08-02-16 11:14 PM
34 12
tools
  1. Anadi Athaley's Avatar
    BlackBerry is known for security. The first thing one talks about when you talk about a BlackBerry device is that, be it BBOS or BB10...

    But I think there are a lot of features which BB10 is missing in terms of 'security', the way a common consumer might understand.

    For instance, there is no way to lock the hub, or any app for that matter, once someone has access to your phone (even it is by fluke), there is no second level of security as far as access to messages, pictures or other files are concerned...there is no way you can lock the camera or BBM for that matter.

    My point is, there needs to be basic 'visible' security options, in order to make it completely secured handset.

    What do you think?

    On my Z10
    06-28-14 07:45 AM
  2. rickie8649's Avatar
    Having an extra level of security would be nice. Password to gain access to the photos/messages and such. I wonder why blackberry hasn't put this in yet.

    Posted via CB10
    06-28-14 07:49 AM
  3. MiSsY_'s Avatar
    There as a large variety of those types of apps in BlackBerry World


    Posted via CB10 from my Z30
    06-28-14 08:06 AM
  4. benny4u_06's Avatar
    BlackBerry is known for security. The first thing one talks about when you talk about a BlackBerry device is that, be it BBOS or BB10...

    But I think there are a lot of features which BB10 is missing in terms of 'security', the way a common consumer might understand.

    For instance, there is no way to lock the hub, or any app for that matter, once someone has access to your phone (even it is by fluke), there is no second level of security as far as access to messages, pictures or other files are concerned...there is no way you can lock the camera or BBM for that matter.

    My point is, there needs to be basic 'visible' security options, in order to make it completely secured handset.

    What do you think?

    On my Z10
    I fully support your opinion.

    Posted via CB10
    06-28-14 08:19 AM
  5. Anadi Athaley's Avatar
    None of those apps serve the purpose well...and none of them are native..

    On my Z10
    06-28-14 08:19 AM
  6. tdaye's Avatar
    If someone is guessing your password that easily, then it's clearly too easy. No need for a second layer of security if you set a good password. The last thing I want to have to do it remember 5 passwords for my phone.

    Posted via CB10
    06-28-14 08:43 AM
  7. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Having an extra level of security would be nice. Password to gain access to the photos/messages and such. I wonder why blackberry hasn't put this in yet.

    Posted via CB10
    Well they have for their most security conscious users. Balance provides a separate container for work data. It can be configured to require a password. So if you are tied to a BES you can have a password on the whole phone and one to then access the work container.

    For most consumers a good password on the phone and SDCARD encryption are more than enough. If not, then they should consider the full spectrum security available from a BES.

    Posted via CB10
    06-28-14 09:42 AM
  8. Anadi Athaley's Avatar
    If someone is guessing your password that easily, then it's clearly too easy. No need for a second layer of security if you set a good password. The last thing I want to have to do it remember 5 passwords for my phone.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm talking about giving an option to do that. If you don't want to do it, its upto you. But suppose you give your phone to a colleague to check a picture and he or she accidently invokes the hub, unknowingly, it would be great if you could password protect it, atleast some of us will, I don't want everyone to look at all my messages and maybe confidential mails...

    On my Z10
    eldricho likes this.
    06-29-14 06:56 AM
  9. Anadi Athaley's Avatar
    Well they have for their most security conscious users. Balance provides a separate container for work data. It can be configured to require a password. So if you are tied to a BES you can have a password on the whole phone and one to then access the work container.

    For most consumers a good password on the phone and SDCARD encryption are more than enough. If not, then they should consider the full spectrum security available from a BES.

    Posted via CB10
    You missed my point. the ability to lock a folder with a password is much more simpler. I don't think there is a need to subscribe to BES or have to use Balance to do something as simple.

    So essentially, if the phone is unlocked once, everything is accessible. There should be an option for that. And no, parental controls don't serve that purpose fully. Checkout Nemory's app, messenger and the way it is password protected.

    On my Z10
    06-29-14 07:02 AM
  10. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    You missed my point. the ability to lock a folder with a password is much more simpler. I don't think there is a need to subscribe to BES or have to use Balance to do something as simple.

