to get someone on the horn at that time and solve the issue, not post a plea on some miscellaneous mailing-list or web forum and then sit there hoping that some random flotsam/jetsam will wander along at some point and give me the correct solution to the problem, while I sit there hitting "reload" every 5 minutes on the browser or waiting fruitlessly for an email from some random person that never materializes.

    And the OSS purists who go around quoting RMS and are in the habit of referring to Linux as "GNU/Linux" and so on, are just about as tedious to me as rabid vegans or xtians are.

    Believe me, I have a good long list of gripes about Microsoft products. I just think that that needn't blind us to objective reality and start thinking that because the only tool we have is a hammer, everything else in the world is a nail.
    06-08-13 12:14 AM
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