02-17-18 06:44 PM
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  1. markmall's Avatar
    And charge even more per unit? They couldn't sell what they had at the time which was worth considerably less per unit. Other companies can use economies of scale to bring down the per unit price on higher end devices, but Blackberry hasn't been in such a position in a decade now.

    You say they didn't need to make the Leap, but the Leap was never primarily intended for the American market; it was aimed more at emerging markets where Blackberry still sells regularly. It was never intended to be an upgrade either. Even making it as cheap as it was they couldn't get it to be cheap enough for those emerging markets and it didn't do all that well.

    No offense to anyone, but a lot of readers need to get it through their heads that the hardware side of Blackberry was done, and it was done a long time ago; well before Chen was put at the helm. Blackberry lost its chance when it failed to compete with the first iPhone; period, full stop, end of story.

    Posted via CB10
    How well did that Leap sell? If it were only released and BB10 hardware not shuttered due to their SoC commitment, why not make the much needed Z10 upgrade phone? It's called marketing. Z10, Z30, Z.... This educates and informs the public.| Also, weren't they still sitting on a boat load Z10s?
    02-11-17 01:40 PM
  2. markmall's Avatar
    Those weren't details. I read that.
    02-11-17 01:40 PM
  3. markmall's Avatar
    If only Microsoft had thought to advertise in the newspapers I'm sure windows phone wouldn't be dead.

    Posted via CB10
    I am not sure that Windows phone is dead. My impression is that they are planning on keeping it alive until they release their "Surface phone."
    02-11-17 01:46 PM
  4. markmall's Avatar
    Outsourcing the marketing and using print media for marketing is cheaper when compared to tv ads... people read newspaper... having your Z10 feature on the newspaper's front page for a week isnt very expensive and you get the same results as tv ads... getting your ads through facebook costs only 120$ per 1,00,000 views. Its not as expensive as you think to market a device if done properly.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't think you are allowed to point this out. Instead, you are supposed to say that Blackberry did not have any money to release their products the right way. Instead, they only had the ability to throw products out there and hope that people learned about them on CrackBerry.com or reviews posted on Youtube and bought them sight unseen.

    Also, there is no medium between spending nothing on marketing and spending as much as Apple and Samsung on marketing. It's all or nothing.
    02-11-17 01:50 PM
  5. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    I don't think you are allowed to point this out.
    Great, more "People who contradict my opinion and tell me I am wrong are censoring me!" nonsense. That got old about a dozen threads ago.
    02-11-17 02:45 PM
  6. app_Developer's Avatar
    Those weren't details. I read that.
    Here is the link to BB's financial reports: Financial Documents - United States

    As an example, here is the 1Q15 report: http://us.blackberry.com/content/dam...ss_Release.pdf

    The relevant quote from that quarter is:

    Purchase obligations and other commitments amounted to approximately $1.8 billion as at May 31, 2014, with purchase orders with contract manufacturers representing approximately $317 million of the total.
    You can look at other reports before and after and see the progression. Chen has been burning this liability down since he started.
    02-11-17 04:10 PM
  7. markmall's Avatar
    Great, more "People who contradict my opinion and tell me I am wrong are censoring me!" nonsense. That got old about a dozen threads ago.
    OK, we are not being censored but instead told that we are mentally unbalanced and unable to accept reality. I don't know which is more offensive. I'd rather Crackberry just kick all of us off and ban all discussion antithetical to Chen's genius and BB10s inevitable failure before it was created.

    Posted via CB10
    02-11-17 05:07 PM
  8. Fret Madden's Avatar
    OK, we are not being censored but instead told that we are mentally unbalanced and unable to accept reality. I don't know which is more offensive. I'd rather Crackberry just kick all of us off and ban all discussion antithetical to Chen's genius and BB10s inevitable failure before it was created.

    Posted via CB10
    Or you could pop over to the BBRY Café and get a better sense of how things are really going. Opinions are fine, but there's also reality.
    02-11-17 05:14 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    OK, we are not being censored but instead told that we are mentally unbalanced and unable to accept reality. I don't know which is more offensive. I'd rather Crackberry just kick all of us off and ban all discussion antithetical to Chen's genius and BB10s inevitable failure before it was created.

    Posted via CB10
    When one puts forward an extreme outlier position, one must expect some stern opposition.

    The burden of proof lies with you, as your position is contrary to most of the established and generally accepted facts.

    I do believe, however, that you are very welcome here, and I see no reason to ban someone who behaves respectfully.
    Fret Madden and DrBoomBotz like this.
    02-11-17 05:22 PM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    OK, we are not being censored but instead told that we are mentally unbalanced and unable to accept reality. I don't know which is more offensive. I'd rather Crackberry just kick all of us off and ban all discussion antithetical to Chen's genius and BB10s inevitable failure before it was created.

