[DrBoomBotz]

Total lie.

[snowsquirrel]

I have ignore BB news for about a year now, perfectly happy with my Z30. But was about to pick up a Passport SE when I stumbled across this thread.

As a former BB dev, I would have to agree, I no longer get emails telling me about BB10 dev sessions, etc. BB10 is better than anything out there, but it really doesn't matter if that app gap isn't closed. At this point the only way that gap gets closed is going Android. I would guess the only reason this move has not been announced is to not slow sales of current BB10 devices, and that if the slider does come out with BB10, it is simply because the Android solution wasn't ready for prime time yet.

To give android a BB10 feel would be great, but Android is a lot more resource hungry than BB10, so I am not looking forward to device slow down, and requiring beefy specs just to be able to run the OS. Also it would require a lot of changes to BB10-ize Android, meaning that the BB branch of Android would differ quite a bit. This means when new versions of android are released, the BB version releases will lag quite a bit as the official Android branch gets merged into the BB branch by BB. This goes for security updates too. (See the hell that Samsung users live with now.) Logistically it may not make sense, but I think it may be what is needed to recapture mind share of the public. I agree with points, that most Android manufacturers don't make money, but I am certain BB would not do an android version without a super secure QNX hyper visor meaning that it may be one of the first Android phones to get into places like the CIA, and be able to separate itself from the pack in that manner.

As someone who needs a new device this week, all of a sudden I feel like I am left twisting in the wind. I really liked my iOS devices, especially coming from BBOS6, but then I had an Android flagship and realised what not being locked into felt like. But by the time I got my Z10 at launch I was sick of Androids slow updates, disjointed UI, lack of desktop companion software, slow down, and ****ty default PIM apps. I am tempted to get the Passport SE anyway, but whatever I get I will need to use for the next two years. I really looked forwared to BB10 OS updates, and between the .x releases, there were some great strides. Buying a device know there will be no 10.4 doesn't seem that appealing. (BB devices have terrible resale value, so I would be lucky to get $150 for a SE a year from now).

While I know the Android stuff is almost all rumors at this point, there is just too many things pointing to this happening to ignore. When I think about my specific case, and think what could BB do to get me to buy a phone, it would be to come out and publicly admit the move to Android is coming, but that the Passport, and Slider will be able to upgrade to the BB-Android when it is launched. Then I would have no problem buying the Passport. But unfortunately I suspect this isn't happening because it isn't true.

[STV0726]

*Sigh*

Sorry BlackBerry, but I don't think I have it in me to give you "another shot" to start again with Android. I'm better off saving my money and not risking being screwed over and let down again.





-STV on Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.680

[deptech]

Maybe they're going to 11, surprise us all...they need some buzz in the Market...maybe just wishful thinking :-(

[snowsquirrel]

*Sigh*
Sorry BlackBerry, but I don't think I have it in me to give you "another shot" to start again with Android. I'm better off saving my money and not risking being screwed over and let down again.0

I assume the sigh is because "where do you turn to"? The fragmented, slugish, ****ty PIM, UI-mess that is Android? IOS doesn't have NFC, and a crippled bluetooth stack, which would prevent me from using a bunch of devices that I currently use with my BB the pathetic iCloud lock in. Windows Phone which is the same unsupported underdog game?

[Brandon Orr]

I have ignore BB news for about a year now, perfectly happy with my Z30. But was about to pick up a Passport SE when I stumbled across this thread.

As a former BB dev, I would have to agree, I no longer get emails telling me about BB10 dev sessions, etc. BB10 is better than anything out there, but it really doesn't matter if that app gap isn't closed. At this point the only way that gap gets closed is going Android. I would guess the only reason this move has not been announced is to not slow sales of current BB10 devices, and that if the slider does come out with BB10, it is simply because the Android solution wasn't ready for prime time yet.

To give android a BB10 feel would be great, but Android is a lot more resource hungry than BB10, so I am not looking forward to device slow down, and requiring beefy specs just to be able to run the OS. Also it would require a lot of changes to BB10-ize Android, meaning that the BB branch of Android would differ quite a bit. This means when new versions of android are released, the BB version releases will lag quite a bit as the official Android branch gets merged into the BB branch by BB. This goes for security updates too. (See the hell that Samsung users live with now.) Logistically it may not make sense, but I think it may be what is needed to recapture mind share of the public. I agree with points, that most Android manufacturers don't make money, but I am certain BB would not do an android version without a super secure QNX hyper visor meaning that it may be one of the first Android phones to get into places like the CIA, and be able to separate itself from the pack in that manner.

