1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I decided I'd try loading some basic Android apps on my Z10 to experiment with a possible switch to an Android phone, specifically the Priv.

    I only installed a couple, including the Amazon Prime Music app.

    Then I noticed a truly horrible performance degradation, compared to my usually zippy BB10 experience, and I noticed that none of the Amazon Apps actually closed, despite my "long pressing" them to close them.

    My question is whether this is
    1. A general issue with the BB10 Android runtime
    2. A general issue with some or all Android apps
    3. An amazon issue, with their apps running in the background all the time intentionally.

    Any help is appreciated. Not being able to easily and intuitively close any third-party app I choose is a deal-breaker for me.

    Posted via CB10
    02-08-16 01:19 AM
  2. acovey's Avatar
    I think there are some threads about the Android run time issues in the later releases of BB10. I can't verify as I have NO Android apps on my Classic.
    02-08-16 01:30 AM
  3. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I think there are some threads about the Android run time issues in the later releases of BB10. I can't verify as I have NO Android apps on my Classic.
    I've only seen issues with uninstalling Android apps, and I think only on more recent releases than I'm running (10.3.2.556)

    Posted via CB10
    02-08-16 01:34 AM
  4. acovey's Avatar
    I've only seen issues with uninstalling Android apps, and I think only on more recent releases than I'm running (10.3.2.556)

    Posted via CB10
    Sorry that's all I can think of as I have no experience with Android on any phone. My wife's Samsung seems to operate OK but new apps keep appearing?
    02-08-16 01:46 AM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    So, I spent some time in App settings, and turned off "run when minimized" permissions, but I can't control any other permissions for the Amazon app, Amazon Music app, or the Amazon App Store app.

    I also can't uninstall either the Amazon App or the Amazon App Store app. I can uninstall the Amazon Music app.

    So, after turning off the "run when minimized" permissions, I was able to properly close all three apps using BlackBerry Virtual Expert.

    So, now I guess I can simply not open those apps, and since they won't run minimized, they should not ever load, correct?

    Also, I'm happy to report that all performance issues were resolved by shutting down the Android runtime apps. Whew!



    Posted via CB10
    02-08-16 02:23 AM
  6. Emaderton3's Avatar
    So, I spent some time in App settings, and turned off "run when minimized" permissions, but I can't control any other permissions for the Amazon app, Amazon Music app, or the Amazon App Store app.

    I also can't uninstall either the Amazon App or the Amazon App Store app. I can uninstall the Amazon Music app.

    So, after turning off the "run when minimized" permissions, I was able to properly close all three apps using BlackBerry Virtual Expert.

    So, now I guess I can simply not open those apps, and since they won't run minimized, they should not ever load, correct?

    Also, I'm happy to report that all performance issues were resolved by shutting down the Android runtime apps. Whew!



    Posted via CB10
    Where in Virtual Expert can you do this?

    Posted via CB10
    02-08-16 09:18 PM
  7. albertinik's Avatar
    Because you are carrying a BlackBerry device.



    Posted via CB10
    02-08-16 10:50 PM
  8. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Where in Virtual Expert can you do this?

    Posted via CB10
    Device Monitor ==> long press each app and choose "Close"

    Posted via CB10
    02-08-16 11:55 PM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Because you are carrying a BlackBerry device.
    Are you saying that Android apps are always easy to close completely on Android phones?


    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by bb10adopter111; 02-09-16 at 11:42 AM.
    02-09-16 12:00 AM
  10. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Device Monitor ==> long press each app and choose "Close"

    Posted via CB10
    OK, that's in the OS. Virtual Manager is a separate app, so I was confused.

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-16 07:58 AM
  11. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    OK, that's in the OS. Virtual Manager is a separate app, so I was confused.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes. I find it easier to access that functionality from BBVA, but it's core OS functionality.

