06-17-17 05:19 PM
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  1. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    But BB10 isn't merely a UI. QNX doesn't have by itself ANY smartphone-related functionality except for the most basic file structure. It doesn't support making phone calls, cellular networking, WiFi, BlueTooth, NFC, Cameras, GPS, etc. etc. All of that was newly created for BB10, and is unique to BB10. Further, all of the supporting services were unique to BB10 (app development environments, APIs, BB World, Blend, etc.).

    The base of QNX is quite small and quite limited (by design - it's intended to be a lightweight base upon which to build custom embedded systems). Again, I'm not in any way disparaging it - it's a market leader for a reason - I'm just trying to make it clear for those who believe that BB10 is QNX with a UI slapped on top of it - that massively underestimates the work and functionality that was created for BB10 and overestimates what stock QNX can do out of the box.

    Likewise, BB has been creating lots of brand-new functionality on top of QNX for use in self-driving cars, and I'm sure the Radar was built on QNX but also that the bulk of that code was brand new and is specific to Radar.

    BB's stock is going up because the market sees real value in these products. Sure, there is competition, but these applications have always been more towards BB's niche than dealing with the consumer market and having to please millions of individual customers. BB has always been better focusing on a far smaller number of large customers, and on focusing on the needs of enterprise-level businesses rather than individual consumers. Finally, the window of opportunity is still open for these new lines of business, while the window for success in the smartphone platform effectively closed in 2009, even if it took a couple more years before that fact became crystal clear.

    BB has plenty of potential today - it's just that their potential exists in lines of business that people here don't care about, because they aren't consumer products.
    06-13-17 03:31 PM
  2. eshropshire's Avatar
    But BB10 isn't merely a UI. QNX doesn't have by itself ANY smartphone-related functionality except for the most basic file structure. It doesn't support making phone calls, cellular networking, WiFi, BlueTooth, NFC, Cameras, GPS, etc. etc. All of that was newly created for BB10, and is unique to BB10. Further, all of the supporting services were unique to BB10 (app development environments, APIs, BB World, Blend, etc.).

    The base of QNX is quite small and quite limited (by design - it's intended to be a lightweight base upon which to build custom embedded systems). Again, I'm not in any way disparaging it - it's a market leader for a reason - I'm just trying to make it clear for those who believe that BB10 is QNX with a UI slapped on top of it - that massively underestimates the work and functionality that was created for BB10 and overestimates what stock QNX can do out of the box.

    Likewise, BB has been creating lots of brand-new functionality on top of QNX for use in self-driving cars, and I'm sure the Radar was built on QNX but also that the bulk of that code was brand new and is specific to Radar.

    BB's stock is going up because the market sees real value in these products. Sure, there is competition, but these applications have always been more towards BB's niche than dealing with the consumer market and having to please millions of individual customers. BB has always been better focusing on a far smaller number of large customers, and on focusing on the needs of enterprise-level businesses rather than individual consumers. Finally, the window of opportunity is still open for these new lines of business, while the window for success in the smartphone platform effectively closed in 2009, even if it took a couple more years before that fact became crystal clear.

    BB has plenty of potential today - it's just that their potential exists in lines of business that people here don't care about, because they aren't consumer products.
    Tied to that consider how long it took BlackBerry to release BB10 after they purchased QNX. Took years and a very large group of engineers dedicated to the effort. QNX engineering was separate from BB10 then and remained separate during the process of developing BB10.

    I don't know why people seem to think QNX is a full mobile OS like Android and all BlackBerry did was add a skin.
    06-13-17 04:53 PM
  3. David Tyler's Avatar
    Wish in one hand and crap in the other. Which one fills first?
    Mom..? You're on CrackBerry?

    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    kbz1960 and BigBadWulf like this.
    06-13-17 05:00 PM
  4. kbz1960's Avatar
    Mom..? You're on CrackBerry?

    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    Mother knows lol
    Carjackd likes this.
    06-13-17 05:25 PM
  5. AlawiiAlQrsh's Avatar
    What about the opposite? I mean Its possible for blackberry to make their android os more like the bb10 system. Cant they ? Its open source afterall
    06-13-17 06:35 PM
  6. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    What about the opposite? I mean Its possible for blackberry to make their android os more like the bb10 system. Cant they ? Its open source afterall
    Opposite of what, are you referring to some previous post?
    Sure they could make their version of android more like BB10, but why would they?
    How would they justify the cost?
    06-13-17 06:59 PM
  7. moocan's Avatar
    Hello,

    I'm so sad too ... BB OS 10 is a great OS (more than of ten years of BB use after Windows Mobile nightmare) .. just simply working ... all out of the box without the needs of a ton of apps (office, pdf, gallery, ...), respecting your privacy ... and without ads !

    I have a Classic and 10.3.3 never come (Country, operator).

    I think that BB don't want to invest in development on BBOS due to financial decision and market share of android today.

    The best technology is not the one that still persists but the one that the majority of buyers, popular mass want ... sometimes due to ignorance ... but more often due to a fashion aspect.

    RIP BBOS

    Kr,
    Moo
    06-13-17 07:07 PM
  8. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    I think that BB don't want to invest in development on BBOS due to financial decision...
    Yes BlackBerry decided to stop investing in something that lost them billions of dollars.
    app_Developer likes this.
    06-13-17 07:59 PM
  9. DonHB's Avatar
    I don't know why people seem to think QNX is a full mobile OS like Android and all BlackBerry did was add a skin.
    I don't know why people seem to think that BlackBerry has no one skilled enough to work on BB10 or that the people brought along with the acquired companies have no applicable expertise.

    I also don't know why people think the functionality that was delivered on top of Neutrino in BB10 is not being used in other QNX offerings. Could the QNX offerings of Wireless Framework, Acoustics, Bluetooth and Apps and Media incorporate IP added to Neutrino to build BB10? This would mean that the people at BlackBerry are still working with code from BB10.

    Much of the functionality required by Hardware Root of Trust was recently incorporated into Snapdragon by Qualcomm. BlackBerry no longer needs to invest in hardware R & D when most manufacturers will be producing hardware that could run BB10 with updated boot firmware and the "injection" of secure keys during manufacturing as per Qualcomm's instructions (as with the KEYone). BlackBerry could pick the cream of the hardware crop and buy a run replacing Android with BB10 firmware during manufacturing.
    06-13-17 09:03 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    I don't know why people seem to think that BlackBerry has no one skilled enough to work on BB10 or that the people brought along with the acquired companies have no applicable expertise.

    I also don't know why people think the functionality that was delivered on top of Neutrino in BB10 is not being used in other QNX offerings. Could the QNX offerings of Wireless Framework, Acoustics, Bluetooth and Apps and Media incorporate IP added to Neutrino to build BB10? This would mean that the people at BlackBerry are still working with code from BB10.

    Much of the functionality required by Hardware Root of Trust was recently incorporated into Snapdragon by Qualcomm. BlackBerry no longer needs to invest in hardware R & D when most manufacturers will be producing hardware that could run BB10 with updated boot firmware and the "injection" of secure keys during manufacturing as per Qualcomm's instructions (as with the KEYone). BlackBerry could pick the cream of the hardware crop and buy a run replacing Android with BB10 firmware during manufacturing.
    Where have you been?

    There is absolutely, positively, zero business case to continue with BB10. None.

    Even if they wanted to (which they don't), and all this talent was transferable (which it isn't), and all the drivers existed for new hardware (which it doesn't), there would be NO return on investment.
    06-13-17 10:06 PM
  11. EFats's Avatar
    ...
    Even if they wanted to (which they don't), and all this talent was transferable (which it isn't), and all the drivers existed for new hardware (which it doesn't), there would be NO return on investment.
    I doubt that the drivers are not transferable. I believe in QNX's microkernel design is even the drivers run outside the kernel. Qualcomm 820Am chipset for automotive, which does contain the radio as far as I can tell, is supported on QNX 64-bit. With a similar OS architecture and identical hardware (I would bet the Am chipset is just certified to auto grade environmentals), there ought to be very little technical hurdles to bring it into BB10. As long as the hooks into the kernel are the same. You can either plunk the mobile phone bits on top of the new kernel or tweak the old one to have same interface.

    Is there a business case? Right now I highly doubt it. However, there should be if the other mobile phone guys are in the right state of mind. Google has been designing their phones for a while? Now Google has even hired away one of Apple's chief chip guy. It doesn't take a genius to figure out where this is going. Google's going to look a lot like Apple. If I were Sony, HTC, etc. I would be looking for a Plan B right now...
    Samsung potentially has Tizen in their pocket and LG has WebOS. Where does that leave everyone else? Only BB10 has enough existing ecosystem to have a shot at it.


    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    DonHB likes this.
    06-13-17 10:57 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    I doubt that the drivers are not transferable. I believe in QNX's microkernel design is even the drivers run outside the kernel. Qualcomm 820Am chipset for automotive, which does contain the radio as far as I can tell, is supported on QNX 64-bit. With a similar OS architecture and identical hardware (I would bet the Am chipset is just certified to auto grade environmentals), there ought to be very little technical hurdles to bring it into BB10. As long as the hooks into the kernel are the same. You can either plunk the mobile phone bits on top of the new kernel or tweak the old one to have same interface.

    Is there a business case? Right now I highly doubt it. However, there should be if the other mobile phone guys are in the right state of mind. Google has been designing their phones for a while? Now Google has even hired away one of Apple's chief chip guy. It doesn't take a genius to figure out where this is going. Google's going to look a lot like Apple. If I were Sony, HTC, etc. I would be looking for a Plan B right now...
    Samsung potentially has Tizen in their pocket and LG has WebOS. Where does that leave everyone else? Only BB10 has enough existing ecosystem to have a shot at it.


    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    No BB10 drivers exist for any SoC other than S4 and 801. It is far from trivial to obtain them.

    No third ecosystem will exist so long as developers don't want one. They are very happy coding two apps that hit 99.9% of the globe.
    06-13-17 11:06 PM
  13. DonHB's Avatar
    No BB10 drivers exist for any SoC other than S4 and 801. It is far from trivial to obtain them.

    No third ecosystem will exist so long as developers don't want one. They are very happy coding two apps that hit 99.9% of the globe.
    It is not a third "ecosystem", but a third code base.
    06-13-17 11:36 PM
  14. conite's Avatar
    It is not a third "ecosystem", but a third code base.
    One cannot survive without the other.
    06-13-17 11:41 PM
  15. Drenegade's Avatar
    Tied to that consider how long it took BlackBerry to release BB10 after they purchased QNX. Took years and a very large group of engineers dedicated to the effort. QNX engineering was separate from BB10 then and remained separate during the process of developing BB10.
    Which makes it such a tragedy that they are abandoning it. There's gotta be something useful they could do with all the work that was put in.


    Posted via CB10
    06-13-17 11:43 PM
  16. DonHB's Avatar
    I doubt that the drivers are not transferable. I believe in QNX's microkernel design is even the drivers run outside the kernel. Qualcomm 820Am chipset for automotive, which does contain the radio as far as I can tell, is supported on QNX 64-bit. With a similar OS architecture and identical hardware (I would bet the Am chipset is just certified to auto grade environmentals), there ought to be very little technical hurdles to bring it into BB10. As long as the hooks into the kernel are the same. You can either plunk the mobile phone bits on top of the new kernel or tweak the old one to have same interface.
    This needed to be repeated.

    Is there a business case? Right now I highly doubt it...
    Can't know without real inside numbers, but if hardware R & D and QA are removed (using a product already on the market using Snapdragon) and only software tweaking and QA remain the numbers have to look better.
    06-13-17 11:53 PM
  17. co4nd's Avatar
    Only BB10 has enough existing ecosystem to have a shot at it.


    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    I think Microsoft has more of an ecosystem than Blackberry. They have more money and resources too. Problem is most of their end products end up being kinda lame. Their phones have been disappointing but they still have a better market than BB10, Tizen, or WebOS combined.

    The other thing that makes it harder for MS to become a third platform is it is really tempting for them to just through in the towel and Concentrate on Servers, Analytics, Applications, and Development tools. Those are all pretty big and profitable markets for them.

    They have already made Office 365 available to iOS and Android, and Visual Studio can now create apps for iOS and Android. Microsofts embracing these two platforms makes it harder for any third phone platform to exist. Or at least any third platform that isn't Microsoft.
    Last edited by co4nd; 06-14-17 at 12:13 AM.
    06-13-17 11:57 PM
  18. dbmalloy's Avatar
    AH!!! gotta live dreamers....
    06-13-17 11:58 PM
  19. toneytone's Avatar
    I believe until an official announcement is made from BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    06-14-17 12:00 AM
  20. jefbeard911's Avatar
    I think Microsoft has more of an ecosystem than Blackberry. They have more money and resources too. Problem is most of their end products end up being kinda lame. Their phones have been disappointing but they still have a better market than BB10, Tizen, or WebOS combined.
    They definitely have more of an ecosystem than BlackBerry. No doubt about it. They also have the bucks to keep it going even when, for all intensive purposes, they have no mobile market share. I gotta give them credit for that.

    The problem I have with MS is that they keep starting over every few years and leave their long time users out in the cold. I loved the original WP7.5/metro Era and got a white Lumia 900 almost the day they shipped. But alas, I was kicked to the curb when they said my 6 month old Lumia would be obsolete when WP8 came out.

    At least BlackBerry hasn't made BB10 obsolete with a new OS and ecosystem.

    Posted via CB10
    06-14-17 12:08 AM
  21. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Which makes it such a tragedy that they are abandoning it. There's gotta be something useful they could do with all the work that was put in.
    I would like to hear your suggestions.
    Caveat, they have to generate ROI.
    06-14-17 12:16 AM
  22. kvndoom's Avatar
    I believe until an official announcement is made from BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm still waiting for OJ to find the real killer.
    Carjackd and DrBoomBotz like this.
    06-14-17 12:25 AM
  23. Drenegade's Avatar
    I would like to hear your suggestions.
    Caveat, they have to generate ROI.
    Oh I certainly don't have any reasonable suggestions that could realistically make them money. Theyre probably already negative 10 billion for BB10. I'm just a BB10 fanboy.

    Posted via CB10
    06-14-17 12:27 AM
  24. toneytone's Avatar
    I'm still waiting for OJ to find the real killer.
    He's paying his dues from behind bars while my BlackBerry and OS10 still receives updates alive and kicking.

    Posted via CB10
    06-14-17 12:41 AM
  25. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Oh I certainly don't have any reasonable suggestions that could realistically make them money. Theyre probably already negative 10 billion for BB10. I'm just a BB10 fanboy.

    Posted via CB10
    Not gonna weigh in on 1 and 3. I agree on 2.
    06-14-17 12:55 AM
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