1. Vistaus's Avatar
    BBOS7 isn't being supported since July 2014.

    Software Support Life Cycle - Canada
    Very shocking then that the Dutch National Police is using unsupported software.

    Posted via CB10
    11-10-15 01:40 AM
  2. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    This chart doesn't say much about the reasons. It doesn't show WHAT devices have been sold. The second half of the chart is dominated by the presence of the Passport and the Classic. Both are devices for a niche, the first one for those who want definitely be different, the latter one for those who are still old fashioned. Both niches are legitimate, but you can't build a mass market on them. That's strange: building niche products and complain small sales. Since RIM didn't offer new and modern full touch devices following and replacing the Z30 for a long time this chart is not representative for the market potential of OS10, first of all it shows a device crisis. The second point is: RIM didn't do much in the OS. They never gave a definitive statement, the avoid to communicate until today, they never brought conclusive new features, they even didn't fix damned bugs and inadequateness known for years like in the Contacts and the Calendar apps. The chart would look different if they did.
    You have just made a bunch of excuses why BB10 didn't sell well. I'm sure there's some truth in what you say. You place the blame on BlackBerry and that is where it belongs. None of this refutes my point. Just to be clear BB10 did not sell well. I'm not saying its a bad os, just having some fun with supe's logic.
    11-10-15 02:17 AM
  3. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Very shocking then that the Dutch National Police is using unsupported software.

    Posted via CB10
    So are you admitting you were wrong or asserting that the dutch popo have an extended support contract?
    11-10-15 02:23 AM
  4. rhoric's Avatar
    Blackberry has not put its foot down saying there will be no more BB10 devices period. They are still in the device market. Until they do so we don't know what is gonna happen

    Posted via CB10
    11-10-15 04:04 AM
  5. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Blackberry has not put its foot down saying there will be no more BB10 devices period. They are still in the device market. Until they do so we don't know what is gonna happen

    Posted via CB10
    Says you.
    You don't know what I or anyone else knows.
    Last edited by DrBoomBotz; 11-10-15 at 05:02 AM.
    Vistaus likes this.
    11-10-15 04:49 AM
  6. muellerto's Avatar
    Blackberry has not put its foot down saying there will be no more BB10 devices period.
    This is the typical way they communicate.
    Until they do so we don't know what is gonna happen
    This is the typical way the BB customer does.

    Thinking loud: I have no doubt that one of the biggest problems in this company is a communication problem, a culture of not communicating. And just announcing only the next surprizing corner point of an endless zig zag course at a time is not what I call proper communication.
    Killjoyhere likes this.
    11-10-15 04:50 AM
  7. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Very shocking then that the Dutch National Police is using unsupported software.

    Posted via CB10
    I had a look around the web and found this
    Dutch police force reportedly replaces old BlackBerries with Samsung Galaxy S5 | PhonesLTD.

    The article is dated 2014-05-21 and it says the Dutch police would be replacing their old blackBerries with the Samsung Galaxy S5.
    The article was published 2 months before the end of sales and support date for BBOS 7 as per Software Support Life Cycle - Canada.

    The article mentioned that the police could use the S5's fingerprint scanner to take and check fingerprints. Also mentions KNOX and ip67.
    11-10-15 05:16 AM
  8. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    Just to be clear BB10 did not sell well. I'm not saying its a bad os, just having some fun with supe's logic.
    The correct term would be "superlogic", but that aside, capitalism doesn't forbid to sell junk.

    And if we look at the fragmented Android world, we should be honest and conclude that the consumers love the junk.
    iOS and BB10 users typically get the latest OS version, and in this context, if I compare the iOS bugs reported in the media with the BB10 bugs, I am very happy with the BB10 releases.

    One note in this context:
    I visited the Google Playstore and there I saw a lots of bad reviews for so many apps,and I also didn't find that many useful apps for me, because most of these apps are also available at BBRY's appstore or already built-in (like the torch or story maker for example).
    I agree that a certain app gap exists for a significant number of users, but my point is that I just wonder what would happen if Android users could experience BB10 (and the available BB 10 apps) for a few weeks.
    My personal experience is that the average user doesn't miss anything on BB10.

