12-29-15 04:04 PM
40 12
tools
  1. Old_Mil's Avatar
    Good read. In the end, mismanagement killed the platform. But that is what you get when you hire a vision less bean counter as a turnaround expert.
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    10-23-15 05:54 AM
  2. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Good read. In the end, mismanagement killed the platform. But that is what you get when you hire a vision less bean counter as a turnaround expert.
    If Chen had a vision, he would come to his going Android decision much sooner. If he had a vision he would have realised that the tool belt was not going to save the Classic or that the world didn't need a short but wide phone. He would have realised that a cheap Android all touch would out sell an expensive PRIV by quite a margin. If he had a vision he would have foreseen the debacle the Amazon app store has become.

    Posted via CB10
    10-23-15 09:23 AM
  3. amit kafle's Avatar
    Due to apps.

    Posted via CB10
    10-23-15 09:58 AM
  4. ShowMoe's Avatar
    Google bought blackberry a long lOoooong time ago don't think about it too much

    Posted via CB10
    10-23-15 10:08 PM
  5. DonHB's Avatar
    Why to write this?
    ...and I want to track down the way BB10 has gone from the start till now and to share some thoughts on different aspects of BB10 developement so you can better understand why BlackBerry has so weak app ecosystem.
    While I still hope it is early for a postmortem, I think that primarily you are right about focus, but I think choice is a good thing and Blackberry should have aimed to deliver to developers' choice over time.

    Initially, the iPhone only supported web technologies for development and it took several generations for the development kits to mature. Similarly, Blackberry should have focused on existing technology to gain market share. They should have delivered an up-to-date Android runtime that provided the full BB10 user experience running on QNX. At the time that the Z10 was released the use of Google Mobile Services in apps were much less prevalent making this a feasible goal. Allowing developers' to leverage their knowledge of Java, Android APIs and their existing code probably would have minimized their opposition to supporting BB10 with apps. There should not have been a built for Blackberry logo program.To be in Blackberry World an app would have needed to conform to the BB10 UX guidelines irrespective of what tools were used to develop the app such as Cordova.

    While keeping the Android runtime up-to-date, Blackberry should have been working on Cascades to deliver the unique capabilities of QNX; finding things that are easier to enable with QNX than Linux, such as distributed computing. For example, off loading compute to cars with QNX thereby extending battery life and making phone performance less dependent upon the SOC.
    Bluenoser63 likes this.
    10-25-15 09:59 PM
  6. TRMP87's Avatar
    It's called, the Iphone was introduced in 2007, if BB10 was introduced AT THE LATEST of 2009 it would be doing great now. But they launched in 2013, 6 years too late when the market share was dominated by better hardware and quality OS's.

    Posted via CB10
    10-26-15 03:15 AM
  7. DonHB's Avatar
    The same way that Apple introduced the iPhone with just the commonly used development tools of the day, BlackBerry should have followed the same path with commonly used tools of the day. For the iPhone it was Web technologies for BB10 it would have been the most used Java mobile API. Java was used with BBOS and should have continued to be used at BB10's inception, but with Android APIs AND BB10's UX.

    It may have allowed BlackBerry to get BB10 devices to market earlier as well.
    Last edited by DonHB; 10-26-15 at 06:03 PM.
    10-26-15 02:26 PM
  8. kartun's Avatar
    It's kinda weired ... Actually, I mostly disagree with most of the topics from the topicstarter ...
    1. Lots of technologies ... hmmm, from my point of view it was done to attract as much developers as possible with their existing skills. Qt is quite fun to use and pretty simple, also it have quite good documentation itself, so actually if you have any development skills it would be quite simple either to switch or to use. Also you talking about Qt 5.5 support ... c'mon, it's not a rocket science, and most of the things you can do with so called old Qt 4.8. So, this point is just a search for excuse, not the real problem.
    2. You complaining about real devices ... if you are really keen to get one, you would find an opportunity. That's all. If you aren't, what are you talking about? does MS or Apple managers lined up at your door to give you newest devices?
    3. Aye, BBW is ****, no doubts ... but again, even here you complaining that your app isn't in promoted section.

    Talking about another platforms ... hm. Famous XCode ... lmgtfy ...
    For android development you can use either Eclipse or IntelliJ ... so, what's the difference between QtCreator and Eclipse in this case? I suppose, no answer.