As someone who needs a new device this week, all of a sudden I feel like I am left twisting in the wind. I really liked my iOS devices, especially coming from BBOS6, but then I had an Android flagship and realised what not being locked into felt like. But by the time I got my Z10 at launch I was sick of Androids slow updates, disjointed UI, lack of desktop companion software, slow down, and ****ty default PIM apps. I am tempted to get the Passport SE anyway, but whatever I get I will need to use for the next two years. I really looked forwared to BB10 OS updates, and between the .x releases, there were some great strides. Buying a device know there will be no 10.4 doesn't seem that appealing. (BB devices have terrible resale value, so I would be lucky to get $150 for a SE a year from now).

While I know the Android stuff is almost all rumors at this point, there is just too many things pointing to this happening to ignore. When I think about my specific case, and think what could BB do to get me to buy a phone, it would be to come out and publicly admit the move to Android is coming, but that the Passport, and Slider will be able to upgrade to the BB-Android when it is launched. Then I would have no problem buying the Passport. But unfortunately I suspect this isn't happening because it isn't true.

This guy knows what's up

Posted via CB10

[ronpfid]

This guy knows what's up

Posted via CB10

Agreed, and I noticed, he said

I would guess the only reason this move has not been announced is to not slow sales of current BB10 devices,

Which is what I also was surmising on page 3

I think Chen is just trying to not say anything yet so they can sell off current phone inventory for cash flow, .......

[ghz]

I think Chen is just trying to not say anything yet so they can sell off current phone inventory for cash flow, .......

And now a pretty long (2 wks) sale in ShopBlackBerry with moderate (15-20%) discounts only on BB10 devices, the ones not really sold to corporate customers. The pattern is quite obvious: speeding up sales and flushing BlackBerry's own devices inventory, generating some cash even by lowering margins on higher cost devices. Seems that HW has/had an awful quarter again - Q2 closes on the 31st Aug.

[John Vieira]

Looks like i'm going the Jolla phone way if BlackBerry will actually ditch bb10

This is not a political sig, vatniks

I'd love a Jolla phone, but the current model doesn't work on my carrier.

Maybe a later model will.

FML

[STV0726]

I assume the sigh is because "where do you turn to"? The fragmented, slugish, ****ty PIM, UI-mess that is Android? IOS doesn't have NFC, and a crippled bluetooth stack, which would prevent me from using a bunch of devices that I currently use with my BB the pathetic iCloud lock in. Windows Phone which is the same unsupported underdog game?

My secondary phone is a Nexus 5 straight from Google. It isn't bad. I like it at times. There are some things I prefer on it, mostly relating to apps, which has nothing to do with the actual BB10 OS.

I'm mentally preparing to migrate over. I mean, both devices are set up and ready to be used as a primary phone. But I have all password keeper and authenticator stuff on my BlackBerry due to security...

Pure Android is the only other ecosystem I can stomach. No Apple, no Windows 10 underdog redux and certainly no skinned Android.

-STV on Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2339

[Alain_A]

Silver edition Passport heading back to digital river right now.

So is mine...tomorrow

[Alain_A]

Windows Phone which is the same unsupported underdog game?

Are you sure about that??????????

[snowsquirrel]

Are you sure about that??????????

No I am not actually, I haven't paid enough attention. I do see they only have a tiny marketshare like BB. But as a professional developer who has worked with everything (mobile, console games, enterprise, web, desktop), I will say a huge thing WP has going for it is their development tools. Heads and tails above the rest. Apple is 2nd, BB and Android likely tied, but I would give edge to Android because of language choice. Don't get me wrong I love C++, and it is the fastest of all the primary languages, but the most difficult to develop applications with.

I personally have two half finished BB10 apps, that I just quit working on, because I was doing them for fun, and working with C++ and Qt just felt too much like work. Not that .Net is open source, would have been sweet if BB had built a .net layer into BB10 so devs could write native apps using .net.

As someone who is in charge of a lot of junior developers, I can tell you that I C++ plus junior dev means lots of bugs. Junior dev and C# will result in way less bugs. The .Net API for C# is much richer than C++ and Qt. I say all this, because it should be easier for companies to do native ports to WP than other platforms, and it may even be the lead platform for some just because of the tools.

All this is a long winded rant to say, devs like working on WP, especially if it can gain enough market share for them to make money. I would buy a WP, but the WP hardware is always so boring.

[Easypants]

that's what bothers me, they don't give us a direction, something to look forward to. In all honesty, the way my Z30 works right now on 10.3 is NOT even close to good enough. Besides the hardware's lack of call volume, the OS just isn't good enough yet, and if this is it then it's 'in the drawer' time for it. I know people complain about android and IOS, but when you use a current device like that and get used to all the features, then when I used my Z30, it's like going from HDtv over satelite to a 1980's TV with an antenna.