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-16 11:44 AM
  12. conite's Avatar
    I think we can all acknowledge that Cobalt is the expert here with regard to the Android Runtime. This is what he had to say about this issue:


    "Oh I love this question about Android apps eating up battery in the background. What I'm telling you now is backed up by the Blackberry Developer Site and is valid for ANY Android app on your device:

    From the Blackberry developer docs about the Blackberry Android runtime (Jelly Bean):
    Apps can run services only while the user runs them, either in full screen or in thumbnail mode.
    https://developer.blackberry.com/and..._software.html

    What does that mean? The Blackberry Android runtime does NOT allow Android apps to run any services in the background. Period. As soon as the screen goes off (battery saving mode, sleep mode), ANY Android app will stop working in the background. A good example to explain this may be light in your fridge. Everytime you open the door of your fridge, the light is on, right? So we must assume, that the light in the fridge is permanently on? No, it's not. It's triggered when you open the door and it goes off when you close the door.

    The only way to get an Android app to run permanently in the background is to implement Blackberry Headless mode. This must be requested from blackberry, and usually those apps are then ONLY avaliable on Blackberry World as a ported Android app (an example is Skype). All other Android apps that you download from anywhere else do NOT incorporate Headless mode and CANNOT run in the background.

    Now I already hear all the "specialists" that are saying "Hey, but I'm running task manager xyz and there are a lot of services running on my device and I cleaned them and now everything is great"

    Well, that simply isn't true. Running a task manager app is just like opening the door on the fridge. The light is now on. But if you close the taskmanager and the device goes to sleep, all services are stopped again.

    The second thing that you should know about background services is, that against the common believe, they do not RUN in the background. They register a trigger in the Android runtime. The registering service itself is not running. Now if the Android runtime receives an Intent, it will look if a services was registered for the intent and THEN will start the service. The service will do its work (i.e. sync data) and then close again. On a Blackberry device, this will only happen if:

    a) The device is NOT in sleepmode
    b) The app is open OR running in an active Frame

    If those conditions are not met, nothing happens. No services is started."
    KemKev likes this.
    02-09-16 12:01 PM
  13. KemKev's Avatar
    conite, thanks for posting that bit from Cobalt; it sure is good to know. I do consider his opinion on these matters more authoritative than those of some of the other resident "specialists" and "experts"
    02-09-16 12:12 PM
  14. Emaderton3's Avatar
    I trust cobalt too, but they drain battery unless you force kill them.

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-16 12:47 PM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Thanks, Conite. I also trust Cobalt's analysis. And yet, I can reproduce a very consistent performance impact, both in terms of battery consumption and responsiveness for Android apps that still show as open in the device manager after I have long pressed to close them.

    I suspect the issue is simply the MEMORY that must be allocated to maintain the state information for the open apps.

    So, my original issue remains the same. Device manager clearly shows open Android apps after I have attempted to close them, and where there is no active frame, and these apps consume CPU and Battery, according to the BB10 OS reports, whether they are doing anything or not.

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-16 01:40 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    Thanks, Conite. I also trust Cobalt's analysis. And yet, I can reproduce a very consistent performance impact, both in terms of battery consumption and responsiveness for Android apps that still show as open in the device manager after I have long pressed to close them.

    I suspect the issue is simply the MEMORY that must be allocated to maintain the state information for the open apps.

    So, my original issue remains the same. Device manager clearly shows open Android apps after I have attempted to close them, and where there is no active frame, and these apps consume CPU and Battery, according to the BB10 OS reports, whether they are doing anything or not.

    Posted via CB10
    I suppose some of these Android apps are playing loose with triggers, and forcing the Runtime to deal with them at very short intervals.

    I know Cobalt was able to reduce battery consumption from his modified Play Store app by setting update checks to longer intervals.

    I guess the app does what the app does, and there is only a "take it or leave it" option for us users.
    02-09-16 01:55 PM
  17. Cobalt232's Avatar
    A perfect answer, Conite The triggers must be set in a hilarious way so that the runtime is forced to wake up the app again and again. Bad programming.
    02-10-16 01:47 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    A perfect answer, Conite The triggers must be set in a hilarious way so that the runtime is forced to wake up the app again and again. Bad programming.
    I'm interested in how "push" notifications work.

    For instance, with Kik instant messenger, I receive instantaneous notifications even when the app is closed.

    Does that mean Kik has somehow instructed the Runtime to monitor and display these notifications in real time?
    02-10-16 08:28 AM

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