03-27-20 03:53 AM
38 12
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  1. fergusd's Avatar
    Previously -
    Every so often Settings > App Manager > Device Monitor > Storage > System shows an extraordinary increase over the usual ~3 Gb (ymmv) leading to approx 0 Gb Free, and the machine limps, or jams. No known or understood cause (afaik). Only known solution is a ground zero reboot.
    Yesterday, twice -
    Installed apps failed to start, showing only the creeping progress bar at Jurassic speed. The same route to Storage described above showed Data 0 Mb against all apps. File Manager > misc > android showed just one folder (Android) instead of the usual dozen or so. No idea what triggered this but the machine (beautiful trusty Z10) was unusable. After a ground zero reboot i.e. using the autoloader, within half an hour, the identical phenomenon occurred.
    No idea of cause, I can't remember doing anything unusual, far less anything daft. Thinking Z10 overload - it is rather low-spec nowadays - or, worse, hardware malfunction or permanent flaw, I could not face another fresh start and moved to my Passport Original, kept in a drawer as (a) of unwieldy shape and size and (b) having the horrid PKB. But, it's spec is greatly improved over the Z10 and currently it is behaving. Not that limited spec necessarily explains the Z10 implosion.
    Any ideas? Similar experiences?
    03-24-20 02:39 AM
  2. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Previously -
    Every so often Settings > App Manager > Device Monitor > Storage > System shows an extraordinary increase over the usual ~3 Gb (ymmv) leading to approx 0 Gb Free, and the machine limps, or jams. No known or understood cause (afaik). Only known solution is a ground zero reboot.
    Yesterday, twice -
    Installed apps failed to start, showing only the creeping progress bar at Jurassic speed. The same route to Storage described above showed Data 0 Mb against all apps. File Manager > misc > android showed just one folder (Android) instead of the usual dozen or so. No idea what triggered this but the machine (beautiful trusty Z10) was unusable. After a ground zero reboot i.e. using the autoloader, within half an hour, the identical phenomenon occurred.
    No idea of cause, I can't remember doing anything unusual, far less anything daft. Thinking Z10 overload - it is rather low-spec nowadays - or, worse, hardware malfunction or permanent flaw, I could not face another fresh start and moved to my Passport Original, kept in a drawer as (a) of unwieldy shape and size and (b) having the horrid PKB. But, it's spec is greatly improved over the Z10 and currently it is behaving. Not that limited spec necessarily explains the Z10 implosion.
    Any ideas? Similar experiences?
    I believe you’ve answered your own questions. In 2020, most BB10 fans here will tell you to stick to native ecosystem. The Android ecosystem from 2013 or so wasn’t designed to run optimally within ART 4.3, BB10 and it’s hardware.
    03-24-20 06:47 AM
  3. conite's Avatar
    Previously -
    Every so often Settings > App Manager > Device Monitor > Storage > System shows an extraordinary increase over the usual ~3 Gb (ymmv) leading to approx 0 Gb Free, and the machine limps, or jams. No known or understood cause (afaik). Only known solution is a ground zero reboot.
    Yesterday, twice -
    Installed apps failed to start, showing only the creeping progress bar at Jurassic speed. The same route to Storage described above showed Data 0 Mb against all apps. File Manager > misc > android showed just one folder (Android) instead of the usual dozen or so. No idea what triggered this but the machine (beautiful trusty Z10) was unusable. After a ground zero reboot i.e. using the autoloader, within half an hour, the identical phenomenon occurred.
    No idea of cause, I can't remember doing anything unusual, far less anything daft. Thinking Z10 overload - it is rather low-spec nowadays - or, worse, hardware malfunction or permanent flaw, I could not face another fresh start and moved to my Passport Original, kept in a drawer as (a) of unwieldy shape and size and (b) having the horrid PKB. But, it's spec is greatly improved over the Z10 and currently it is behaving. Not that limited spec necessarily explains the Z10 implosion.
    Any ideas? Similar experiences?
    System size is typically between 3GB and 5GB. What size are you getting after a clean wipe with no restore? How many apps did you reinstall? You should limit yourself to no more than 10-12 Android apps on the Z10.
    03-24-20 07:20 AM
  4. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    One of the big mistakes I keep seeing "locally" is people who setup their email to download everything... I've got email accounts that are 10 - 15GB alone. If you were to add three or four of these to a phone and sync forever or no limit, that could eat up a lot of storage. For most 30 days should be good... as you can search the cloud for older emails if needed.
    03-24-20 08:30 AM
  5. fergusd's Avatar
    Thanks for all insights, all generally indicative of an aging platform trying to do too much, too well. The Z10 will be 7 in May. System load is 3.0 Gb now - I have already loaded several apps so guess it's about 2.8 at start: nothing that should be overwhelming. I run two EAS email accounts, both with "Forever" history, but load is genuinely small as both are only 7 months old. Previously I had one "Forever" going back 6+ years at about 1000 Sent + Received per month, with just the occasional Type 1 stutter as described in this post. I have loaded 28 apps - maybe that's the killer issue??!! Never thought about it as a performance-breaking demand up to now, but that is surely the last straw for the phone. Thank you. I'd better do some sieving. Years ago I observed that for all but about 3 or 4 of them, as good support (and maybe even better) is provided by visiting the host web site.
    03-24-20 11:53 AM
  6. fergusd's Avatar
    PS As previously commented by several BB10 afficionados at various times, if PP capability and capacity were shoehorned into the Z10, that would make it a truly super-excellent device.
    03-24-20 11:58 AM
  7. brookie229's Avatar
    I have loaded 28 apps - maybe that's the killer issue??!! Never thought about it as a performance-breaking demand up to now, but that is surely the last straw for the phone.
    Yeah if you want to run lots of android apps (especially today's power chewing apps), then you are looking at the wrong device, period. Even the more powerful Passport will begin to strain under that load. BB10 devices are best at communication and some other light functions.
    03-24-20 01:19 PM
  8. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Yeah if you want to run lots of android apps (especially today's power chewing apps), then you are looking at the wrong device, period. Even the more powerful Passport will begin to strain under that load. BB10 devices are best at communication and some other light functions.
    ...as with all android devices of that age. The Android phones never did fully disclose their number of apps running or loaded extreme limitations, nor the lack of true access to the sd card back then ( it really wasn't at all a selling feature at the time to mention these annoyances). 500Meg android phones are basically useless feature phones, 1G about the same.....4 and 6gigs (not storage, but memory) probably finally allow for more apps...depending on how much they hog the processor and or how much they firehose the i/o network or memory with mostly mysterious activity.

