12-05-13 02:50 AM
31 12
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  1. serbanescu's Avatar
    As you may find on this site, yesterday's sensor issue was due to corrupt server data.

    I find it odd that sensor calibration has to depend on a BlackBerry server.

    It is odd from a functional standpoind - what happens when you reboot your phone in an area lacking data coverage (only GSM signal available)?

    It is odd from a privacy standpoind - does the "calibration" occurs even if "Collection of diagnostic and usage data" is turned off?

    I am a big BlackBerry 10 fan, but these are legitimate questions, in my opinion. Maybe someone in the know could offer some answers.

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    Pic Tagger for BB10 and PlayBook
    12-04-13 10:42 AM
  2. kbz1960's Avatar
    I would like a better understanding on this also.
    12-04-13 10:44 AM
  3. vrud's Avatar
    Yeap, that's interesting for me too.
    What if I don't have network connection (voice only plan)?
    Then my phone is unusable?
    12-04-13 10:45 AM
  4. serbanescu's Avatar
    A comparison with other mobile OSs in terms of "sensor calibration" would be greatly appreciated, also.

    I confess I have no idea about the subject.

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    Pic Tagger for BB10 and PlayBook
    kbz1960 and Fidel Mercado like this.
    12-04-13 10:48 AM
  5. flyingsolid's Avatar
    I would like to know more too, but I am particularly interested in which sensors need to communicate with a server if it happens to be a subset.
    12-04-13 11:01 AM
  6. moosbb's Avatar
    Do you guys turn on the BB diagnostics and statistics option?

    If so, people was agreed that BB would access their data...

    Q10 ? OS 10.2.1.176
    12-04-13 11:13 AM
  7. serbanescu's Avatar
    Do you guys turn on the BB diagnostics and statistics option?

    If so, people was agreed that BB would access their data...

    Q10 ? OS 10.2.1.176
    Is there someone that had the sensor issue even if "Collection of diagnostic and usage data" was turned off?

    I didn't have any problems these days, but on my device "Collection of diagnostic and usage data" is turned off.

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    Pic Tagger for BB10 and PlayBook
    12-04-13 11:18 AM
  8. joeldf's Avatar
    I didn't have the sensor issue. I'm on 10.2.1.1055. Diagnostics is turned off (always has been).

    But my compass has always been flaky from day one. Very rarely has it ever really pointed north. Most if the time, it points anywhere from due east to somewhat north-east. I kind of have to work it side to side and it may finally drift north.

    I do know that my son's GS2 has built-in calibration tools for most of it's sensors, and wondered why my Z10 didn't. Now I know.

    Posted via CB10
    12-04-13 11:40 AM
  9. tayl0rd's Avatar
    Yeah, my Z10's compass app is incredibly inaccurate. Sometimes it will drift all the way WSW and call it N. If you somehow ended up lost in the wilderness and only had the BB10 compass app to guide you, you'd be royally screwed.
    12-04-13 12:19 PM
  10. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Is there someone that had the sensor issue even if "Collection of diagnostic and usage data" was turned off?

    I didn't have any problems these days, but on my device "Collection of diagnostic and usage data" is turned off.

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    Pic Tagger for BB10 and PlayBook
    I had the problem, and had "Collection of diagnostic and usage data" turned off.

    The first question is: what is calibration data? All smartphones, certainly all BlackBerrys that have GPS devices have the option of downloading GPS satellite ephemeris data from a server. This data allows the GPS to acquire a fix faster, but is not required. If the server can not be contacted the data will eventually be received from the satellites, or the device will make due with old data for a time, but fixes will be less accurate or take longer.

    So the second questions is: could corrupt ephemeris data mess up all sensors? GPS position computation usually involves iterative successive approximation type calculations rather than direct solutions. It is possible that, given corrupt data, the computation would diverge and never complete, or take excessively long to complete. Long time BlackBerry users will be familiar with the dreaded hourglass when one application held the user interface thread and stalled the screen updates. It is possible that either due to hardware or driver considerations that the sensor hardware, including the GPS, was not getting fully serviced the way it should have been because the corrupt data was causing the driver service thread to get stuck in computation rather than servicing the hardware. This would probably not be noticed on the OS except for increased battery drain and heat because these computations would probably be done on the radio CPU. This would explain why those who turned off location services we able to have light, proximity and orientation sensors working again.

    This explains how corrupt server data could cause what we experienced without the server needing to get any data from the phone. It this in fact what happened? I don't know, but by Occam's razor the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
    12-04-13 12:53 PM
  11. paper_monkey's Avatar
    Is there someone that had the sensor issue even if "Collection of diagnostic and usage data" was turned off?

    I didn't have any problems these days, but on my device "Collection of diagnostic and usage data" is turned off.

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    Pic Tagger for BB10 and PlayBook
    I have collection turned off on my phone and didn't notice any sensor issues.