    So essentially, if the phone is unlocked once, everything is accessible. There should be an option for that. And no, parental controls don't serve that purpose fully. Checkout Nemory's app, messenger and the way it is password protected.

    On my Z10
    It may be simpler from a user point of view, but much more complex to implement. You would need to implement a configurable set of passwords for applications, folders and files. This would make a larger attack surface than a security container, and would be more difficult to secure.

    Your example proves the point. It is quite easy for an application developer to password protect an application. Authentication only has to happen at startup and wakeup ( like Password Keeper ). To implement protection of arbitrary folders would require at least checking to see if authentication is required for each file system access.

    This would also come with a performance hit.

    Posted via CB10
    06-29-14 08:47 AM
  11. filanto's Avatar
    Why not use the bes10 cloud service and use the separate work profile and separate password for it. Use the picture password, short unlock period with encryption enabled. Also use a long password or pass phrase. If not use parental controls
    06-29-14 09:42 AM
  12. kbz1960's Avatar
    BlackBerry is known for security. The first thing one talks about when you talk about a BlackBerry device is that, be it BBOS or BB10...

    But I think there are a lot of features which BB10 is missing in terms of 'security', the way a common consumer might understand.

    For instance, there is no way to lock the hub, or any app for that matter, once someone has access to your phone (even it is by fluke), there is no second level of security as far as access to messages, pictures or other files are concerned...there is no way you can lock the camera or BBM for that matter.

    My point is, there needs to be basic 'visible' security options, in order to make it completely secured handset.

    What do you think?

    On my Z10
    If you want a completely secured handset don't ever give it to anyone ever and don't ever do anything on it
    06-29-14 09:48 AM
  13. K man13's Avatar
    I was thinking about this the other day. Would be great to have a button separately for this, you know you hold it for sometime before giving your phone to someone else and then extra layer of security kicks in.



    Posted via CB10
    06-29-14 02:06 PM
  14. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    I was thinking about this the other day. Would be great to have a button separately for this, you know you hold it for sometime before giving your phone to someone else and then extra layer of security kicks in.



    Posted via CB10
    Seems a lot of work to implement security from someone you're going to voluntarily give your phone to, but not security from potential malware you installed on your phone that can wait patiently until you open up the security to access your files.

    The idea why Balance is not just a password protected area. There are also restrictions on moving data between partitions, which applications that can run on the secure partition, etc.

    Posted via CB10
    06-29-14 06:53 PM
  15. agentfat2004's Avatar
    BlackBerry is known for security. The first thing one talks about when you talk about a BlackBerry device is that, be it BBOS or BB10...

    But I think there are a lot of features which BB10 is missing in terms of 'security', the way a common consumer might understand.

    For instance, there is no way to lock the hub, or any app for that matter, once someone has access to your phone (even it is by fluke), there is no second level of security as far as access to messages, pictures or other files are concerned...there is no way you can lock the camera or BBM for that matter.

    My point is, there needs to be basic 'visible' security options, in order to make it completely secured handset.

    What do you think?

    On my Z10
    I think something like this sounds like a good idea but is very hard to get right. From a security point of view, even if you were to password protect the files and fodlers app, it doesn't really prevent a user from using another file browser app or the like from viewing the files, so it may feel secure, but in terms of actual security it is just a facade. Password protecting the hub would make it not the quick access to email it is supposed to be. Also we have lock screen notifications, which may also leak some info, toast notifications which may also pop up stuff we wish others wouldn't see.However what you want isn't a bad thing, many times i passed my phone over for the user to see one picture, and they decide its time to browse my library and wished there was a way to do that.

    What may actually be doable, is a sort of freeze screen feature. where in order to unfreeze the device the user has to enter username and password, but whatever app is visibile is locked in a full screen mode and the user can view but not interact with the application except to enter credentials. But this is still a hard thing to do, maybe you want to share with them an email, i don't know what the experience would be like, can they scroll through the email, see all the threads in the email? What if you wanted them to be able to view a few pictures with them but not your entire album.
    Anyways, it has to be something that is really secure and not just give users a false sense of security. I like the scenario you describe, I think I am going to write a spec and post it in blackberry forums. I will make sure to link to the post so you get credit. Maybe blackberry sees it and adds it to the os
    Last edited by agentfat2004; 06-30-14 at 12:25 AM. Reason: grammar
    06-30-14 12:25 AM
  16. Anadi Athaley's Avatar
    It may be simpler from a user point of view, but much more complex to implement. You would need to implement a configurable set of passwords for applications, folders and files. This would make a larger attack surface than a security container, and would be more difficult to secure.

    Your example proves the point. It is quite easy for an application developer to password protect an application. Authentication only has to happen at startup and wakeup ( like Password Keeper ). To implement protection of arbitrary folders would require at least checking to see if authentication is required for each file system access.

    This would also come with a performance hit.

    Posted via CB10
    I understand how it might be a cumbersome process to implement.

    However, pardon me for saying this, but even android has a Applock app, which does exactly this, I have just seen it on a friend's phone, but haven't really used it in its entirety...so cannot comment on how secure it really is...

    But on the other hand, I pestered a very good friend of mine to switch from an iPhone to Z10 and he surprisingly did...and he got it and said to me, 'wow, so I am using the most secure phone in the world', and he added, so tell me how do I lock my whatsapp and bbm and pictures...? and I didn't know what to say...because there is simply no way...he needs all his pictures to be automatically locked, in a way that no one without the password can access his picture gallery...

    And the following months a lot of people I have pestered to buy or I know who are now on bb10 have asked me similar questions on security, and I think it is very important to have an option like this...

    I'm not sure how they would implement this in the hub, but it needs to be addressed...

    On my Z10
    06-30-14 06:38 AM
  17. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    I understand how it might be a cumbersome process to implement.

    However, pardon me for saying this, but even android has a Applock app, which does exactly this, I have just seen it on a friend's phone, but haven't really used it in its entirety...so cannot comment on how secure it really is...

    But on the other hand, I pestered a very good friend of mine to switch from an iPhone to Z10 and he surprisingly did...and he got it and said to me, 'wow, so I am using the most secure phone in the world', and he added, so tell me how do I lock my whatsapp and bbm and pictures...? and I didn't know what to say...because there is simply no way...he needs all his pictures to be automatically locked, in a way that no one without the password can access his picture gallery...

    And the following months a lot of people I have pestered to buy or I know who are now on bb10 have asked me similar questions on security, and I think it is very important to have an option like this...

    I'm not sure how they would implement this in the hub, but it needs to be addressed...

    On my Z10
    There are two solutions to this.

    One: stop pestering people to buy stuff unless you know it will meet their needs and can show them how first. You may think you are helping your friends and BlackBerry, but in the long run you're not helping either.

    Two: find out exactly what the threat against your friends pictures are. If he really needs his pictures that well protected he shouldn't be storing them on a mobile device.

    BlackBerry security is based on time tested security principles. But even then you don't have the most secure phone until you put it on a properly managed BES. One of these principles is that you never give access to the storage location of sensitive data even if it has an additional layer of protection. I'm sure that the NSA, CIA and other like organisations have secure safes for storing their data. But they don't let people off the street walk up and play with the locks.

    Any user level program that claims to provide security to other user level programs is immediately suspect. I haven't looked at the security model of the one you mention, but all I need to do, on Android, is convince a user to install an application with rooting code in it and it doesn't matter what "security" applications he has installed.

    I'm confident that whatever the security needs of your friend are they can be met by a BlackBerry device on a competencies managed BES. If his really requirement is that he wants to let friends use his phone but not see his pictures then an iPhone may be the right phone for him. But what does he do when he wants to show off pictures of his children, dog, cat etc?

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 10:16 AM
  18. Anadi Athaley's Avatar
    Well, I'm not sure about your first part. Apart from this and the contacts issue, I haven't had anyone say anything bad about their phones to me, most have said they are way better than the competitors.

    Secondly, look at so many apps which pretend to protect your images and the likes flooding the Blackberry World...it would be safe to say that this feature is in demand. just to get this, one doesn't need to switch to an iPhone, and I think it will only help blackberry to add something which is requested, unless it is difficult to implement in the os or almost impossible...but I m not sure whether that's the case...

    On my Z10
    06-30-14 11:30 AM
  19. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Well, I'm not sure about your first part. Apart from this and the contacts issue, I haven't had anyone say anything bad about their phones to me, most have said they are way better than the competitors.

    Secondly, look at so many apps which pretend to protect your images and the likes flooding the Blackberry World...it would be safe to say that this feature is in demand. just to get this, one doesn't need to switch to an iPhone, and I think it will only help blackberry to add something which is requested, unless it is difficult to implement in the os or almost impossible...but I m not sure whether that's the case...

    On my Z10
    Then perhaps securing pictures isn't all that important after all.

    It is easy to write an application and claim it will secure files, but doesn't. What most people want when they ask for a way so secure files, email, chat etc, is really a way to keep their partner, friends or boss from finding the files when casually using the phone.

    BlackBerry has already provided a way to get first class security that has been approved by many governments for the storage and communication of sensitive data. Why on earth would they implement something less than that? Especially when it would be more work than the best solution.

    I've read the descriptions of some of those applications. They are either data hiding applications, or don't describe how they secure the files. You shouldn't trust anyone who says that they will secure your data, but won't tell you how they are doing it. Security by obscurity is not security at all. If data hiding is what you want then there are lots to choose from. If data security is what you want, you need to discipline yourself, or use a BES which will ensure that discipline.

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 04:53 PM
  20. SnoozerBold's Avatar
    I was thinking about this the other day. Would be great to have a button separately for this, you know you hold it for sometime before giving your phone to someone else and then extra layer of security kicks in.



    Posted via CB10
    Translation: my coworker won't be able to see the Sexy pics of me and my gf.

    Posted via CB10. Over my carrier's data connection due to "Limited WiFi"
    06-30-14 04:57 PM
  21. K man13's Avatar
    Exactly and the other way around as well.. my gf won't be able to....

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 08:45 PM
  22. Anadi Athaley's Avatar
    Then perhaps securing pictures isn't all that important after all.

    It is easy to write an application and claim it will secure files, but doesn't. What most people want when they ask for a way so secure files, email, chat etc, is really a way to keep their partner, friends or boss from finding the files when casually using the phone.

    BlackBerry has already provided a way to get first class security that has been approved by many governments for the storage and communication of sensitive data. Why on earth would they implement something less than that? Especially when it would be more work than the best solution.

    I've read the descriptions of some of those applications. They are either data hiding applications, or don't describe how they secure the files. You shouldn't trust anyone who says that they will secure your data, but won't tell you how they are doing it. Security by obscurity is not security at all. If data hiding is what you want then there are lots to choose from. If data security is what you want, you need to discipline yourself, or use a BES which will ensure that discipline.

    Posted via CB10
    See, everyone doesn't need NSA proof security, for that matter most of the people don't even care, how valid is that is another question, that's the reason I have put 'visible' in the quotes, most people need privacy, and that's important. If that's not important to you, so be it, but arguing that others don't need it is an unnecessary discussion.

    On my awesome Zed 10!
    07-01-14 05:20 AM
  23. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    See, everyone doesn't need NSA proof security, for that matter most of the people don't even care, how valid is that is another question, that's the reason I have put 'visible' in the quotes, most people need privacy, and that's important. If that's not important to you, so be it, but arguing that others don't need it is an unnecessary discussion.

    On my awesome Zed 10!
    But you're asking for a company known for real security to throw a blanket over a stack of dirty magazines so your girlfriend won't see them. And what happens when a some penetrates this security or privacy screen at Black Hat or CanSecWest? SnapChat was recently spanked because the pictures sent through their services don't really disappear as they lead people to believe. What do you think would have happened in the press if SnapChat was a BlackBerry product.

    And I'm not saying that these privacy features aren't worth doing unless they are NSA proof. I'm saying that they aren't worth doing unless they can reliably perform as intended.

    If you think these file hiding utilities perform a useful function for you then use them. If you want a password on WhatsApp then as the developer for that feature.

