10-01-17 11:33 PM
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  1. MPdeH's Avatar
    I had thos conversation today with my colleague. He was also a big BlackBerry fan, but he switched to iPhone after BlackBerry switched to Android.

    I was also disappointed but I made the switch and I am OK with Android now despite still feeling that BlackBerry 10 is still so much superior compared to both Android and iOS.

    So we were just speculating how great BlackBerry 10 could have been if it was still fully supported. And it made us wonder, why isn't BlackBerry 10 able to Co exist besides Android. BlackBerry could still make the software, and TCL could make the hardware. They could make a 'normal' Android version of their phones for the consumers, and a 'pro' version for the prosumers and businesses looking for the most secure smartphones.

    I know it's just speculative, but how awesome would this have been? I still love BlackBerry 10. I recently fired up my Z10 and it still works like a charm. I bet you can't say that about you iPhone 5 or Nexus 4...
    09-27-17 06:02 PM
  2. The Commander's Avatar
    BlackBerry 10 can't go on without the major apps. Look at Microsoft. They spent like 20 billion dollars on Windows 8 and 10 phones in marketing and hardware and software. And what happened? A dead on arrival phone. BlackBerry rather spend thier resources on something else that they know will make money.
    09-27-17 06:26 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    The BB10 exercise cost BlackBerry billions of dollars.

    To keep BB10 alive, with only bare minimum development, would cost 100,000 users no less than $5000 a year each + hardware.

    Oh, and the Android Runtime would have to be stripped out due to OHA rules.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-27-17 06:33 PM
  4. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    BB didn't move to Android until AFTER BB10 had already proven to be a failure in the market and had lost about $10 billion for BB.

    And to move to Android meant licensing Google Mobile Services and the Play Store - which are NOT open source or free, and which Google owns - and the license prohibits licensees from forking Android or being involved with forked Android in any way (and the BB10 Runtime is correctly considered to be a fork), so BB10 could have only continued if the Android Runtime was ripped out and all of the holes fixed - likely a year-long project that would have cost further hundreds of millions - and then you'd be left with an aging browser and the subset of apps in BB World that aren't Android conversions (many big-name app in BB World are really Android apps and require the Runtime to work).

    How would they have paid for any of that, and how many phones could they have sold?

    Remember that Chen's own numbers said that they needed to be able to sell 10M BB10 phones per year to break even, and the closest they ever got was about 4M in 2013. That's why they lost so much money on BB10.
    BigAl_BB9900 and john_v like this.
    09-27-17 07:28 PM
  5. markmall's Avatar
    BB didn't move to Android until AFTER BB10 had already proven to be a failure in the market and had lost about $10 billion for BB.

    And to move to Android meant licensing Google Mobile Services and the Play Store - which are NOT open source or free, and which Google owns - and the license prohibits licensees from forking Android or being involved with forked Android in any way (and the BB10 Runtime is correctly considered to be a fork), so BB10 could have only continued if the Android Runtime was ripped out and all of the holes fixed - likely a year-long project that would have cost further hundreds of millions - and then you'd be left with an aging browser and the subset of apps in BB World that aren't Android conversions (many big-name app in BB World are really Android apps and require the Runtime to work).

    How would they have paid for any of that, and how many phones could they have sold?

    Remember that Chen's own numbers said that they needed to be able to sell 10M BB10 phones per year to break even, and the closest they ever got was about 4M in 2013. That's why they lost so much money on BB10.
    Do you really trust John Chan? Plus he lowered that number (10M) at least one time and he lowered it by large amount so I don't think it is reliable. Does 5 million sound familiar?

    You guys are talking again like you are authoritative when all this is is your opinions. My personal opinion is that there is a large enough niche market to make these phones without spending a lot of money. Blackberry is spent almost nothing developing the OS for the last three years. It continues to run very stable and better than its competitors. There is just too much potential to let it die out. Governmental agencies and businesses that want their employees to have a dedicated phone for work that is not used for recreation could choose BB10. Or people that do not need social apps or have an extra android phone for them could choose BB10.

    Posted via CB10
    Ranadeep Roy and dmlis like this.
    09-27-17 11:02 PM
  6. toneytone's Avatar
    It's probably financially doable to keep both OS's but losing that much money on bb10 has left a bad taste in BlackBerrys mouth for sure. At this point we could only hope and pray that somehow BlackBerry is able to have more control over android in the near future.

    Posted via CB10
    dmlis likes this.
    09-27-17 11:14 PM
  7. app_Developer's Avatar
    Do you really trust John Chan? Plus he lowered that number (10M) at least one time and he lowered it by large amount so I don't think it is reliable. Does 5 million sound familiar?

    You guys are talking again like you are authoritative when all this is is your opinions. My personal opinion is that there is a large enough niche market to make these phones without spending a lot of money. Blackberry is spent almost nothing developing the OS for the last three years. It continues to run very stable and better than its competitors. There is just too much potential to let it die out. Governmental agencies and businesses that want their employees to have a dedicated phone for work that is not used for recreation could choose BB10. Or people that do not need social apps or have an extra android phone for them could choose BB10.
    So issue new phones with the old SoC that nobody makes anymore? And a browser that continues to deteriorate? How many true believers are left to buy such a thing?

    Governments and enterprises could have bought BB10 phones years ago. They didn't (other than maybe some appreciable number in Canada) So why would they suddenly buy these now?
    BigAl_BB9900 and john_v like this.
    09-27-17 11:24 PM
  8. Emaderton3's Avatar
    So issue new phones with the old SoC that nobody makes anymore? And a browser that continues to deteriorate? How many true believers are left to buy such a thing?

    Governments and enterprises could have bought BB10 phones years ago. They didn't (other than maybe some appreciable number in Canada) So why would they suddenly buy these now?
    Instead, they chose BYOD.

    Posted via CB10
    09-27-17 11:25 PM
  9. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Do you really trust John Chan? Plus he lowered that number (10M) at least one time and he lowered it by large amount so I don't think it is reliable. Does 5 million sound familiar?
    He only lowered the number once BB started selling Android phones, and that 5M represented the new total number of phones (which, since BB10 had already been terminated and developers released, meant that the phones would increasingly be Android with FAR lower R&D costs) that BB needed to sell per year to stay in the hardware business. Obviously that didn't happen, and they left the business.


    You guys are talking again like you are authoritative when all this is is your opinions. My personal opinion is that there is a large enough niche market to make these phones without spending a lot of money. Blackberry is spent almost nothing developing the OS for the last three years.
    The difference between your opinions and ours is that we've been giving you numbers and quotes and all kinds of other evidence for years, and you've been ignoring it for years without showing us any realistic numbers to back up your opinion. Plus, on our side, BB THEMSELVES HAVE LEFT THE BUSINESS.

    It continues to run very stable and better than its competitors. There is just too much potential to let it die out.
    BB10's stability is only going to increase and increase... because fewer and fewer apps will be available for it, and soon it's just going to be a phone, text, and email device. Here's a hint: the few people on the planet who would be happy with such a limited device aren't nearly enough to pay for it's continued existence.

    Governmental agencies and businesses that want their employees to have a dedicated phone for work that is not used for recreation could choose BB10. Or people that do not need social apps or have an extra android phone for them could choose BB10.
    Government and enterprise have been issuing (mostly) iPhones for the last 5 years or so, and they're doing just fine. There was almost zero adoption of BB10 outside of Canada, and those that did adopt it dumped it. None of those entities are beating down BB's door or begging for BB10 to be continued - they moved on long ago. It's only in the minds of a few die-hards that that's not the case.