    Posted via CB10
    Probably has more to do with fact that you think you're smarter than Prem, Fairfax and the Board of Directors. Why didn't you and your institutional supporters outbid Fairfax, put in your CEO pick and implement your corporate strategy? Let's get real.. If your strategy made sense, why hasn't anyone done it? Think of all the money you'll make.. Better yet, we'd all crown you king of CrackBerry with all the BB10 devices we don't have starting with the infamous Z50...
    02-11-17 05:24 PM
  11. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    I'd rather Crackberry just kick all of us off and ban all discussion antithetical to Chen's genius and BB10s inevitable failure before it was created.
    Nobody is forcing you to come here.
    02-11-17 06:03 PM
  12. markmall's Avatar
    Or you could pop over to the BBRY Café and get a better sense of how things are really going. Opinions are fine, but there's also reality.
    Oh, a bunch of geniuses there! How well has their devotion to bbry paid off? Dead money for three years during the biggest bull market in history. This came after a 75% decline in shareprice.

    I actually broke even trading the stock but wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole for the last few years.

    Posted via CB10
    02-11-17 06:15 PM
  13. Fret Madden's Avatar
    Oh, a bunch of geniuses there! How well has their devotion to bbry paid off? Dead money for three years during the biggest bull market in history. This came after a 75% decline in shareprice.

    I actually broke even trading the stock but wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole for the last few years.

    Posted via CB10
    You're aware we can tell you didn't read anything there, yes?
    02-11-17 07:08 PM
  14. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    How well did that Leap sell? If it were only released and BB10 hardware not shuttered due to their SoC commitment, why not make the much needed Z10 upgrade phone? It's called marketing. Z10, Z30, Z.... This educates and informs the public.| Also, weren't they still sitting on a boat load Z10s?
    Did you not read? I'll quote myself.

    they couldn't get it to be cheap enough for those emerging markets and it didn't do all that well.
    Much needed Z10 upgrade? Sitting on a boatload of Z10's? The Z10 was a massive failure prompting Blackberry to write off one billion dollars worth of unsold Z10 devices. It seems to me that very few wanted or even needed a Z10 upgrade.



    Posted via CB10
    02-11-17 07:19 PM
  15. markmall's Avatar
    Here is the link to BB's financial reports: Financial Documents - United States

    As an example, here is the 1Q15 report: http://us.blackberry.com/content/dam...ss_Release.pdf

    The relevant quote from that quarter is:



    You can look at other reports before and after and see the progression. Chen has been burning this liability down since he started.
    Yes, I saw this. How much can we extract from this without speculating? How much of this was the outdated SoC that went into the Classic?

    Whatever the case, I don't think Chen launched products knowing that they would fail. I don't think he knows how to launch a smartphone which is why TCL is betting it can make money off of BlackBerry when Chen can't on his own.

    Posted via CB10
    02-11-17 07:30 PM
  16. markmall's Avatar
    You're aware we can tell you didn't read anything there, yes?
    I have to admit it's gotten a little stale while they ruminate over their other investments. I posted there quite often though in 2013 and after.

    Posted via CB10
    02-11-17 07:31 PM
  17. markmall's Avatar
    Did you not read? I'll quote myself.



    Much needed Z10 upgrade? Sitting on a boatload of Z10's? The Z10 was a massive failure prompting Blackberry to write off one billion dollars worth of unsold Z10 devices. It seems to me that very few wanted or even needed a Z10 upgrade.



    Posted via CB10
    How many people do you think bought Z10s versus the Priv? The Priv got a follow-up but the Z10 didn't (sort of through Z30 but no Z50, etc.).

    Posted via CB10
    02-11-17 07:33 PM
  18. app_Developer's Avatar

    Whatever the case, I don't think Chen launched products knowing that they would fail.
    So let's recap: Chen had 3 different strategies to choose from:

    1.) Kill the hardware division immediately. This was not smart because he would have had to pay out billions in cancelled purchase commitments (even if they were discounted, it was still hundreds of millions)
    2.) He could have invested more into hardware, including advertising and including new SoC's. If the board had wanted this option, they wouldn't have hired Chen in the first place.
    3.) He could take a middle ground (half-*** as you called it), where he produces small quantities of phones with the commitments they had already made, and then sell as many of those as he could to the fanbase and enterprise customers without spending a lot of money on advertising or new SoC's.

    Which of those do you think he did? We don't need to speculate, we already can see he chose #3. He obviously didn't choose #1, and he obviously didn't choose #2.

