09-28-16 04:08 PM
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  1. kkoo's Avatar
    I'd like to see a demonstration, showing me exactly what an Android handset with a BlackBerry logo on it does that EVERY other Android handset doesn't.

    You can't get away with claiming to have a hidden ingredient that no one else has. It's plain deception without a demonstration. Ideally the research and comparison with all other Androids would be carried out by an independent third party.
    Got three letters for you bud: P, K, and B.

    p.s. There are seven layers in our Internet model. BB's handsets allow them control of network security at various points of otherwise general weakness with their vertically integrated HW/SW handsets, even if using Android. BB's secret sauce in SW would entail FW-level security implementations, and in the OS realm, binary blob additions to the Android kernel.

    I agree with your thought regarding third-party analysis though - Packet-sniff contest between a BlackBerry Android-N and a Samsung Galaxy #.
    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by kkoo; 07-24-16 at 02:36 PM.
    07-24-16 02:19 PM
  2. keliew's Avatar
    Would BlackBerry be able to negotiate themselves out of Google's data mining policy on Android? Maybe by paying a premium..?

    Just as how Windows 10 Enterprise version allows admin to disable data mining features.

    That'd be interesting...could be a market changer in the mobile sphere.

    BlackBerry Passport via CB10
    07-24-16 02:27 PM
  3. tickerguy's Avatar
    The attack surface associated with Google and all of its "components" is enormous. That they have not been caught in a breach doesn't mean they haven't been hacked or penetrated. A large part of that attack surface is not theirs either; since they provide a framework for various tracking methods that most of the apps use (rather than developing their own) the risk is neither local to Google nor confined to it if they are penetrated. Further, Google was known to pass data around unencrypted, including across international borders, until quite recently -- and that's just what's known publicly. What they are or aren't doing now, unless you've been doing plenty of poking around in places you shouldn't (and are probably breaking the law by doing so if you do), is impossible to determine with certainty and since we know they have done it in the past without disclosing same you certainly can't trust their bare assertions today.

    In short encryption costs money, and lots of it when it is applied to high-performance infrastructure, especially if it's done right on an end-to-end basis including all instances of storage and transport.

    If you think that what's up in Google's architecture -- or in anything that builds on their framework -- is secure I have a bridge to sell you.

    With that said the Priv offers some capabilities that other Android devices do not. For example you do not have to use Google's framework for contacts, calendars and similar storage -- you can use Exchange, because the Hub has it built in and Google has no "attachment point" to it.

    Implemented correctly this means you have strong encryption "at rest" on your infrastructure (where the data is stored), you have strong (including PFS making "replay" attacks nearly impossible) encryption end-to-end during transport no matter where you are or what network you are on and you have strong encryption on the device for data "at rest" and "in use" as well.

    It is a pain in the butt to do this with other Android devices and doing so loses a lot of integration that is otherwise present -- but it is easy to do so with the Priv, and will be with future BlackBerry Android devices.

    Is that enough reason to buy a BlackBerry Android device? For those who don't give a twist about data security, of course not.

    But for those who do, you bet it is.
    anon(9742832), FF22, DonHB and 2 others like this.
    07-24-16 02:29 PM
  4. Ronindan's Avatar
    And some of us, don't like Google for the loss of privacy.

    As for FB, I do use it, I need it for business, however, I log in on a private browser, and close it out after each session so that it cannot track me easily. I get virtually no ads this way, combined with a customized HOSTS file.

    Here is an interesting bit of information regarding Google tracking and the NSA.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ts-for-hacking
    as long you have an fb account and is actively using their services, fb is tracking you.
    Last edited by Ronindan; 07-24-16 at 04:36 PM.
    anon(9742832) and Mecca EL like this.
    07-24-16 02:44 PM
  5. Ronindan's Avatar
    The attack surface associated with Google and all of its "components" is enormous. That they have not been caught in a breach doesn't mean they haven't been hacked or penetrated. A large part of that attack surface is not theirs either; since they provide a framework for various tracking methods that most of the apps use (rather than developing their own) the risk is neither local to Google nor confined to it if they are penetrated. Further, Google was known to pass data around unencrypted, including across international borders, until quite recently -- and that's just what's known publicly. What they are or aren't doing now, unless you've been doing plenty of poking around in places you shouldn't (and are probably breaking the law by doing so if you do), is impossible to determine with certainty and since we know they have done it in the past without disclosing same you certainly can't trust their bare assertions today.

    In short encryption costs money, and lots of it when it is applied to high-performance infrastructure, especially if it's done right on an end-to-end basis including all instances of storage and transport.

    If you think that what's up in Google's architecture -- or in anything that builds on their framework -- is secure I have a bridge to sell you.

    With that said the Priv offers some capabilities that other Android devices do not. For example you do not have to use Google's framework for contacts, calendars and similar storage -- you can use Exchange, because the Hub has it built in and Google has no "attachment point" to it.

    Implemented correctly this means you have strong encryption "at rest" on your infrastructure (where the data is stored), you have strong (including PFS making "replay" attacks nearly impossible) encryption end-to-end during transport no matter where you are or what network you are on and you have strong encryption on the device for data "at rest" and "in use" as well.

    It is a pain in the butt to do this with other Android devices and doing so loses a lot of integration that is otherwise present -- but it is easy to do so with the Priv, and will be with future BlackBerry Android devices.

    Is that enough reason to buy a BlackBerry Android device? For those who don't give a twist about data security, of course not.

    But for those who do, you bet it is.
    sources please. as you made a lot of claims.
    Mecca EL and Dunt Dunt Dunt like this.
    07-24-16 02:45 PM
  6. BB_PP's Avatar
    Whoa fella, no need to get nasty.
    You claimed you said it.
    I was assuming that you are not John Chen.
    So please provide a citation.
    Citation for what ? Jhon chen said that BlackBerry is securing Android ? Me said one year before or you are clown ?

    Posted via Priv
    07-24-16 02:49 PM
  7. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Android N hardened by BlackBerry that is.

    "Chen added that the gap will be closed through a combination of BlackBerry's super-secret project and the impending release of the next version of Google's software, Android 7.0 Nougat."
    Same thing I said year before and many laughed at me
    Regarding the laughter I'll take your word for that.

    JC said that BlackBerry securing Android !Don't prove yourself clown, many things happened without citations.
    The records exist so please provide a citation from last year where you say that Chen intended to harden Android.

    Citation for what ? Jhon chen said that BlackBerry is securing Android ? Me said one year before or you are clown ?
    I think you have me confused with some other Bozo.

    Upcoming Android N 'Android' will be as secure as 'BB10' :- said 'Chen'-220px-puddles_the_clown.jpg
    Last edited by DrBoomBotz; 07-24-16 at 04:04 PM.
    07-24-16 03:54 PM
  8. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    If have to jump to Android then why BlackBerry Android,

    Hub on Android is a waste whether anyone wants to accept it or not. It will never as fluid as it's in bb10 as it's not build with the core os.

    Dtek just tells you which application have access your information but it won't stop them accessing.

    Secure, hmm with Android N Google too are focusing on security.

    So why to buy high price android offered from BlackBerry ? 400$ for neon so when it launches here with the custom chargers the price would go up with 480/500$ or above. For that price there are many best Android option in market.


    Posted via CB10
    I think you've answered your own question. If the added features like Productivity Tab, Hub, etc aren't your cup of tea, there's no reason as a consumer you should look at any BlackBerry all touch devices. You're correct, there's always going to be a cheaper, better spec'd all touch alternative.
    07-24-16 05:04 PM
  9. Davis Rayler's Avatar
    Hybrid between Android N and BB10 will be the next BB10 Device...

    Posted via CB10
    deadcowboy likes this.
    07-24-16 05:46 PM
  10. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    You just answered your question:


    They spent money on design, planning, and production of these devices. They can't just let it go! That's equal to setting fire to the spent money. Why are you surprised after all? They already did it! Remember when they left OS7 for BB10, but started manufacturing and selling Bold Touch 9900 again?? Because they knew people would buy it, and selling something people buy, is called making money
    Have a look at this How the Sunk Cost Fallacy Makes You Act Stupid
    07-24-16 07:35 PM
  11. PHughes's Avatar
    as long you have an fb account and is actively using their services, fb is tracking you.
    Of course, but it can be minimized greatly, and all my personal information, schedule, and emails are not on it. I do not use the same browser or email address to use FB, and always log in on a private browser. So, what I do on FB is quite separate from my phone, which holds much more personal information. If I use Android, Google can track much more than FB can, because of the way I use it. As a result, I rarely get any odd on FB. They simply do not show up.

    Now, Android is very nice, I have an Android tablet, but I used it for only one limited purpose, for one app I needed for business, and do no browsing on it nor do I use email on it.

    Secure is one thing, privacy is another, and Android, when coupled with Googles services is not private. It does not discount the fact that it is a decent OS with a lot to offer for someone who is okay with being tracked by Google. You can minimize it, but you cannot turn it off. So far, I don't care to be tracked by Google, I may at some point use an Android phone, but for now I choose not to, because I value my privacy.
    07-24-16 08:57 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    So far, I don't care to be tracked by Google, I may at some point use an Android phone, but for now I choose not to, because I value my privacy.
    I value my privacy, but don't mind being "tracked by Google".

    There are people and institutions in my life to whom I provide personal information, but I deem it acceptable for what I get in return.

    A doctor that knows my personal history makes better diagnoses. A financial advisor gives better advice when he knows about all of my investments. Google Now provides better content when it monitors my behaviour.

    Doctors, banks, and Google make money from me, but I get something in return.

    It bothers me that some suggest I don't value my privacy when I " submit" to Google. I value my privacy very much, and have carefully weighed the value I obtain for providing my information to select people or organisations that I trust.
    07-24-16 10:04 PM
  13. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    I value my privacy, but don't mind being "tracked by Google".

    There are people and institutions in my life to whom I provide personal information, but I deem it acceptable for what I get in return.

    A doctor that knows my personal history makes better diagnoses. A financial advisor gives better advice when he knows about all of my investments. Google Now provides better content when it monitors my behaviour.

    Doctors, banks, and Google make money from me, but I get something in return.

    It bothers me that some suggest I don't value my privacy when I " submit" to Google. I value my privacy very much, and have carefully weighed the value I obtain for providing my information to select people or organisations that I trust.
    Not to mention that most people use Google on the desktop, and have no idea how much their browsing habits are tracked. It's funny that so many think this is a mobile issue.
    07-24-16 11:10 PM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I value my privacy, but don't mind being "tracked by Google".

    There are people and institutions in my life to whom I provide personal information, but I deem it acceptable for what I get in return.

    A doctor that knows my personal history makes better diagnoses. A financial advisor gives better advice when he knows about all of my investments. Google Now provides better content when it monitors my behaviour.

    Doctors, banks, and Google make money from me, but I get something in return.

    It bothers me that some suggest I don't value my privacy when I " submit" to Google. I value my privacy very much, and have carefully weighed the value I obtain for providing my information to select people or organisations that I trust.
    Same people worried about Google, don't seem to care about their ISP and Mobile providers tracking them too.
    Mecca EL and Troy Tiscareno like this.
    07-25-16 09:43 AM
  15. crackbb10's Avatar
    They learned from the BlackBerry 10 announcement during the 9900 run. If BlackBerry 10 had not been announced, the 9900 would have sold far more than it did. Same with the Priv. Say it's running Android and throw away your BlackBerry 10 stock. No, they will want to sell everything they have before a complete migration to Android happens.
    07-25-16 11:02 AM
  16. PHughes's Avatar
    I value my privacy, but don't mind being "tracked by Google".

    It bothers me that some suggest I don't value my privacy when I " submit" to Google. I value my privacy very much, and have carefully weighed the value I obtain for providing my information to select people or organisations that I trust.
    I'm not suggesting that at all. There is nothing wrong with making an informed decision to accept tracking in return for something you value. For me, I see no value in what Google offers, and feel that when I buy into their OS, I have paid for what they provide, so therefore I do not wish to be tracked. Unfortunately that is not how Google works, so I choose, at the moment, to not use them. There is nothing wrong with choosing to use them if you feel differently.

    Unfortunately, I will most likely have to switch to something other than BB10 at some point, and I hope I can find something acceptable. There are ways to minimize the Google intrusion, but not eliminate it of course.
    07-25-16 12:03 PM
  17. Mecca EL's Avatar
    The attack surface associated with Google and all of its "components" is enormous. That they have not been caught in a breach doesn't mean they haven't been hacked or penetrated. A large part of that attack surface is not theirs either; since they provide a framework for various tracking methods that most of the apps use (rather than developing their own) the risk is neither local to Google nor confined to it if they are penetrated. Further, Google was known to pass data around unencrypted, including across international borders, until quite recently -- and that's just what's known publicly. What they are or aren't doing now, unless you've been doing plenty of poking around in places you shouldn't (and are probably breaking the law by doing so if you do), is impossible to determine with certainty and since we know they have done it in the past without disclosing same you certainly can't trust their bare assertions today.

    In short encryption costs money, and lots of it when it is applied to high-performance infrastructure, especially if it's done right on an end-to-end basis including all instances of storage and transport.

    If you think that what's up in Google's architecture -- or in anything that builds on their framework -- is secure I have a bridge to sell you.

    With that said the Priv offers some capabilities that other Android devices do not. For example you do not have to use Google's framework for contacts, calendars and similar storage -- you can use Exchange, because the Hub has it built in and Google has no "attachment point" to it.

    Implemented correctly this means you have strong encryption "at rest" on your infrastructure (where the data is stored), you have strong (including PFS making "replay" attacks nearly impossible) encryption end-to-end during transport no matter where you are or what network you are on and you have strong encryption on the device for data "at rest" and "in use" as well.

    It is a pain in the butt to do this with other Android devices and doing so loses a lot of integration that is otherwise present -- but it is easy to do so with the Priv, and will be with future BlackBerry Android devices.

    Is that enough reason to buy a BlackBerry Android device? For those who don't give a twist about data security, of course not.

    But for those who do, you bet it is.
    sources please. as you made a lot of claims.
    Same. I'd be highly interested in what sources you've gathered this information from.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    07-25-16 12:53 PM
  18. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    There are people, like myself, that actually like the services Google provides in exchange for directed advertising
    Wow. Ads that are based on spying all your (private) life as an advantage? It seems like I'm getting old...

    Hybrid between Android N and BB10 will be the next BB10 Device...
    Oh no. Not that hybrid bullsh1t again...
    07-25-16 01:37 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    Wow. Ads that are based on spying all your (private) life as an advantage? It seems like I'm getting old...
    Not just ads. Have you used Google Now? It has tons of location and behaviour-based tools. I could not live without it anymore.

    "Spying" is a provocative word. Intentionally providing information in order to receive a large number of services in return, to a company that I trust with my data, is another way to describe it.

    Priv STV100-1 AAF518 / Q5SQR100-1/10.3.3.746
    Last edited by conite; 08-13-16 at 05:53 PM.
    07-25-16 01:43 PM
  20. deadcowboy's Avatar
    Not just ads. Have you used Google Now? It has tons of location and behaviour-based tools. I could not live without it anymore.
    Could not live without it? You should really try. That doesn't seem like a healthy relationship to have with technology.
    07-25-16 02:28 PM
  21. whatsever's Avatar
    Android N will get a secured and hardend Kernel, Patenting BlackBerry Hub integration, Apps Permission wil be extended and the homebutton will be gone, some saying it will get the gesture and swipe we will know from BlackBerry. Apple ios als get some kind of hub (extended notificatio) and also Apple will remove the home button .

    So in the future Android N will be closer to BB10 in UI ,where ios will try to follow and copy.
    07-25-16 03:18 PM
  22. keliew's Avatar
    Android N will get a secured and hardend Kernel, Patenting BlackBerry Hub integration, Apps Permission wil be extended and the homebutton will be gone, some saying it will get the gesture and swipe we will know from BlackBerry. Apple ios als get some kind of hub (extended notificatio) and also Apple will remove the home button .

    So in the future Android N will be closer to BB10 in UI ,where ios will try to follow and copy.
    Where does it leave BlackBerry? Nothing.

    BlackBerry Passport via CB10
    07-25-16 03:34 PM
  23. kkoo's Avatar
    Could not live without it? You should really try. That doesn't seem like a healthy relationship to have with technology.
    To each his own, friend. We had a family over with their little one year-old a few years ago. Lil' rascal was a whiz at the iPad... at one! That day I removed myself from any further judgment on people + technology. It's the future. It's here. If you don't like it, well ya better keep using your pure BB10 as long as you can (lol), cuz it only gets a lot more tech-ier from here!

    Posted via CB10
    07-25-16 04:09 PM
  24. whatsever's Avatar
    They will get money for every device with Android N till Z including pattents payment. Next to it they can protect devices with Android better and also build devce which are also hardware secured. They could also get patents to sell it to other brands like Samsung ,they could drop knox and also Google could build security devices with could be designed and made by BlackBerry (why not)

    So there is a big future for BlackBerry to license not only security but also in update's for that security to gain money. BlackBerry also get a better hand in other things like cars (QNX) and IOT (QNX) and that all better secured if a device working on Android. Trust me to say it will blown away Apple in every way and it will keep Google in the race and makes them bigger and stronger (monopoly) and BlackBerry will take some fruits also and get there own business in software booming.
    07-25-16 04:18 PM
  25. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The attack surface associated with Google and all of its "components" is enormous. That they have not been caught in a breach doesn't mean they haven't been hacked or penetrated. A large part of that attack surface is not theirs either; since they provide a framework for various tracking methods that most of the apps use (rather than developing their own) the risk is neither local to Google nor confined to it if they are penetrated. Further, Google was known to pass data around unencrypted, including across international borders, until quite recently -- and that's just what's known publicly. What they are or aren't doing now, unless you've been doing plenty of poking around in places you shouldn't (and are probably breaking the law by doing so if you do), is impossible to determine with certainty and since we know they have done it in the past without disclosing same you certainly can't trust their bare assertions today.

    In short encryption costs money, and lots of it when it is applied to high-performance infrastructure, especially if it's done right on an end-to-end basis including all instances of storage and transport.

    If you think that what's up in Google's architecture -- or in anything that builds on their framework -- is secure I have a bridge to sell you.
    https://cloudplatform.googleblog.com...-provides.html

    You are absolutely correct that, prior to summer of 2013, Google used to store data "at rest" without encryption - their transport encryption would be stripped off once inside their firewall. When it was learned that NSA had been accessing some of that data, Google was furious, and immediately went to work rolling out encryption to all data, both at rest and in transport, and hired some of the best minds in encryption in the world to make sure it was done right.

    As always, this is a "weapon vs. armor" battle - one side makes a better weapon that can penetrate existing armor, and the other side finds a way to improve their armor to defeat that weapon... rinse, repeat. Google realized that they need to stay well ahead of their competition, and so they also funded white-hat bug bounties and other ways to encourage researchers and encryption experts to assist them in ensuring they have a super-secure network. Given the value that data security has for Google (hint: the entire company is built on it), you can bet they take it VERY seriously.
    07-25-16 06:20 PM
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