    You like to ignore any facts that are inconvenient for your argument, so there's not much point in debating with you. We've tried... LOL. But if you have some real numbers for us, I'm sure we'd find it entertaining to read them.
    09-28-17 12:20 AM
  10. kvndoom's Avatar
    OP, if TCL wanted to make BB10 phones, they would have licensed it. NOBODY has licensed it because NOBODY has found a way to make it profitable. No company is going to assume that risk if there is no foreseeable path to profitable ROI. They licensed the BB brand of Android because they felt that they could sell phones and make a profit.
    deremi and glwerry like this.
    09-28-17 08:30 AM
  11. bobshine's Avatar
    Why are we still talking about this???? OP, ask yourself this question: beside Android and iOS, how many mobile OS is there out that that is actively supported and independent?

    Zero!

    The reason is that it cost a fortune to do so. What makes you think that BB can do it an that no one else can?

    And guys don’t talk about government... Governments are just gonna look for an alternative, like iOS. They had been moving to iOS a long time ago, way before BB10
    john_v likes this.
    09-28-17 08:37 AM
  12. pavlos46's Avatar
    TIZEN and it's growing, and you are extremely shortsighted.

    Even now if BB had introduced a decent device, even without ART, developers and people alike would have loved it.

    Imagine if Samsung invested in BB10 instead of TIZEN....

    BB management has dropped the ball big time, no denying.

    Heck I am still using a 5 year device and it's solid (z30)...

    Pavlos
    anon(8679041) likes this.
    09-28-17 10:07 AM
  13. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Even now if BB had introduced a decent device, even without ART, developers and people alike would have loved it.

    Imagine if Samsung invested in BB10 instead of TIZEN....
    That’s quite a lot of baseless speculation with absolutely zero hard evidence to back it up.
    mbirth, john_v, deremi and 1 others like this.
    09-28-17 10:12 AM
  14. pavlos46's Avatar
    What is baseless that TIZEN exists, or that is in every smart watch Samsung has introduced so far or that every year they put out a new phone, or no that they have a TIZEN developers forum every year.

    Hahaha your so funny.
    anon(8679041) likes this.
    09-28-17 10:17 AM
  15. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    What is baseless that TIZEN exists, or that is in every smart watch Samsung has introduced so far or that every year they put out a new phone, or no that they have a TIZEN developers forum every year.
    What does any of that have to do with BB10’s failure? How would any resources put into Tizen have saved BB10?
    09-28-17 10:29 AM
  16. glwerry's Avatar
    TIZEN and it's growing, and you are extremely shortsighted.

    Even now if BB had introduced a decent device, even without ART, developers and people alike would have loved it.

    Imagine if Samsung invested in BB10 instead of TIZEN....

    BB management has dropped the ball big time, no denying.

    Heck I am still using a 5 year device and it's solid (z30)...

    Pavlos
    Since you're so obviously smarter than all of BB's management, why don't YOU put YOUR money where your mouth is and licence / market BB10 and show us how it's done?

    TIZEN is "growing" - what portion of the market does it have?

    I just cannot agree with the statement "Even now if BB had introduced a decent device, even without ART, developers and people alike would have loved it.". THE INDUSTRY WAS GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO LICENCE BB10 AND NOBODY TOOK THEM UP ON IT!
    Many significant app developers have abandoned the platform. That, in itself, speaks to the DEAD nature of the platform. IT AIN'T COMING BACK, FOLKS!
    john_v likes this.
    09-28-17 10:35 AM
  17. pavlos46's Avatar
    TIZEN has less marketshare than BB10 right now, but Samsung understands the deadlock of ios and android and is slowly and under the radar keeping it alive for a reason. Google will become Apple and then TIZEN will rise.

    BB10 has never failed, the company has failed it, it was a classic overachievers sales managers taking you under.

    My personal view of course .
    09-28-17 10:46 AM
  18. kvndoom's Avatar
    My personal view of course .
    Whew, now that we've clarified where these indisputable facts came from, we can move forward with the discussion.
    deremi and john_v like this.
    09-28-17 10:57 AM
  19. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    BB10 has never failed, the company has failed it, it was a classic overachievers sales managers taking you under.
    [citation needed]
    john_v likes this.
    09-28-17 11:03 AM
  20. pavlos46's Avatar
    Oh ok if that makes you happy then fine.
    09-28-17 11:08 AM
  21. glwerry's Avatar

    BB10 has never failed, the company has failed it, it was a classic overachievers sales managers taking you under.
    A meaningless distinction.
    It doesn't matter whether Hitler's madness failed his armies or whether his armies failed Hitler. They lost the war.

    Maybe TIZEN will rise - it's of no consequence to me. In 18 months my phone contract will be up and I will have to evaluate whether to keep my PRIV or whether there's another PKB device on the marketplace. I will look first at BB, just because I'm a fan.

    If TIZEN is on the market and can support certain critical apps then I will consider it, but my primary consideration will be the presence of a PKB. I can live with iOS if I have to and I will be happy if I have to stay with Android.
    09-28-17 11:09 AM
  22. pavlos46's Avatar
    A meaningless distinction.
    It doesn't matter whether Hitler's madness failed his armies or whether his armies failed Hitler. They lost the war.

    Maybe TIZEN will rise - it's of no consequence to me. In 18 months my phone contract will be up and I will have to evaluate whether to keep my PRIV or whether there's another PKB device on the marketplace. I will look first at BB, just because I'm a fan.

    If TIZEN is on the market and can support certain critical apps then I will consider it, but my primary consideration will be the presence of a PKB. I can live with iOS if I have to and I will be happy if I have to stay with Android.
    Very true, although I can't live with the nazi metaphor although I get the idea.
    09-28-17 11:13 AM
  23. glwerry's Avatar
    Very true, although I can't live with the nazi metaphor although I get the idea.
    Substitute the Americans in Vietnam - that might be an even better one - the armed forces hobbled by politicians.
    Note that I wasn't comparing BB management to Nazis, just using the outcome of the war as the example.
    09-28-17 11:18 AM
  24. bobshine's Avatar
    TIZEN and it's growing, and you are extremely shortsighted.

    Even now if BB had introduced a decent device, even without ART, developers and people alike would have loved it.

    Imagine if Samsung invested in BB10 instead of TIZEN....

    BB management has dropped the ball big time, no denying.

    Heck I am still using a 5 year device and it's solid (z30)...

    Pavlos
    What are you talking about? Samsung is behind Tizen... and with all the cash and the marketing power Samsung has, their maker share is minuscule.

    And you’re saying that that’s proof that BB10 could have survived? 🤦*♂️
    09-28-17 04:30 PM
  25. Esteban Fuentes BB10's Avatar
    Estimados seguidores de blackberry 10, la verdad hoy en día blackberry 10, tiene mucho que aportar a los clientes que prefieren su software propio de la marca 10!!.
    recordemos un poco, primero fue la escaces de aplicaciones y luego lo personalizado, a que me refiero¿? muchos esperamos que blackberry quedara a la altura de los demás dispositivos como por ejemplo: las app de contactos, bbm, twitter, facebook, calendario, gps, que fueran mejoradas en aspecto mas modernos, en resumidas cuentas, las mismas aplicaciones nativas de blackberry en versión android hubieran sido de blackberry 10, que la foto de perfil fuera redondeada mas personalizada, No con aspecto cuadrado que llame a lo obsoleto

    El Hub, cuando uno utiliza una aplicación android y llega una notificación aparece una (campanita) que no se puede ni personalizar con ella, cuando esperábamos que por lo menos apareciera el Icono de la aplicación a la cual pertenece la notificación

    En configuracion hubieramos agregado la opción de personalizar todos los iconos a un solo tamaño con alguna forma redondeada como actualmente lo hace samsung con sus dispositivos.

    a hora felizitaciones a los creadores de Google Play Store 10, ya que es buena aplicacion nativa para acceder a los miles de App android.

    Mis Saludos.
    Last edited by Esteban Fuentes BB10; 09-28-17 at 06:20 PM.
    09-28-17 06:01 PM
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