    So, actually BB tried to lure any potential developer into their platform. The only problem is that they offered android runtime, so there is almost no point to develop native apps as anyone can sideload almost any apk and have fun.
    12-29-15 05:18 AM
  9. wingnut666's Avatar
    ..so how do we move on? I will not be using one of the 3 remaining platforms. I cannot settle for something inferior. will someone pick up the pieces of bb10? ps: i do not care about apps.

    Posted via CBX
    12-29-15 08:08 AM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    ..so how do we move on? I will not be using one of the 3 remaining platforms.
    Don't bet on that. Most of the other alternatives have already failed.

    will someone pick up the pieces of bb10? ps: i do not care about apps.
    BB10 isn't going to be made open-source, so, no. Open-sourcing BB10 would require releasing the QNX source code, and that's still too big of a product for BB to give away, plus there could be security holes in BB10 that would be obvious if the source code was available - right now, obscurity is part of BB's security.

    Eventually, your last BB10 device will die or changes to the cellular infrastructure will obsolete it (if software doesn't do that first), and you'll be back to choosing from the Big 3. Even newer feature phones are moving to Android.
    Last edited by Troy Tiscareno; 12-30-15 at 12:15 AM.
    early2bed likes this.
    12-29-15 10:29 AM
  11. Alexander Saprykin's Avatar
    It's kinda weired ... Actually, I mostly disagree with most of the topics from the topicstarter ...
    1. Lots of technologies ... hmmm, from my point of view it was done to attract as much developers as possible with their existing skills.
    Yeah, even without the skills. Are really sure that a platform can survive without healthy and professional developers? Did Android or iOS have support for at least 3 (officially supported) completely different ways to develop the apps right from the start?

    Also you talking about Qt 5.5 support ... c'mon, it's not a rocket science, and most of the things you can do with so called old Qt 4.8. So, this point is just a search for excuse, not the real problem.
    Excuse for what? Of course we can write programs even with an assembler, but a high-level language is much more appreciated. In terms of desktop apps Qt4 and Qt5 is not so far from each other, but in terms of mobile development Qt5 is a huge leap ahead, at least with Qt Quick 2 and Qt Quick Controls and Layouts, new Web engine. Just leave it here: What's new in Qt5. I do not want to reinvent a wheel with Qt4.

    2. You complaining about real devices ... if you are really keen to get one, you would find an opportunity. That's all. If you aren't, what are you talking about?
    If you read my post one more time, you will see that I'm complaining about real devices PRIOR the launch. Obviously I couldn't buy it in the shop before the launch. So could you please tell me how to get it in a proper way? Maybe I had done something wrong or missed something?

    does MS or Apple managers lined up at your door to give you newest devices?
    Does MS or Apple hold developer contests on a completely new platform without a single device on the market?

    3. Aye, BBW is ****, no doubts ... but again, even here you complaining that your app isn't in promoted section.
    I do not complain that my app wasn't in promoted section, my complain is that almost only a bull**** is promoted in that section. Even now. I want to show that at least I have tried to change the situation so you wouldn't tell me "if you are really keen to get one, you would find an opportunity". Maybe I had done something wrong again and you know any transparent rules or criteria why all of that crap is promoting there?

    so, what's the difference between QtCreator and Eclipse in this case? I suppose, no answer.
    If you do not see any difference between Eclipse and Qt Creator you probably haven't tried them. For me Qt Creator is much more comfortable:
    • lightweight and fast (and not a heavy Java-based monster)
    • integrated support for Qt docs
    • built-in CMake support
    • support for Qt data types in debugger (QList, QStringList, QString...)
    • easy to use and non-overloaded UI

    I do not want to start another holywar "Qt Creator vs. Eclipse", but they are completely different.

    So, actually BB tried to lure any potential developer into their platform.
    You are completely right: "any potential developer". Not real developers. They wanted the numbers. They got them.

    I do not want to touch your feelings, but BlackBerry 10 was dead from the beginning. Now it is clear that the game was already over.
    12-29-15 02:18 PM
  12. kartun's Avatar
    Dear Alexander,
    please, don't get me wrong. I don't see point to comment on every statement you made. But still:
    For android you have choice between IntelliJ and Eclipse, for BB you also have a choice. That's all. From my point of view BB just don't have required capacity to shift from Qt 4.8 to Qt5 ... And still, there is an community maintained overlay for Qt5. I don't want to go deeper in this topic, as I'm not very familiar with Qt5.
    Speaking about available frameworks ... I'm not sure about Apple and policy about publishing Cordova apps in their store, but at least Cordova is available for iOS, we used it in several in-house projects. So, here you have a choice. BlackBerry offered it officially, that's all.