    Still I believe overall that OS 10.3 is too good to be ignored by the market and they will actually bring further improvments in 2016.
    I somewhat understand BBRY's situation and why they act as they do, but I wouldn't write off BB10 that quickly.
    JC isn't sentimental neither pro nor against BB10, let's wait and see his next moves.
    Killjoyhere likes this.
    11-10-15 05:30 AM
  9. mundo472's Avatar
    Yes they did. It's called the Priv. Seriously, as a BB10 developer and a software developer for over 20 years, all you have to do is see the lack of development on the BB10 OS to see that they have no plans to continue with it. You can't release a new phone with old software. The promised 10.3.3 and 10.3.4 are just service pack releases to support government contracts.
    Agreed.
    Hoping for a Priv 2 with a better camera, front AND back. I expect software will take care of the other glitches I'm hearing from owners. I'll probably hang around with my beloved z30 until March and if there is no sign of something like this, will accept the inevitable and move on. Already deliberately using the dis likable android os on my Nex7 more so it's not such a shock on the system.

    Posted via CB10
    11-10-15 08:57 AM
  10. crucial bbq's Avatar
    I really struggle to understand this blind faith in BB10.
    Is this some kind of magical thinking?
    If one believes really strongly in the Great Pumpkin BB10 it will bring presents for all the little boys and girls?
    It is not blind faith for me. I have no expectation for new BB10 handsets based on my own wishes, however, understanding how BlackBerry does things, how they communicate, and more importantly how Chen communicates, and some of their niche markets, it seems plausible that at least one more BB10 device will be released in 2016. For one, Chen continues to allude to the idea of BB10 sticking around for those with "high security" needs. Second, the phone would not need the latest and most up to date specs. BlackBerry could go with the best chips from 2014/2015 to keep costs down while still providing performance boosts. The app gap would be even worse than it is now, sure, but as long as the apps needed by enterprise, not joe blow consumer, are there is all that matters.

    This phone, if it were to be released, could see very limited numbers production runs. Ubuntu phone, as well as some of the smaller Chinese vendors for Android, do this. That is, they do small runs of 40K or so each batch. BlackBerry already did this with the Passport, Classic, and Leap but here limited production was around 200K or so each batch.

    With 7 Billion people on this planet and growing, Ubuntu, FirefoxOS, Jolla Sailfish, Windows Phone, Amazon Fire, and the dozens of fragmented Android handsets in Asia, there is room for something other than "Google Android" and iOS.

    Not true. Betamax was a much better product than VHS and VHS won.
    I knew some audiophiles who preferred the Betamax format for its superior sound qualities, but Betamax lost out because Sony touted how technologically advanced the format was while 'VHS' vendors said, "Yeah, well who cares about technology when you can record an entire weeks worth of soap operas onto a single cassette." Even though the LP VHS format suffered in quality, that didn't matter to consumers. Ironically, the "ecosystem" of VHS won out.

    So, if I am reading your analogy correctly, Betamax here is BB10 with VHS being Android. Incidentally the Betamax format digitized and continued to be used in television studios well into the 2000s. If I remember correctly, it was not until around 2007 or so when the format was finally EOL'd even though it ceased to be relevant to consumers by the early 80s. Bottom line; the "dead" Betamax format continued to live on where it matter most--television studios--for well over two decades after the public had lost interests.

    BlackBerry is in a similar position with enterprise.

    This chart doesn't say much about the reasons. It doesn't show WHAT devices have been sold. The second half of the chart is dominated by the presence of the Passport and the Classic. Both are devices for a niche, the first one for those who want definitely be different, the latter one for those who are still old fashioned. Both niches are legitimate, but you can't build a mass market on them. That's strange: building niche products and complain small sales. Since RIM didn't offer new and modern full touch devices following and replacing the Z30 for a long time this chart is not representative for the market potential of OS10, first of all it shows a device crisis. The second point is: RIM didn't do much in the OS. They never gave a definitive statement, the avoid to communicate until today, they never brought conclusive new features, they even didn't fix damned bugs and inadequateness known for years like in the Contacts and the Calendar apps. The chart would look different if they did.
    The 2015 peak is obviously from Passport and Classic sales. To add, these sales were also likely to early adopters of BB10 and to those coming from BBOS7. However there are still a lot of 2013ers who picked up Z10s and Z30s, who do not want a pkb, who have nothing to upgrade to. Chen could put out that Z50 and while sales would not be phenomenal he could at least move 2-3 million units easily by the end of 2016.

    I am not sure if the chart would look differently had BlackBerry addressed bug issues but launching with a crippled BB10 in the beginning surely did not help. What hurt BlackBerry most of all was simply public perception and pricing: this is your grand daddy's phone for dinosaurs and it's gonna cost you a pretty penny to boot. BB10 could have launched with every known app in the universe and it still would have struggled. Why? Because BlackBerry was not concerned with educating the public about their OS. Forget about advertising, I am talking about the sales force who worked on commission and steered potential buyers away from BB10 to Android (because, at least as of a few years ago, Apple offers no incentives to sell phones other than the iPhone gets customers to use the service. That is, iPhones produced no commission).

    This is largely due, based on my understanding, of Heins' focus on retaining current customers instead of acquiring new ones. That is, his short term goal was to simply keep existing BlackBerry users on BlackBerry. Understand it or not, BlackBerry is now taking a different approach. The website redesign, the focus on the Priv being the phone for everyone, etc. is going to help shape public perception. Now when you check blackberry dot com you not immediately met with a page about enterprise and what-not.
    11-10-15 12:12 PM
  11. ohaiguise's Avatar
    There won't be any more BB10 devices. Sorry.
    Nonsense, poopy-pants.
    DrBoomBotz and Vistaus like this.
    11-10-15 01:47 PM
  12. Matty's Avatar
    Possibly a Classic and/or Leap rehash.

    *C5303
    Actually it's the P'9984

    It's the Porsche Design Version of the Passport

    It's due for a Mid March release.

    Posted via CB10
    11-10-15 03:08 PM
  13. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    BBOS7 isn't being supported since July 2014.

    Software Support Life Cycle - Canada
    7.0
    7.1 is still supported. But I doubt we'll ever see another update.
    Superdupont 2_0 and Vistaus like this.
    11-10-15 03:10 PM
  14. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Sony will stop selling beta max tapes next year. The tape format has been used in the music and broadcast industry for years. A remarkable manufacturing run for the "loosing" technology. You can still buy VHS tapes as well, but I would not be surprised if in the end Beta tapes actually outsold VHS due to how they have been used.
    11-10-15 05:51 PM
  15. zhb's Avatar
    Actually it's the P'9984

    It's the Porsche Design Version of the Passport

    It's due for a Mid March release.
    Cannot wait.

    P9983 with 2GB memory is not good to run Android apps (but removable battery is great), I hope BlackBerry can release this P9984 soon.

    Posted via CB10
    11-10-15 10:09 PM
  16. rcsgolf's Avatar
    Says you.
    You don't know what I or anyone else knows.
    And what might that be? Go ahead and enlighten us.
    11-10-15 11:14 PM
  17. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    And what might that be? Go ahead and enlighten us.
    I'm keeping it to myself.
    Last edited by DrBoomBotz; 11-11-15 at 01:27 AM.
    11-10-15 11:31 PM
  18. muellerto's Avatar
    I want to introduce another thought here: would it be possible to go open source with BB10? Why not have a real open source mobile OS? BB could host this project and assist further development. Sure, there were big steps to do: open the OS to other devices from other manufacturers, provide better update mechanisms without 3rd party tools, much better app store and website. But this all must not be done at once, this could happen in small steps over years.
    11-11-15 01:42 AM
  19. Vistaus's Avatar
    I had a look around the web and found this
    Dutch police force reportedly replaces old BlackBerries with Samsung Galaxy S5 | PhonesLTD.

    The article is dated 2014-05-21 and it says the Dutch police would be replacing their old blackBerries with the Samsung Galaxy S5.
    The article was published 2 months before the end of sales and support date for BBOS 7 as per Software Support Life Cycle - Canada.

    The article mentioned that the police could use the S5's fingerprint scanner to take and check fingerprints. Also mentions KNOX and ip67.
    Yet they haven't replace their BlackBerries yet. They decided to keep them because of the NSA spying which they needed a secure platform for. A couple of popo's have iPhones as part of a BlackBerry replacement pilot, but that's about it. No one has a Samsung, that plan never went through. I know, because I am Dutch *and* am involved with the police (in a good way).

    Posted via CB10
    11-11-15 01:47 AM
  20. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Yet they haven't replace their BlackBerries yet. They decided to keep them because of the NSA spying which they needed a secure platform for. A couple of popo's have iPhones as part of a BlackBerry replacement pilot, but that's about it. No one has a Samsung, that plan never went through. I know, because I am Dutch *and* am involved with the police (in a good way).

    Posted via CB10
    Do you know if they have a extended service contract?
    11-11-15 02:28 AM
  21. Matty's Avatar
    Do you know if they have a extended service contract?
    There are still companies out there running Windows XP even though the "Support" has been cancelled because they have special agreements with Microsoft to keep supporting them until they decide to switch over to Windows 7 or 10.

    I'm sure BlackBerry have the same thing with many companies. BlackBerry OS 7.1 will be around for a while still. They released a 9720 in Mid 2013 so upgrade contracts will only be running out now.

    Guaranteed, at least 1 more year of full support.

    Posted via CB10
    11-11-15 04:07 AM
  22. cbbb90's Avatar
    I want to introduce another thought here: would it be possible to go open source with BB10? Why not have a real open source mobile OS? BB could host this project and assist further development. Sure, there were big steps to do: open the OS to other devices from other manufacturers, provide better update mechanisms without 3rd party tools, much better app store and website. But this all must not be done at once, this could happen in small steps over years.
    Let's hope it doesn't come to this, but if it does, I would welcome the open source opportunity. Potentially, the system could also remain a secure alternative if some of the open source encryption projects, etc., were also incorporated.
    11-11-15 04:56 AM
  23. Kryngle's Avatar
    Cannot wait.

    P9983 with 2GB memory is not good to run Android apps (but removable battery is great), I hope BlackBerry can release this P9984 soon.

    Posted via CB10
    And who says it's gonna run Android? It's only BUILT for BlackBerry that runs OS10...

    Posted via CB10
    11-11-15 06:31 PM
  24. Vistaus's Avatar
    Let's hope it doesn't come to this, but if it does, I would welcome the open source opportunity. Potentially, the system could also remain a secure alternative if some of the open source encryption projects, etc., were also incorporated.
    Hope they'll also give us the opportunity to unlock our devices, or at least the Passport and Classic and Z30. I mean: if a 3rd party dev is gonna pick up BB10 development using the open sourced code, then it'd be nice to get any improvements on our devices from said development. Unlocking the devices wouldn't be a problem, as long as they'll make the process not too easy as to not compromise security but just doable enough for us loyalists.

    Posted via CB10
    11-12-15 01:57 AM
  25. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Hope they'll also give us the opportunity to unlock our devices, or at least the Passport and Classic and Z30. I mean: if a 3rd party dev is gonna pick up BB10 development using the open sourced code, then it'd be nice to get any improvements on our devices from said development. Unlocking the devices wouldn't be a problem, as long as they'll make the process not too easy as to not compromise security but just doable enough for us loyalists.

    Posted via CB10
    BlackBerry will never release the BB10 OS into open source. There are too much work to remove any patents and once complete, you wouldn't end up with BB10 OS. They are not going to waste any money making it open source. Although I would love for them to and I would be the first to download and work on it.
    11-12-15 04:54 PM
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