    Of course hopefully you are only loading the email headers (subject lines) and not automatically loading the message body (including attachments) with that z10. But that would be a total storage filling up issue, not necessarily or likely a memory one.
    03-24-20 04:30 PM
  9. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Previously -
    Every so often Settings > App Manager > Device Monitor > Storage > System shows an extraordinary increase over the usual ~3 Gb (ymmv) leading to approx 0 Gb Free, and the machine limps, or jams. No known or understood cause (afaik).
    When you look at the Storage breakdown by apps what do you see? Just open it and leave it open and check it periodically and see what's swallowing all the memory....whatever is, that will be the problem. Take some screen prints of the memory used, then check later and compare them. You might be able to narrow the problem down to a specific set of apps growing large in memory usage.
    03-24-20 04:45 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    ...as with all android devices of that age. The Android phones never did fully disclose their number of apps running or loaded extreme limitations, nor the lack of true access to the sd card back then ( it really wasn't at all a selling feature at the time to mention these annoyances). 500Meg android phones are basically useless feature phones, 1G about the same.....4 and 6gigs (not storage, but memory) probably finally allow for more apps...depending on how much they hog the processor and or how much they firehose the i/o network or memory with mostly mysterious activity.

    Of course hopefully you are only loading the email headers (subject lines) and not automatically loading the message body (including attachments) with that z10. But that would be a total storage filling up issue, not necessarily or likely a memory one.
    BB10 is far less resource efficient than Android ever was - particularly with memory.
    03-24-20 05:18 PM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    BB10 is far less resource efficient than Android ever was - particularly with memory.
    Curious, is that statement referring to BB10 running apps via ART 4.3 or are you referring to native apps too?
    03-24-20 06:36 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    Curious, is that statement referring to BB10 running apps via ART 4.3 or are you referring to native apps too?
    The whole OS. It wasn't scaleable to the 1GB of the PlayBook, and runs like crap on the 1.5GB Z3.

    Modern Android devices are still being sold with 1GB of ram, and although not performance beasts by any means, can run fairly well.
    03-24-20 07:11 PM
  13. mh1983's Avatar
    The whole OS. It wasn't scaleable to the 1GB of the PlayBook, and runs like crap on the 1.5GB Z3.
    Agreed

    Modern Android devices are still being sold with 1GB of ram, and although not performance beasts by any means, can run fairly well.
    Wholeheartedly disagree. Android on 1 gb running "Fairly well" is quite generous. We have a Fire tablet with 1.5 gigs of RAM. While it runs decently, it definitely struggles under load.
    03-25-20 10:24 AM
  14. conite's Avatar
    Agreed



    Wholeheartedly disagree. Android on 1 gb running "Fairly well" is quite generous. We have a Fire tablet with 1.5 gigs of RAM. While it runs decently, it definitely struggles under load.
    App load is another thing.

    But I had a a Asus Nexus 7 tablet for years, with 1 GB ram, and it was quite good.

    BB10 can't even turn on and load system apps with 1GB.
    03-25-20 10:28 AM
  15. mh1983's Avatar
    App load is another thing.

    But I had a a Asus Nexus 7 tablet for years, with 1 GB ram, and it was quite good.

    BB10 can't even turn on and load system apps with 1GB.
    It's not another thing. It's directly related to how an OS "runs". What's the point of measuring the OS performance if you're leaving app load out of the picture?

    What version of Android did your Nexus 7 run on? I had one too. It got a Lollipop update and it ran horribly. I downgraded to Kitkat and it ran well. In any case, it's hardly a "modern device".

    And you've used BB10 on a 1gb device, presumably? And you're talking about app load for BB10 on suboptimal hardware -- don't be choosy in comparison; it skews the argument and makes you look biased in favour of Android (if you're are, that's fine. Just come out and say it. ).
    03-25-20 10:35 AM
  16. conite's Avatar
    It's not another thing. It's directly related to how an OS "runs". What's the point of measuring the OS performance if you're leaving app load out of the picture?

    What version of Android did your Nexus 7 run on? I had one too. It got a Lollipop update and it ran horribly. I downgraded to Kitkat and it ran well. In any case, it's hardly a "modern device".

    And you've used BB10 on a 1gb device, presumably? And you're talking about app load for BB10 on suboptimal hardware -- don't be choosy in comparison; it skews the argument and makes you look biased in favour of Android (if you're are, that's fine. Just come out and say it. ).
    I'm not biased at all. Couldn't care less.

    BB10 can't even load the OS with 1 GB.

    Android can load the OS AND a few apps at 1 GB.

    BB10 is unchanged from 2012, so it's more fair to compare against jellybean anyway.

    There are 2020 devices with 1 GB currently being sold - like the Nokia 1 using Android GO - which is still more substantial than KitKat.
    03-25-20 10:50 AM
  17. the_boon's Avatar
    There are 2020 devices with 1 GB currently being sold
    Such as this guy



    https://www.nyxmobile.net/click

    https://www.telcel.com/personas/equi...n=grafito-16GBYikes! Another reason for ground zero reboot-screenshot_20200325-130206.jpeg
    mh1983 likes this.
    03-25-20 12:02 PM
  18. mh1983's Avatar
    Nice! lol. Conite, would you say this device runs fairly well?
    03-25-20 12:23 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    Nice! lol. Conite, would you say this device runs fairly well?
    Likely not well enough for me. But it evidently loads full Nougat AND a number of apps.
    03-25-20 12:31 PM
  20. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    BB10 is far less resource efficient than Android ever was - particularly with memory.
    Don't confuse memory resource efficiency with pre-loaded useful tools that use memory. That was my point in the first place.
    mh1983 likes this.
    03-25-20 01:05 PM
  21. mh1983's Avatar
    I'm not biased at all. Couldn't care less.

    BB10 can't even load the OS with 1 GB.

    Android can load the OS AND a few apps at 1 GB.

    BB10 is unchanged from 2012, so it's more fair to compare against jellybean anyway.

    There are 2020 devices with 1 GB currently being sold - like the Nokia 1 using Android GO - which is still more substantial than KitKat.
    Everyone's biased in some way.
    03-25-20 01:06 PM
  22. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    The whole OS. It wasn't scaleable to the 1GB of the PlayBook, and runs like crap on the 1.5GB Z3.

    Modern Android devices are still being sold with 1GB of ram, and although not performance beasts by any means, can run fairly well.
    The 1 Gig Blackberry playbook ran much more, and much more efficiently than those terrible performing 1 Gig Android tablets back in the day. It was miles ahead of Android, no contest. How bad were they? I remember that well. The androids were just junk for my use case and my expectations. You couldn't even load an upgrade to the OS because it was bursting at the seems once you loaded a couple of apps. (Though that was its storage space issues/demands, rather than memory). Maybe they're slightly better today but they weren't when i tried another one over a year ago. One wonders if an android foldable phone is going to be as bad as my memory of those tablets.
    03-25-20 01:12 PM
  23. conite's Avatar
    Everyone's biased in some way.
    About some things maybe. But this is a straight-up technical issue that is testable and repeatable.
    03-25-20 01:14 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    The 1 Gig Blackberry playbook ran much more, and much more efficiently than those terrible performing 1 Gig Android tablets back in the day. It was miles ahead of Android, no contest. How bad were they? I remember that well. The androids were just junk for my use case and my expectations. You couldn't even load an upgrade to the OS because it was bursting at the seems once you loaded a couple of apps. (Though that was its storage space issues/demands, rather than memory). Maybe they're slightly better today but they weren't when i tried another one over a year ago. One wonders if an android foldable phone is going to be as bad as my memory of those tablets.
    You're now talking about PlayBook OS - not BB10. The former is much, much smaller than the latter (by 33%).
    Last edited by conite; 03-25-20 at 01:31 PM.
    app_Developer likes this.
    03-25-20 01:15 PM
  25. conite's Avatar
    Don't confuse memory resource efficiency with pre-loaded useful tools that use memory. That was my point in the first place.
    No, you said 1GB Android devices were "basically useless feature phones".

    I reminded you that BB10 isn't even bootable on 1GB, so what does that make it?
    03-25-20 01:17 PM
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