    With a little bit of basic logic and a little business sense and a basic understanding of their financial position (clearly stated in their reports), anyone can work out why #3 was the best choice.
    southlander likes this.
    02-11-17 09:01 PM
  19. markmall's Avatar
    So let's recap: Chen had 3 different strategies to choose from:

    1.) Kill the hardware division immediately. This was not smart because he would have had to pay out billions in cancelled purchase commitments (even if they were discounted, it was still hundreds of millions)
    2.) He could have invested more into hardware, including advertising and including new SoC's. If the board had wanted this option, they wouldn't have hired Chen in the first place.
    3.) He could take a middle ground (half-*** as you called it), where he produces small quantities of phones with the commitments they had already made, and then sell as many of those as he could to the fanbase and enterprise customers without spending a lot of money on advertising or new SoC's.

    Which of those do you think he did? We don't need to speculate, we already can see he chose #3. He obviously didn't choose #1, and he obviously didn't choose #2.

    With a little bit of basic logic and a little business sense and a basic understanding of their financial position (clearly stated in their reports), anyone can work out why #3 was the best choice.
    The problem with this conclusion is that he used the same launch strategy with his android phones. He failed in marketing them adequately and they languished on store shelves. No one knew that blackberry existed or the Priv existed just like during the BB10 phone launches.

    So maybe the only conclusion to draw is that Chen does everything half-a--ed.

    Also I still think you are exaggerating the SoC commitment numbers and also making a lot of assumptions. Wasn't it only $1.3B in parts and $300M in assembly? And how do you know how much of this were SoCs versus something like screens or cases that could be used in a blackdroid phone just as easily as a BB10 phone? You have no idea. None of us do.

    This is why it's so frustrating talking about this. You guys talk like you have facts you don't have.

    Posted via CB10
    02-11-17 11:42 PM
  20. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    The problem with this conclusion is that he used the same launch strategy with his android phones. He failed in marketing them adequately and they languished on store shelves. No one knew that blackberry existed or the Priv existed just like during the BB10 phone launches.

    So maybe the only conclusion to draw is that Chen does everything half-a--ed.


    Posted via CB10
    No, that's not the ONLY conclusion to draw. It is the conclusion that you wish to draw.

    A very popular conclusion is that Chen was not brought on as CEO to save BB10. He was brought on as CEO to SAVE BLACKBERRY!
    02-12-17 12:00 AM
  21. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    The problem with this conclusion is that he used the same launch strategy with his android phones. He failed in marketing them adequately and they languished on store shelves. No one knew that blackberry existed or the Priv existed just like during the BB10 phone launches.

    So maybe the only conclusion to draw is that Chen does everything half-a--ed.

    Also I still think you are exaggerating the SoC commitment numbers and also making a lot of assumptions. Wasn't it only $1.3B in parts and $300M in assembly? And how do you know how much of this were SoCs versus something like screens or cases that could be used in a blackdroid phone just as easily as a BB10 phone? You have no idea. None of us do.

    This is why it's so frustrating talking about this. You guys talk like you have facts you don't have.

    Posted via CB10
    Why get frustrated?

    You're entitled to believe what you want, and I actually admire you're ability to remain resolute.

    Regardless of what anyone says, one indisputable (I hope) fact is clear: BB10 was a commercial failure.
    Fret Madden likes this.
    02-12-17 12:16 AM
  22. ZeroBarrier's Avatar
    No one cares that blackberry exists or the Priv existed just like during the BB10 phone launches.
    Fixed that for you.



    Posted via CB10
    02-12-17 01:03 AM
  23. markmall's Avatar
    No, that's not the ONLY conclusion to draw. It is the conclusion that you wish to draw.

    A very popular conclusion is that Chen was not brought on as CEO to save BB10. He was brought on as CEO to SAVE BLACKBERRY!
    I don't think he saved Blackberry. He is playing venture capitalist under the shell of a publicly traded company.
    02-12-17 02:02 AM
  24. markmall's Avatar
    Why get frustrated?

    You're entitled to believe what you want, and I actually admire you're ability to remain resolute.

    Regardless of what anyone says, one indisputable (I hope) fact is clear: BB10 was a commercial failure.
    I consider that a small victory that I'm allowed to have my opinions. But one thing I want to make clear from my perspective: BB10 did not fail Blackberry; Blackberry failed BB10.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    02-12-17 02:18 AM
  25. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I consider that a small victory that I'm allowed to have my opinions. But one thing I want to make clear from my perspective: BB10 did not fail Blackberry; Blackberry failed BB10.
    I would agree with that. Proper execution (which includes timing IMHO) goes a long way.
    02-12-17 02:21 AM
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