    BB made lots of mistakes, that's no doubt. I see reasons behind most of them. Without android runtime things could be better, but they made their choice. And still, many people bury BB for like 4 years, and it's still alive. So what, either they learn on their mistakes, or they leave consumer segment. That's all.
    12-29-15 02:56 PM
  13. DonHB's Avatar
    I disagree with you regarding Android support. Blackberry should have let the developer/ISV decide what tools are most appropriate for the job, but the resulting apps should all conform to the BB10 UX. Blackberry didn't invest the resources in making this happen. Android apps using the runtime do not conform to the BB10 UX. Making a situation similar to the Windows 8 user experience. Had they chosen to make Java (like BBOS) the primary development choice, choosing Android APIs would be the logical next step. When Blackberry would begin to leverage the capabilities of QNX in BB10 they could then start pushing Cascades. That of course hasn't happened, but they could still have later begun pushing Cascades in the context of these future improvements.

    But we do agree that Blackberry made many mistakes. What ever people here say about Apple, they have an incredible track record in platforms transitions: 68000->PowerPC, OS9->OS X, PowerPC->x86->x64. Blackberry should of learned from the industry experience of both Apple and Microsoft, but they didn't.
    12-29-15 03:35 PM
  14. early2bed's Avatar
    What ever people here say about Apple, they have an incredible track record in platforms transitions: 68000->PowerPC, OS9->OS X, PowePC->x86->x64. Blackberry should of learned from the industry experience of both Apple and Microsoft, but they didn't.
    One of the most important has been Mac OS -> iOS because as soon as they decided to open up the platform to third party apps they already had a powerful set of development tools and a core group of Mac OS developers. An important part of their mobile ecosystem is that developers can target Macs, iPads, iPods, iPhones, Apple TV, and Apple Watch with the same base code.
    12-29-15 03:57 PM
  15. Alexander Saprykin's Avatar
    Dear Alexander,
    please, don't get me wrong. I don't see point to comment on every statement you made. But still:
    For android you have choice between IntelliJ and Eclipse, for BB you also have a choice. That's all. From my point of view BB just don't have required capacity to shift from Qt 4.8 to Qt5 ... And still, there is an community maintained overlay for Qt5. I don't want to go deeper in this topic, as I'm not very familiar with Qt5.
    Speaking about available frameworks ... I'm not sure about Apple and policy about publishing Cordova apps in their store, but at least Cordova is available for iOS, we used it in several in-house projects. So, here you have a choice. BlackBerry offered it officially, that's all.

    BB made lots of mistakes, that's no doubt. I see reasons behind most of them. Without android runtime things could be better, but they made their choice. And still, many people bury BB for like 4 years, and it's still alive. So what, either they learn on their mistakes, or they leave consumer segment. That's all.
    Actually I couldn't say that I have a choice for Eclipse or Qt Creator when developing for BlackBerry 10. Some things are better and more convenient in Eclipse (Momentics) like device support, but some things are better in Qt Creator (at least working with Qt). So I have to combine them. BlackBerry didn't offer official Qt Creator support: they started to develop BlackBerry 10 plugin for Qt Creator and then eventually dropped it (as a Qt support). So they have spent some efforts on Momentics and some on Qt Creator. In my opinion it was a ridiculous step taking into account their limited resources.

    Yes, there was some sort of Qt5 port, but it has a limitation: you couldn't mix Cascades and Qt5 UI.

    And I totally agree that without Android runtime things could be better. For me BlackBerry 10 is still the working horse on a daily basis and I do love this OS. I do not want to go on iOS or Android for several reasons and it is hard to see that we do not have real alternatives. I have some hopes for Sailfish OS, but Jolla also has hard times.
    12-29-15 04:04 PM
40 12

Similar Threads

  1. Can I persuade my PP to automatically connect to the car audio?
    By jamescarruthers in forum BlackBerry Passport
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-23-15, 02:50 AM
  2. My BlackBerry 9930 Bold shows error 603, how can I fix it?
    By CrackBerry Question in forum BlackBerry Bold 9930/9900
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-17-15, 09:04 AM
  3. how to update wechat apps in BlackBerry z3
    By lallana in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-17-15, 06:53 AM
  4. Why can't my z10 open a apk for instagram?
    By CrackBerry Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-17-15, 02:34 AM
  5. Why is my device unable to keep new changes to wallpaper?
    By CrackBerry Question in forum BlackBerry 10 Wallpapers
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-16-15, 10:42 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD