02-17-18 06:44 PM
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  1. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I don't know. Older people lean towards iOS I think because Android is more cumbersome. BlackBerry seems to think it's Hub is so valuable that it has tried to port it over.

    Even if you're right though, it doesn't take many who want a more elegant OS in a market this big.
    I think iOS propagates a lot from word of mouth and other itty bitty occurrences that help expand mindshare.

    Take communication; iOS is far from my favorite OS, but when it comes to modern communication, it's tough to beat. By communication, I am referring to the platform that allows you to reach and connect with the most people... and it delivers. So, at Christmas, when folks are buying devices for loved ones, they buy what they know. When friends and co-workers recommend devices, they tell folks to get what they know. Heck, iMessage is an anchor app all on its own.

    Obviously, that isn't the whole story, but it helps.

    Android is an easy second choice.

    To a degree, I think you are right... the very thing we sometimes make fun of here -- its simplicity -- is definitely a big draw. Simplicity is GOLD in consumer technology.
    Fret Madden likes this.
    02-14-17 02:02 AM
  2. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    I don't know. Older people lean towards iOS I think because Android is more cumbersome. BlackBerry seems to think it's Hub is so valuable that it has tried to port it over.

    Even if you're right though, it doesn't take many who want a more elegant OS in a market this big.

    Posted via CB10
    That's where you're wrong again. Blackberry isn't in business to report annually revenue in the six figures. It takes many customers for BlackBerry to justify producing a smart phone and an accompanying OS. It is now 2017, 0.1% doesn't cut it; even 1% doesn't cut it.

    Posted via CB10
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    02-14-17 02:17 AM
  3. Velocitymj's Avatar
    . It's downright embarrassing that Microsoft had the gall to release that OS in the sort of state it did.

    Posted via CB10
    Those are the same sentiments that many of us have about the release of BlackBerry 10.
    And A LOT of people did walk away from BlackBerry after that.


    Posted via CB10
    02-17-17 02:49 PM
  4. Velocitymj's Avatar
    OK, we are not being censored but instead told that we are mentally unbalanced and unable to accept reality. I don't know which is more offensive. I'd rather Crackberry just kick all of us off and ban all discussion antithetical to Chen's genius and BB10s inevitable failure before it was created.

    Posted via CB10
    In a thread about Chen being voted CEO #2 behind Tim Cook I expressed my opinion that Chen didn't deserve that.
    Then someone told me to leave the thread. A number of people jumped in on that poster for saying that.
    So don't think that people here don't think you have a right to your opinion.

    Posted via CB10
    02-17-17 03:49 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    In a thread about Chen being voted CEO #2 behind Tim Cook I expressed my opinion that Chen didn't deserve that.
    Then someone told me to leave the thread. A number of people jumped in on that poster for saying that.
    So don't think that people here don't think you have a right to your opinion.

    Posted via CB10
    Agreed. Telling people to buzz off around here doesn't usually end well.
    02-17-17 03:59 PM
  6. anon(6125289)'s Avatar
    Those are the same sentiments that many of us have about the release of BlackBerry 10.
    And A LOT of people did walk away from BlackBerry after that.


    Posted via CB10
    I did walk away for a long time. They didn't release a compelling piece of hardware until the passport. I sat on the sidelines until the OS and hardware matured. After both my experiences with windows 10 mobile and BB10.... I can say dealing with a walking zombie of an OS is worse than one who is dead. The promise of "someday" becoming a complete ecosystem isn't enough anymore.
    02-17-17 05:03 PM
  7. palewhiteninja's Avatar
    I'm more curious to see what Microsoft does than any other mobile company. I'm hoping to pick up a cheap 950 or xl and see what their next move is. I heard something about a surface phone and prject red...red something

    Posted via Nokia 3310
    02-17-17 10:25 PM
  8. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    I did walk away for a long time. They didn't release a compelling piece of hardware until the passport. I sat on the sidelines until the OS and hardware matured. After both my experiences with windows 10 mobile and BB10.... I can say dealing with a walking zombie of an OS is worse than one who is dead. The promise of "someday" becoming a complete ecosystem isn't enough anymore.
    I'm sorry, but your comment is just silly. iOS, Android, Windows Phone and BB10 all had half assed releases varying degrees. iOS couldn't send or receive MMS (something even feature phones at the time did very well) and it also didn't support stereo bluetooth; not to mention that the app store came way later in the life of iOS. Android had its hiccups as well; many devices were laggy and not until project butter was any device truly smooth.

    What makes these devices any good now is development time. iOS and Android have now had years of development to refine them to be what they are now. BB10 was reaching a very good state, but unfortunately had to be let go; due in large part to lack of native well known apps such as Netflix, Snapchat, Hulu, Google apps, etc.

    You sat on the sidelines, do you realize that was part of Blackberry's problem? Not enough customers purchasing devices. I'm not saying it's your fault, but let's not pretend that what you did didn't negatively hurt Blackberry to some degree. And the reality is that BB10 wasn't even that bad of a release; it was a pretty solid first release, but the major issue was that it was released way too late. Had BB10 been released in late 2009 or very early 2010, I have a strong feeling things would have turned out differently.

    Posted via CB10
    02-18-17 12:47 AM
  9. anon(6125289)'s Avatar
    I'm sorry, but your comment is just silly. iOS, Android, Windows Phone and BB10 all had half assed releases varying degrees. iOS couldn't send or receive MMS (something even feature phones at the time did very well) and it also didn't support stereo bluetooth; not to mention that the app store came way later in the life of iOS. Android had its hiccups as well; many devices were laggy and not until project butter was any device truly smooth.

    What makes these devices any good now is development time. iOS and Android have now had years of development to refine them to be what they are now. BB10 was reaching a very good state, but unfortunately had to be let go; due in large part to lack of native well known apps such as Netflix, Snapchat, Hulu, Google apps, etc.

    You sat on the sidelines, do you realize that was part of Blackberry's problem? Not enough customers purchasing devices. I'm not saying it's your fault, but let's not pretend that what you did didn't negatively hurt Blackberry to some degree. And the reality is that BB10 wasn't even that bad of a release; it was a pretty solid first release, but the major issue was that it was released way too late. Had BB10 been released in late 2009 or very early 2010, I have a strong feeling things would have turned out differently.

    Posted via CB10
    Nothing about the launch software was compelling enough to shell out 600$ for a Z10 that constantly rebooted. Which is what I did. I don't disagree that it would have been very different had it come out in 2009 or 2011. It was too little too late. I paid new msrp for a Z10 and a Passport. By the time I wanted to dump the Z10 it had already lost so much value I kept it around. Nothing about the software was compelling enough on launch to warrant anybody having it as a daily driver Imo. It seems to have disappointed BBOS users and android\Ios users didn't have the apps they needed. In the end, who was this OS supposed to be for?
    Velocitymj likes this.
    02-18-17 12:58 AM
  10. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    Nothing about the launch software was compelling enough to shell out 600$ for a Z10 that constantly rebooted. Which is what I did. I don't disagree that it would have been very different had it come out in 2009 or 2011. It was too little too late. I paid new msrp for a Z10 and a Passport. By the time I wanted to dump the Z10 it had already lost so much value I kept it around. Nothing about the software was compelling enough on launch to warrant anybody having it as a daily driver Imo.
    The same can be said of iOS and Android, which was my point.

    Posted via CB10
    02-18-17 01:00 AM
  11. anon(6125289)'s Avatar
    The same can be said of iOS and Android, which was my point.

    Posted via CB10
    A device "built for business" launching with the ability to only set 1 alarm in 2013 is pathetic. Android and Ios were novel when they were introduced. They were courting consumers in a market that had no experience with smartphones. There are absolutely no parallels to draw between BB10 and Androids\IOS launch software. People had expectations of what a smartphone should and could do in 2013....
    02-18-17 01:31 AM
  12. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    A device "built for business" launching with the ability to only set 1 alarm in 2013 is pathetic. Android and Ios were novel when they were introduced. They were courting consumers in a market that had no experience with smartphones. There are absolutely no parallels to draw between BB10 and Androids\IOS launch software. People had expectations of what a smartphone should and could do in 2013....
    I mostly agree. What folks expected on a smartphone in 2013 was VERY different from what they expected in 2008.

    The early iterations of Android and iOS would suffer in today's market.
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    02-18-17 02:31 AM
  13. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    A device "built for business" launching with the ability to only set 1 alarm in 2013 is pathetic. Android and Ios were novel when they were introduced. They were courting consumers in a market that had no experience with smartphones. There are absolutely no parallels to draw between BB10 and Androids\IOS launch software. People had expectations of what a smartphone should and could do in 2013....
    It's apartment that your opinion is resolute and anything said to the contrary will just be dismissed, so I will not try any further.

    Posted via CB10
    02-18-17 02:31 AM
  14. Soulstream's Avatar
    I'm sorry, but your comment is just silly. iOS, Android, Windows Phone and BB10 all had half assed releases varying degrees. iOS couldn't send or receive MMS (something even feature phones at the time did very well) and it also didn't support stereo bluetooth; not to mention that the app store came way later in the life of iOS. Android had its hiccups as well; many devices were laggy and not until project butter was any device truly smooth.

    What makes these devices any good now is development time. iOS and Android have now had years of development to refine them to be what they are now. BB10 was reaching a very good state, but unfortunately had to be let go; due in large part to lack of native well known apps such as Netflix, Snapchat, Hulu, Google apps, etc.

    You sat on the sidelines, do you realize that was part of Blackberry's problem? Not enough customers purchasing devices. I'm not saying it's your fault, but let's not pretend that what you did didn't negatively hurt Blackberry to some degree. And the reality is that BB10 wasn't even that bad of a release; it was a pretty solid first release, but the major issue was that it was released way too late. Had BB10 been released in late 2009 or very early 2010, I have a strong feeling things would have turned out differently.

    Posted via CB10
    You said it yourself, both iOS and Android had rocky starts, but they were in 2007-2008. You don't compare a product launched in 2007 to one launched in 2013, but you compare it with the actual competition available on the market. A normal consumer would always compare products at the time they are bought.
    02-18-17 05:44 AM
  15. neeraj121y's Avatar
    No marketing strategy, they were not focused on big countries like India, China etc.
    02-18-17 07:48 AM
  16. Farzeen25's Avatar
    Lol, I don't understand why people keep asking the same things again and again. I mean what's the point? Is there any sort of adrenaline rush that is taking place, especially while discussing on an issue which is well known.

    Posted via CB10
    02-18-17 08:06 AM
  17. early2bed's Avatar
    During the years after the PalmOS/webOS reboot, the most common sentiment on the forums was "You can't compare webOS to iOS because webOS is only two years old" as if Tesla can compare itself to the Model T or something. Sure, the iPhone had a rocky start but Apple didn't have an obvious template about what a successful smartphone should be. The creators of webOS, Android, and BB10 pretty much knew what they were aiming for from day one. That's the main advantage in running in 2nd or 3rd place - you just need to focus on the back of the guy in front of you.
    Last edited by early2bed; 02-18-17 at 10:37 AM.
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    02-18-17 10:27 AM
  18. app_Developer's Avatar
    During the years after the PalmOS/webOS reboot, the most common sentiment on the forums was "You can't compare webOS to iOS because webOS is only two years old" as if Tesla can compare itself to the Model T or something. Sure, the iPhone had a rocky start but Apple didn't have an obvious template about what a successful smartphone should be. The creators of webOS, Android, and BB10 pretty much knew what they were aiming for from day one.
    Exactly. Plus, in the early days of iPhone, not very many people bought the iPhone. They had to get it right before it really started really selling well.
    02-18-17 10:40 AM
  19. roleli's Avatar
    Few words: arrogance, too little too late.
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    02-18-17 05:55 PM
  20. sidtek50's Avatar
    Chen being 2nd best CEO?! Bwahahaha! Whoever believes that is a complete moron. Steve Jobs is still a better CEO than Chen and Jobs isn't with us anymore..

    Posted via CB10
    02-19-17 02:31 AM
  21. ankenn's Avatar
    I always thought that the stories of people bringing out their passport and others saying 'where can I get one' were a little bit of wishful thinking if not fantasy. But that very moment happened to me yesterday. I was at a birthday lunch. 18 people sitting around a table. I took out my black passport to check for a message I was waiting for from my daughter and my neighbour said in wonderment, 'what is that?' I showed it to him. The phone went around the table. I explained a bit about why I liked it, the hub and so forth, and the multi language keyboard, and it other virtues important to me. This was in Spain, and everyone there worked in at least two languages, but the Passport had never been sold in Spain. To a man they asked, 'Where can I get one?' I had to explain the sad story of the Blackberry Passport and told them to search on eBay or Amazon. All of which begs the question, 'Why doesn't BB spin off OS10 into another company and support or even continue the Passport. BB could make OS10 open source and allow other software houses to develop it. I always said it could make the basis of a cut down desktop system. Why not? The Passport is really the only decent advance in mobile phones since the iPhone. Whatever happened to the multi-SIM software company that BB bought. Why not produce a multiSIM passport with an upgraded camera and processor. What a device that would be. So, to return to the theme of this thread, there is nothing sadder than the failure to push decent innovation. What happened to BB was a failure of nerve.
    roleli likes this.
    02-19-17 05:00 AM
  22. sidtek50's Avatar
    I personally think BB10 would have done really well if it was open sourced, however, look at cyanogenmod - there aren't any guarantees with how things will go once open sourced.

    I personally don't think BB10 will ever get open sourced which is surprising given Blackberry being a security company. Considering the userbase of BB10 is small, if they handed it off to the open source community, there could be fantastic improvements to be made.

    Can you imagine a team of devs working on BB10 and pushing out updates?! Wow. But let's be realistic here. Blackberry didn't even release an equivalent to Xcode. With no tools, devs aren't going to work on it.

    Posted via CB10
    02-19-17 08:24 AM
  23. StephanieMaks's Avatar
    I personally think BB10 would have done really well if it was open sourced, however, look at cyanogenmod - there aren't any guarantees with how things will go once open sourced.

    I personally don't think BB10 will ever get open sourced which is surprising given Blackberry being a security company. Considering the userbase of BB10 is small, if they handed it off to the open source community, there could be fantastic improvements to be made.

    Can you imagine a team of devs working on BB10 and pushing out updates?! Wow. But let's be realistic here. Blackberry didn't even release an equivalent to Xcode. With no tools, devs aren't going to work on it.

    Posted via CB10
    Who would pay that team of developers? What's in it for them to be working on BB10 and pushing out those updates?

    I see this idea of open source = magic development but never any explanation of who'd be paying for it. Or why. It failed as a commercial enterprise, the number of people still using it has dwindled to a 0% rounding error.

    You might get one or two enthusiasts working on it out of pure love, but you aren't going to see an army of skilled OS developers suddenly descend on it and ressurect it from the dead just because now it's open source.
    DrBoomBotz and Ronindan like this.
    02-19-17 09:12 AM
  24. CBCListener's Avatar
    I personally think BB10 would have done really well if it was open sourced,

    Posted via CB10
    The problem with open source is that it exposes the code to its secrets related to security and encryption. Therefore, something of a non-starter. Yes, Android is open-source, and BlackBerry asserts that they've made it secure. But it's still not, and likely never will, be as secure as BB10 or the legacy BBOS is.

    Posted via CB10, on a BlackBerry Passport
    02-19-17 10:06 AM
  25. sidtek50's Avatar
    Who would pay that team of developers? What's in it for them to be working on BB10 and pushing out those updates?

    I see this idea of open source = magic development but never any explanation of who'd be paying for it. Or why. It failed as a commercial enterprise, the number of people still using it has dwindled to a 0% rounding error.

    You might get one or two enthusiasts working on it out of pure love, but you aren't going to see an army of skilled OS developers suddenly descend on it and ressurect it from the dead just because now it's open source.
    Because that is what open-source is. Open source IS a "magical" team of developers doing something they love. But my post was purely what i'd love to see. Is it going to happen? No chance. First off, Blackberry wont open-source BB10. It aint gonna happen, ever. Secondly, as you correctly say: will a team jump onto BB10? Probably not. I wouldn't rule it out, but probably not. Most developers develop because they love coding. They survive on donations and/or do it in their spare time. Which means that in the extremely-unlikely scenario where Blackberry revealed the source code, *someone*, *somewhere* would begin building on it. But the project would only survive as long as they're interested in it.

    Why did Cyanogenmod last so long? Because new hardware came out to let the devs use/build for. No sane developer is going to develop BB10 for a Classic which came out in 2013 with absolutely no chance of a new BB10 device coming out.

    I need to be careful and not mention names here but does everyone remember the Dreamcast? Sega's failed console. Recently, a team of several devs built a game for it. Yes - i'm serious. Despite the console being dead, they spent 2 years gathering enough devs who were willing to work for free and build a game. They built most of the game, put it on kickstarter - and couldn't get funded. No one wanted it. The same would happen with BB10 - outside of this forum, there's not enough people desperate for BB10 to be made open-source.

    If you ask 99% of people what open-source is (made up figure), they wouldn't have a clue. We're getting a bit technical now and hypothetical. My point was just: it would have been amazing if BB10 was made open-source years ago. Chen knew he wasn't going to release more BB10 phones. So why is he sitting on it? Because he knows Blackberry's future is with android and doesn't want to waste (much) time on BB10 anymore.

    That's how I see it anyway!
    02-19-17 10:10 AM
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