This is the opposite of my experience. I had the experia Z3 on lollipop and found it horrible.

Moving back to BB10 has been a revelation. Its the top OS outcome there. I believe dome independent evaluations have come to the same conclusion.

Posted via CB10

[Superdupont 2_0]

To me 10.3 is a totally matured OS, which still has some issues with S/MIME and PGP, but it is certainly not less mature than iOS 8 or Android 5.

Now, I fully understand that BlackBerry wants to make money in the SAAS business, so they must focus on Android and iOS.
I am not surprised that they are aggressively doing R&D and new developments with Android, the most popular OS on the planet.

But I still hope that they will revive BB 10 development once the turnaround has been made during 2016/2017.
BB 10 is just too good to be discontinued.

[Thunderbuck]

The writing definitely seems to be on the wall.

I love my Passport for what it does now, though, and I'm pretty sure it will get me through another year or two. Might even get the SE when it's obvious the platform is going EOL and the prices drop.

Not worth losing sleep over.

Posted from CB10 on my classy Passport--TBUCK64

[Alain_A]

The writing definitely seems to be on the wall.

I love my Passport for what it does now, though, and I'm pretty sure it will get me through another year or two. Might even get the SE when it's obvious the platform is going EOL and the prices drop.

Not worth losing sleep over.

Posted from CB10 on my classy Passport--TBUCK64

how about lasting more than that....Especially a phone at that price

[ronpfid]

Here is something that bugs me,
Blackberry has been around forever
BB OS 10 has been out since 2013
Everyone says they were too late in the game compared to Android and IOS to catch up
But now we have Jolla with Sailfish OS just coming out
Tizen is just coming out
They are much later than Blackberry "to the game"
If one or both of them makes it, that'll be annoying that OS10 couldn't make it being 2+ years ahead and having BB's experience level

[Bluenoser63]

Here is something that bugs me,
Blackberry has been around forever
BB OS 10 has been out since 2013
Everyone says they were too late in the game compared to Android and IOS to catch up
But now we have Jolla with Sailfish OS just coming out
Tizen is just coming out
They are much later than Blackberry "to the game"
If one or both of them makes it, that'll be annoying that OS10 couldn't make it being 2+ years ahead and having BB's experience level

Jolla exited the hardware business. Which hardware manufacture has agreed to install Sailfish OS?

[ronpfid]

Jolla exited the hardware business. Which hardware manufacture has agreed to install Sailfish OS?

Ah didn't know that, so the Jolla is already out of the game? I had seen this
https://jolla.com/jolla/

But, still my main point though, if others can try to enter the game in 2015, it bothers me blackberry 10 might not make it

[paulwallace1234]

Ah didn't know that, so the Jolla is already out of the game? I had seen this
https://jolla.com/jolla/

But, still my main point though, if others can try to enter the game in 2015, it bothers me blackberry 10 might not make it

They split the two businesses, they didn't stop hardware

[snowsquirrel]

Never say never, but.... it is extremely unlikely that any newcomer 'makes it'. Best case is some FOSS OS can be installed on rooted android devices. But it would be niche, as it woudl require people who are actually concerned about privacy enough to not want Android on their phones, and technical enough to be able to do the install themselves, _and_ not really want any mainstream apps. The general rule is that to disrupt a market your product can't just be better than the best, it needs to be an order of magnitude better than the most popular. Putting my BB10 love aside, hard to imagine what twice as good would even look like at this point.

I really think two things prevented the success of BB10: 1. App Gap - a viable Androit RT came too late, and still isn't perfect. 2. BB always went with 'good specs'. If you want hype on the front pages of mobile news sites, you need to have quanta-gigular processors, and terabytes of ram, pentabyte pixel cameras, etc.

People rag on the marketing, but marketing only drives people to look at your product. You need need the two above things to actually engage them.

[ronpfid]

So odds are, these two new 'guys' won't really make it either then?
This means, unless someone comes out with some super freaky futuristic OS, then Android and IOS will dominate for many years...

[snowsquirrel]

I don't claim to be an oracle, but I would say yes to both with 90% certainty. I would _love_ to be wrong.

If BB10 did go tits up, it would be really sweet if the open sourced it, so that it may live on.

[Bluenoser63]

I don't claim to be an oracle, but I would say yes to both with 90% certainty. I would _love_ to be wrong.

If BB10 did go tits up, it would be really sweet if the open sourced it, so that it may live on.

BB10 will never be open sourced. Wish I was wrong. Too much IP included in the source.