05-11-17 01:56 PM
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  1. Nikola Stojic's Avatar
    Just fork the Playstore, or partner with Amazon and be done with it. That clause is anti-competitive and they know it. It would not pass in any court, but no one is going to court since they want to use Google for gain. Sorry, but ending with dead device, because of stupid pro-security stance, that doesn't bring the money at the moment at the consumer level but is totally fine at higher level, is essentially stupid. Do you know why Playbook is dead, even though the hardware is good? It's because BlackBerry being stupid about it. Oh security, yeah sure, but who the hell even uses it anymore? What are your security standards good for if you end on with device that no one wants and no one wants to use. Second, why do we even need you? Oh yeah right, sometime ago your server error caused the massive WiFi problems on every BlackBerry device on the planet. Why does the wifi need to be connected to your servers? It's your problem what you do with your devices, but it's another problem when people buy it. If you go down, we don't to end with devices that will be handicapped because of your stupid "design" and because we wouldn't be able to revitalize them by loading the Android or whatever the OS we want. You already gave your encryption keys to who knows how many governments, but are still complaining about not wanting to unlock bootloader. You need to get something BlackBerry, and that's the customer's freedom to do what the hell he wants with the device. You yourself are denying that freedom by lying about the OS, closing down all the routes for the development, and by not open sourcing it and unlocking the bootloader.
    1. Unlock the bootloader for both PlayBook and BB10 phones
    2. Open-source the entire OS stripped from licensed parts
    3. Give us the ability to make custom signed keys for it.

    Maybe then BlackBerry will finally do something for its customers. Looks what HP did, it isn't that hard. You can always sell the BlackBerry OS to more mobile development capable company
    Last edited by Nikola Stojic; 04-14-16 at 08:34 PM.
    04-14-16 12:05 PM
  2. anon(9607753)'s Avatar
    Okay, now you're just being dense.

    It's called "CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS". And they are very much "LEGALLY BINDING".

    Ever hear of companies suing other companies over something called "Breach of Contract"? Amounts can be in the millions of dollars - something that BlackBerry has a limited amount of.

    If BlackBerry wanted to be involved with Google, Google absolutely can dictate the terms of that agreement. If BlackBerry wanted to say "No" to terminating android runtime development further, Google would simply say "Well, we are out of here. Good luck with that BB10 thing all by yourself".

    You are correct that Google can't arbitrarily force BlackBerry to stop the android runtime development out of thin air. But Google absolutely can say "If you want our Android OS with full Google Play Store and Play Services installed on your new device (the Priv), then you have to stop further development of your android runtime in your other OS". BlackBerry can either agree to that or not. BlackBerry was not forced to make the agreement. They choose to agree to it.

    That's how Google deals with all of their device making partners. They can all sell other devices with other full OSs - Windows being the other primary OS that most Android device makers but on other devices. But NONE of them sell a device with a forked version of Android, nor are they allowed to sell dual-boot type devices that have both Android and some other OS. ASUS tried that several years ago - and Google raised that "Breach of Contract" thing. Lawyers called lawyers, and that idea died fast.

    No, we are not ever going to actually see the agreement between Google and BlackBerry. Those things are always kept confidential. But just simple facts of events tells us all we need to know. Last October was when BlackBerry made the announcement on their developer blog that the runtime was stopping where it was. One month after the Priv was announced. They did say that the current android runtime was not being removed from the OS, only that the runtime would not go beyond the "current release", and that they will continue to support "the current release". An update for BlackBerry 10 Developers | BlackBerry Developer Blog

    I don't know how much clearer it can be.
    You have been plenty clear enough. No proof any such agreement exists that restricts BlackBerry from updating the ART on BB10. If you find it, let us know.

    Posted via CB10
    04-14-16 01:42 PM
  3. anon(9607753)'s Avatar
    So in other words, you really can't think of a *single* company in the world who has a license for google play and also continues to develop their own AOSP fork. That may be a clue as to a provision Google requires for Play, isn't it? Why do you think Samsung has Tizen, and not just their own Android fork (which would be a heck of a lot smarter)?

    Look, there will be no 4.4 and no new API levels available in BB10's Android runtime. There are a few people here trying to explain to you why. Happy to revisit this if that ever changes.
    Again, BlackBerry is NOT like any of those other Android manufacturers because unlike them, BlackBerry also has BB10. A fork of Android is still Android so your comparison is invalid. BlackBerry themselves have said they would not update the ART on BB10. That is a business decision. Probably very few people left at BlackBerry capable of doing it anyway, even if they were to change their minds. However no one at BlackBerry ever said it had anything to with Google, nor can anyone prove that it did.

    Posted via CB10
    04-14-16 01:57 PM
  4. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Just fork the Playstore,
    The Google Play Store is a service, not a piece of open-source software. How do you propose forking it?


    or partner with Amazon and be done with it.
    Get Android apps on your BlackBerry 10 smartphone! Download your favorite Android apps & games from the Amazon Appstore. - United States
    That worked out well.


    That clause is anti-competitive and they know it. It would not pass in any court, but no one is going to court since they want to use Google for gain.
    What clause? What nonsense are you talking about, here?


    You have been plenty clear enough. No proof any such agreement exists that restricts BlackBerry from updating the ART on BB10. If you find it, let us know.
    Nope, nobody here has any proof that such an agreement exists. But once again, it doesn't really matter why the Android Runtime won't be updated. What matters is the fact that it won't be updated.
    JeepBB and Maxxxpower like this.
    04-14-16 02:25 PM
  5. Iggy City's Avatar
    Dude forget the runtime.

    My sources in Waterloo say the Hypervisor Version 2.0 will be in public beta in May.

    I'm so excited, finally BlackBerry is back baby, stock will be shooting up to $20..
    103683, JeepBB, Maxxxpower and 1 others like this.
    04-14-16 02:53 PM
  6. joeldf's Avatar
    You have been plenty clear enough. No proof any such agreement exists that restricts BlackBerry from updating the ART on BB10. If you find it, let us know.

    Posted via CB10
    As Elephant_Canyon posted before me, BlackBerry's own announcement that further updating of the ART has stopped tells us all we need to know.

    The last item in the development environments list (Android Runtime for BlackBerry 10) in the link I provided in my previous post tells the story.

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-14-16 04:02 PM
  7. Nikola Stojic's Avatar
    The Google Play Store is a service, not a piece of open-source software. How do you propose forking it?


    Get Android apps on your BlackBerry 10 smartphone! Download your favorite Android apps & games from the Amazon Appstore. - United States
    That worked out well.


    What clause? What nonsense are you talking about, here?



    Nope, nobody here has any proof that such an agreement exists. But once again, it doesn't really matter why the Android Runtime won't be updated. What matters is the fact that it won't be updated.
    Do your homework first. Google has clause saying that no partner of their's is going to use any kind of customized OS and create their own fork of android. Next, read it first before coming and commenting here about nonsense since that's what you haven't done in first place, else you would know it is based on facts. Amazon store is integrated yes, but not on the level it could be with BB10. Face it, Amazon store is nowhere near the level of Google Play Store. A native store, with Amazon infrastructure could do wonders.
    04-14-16 08:39 PM
  8. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Do your homework first. Google has clause saying that no partner of their's is going to use any kind of customized OS and create their own fork of android.
    Okay, post the clause. Then we'll see whether it's anti-competitive, or whether it would hold up in court. Also, what , exactly, do you think "anti-competitive" means?

    Amazon store is integrated yes, but not on the level it could be with BB10. Face it, Amazon store is nowhere near the level of Google Play Store. A native store, with Amazon infrastructure could do wonders.
    To what level could it be integrated? What do you mean by "native store?" Pretty sure the Amazon App Store counts as "Amazon infrastructure." What specific differences would any of this make?
    04-14-16 09:45 PM
  9. Nikola Stojic's Avatar
    Okay, post the clause. Then we'll see whether it's anti-competitive, or whether it would hold up in court. Also, what , exactly, do you think "anti-competitive" means?


    To what level could it be integrated? What do you mean by "native store?" Pretty sure the Amazon App Store counts as "Amazon infrastructure." What specific differences would any of this make?
    Use the BlackBerry Native app, similar to the BBWorld, work with Amazon to integrate it and leverage that infrastructure to get better software than what we have now. If BB worked with Amazon they could have improved their store and get Amazon something better for BB10 platform.]

    Oh and here is your clause:
    [3.4 You agree that you will not take any actions that may cause or result in the fragmentation of Android, including but not limited to distributing, participating in the creation of, or promoting in any way a software development kit derived from the SDK.
    Now let's test that clause in Real case scenario: Is Aliyun OS really Linux? Android? A rip-off of both? | ZDNet . Acer basically left the development of their own Android fork, since they would be denied the access to Google Play Store.
    app_Developer likes this.
    04-15-16 03:31 AM
  10. ohaiguise's Avatar
    They DO still run Android apps. Never once has Blackberry said they will run ALL Android apps FOREVER. Nobody in their right mind would make that blanket statement.
    Enjoy your Privvy.
    04-15-16 08:02 AM
  11. bandpass's Avatar
    Nope. When BlackBerry used Android for the Priv, there was an agreement that BlackBerry 10 wouldn't have an ART update, and if BlackBerry does, Google can revoke Google Play access to the Priv and any future Android BlackBerrys.

     Z10 STL100-3/10.3.2.2876
    Then kill Priv and the like.

    And complain to the EU.

    Class action lawsuits would not be out of place either.
    04-18-16 10:19 AM
  12. Alexandre Faustino's Avatar
    I don't think it will happen until they open their eyes and give up on Android.
    04-18-16 11:17 AM
  13. kvndoom's Avatar
    Enjoy your Privvy.
    I hope you're a teenager. At least then you'd have an excuse for acting like one.
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    04-18-16 03:52 PM
  14. ohaiguise's Avatar
    I hope you're a teenager. At least then you'd have an excuse for acting like one.
    No.

    Enjoy your Privvy.
    Trist likes this.
    04-22-16 12:55 PM
  15. psskid's Avatar
    What does this mean?


    Posted via CB10
    04-22-16 04:55 PM
  16. psskid's Avatar
    Dude forget the runtime.

    My sources in Waterloo say the Hypervisor Version 2.0 will be in public beta in May.

    I'm so excited, finally BlackBerry is back baby, stock will be shooting up to $20..
    What does this mean?

    Posted via CB10
    04-22-16 04:56 PM
  17. thurask's Avatar
    What does this mean?

    Posted via CB10
    It's a joke.
    04-22-16 05:11 PM
  18. psskid's Avatar
    Ya know. Lol. I knew I was having a messed up day. .. I'm going to bed..

    Posted via CB10
    04-22-16 07:26 PM
  19. ss569768's Avatar
    It's not about the BB10 runtime, it's about the PRIV and it having access to Google Play. Too be honest I've never seen or heard anything that confirmed that BlackBerry was contractual prohibited, or even a member of the OHA. But most likely in order to get access to Google Apps there was a contract that did put some limitations on both the runtime and "new" BB10 devices. (and I bet Chen didn't want it made public, as it would have confirmed an end to BB10 and BB10 devices at that time)
    05-11-17 01:56 PM
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