    Posted via CB10
    12-04-13 12:57 PM
  12. FortyTwoApps's Avatar
    I don't think it's a case of 'needing' to communicate with the network to calibrate. Your OS version would have default calibrations built in, but say those calibrations were off for whatever reason, OTA updates of this type of data prevents them from needing to push an OS update for a minor, but significant issue if it were to happen.

    Your device likely tries to connect to the network, and compares your calibration settings against the servers, and if it's different, then it takes the server values, which is how your calibrations got messed up, and then fixed afterwards. I use this method in apps at my day job, and aside from random server data corruption, it is the smarter way of doing it.
    Kamika007z and Kimberella like this.
    12-04-13 01:48 PM
  13. rapperman's Avatar
    "Collection of diagnostic and usage data" turned off. Had no issues.
    12-04-13 02:24 PM
  14. Kamika007z's Avatar
    I don't think it's a case of 'needing' to communicate with the network to calibrate. Your OS version would have default calibrations built in, but say those calibrations were off for whatever reason, OTA updates of this type of data prevents them from needing to push an OS update for a minor, but significant issue if it were to happen.

    Your device likely tries to connect to the network, and compares your calibration settings against the servers, and if it's different, then it takes the server values, which is how your calibrations got messed up, and then fixed afterwards. I use this method in apps at my day job, and aside from random server data corruption, it is the smarter way of doing it.
    ^ This.

    The same way your device "triangulates" or calibrates as to what tower/network connection to use, the same calibration data is used in other areas of the phone.
    12-04-13 03:02 PM
  15. n8tiveg's Avatar
    "Collection of diagnostic and usage data" turned off. Had no issues.
    Mine was turned on and had no issues wonder if it was. Regional or carrier related

    Posted via CB10
    12-04-13 03:06 PM
  16. adjdudley21's Avatar
    As you may find on this site, yesterday's sensor issue was due to corrupt server data.

    I find it odd that sensor calibration has to depend on a BlackBerry server.

    It is odd from a functional standpoind - what happens when you reboot your phone in an area lacking data coverage (only GSM signal available)?

    It is odd from a privacy standpoind - does the "calibration" occurs even if "Collection of diagnostic and usage data" is turned off?

    I am a big BlackBerry 10 fan, but these are legitimate questions, in my opinion. Maybe someone in the know could offer some answers.

    --------------------

    Pic Tagger for BB10 and PlayBook
    Well I think you are looking too deep into it.. once again my opinion.. i have a z10 that i have been using as a memory drive and a media device, meaning i have no sim card, or wifi connection on it.. i have updated it to 10.2.1550 or whatever the leaked version is now and have not had any issues, so I'm not sure how it works but i don't think having or not having a network connection is going to affect anything just my OPINION
    12-04-13 03:16 PM
  17. JWWDUKE's Avatar
    Telus Z10 stl100-3
    10.2.1.1055
    Data collection usage off
    Zero problems with sensors

    Posted via CBZ10 baby!
    12-04-13 03:20 PM
  18. BCITMike's Avatar
    I think "calibration" is probably not the right word if its just feeding a GPS almanac.

    Posted via CB10
    12-04-13 03:35 PM
  19. Chanlion's Avatar
    I don't think the base functionality if the sensors are dependant on their servers. I noticed when I restarted, the problem was fine then it came back. I'm guessing the base functionality is in the OS and any corrections are from the server.
    The compass for example is more accurate with mobile location on than just on GPS.

    If anyone remembers the first moment they got their phone. Sensors worked properly, at that point it had never connected to the Internet before.
    12-04-13 04:18 PM
  20. SlcCorrado's Avatar
    This whole thing reminds me of that time when all the new iphones had there alarms fail on the same morning due to a server issue... I don't like it...
    12-04-13 04:27 PM
  21. Fidel Mercado's Avatar
    This whole thing reminds me of that time when all the new iphones had there alarms fail on the same morning due to a server issue... I don't like it...
    I see what you did there
    12-04-13 04:51 PM
  22. Fidel Mercado's Avatar
    The problem here is that people were better off not knowing what thier hotdogs were made of. But now that its in the open, people are right to want a better explanation. Security is Blackberry's #1 chest beating feature. And a remote server that can distribute an OS flaw on such a wide scale is a huge chink in Blackberry's armor.

    ***I'll brace for the backlash from my accusation****.
    12-04-13 04:55 PM
  23. southlander's Avatar
    It is odd from a functional standpoind - what happens when you reboot your phone in an area lacking data coverage (only GSM signal available)?
    Then I'd expect (I don't know) the phone would retain previous settings.

    Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1055
    12-04-13 04:57 PM
  24. tlegend2012's Avatar
    still don't know what is the relationship between servers and sensors.. strange
    12-04-13 04:59 PM
  25. VR6's Avatar
    Also sounded fishy to me. Thought calibration settings would be hard coded into the OS, like camera functions.

    Fired from my Z10
    12-04-13 05:56 PM
31 12

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