08-05-16 09:30 AM
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  1. RPM_KW's Avatar

    And if those workers were in Silicon Valley instead of Waterloo, you'd be looking at $200,000 per employee per year.
    I think that you would need to pay that here. No one wants to go back to BlackBerry for fear of being laid off in two months.

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB, StephanieMaks and Ronindan like this.
    07-11-16 10:35 PM
  2. thurask's Avatar
    I'm sure that asking the usual "give me free apps/VPN" crowd to fork over even more money for BB10 will go over well.
    07-11-16 11:20 PM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I think that you would need to pay that here. No one wants to go back to BlackBerry for fear of being laid off in two months.
    Good point. I didn't bother to think it out that far because it was already unworkable, but if in some crazy world it was actually attempted, I'm sure you'd be right, for just that reason.
    07-12-16 12:24 AM
  4. Polt's Avatar
    No I wouldn't, android has all the stuff that BB10 can offer and better.
    07-12-16 01:08 AM
  5. kvndoom's Avatar
    Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnope.
    07-12-16 03:22 AM
  6. MC_A_DOT's Avatar
    I would pay $100 a month for new development.

    Posted via CB10
    You need to lay off the crack
    07-12-16 04:40 AM
  7. filanto's Avatar
    They can't sell the phones, what makes you think that they can sell the use of the phone on a yearly basis

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    07-12-16 04:44 AM
  8. tinochiko's Avatar
    BB has laid off 7000 people that were working on BB10. Let's say you only needed 1/3 of them to actually work on the OS. That's 2333 people - skilled people whose total cost to the company* is going to be around $125,000 each, minimum. That's $291M per year.

    * Total cost means: Salary + Benefits + Payroll Taxes + Office Space + Equipment + Training, etc. It's the real cost per employee to the company, not just their base salary. Anyone who has run a significant business knows that salary is often only about half of the total cost of an employee to the company.

    $100M/year is a gross underestimate.

    And if those workers were in Silicon Valley instead of Waterloo, you'd be looking at $200,000 per employee per year.
    Fair point, but again I don't think it would need to be a full subsidy, not only would that make it a lot more unrealistic as you've shown but would essentially mean BlackBerry users owning the software and the whole business model would need to change, that would probably need to involve shares or something as extra incentive which could bring in even more non BlackBerry10 people but I'm tangenting now...

    The question is how much money BlackBerry needs to break/even make a profit on BlackBerry10 devices or possibly not counting manufacturing costs but just continued os development, the bulk of the work arguably has been done (from 10.1 to 10.3) although ofcouse many of us would love to see more big changes (like 10.4-10.5) keeping the os in line with the latest and the best, which would need quite a bit of investment.

    Looking at is as a partial subsidy, and tying in things like bbm stickers, possibly even BES cloud, I think there is a feasible, even attractive version of this that gives value to both sides.

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-16 06:44 AM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Fair point, but again I don't think it would need to be a full subsidy, not only would that make it a lot more unrealistic as you've shown but would essentially mean BlackBerry users owning the software and the whole business model would need to change, that would probably need to involve shares or something as extra incentive which could bring in even more non BlackBerry10 people but I'm tangenting now...

    The question is how much money BlackBerry needs to break/even make a profit on BlackBerry10 devices or possibly not counting manufacturing costs but just continued os development, the bulk of the work arguably has been done (from 10.1 to 10.3) although ofcouse many of us would love to see more big changes (like 10.4-10.5) keeping the os in line with the latest and the best, which would need quite a bit of investment.

    Looking at is as a partial subsidy, and tying in things like bbm stickers, possibly even BES cloud, I think there is a feasible, even attractive version of this that gives value to both sides.

    Posted via CB10
    You many want to "think" it is feasible.... and you can continue to do so as there is never going to be anything to dissuade you. As BlackBerry is never even going to attempt it. If people won't pay enough to outright buy the phones to support BB10, there is no way they would make enough trying to separately sell new phones and keep BB10 going on some kind of subscription basis.
    JeepBB likes this.
    07-12-16 07:14 AM
  10. IndianTiwari's Avatar
    It's been discussed before on other threads ,no it won't works
    True it will not work at all.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    07-12-16 09:29 AM
  11. Kenny Bi's Avatar
    A person uses BB as the way he really want to do in his own. There are possibly many people think they should not have a cost for using BB each year just to improve their phones' OS, so it just a impossible theory. In this case, if we agree to pay for this cost, the total mount of money will not enough to support BB company keep running in stable way because the number of supporters is not huge.
    07-12-16 11:51 AM
  12. The_Passporter's Avatar
    I would but don't want to start going down that road.

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-16 12:13 PM
  13. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    If there are 5 million BB10 as primary device users left, and 1% of those would pay, that leaves 50,000 users. Let's say REAL development costs $100 million (which is too low), then that's a $2,000 annual subscription.

    Given that 50,000 users would never pay that much, the whole thing falls apart.
    I think your numbers are way off, it would be more at the 4 or 5 grand number and that does not include other costs to each APP vendor that would also be passed on..........bottom line is it would be a mess.
    07-12-16 12:19 PM
  14. conite's Avatar
    I think your numbers are way off, it would be more at the 4 or 5 grand number and that does not include other costs to each APP vendor that would also be passed on..........bottom line is it would be a mess.
    Agreed. I was throwing a bone to the sceptics. Although even after all that I was still accused of exaggerating.
    07-12-16 12:30 PM
  15. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    Agreed. I was throwing a bone to the sceptics. Although even after all that I was still accused of exaggerating.
    Ahhhhh the true believers....... i love my Passport but I also know I am on borrowed time. Let me ask you is HUB working better on the Priv yet? Close to OS 10? I ask Blaze but have not found out as of yet......HUB was a deal closer for me.
    07-12-16 12:34 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    Ahhhhh the true believers....... i love my Passport but I also know I am on borrowed time. Let me ask you is HUB working better on the Priv yet? Close to OS 10? I ask Blaze but have not found out as of yet......HUB was a deal closer for me.
    To me it has its pluses and minuses. I've gotten used to it and I find it works really well. It isn't always there like on bb10, but it can be opened with a quick swipe gesture in under half a second.
    07-12-16 12:37 PM
  17. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    To me it has its pluses and minuses. I've gotten used to it and I find it works really well. It isn't always there like on bb10, but it can be opened with a quick swipe gesture in under half a second.
    Thank you very much for the answer, I guess its time to move to the Priv......................if I can get it out of my sons hands........LOL
    IndianTiwari likes this.
    07-12-16 12:38 PM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    If there are 5 million BB10 as primary device users left, and 1% of those would pay, that leaves 50,000 users. Let's say REAL development costs $100 million (which is too low), then that's a $2,000 annual subscription.

    Given that 50,000 users would never pay that much, the whole thing falls apart.
    I don't think it's feasible, either. But I'm curious about your scope assumptions for $100M a year in development costs. What would that include?

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-16 04:12 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    I don't think it's feasible, either. But I'm curious about your scope assumptions for $100M a year in development costs. What would that include?

    Posted via CB10
    It was a guess, but one on the extreme low side. See Troy's post #20.
    07-12-16 04:16 PM
  20. cgk's Avatar
    However I would argue a slightly more possible scenario is for 500,000 to pay 200 a year (or) 17 a month, what would make this even better is if they sold this through carriers so that it was bundled through the sim
    Since nobody pays for mobile OSes, it would need to added value to the tune of 17 a month - pretty unlikely - you might get a few thousands but 500,000? no.
    07-12-16 04:57 PM
  21. Alberto8's Avatar
    Yes!

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-16 05:49 PM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It was a guess, but one on the extreme low side. See Troy's post #20.
    Thanks. Again, I don't think this is a viable option, but personally, I would only want to have the core OS and "essential" bundled apps maintained:

    OS (w/o Android run time)
    Hub
    Email
    SMS
    BBM
    Phone
    Browser
    Camera
    Remember
    Contacts
    Calendar
    Calculator
    Clock
    Maps
    LinkedIn (assuming APIs are maintained by MS)
    Twitter (assuming APIs are maintained)
    Etc.

    I don't know that it would take 1,000 employees to maintain the OS at that level. I suspect the number would be closer to 250. However, we're still talking about a skeleton crew to maintain and update current functionality MINUS the Android runtime, and without the costs of new hardware, R&D, or new driver development.

    In an absolute best case scenario, perhaps BlackBerry could break even for a year or two, but without new BB10 users, there would be zero upside.


    Posted via CB10
    07-12-16 05:49 PM
  23. blueburk's Avatar
    NO Way
    07-12-16 05:56 PM
  24. aha's Avatar
    How many BB fan complained about the price of Priv again?
    07-12-16 06:18 PM
  25. app_Developer's Avatar
    Thanks. Again, I don't think this is a viable option, but personally, I would only want to have the core OS and "essential" bundled apps maintained:

    OS (w/o Android run time)
    Hub
    Email
    SMS
    BBM
    Phone
    Browser
    Camera
    Remember
    Contacts
    Calendar
    Calculator
    Clock
    Maps
    LinkedIn (assuming APIs are maintained by MS)
    Twitter (assuming APIs are maintained)
    Etc.

    I don't know that it would take 1,000 employees to maintain the OS at that level. I suspect the number would be closer to 250. However, we're still talking about a skeleton crew to maintain and update current functionality MINUS the Android runtime, and without the costs of new hardware, R&D, or new driver development.

    In an absolute best case scenario, perhaps BlackBerry could break even for a year or two, but without new BB10 users, there would be zero upside.
    $100M is probably closer to 500-600 people, fully loaded. Aren't payroll taxes fairly high in Ontario?

    But you're right, the bigger issue is that with no new devices and no 3rd party apps, the sub revenue dries up over a couple of years anyway. How can anyone staff even a 250 person group qualified to do this work if every candidate with a brain and an Internet connection knows it's, at best, a 2 year gig. On average, probably 1 year.
    07-12-16 06:54 PM
104 1234 ...

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