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-14 08:54 AM
  24. Anadi Athaley's Avatar
    But you're asking for a company known for real security to throw a blanket over a stack of dirty magazines so your girlfriend won't see them. And what happens when a some penetrates this security or privacy screen at Black Hat or CanSecWest? SnapChat was recently spanked because the pictures sent through their services don't really disappear as they lead people to believe. What do you think would have happened in the press if SnapChat was a BlackBerry product.

    And I'm not saying that these privacy features aren't worth doing unless they are NSA proof. I'm saying that they aren't worth doing unless they can reliably perform as intended.

    If you think these file hiding utilities perform a useful function for you then use them. If you want a password on WhatsApp then as the developer for that feature.

    Posted via CB10
    Agreed.

    But, in BBOS, an app named iLock Pro exists, which does exactly this. It password protects anything you want to, including all the things I mentioned. When I saw iLock in BBW on BB10, I was very happy! But then it was a stripped down version of it, which cannot lock most of the things! It existed on BBOS and worked very well and downloads crossing 500,000 consumers, now why do you think it becomes un-doable on BB10?

    I understand BB10 has been built on an entirely different platform. The developer had also mentioned somewhere that iLock could not perform all the functions, DUE TO LIMITATIONS OF BB10, as is the case with True caller, which explicitly states this on its app page in BBW.

    I am just asking to address this issue.

    If they could reliably perform these functions in BBOS, why not BB10? That's my question.

    On my awesome Zed 10!
    07-01-14 10:45 AM
  25. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Agreed.

    But, in BBOS, an app named iLock Pro exists, which does exactly this. It password protects anything you want to, including all the things I mentioned. When I saw iLock in BBW on BB10, I was very happy! But then it was a stripped down version of it, which cannot lock most of the things! It existed on BBOS and worked very well and downloads crossing 500,000 consumers, now why do you think it becomes un-doable on BB10?

    I understand BB10 has been built on an entirely different platform. The developer had also mentioned somewhere that iLock could not perform all the functions, DUE TO LIMITATIONS OF BB10, as is the case with True caller, which explicitly states this on its app page in BBW.

    I am just asking to address this issue.

    If they could reliably perform these functions in BBOS, why not BB10? That's my question.

    On my awesome Zed 10!
    I suppose you could call it a limitation of BB10. Personally, as a developer, I wasn't happy that some other developer could create an application that would interfere with the operation of my application or data. I consider that a limitation in BBOS. I could go on at lengh but the TL;DR is that BBOS with all installed images was one large JavaME application running in a single JVM. RIM was very good at controlling what third party applications could do, but as they added features the permission matrix got too complicated. The only way they could fix that was to give it less fine granulation. Ultimately the only way to move forward was to replace the OS.

    The API True Caller will need to port to BB10 has been announced for 10.3. The API was not available in early versions of BBOS. One difference between BlackBerry and other smartphone provides is that they fully analyze the security implications of releasing an API before making it broadly available. This is the difference between real security that enables privacy and security theater that may make you feel good, but doesn't really provide anything at all.

    So I have to ask, if BB10 has so many "limitations" why are you using it? Is it perhaps that even with all these "limitations" BB10 is still a better mobile OS? Consider that BB10 doesn't provide the same facilities as other mobile OSs, not because BlackBerry forgot to implement them, but because BB10, like BBOS before it, is the result of a specific development methodology designed to provide a secure operating environment.
    SnoozerBold likes this.
    07-01-14 12:32 PM
34 12

Similar Threads

  1. Losing my killer feature. Security any longer key?
    By nickPZC9 in forum BlackBerry 10 OS
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 06-28-14, 09:52 AM
  2. Is BlackBerry 7OS device secure as we imagining ?
    By Sweet BlackBerry in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-28-14, 04:27 AM
  3. Search is not finding my contacts, but they are visible otherwise.
    By CrackBerry Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-27-14, 04:04 PM
  4. BlackBerry India's Sunil Lalvani speaks on security, Z3 launch, and QNX in India
    By CrackBerry News in forum CrackBerry.com News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-27-14, 03:22 AM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-26-14, 11:27 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD