02-12-18 07:31 AM
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  1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    There's undoubtedly a difference in structure, logic, and belief in all of the things you mention. I'm merely pointing out that despite what you may think, you've made certain assumptions in your use of these models that require you to hold an underlying 'belief' in their validity. Whether or not that validity actually exists is immaterial for the purposes of this discussion.

    Let me try putting this another way, do you believe your mathematics and scientific models to be false, incorrect or invalid?

    Of course you don't.

    You believe them to be true, correct, and valid. If you believed them to be false, you wouldn't employ their use.

    You employ their use in an attempt to gain knowledge.

    belief + justification = knowledge

    Therefore, anything derived from the use of the model is based on the aforementioned 'belief' that the model must be valid.

    You seem to be confusing belief with rationality which is something different entirely.
    I don't "believe" that 1+1=2, and I don't "believe" in the theory of relativity. I accept both as being internally consistent as parts of two different systems of knowledge.

    It's not an opinion to be believed or disbelieved that the theory of relativity is consistent with all observed phenomena or that 1+1=2 is consistent with the axioms of mathematics. Both are demonstrably true within their frames of reference. Belief is neither here nor there.

    Whether mathematics or science has any relationship to "truth" is outside the realm of either. They are internally consistent systems of knowledge. Whether a person posits a vague "belief" in them doesn't alter that consistency.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-08-18 02:16 PM
  2. JSmith422's Avatar
    I don't "believe" that 1+1=2, and I don't "believe" in the theory of relativity. I accept both as being internally consistent as parts of two different systems of knowledge.

    It's not an opinion to be believed or disbelieved that the theory of relativity is consistent with all observed phenomena or that 1+1=2 is consistent with the axioms of mathematics. Both are demonstrably true within their frames of reference. Belief is neither here nor there.

    Whether mathematics or science has any relationship to "truth" is outside the realm of either. They are internally consistent systems of knowledge. Whether a person posits a vague "belief" in them doesn't alter that consistency.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Semantics again. You're playing with words in an inconsistent way. First, you're using "accept" to replace belief in a way that actually means belief. If you "accept" something, then you've chosen to believe it. Knowledge cannot exist without belief. It's inherent. If you "know" something then you inherently believe it to be true, correct, valid (whatever word you want to use).
    02-09-18 01:24 AM
  3. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Semantics again. You're playing with words in an inconsistent way. First, you're using "accept" to replace belief in a way that actually means belief. If you "accept" something, then you've chosen to believe it. Knowledge cannot exist without belief. It's inherent. If you "know" something then you inherently believe it to be true, correct, valid (whatever word you want to use).
    I don't think we're getting anywhere at this point. I reject your conflating the meanings of knowledge, acceptance and belief. I can accept a number as being a correct calculation within a system of knowledge even if I don't believe it to be a valid system.

    For example, if someone says that a tiny pink elephant started the universe with a sneeze but immediately disappeared. I can accept that hypothesis as being internally consistent (I have no data to disprove it) but that doesn't mean I believe it.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-09-18 01:33 PM
  4. misty_g3ar's Avatar
    I'm using blackberry classic as main phone. Works like a charm.

    Posted via CB10
    02-09-18 02:25 PM
  5. LuxuryTouringZone's Avatar
    February 2018 and I'm still using a BlackBerry Q10.
    Qorax likes this.
    02-09-18 06:15 PM
  6. scubafan's Avatar
    Well, I think you're correct in saying that data mining has changed from a trickle too tiny to see into the Pacific Ocean it's become!

    I've actually never used my Q10 for email so it's a non-issue. Not out of a need for privacy or security, though. I just get from 40 to 100+ emails per day so it would drive me crazy with having to look every minute to make sure that I didn't miss a text!

    I don't see how the "secure cloud" makes any difference, as even if google can't access email stored in that cloud they still have total ability to read, modify, delete or forward the email or file using either SMS, FTP or simply over the Internet. They carefully remind users about it in all caps that they can not only DO whatever they want to, but to quote the TOS, "EVEN IF IT COSTS YOU MONEY". They make it clear that they scan every email or SMS with mostly algorithms but they reserve the ability to have one of their techs look too so they can learn more about you (in the name of making all the ads you see more relevant) to your interests.

    I'm not trying to make everyone think that the sky is falling at all. I just present the basic facts to two main groups. 1st are the ones like I saw quoting me earlier saying that all this data mining makes the world somehow better & anyway everyone's the same so I shouldn't care if they read about the most intensely personal areas of my life get bought, traded & sold (again, with them making $$ & me not getting so much as a pretend "thanks!" in return.

    There are SO many things that people would be horrified to be shared. In no particular order, there are thousands of medical or mental issues that people worldwide wouldn't want shared. Not just out of not wanting to be humiliated too. The insurance industry alone spends an enormous amount of money paying lobbyists to protect their total access to your life so they have excuses for raising rates constantly.

    Consumer Reports speaks often about how thousands of people with perfect driving records but poor credit reports are charged up to triple the amount that people with great to perfect credit scores are charged despite having multiple DUI arrests or in several events, committed vehicular homicide! Yet the poor person working three menial jobs just to put some food on the table is charged sums that are basically just extortion.

    Lexis-Nexis & other businesses wouldn't even exist without the demand by so many businesses for data. Data brokers are what google & every other company mean when the "privacy policy" says they combine the info you give them with "3rd parties & other sources".

    This fact is part of why I despise it when someone says that "I have a choice" of whether or not I own one type of spyware vs another. In the modern world it isn't feasible to go without a phone. In fact, my family CAN'T avoid cellphones since for unknown reasons our subdivision was never wired for service while the other side of our street WAS. So even if I hated my BlackBerry I'll have to use some mobile device if I ever wanted to make a single phone call. So our choice isn't a real one, just a sham...

    Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10
    Last edited by scubafan; 02-10-18 at 12:29 PM.
    02-10-18 11:39 AM
  7. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Majority of the so called BB die hard fans were nothing but regular fans who would jump to the next "big" thing the moment propaganda hit them. Let's not kid ourselves - BB10 is a tool for specific tasks and very few people perform those tasks. Look around - it's mindless drones making selfies or posting on (anti) social networks everywhere! It's the world today. They jump not because they cannot use the device anymore, they jump because they never needed it in the first place. My Passport does absolutely everything any other device can do plus all the things no other device can! Question answered...
    Just because someone moved on, it doesn't mean they are any less of a fan of BlackBerry. There are things that a BB10 device can't do in 2018 that an iphone/android can. Please don't say "any android app that I need can be used". That line just doesn't work for some people.

    Some people's work flow consists of more than what BB10 can offer. They aren't mindless drones, they just use another work flow that is different from yours.

    This is coming from a guy who uses a Classic/Passport in combination with an iPad/iphone for apps. I love BB10, but I don't blame anyone for leaving. That is 10000000000000% BlackBerry's own doing.

     Classically Posted SQC100-4/10.3.2.2876 
    Qorax and Troy Tiscareno like this.
    02-10-18 03:57 PM
  8. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Just because someone moved on, it doesn't mean they are any less of a fan of BlackBerry. There are things that a BB10 device can't do in 2018 that an iphone/android can. Please don't say "any android app that I need can be used". That line just doesn't work for some people.

    Some people's work flow consists of more than what BB10 can offer. They aren't mindless drones, they just use another work flow that is different from yours.

    This is coming from a guy who uses a Classic/Passport in combination with an iPad/iphone for apps. I love BB10, but I don't blame anyone for leaving. That is 10000000000000% BlackBerry's own doing.

     Classically Posted SQC100-4/10.3.2.2876 
    Not to mention almost every professional is using Android or Apple.
    02-11-18 08:33 AM
  9. Leyra B10's Avatar
    Not to mention almost every professional is using Android or Apple.
    I can think of a few things lol. No support for newer web technologies does suck though. Css grid would be nice.
    Wondered if anyone managed to install Lynx browser.

    Posted via CB10
    02-11-18 12:43 PM
  10. Newfangled's Avatar
    Just because someone moved on, it doesn't mean they are any less of a fan of BlackBerry. There are things that a BB10 device can't do in 2018 that an iphone/android can. Please don't say "any android app that I need can be used". That line just doesn't work for some people.

    Some people's work flow consists of more than what BB10 can offer. They aren't mindless drones, they just use another work flow that is different from yours.

    This is coming from a guy who uses a Classic/Passport in combination with an iPad/iphone for apps. I love BB10, but I don't blame anyone for leaving. That is 10000000000000% BlackBerry's own doing.

     Classically Posted SQC100-4/10.3.2.2876 
    Totally agree with this.

    I love BB10, but there came a point where it most definitely did not do everything I needed in a smartphone.

    If BB10 still does what you need, by all means keep using it! Nobody can stop you, and it's silly of them to try.

    I finally decided to try a KEYone and I'm so glad I did. I find it to be a brilliant combination of some of the best time-tested BlackBerry features I've come to depend on along with up-to-date smartphone technologies and apps I need.

    I am well aware of the tracking Google and third parties do via Android and Android apps. It is a concern of mine and I try to be vigilant about what I do and the info I share with my phone. I also use a VPN and apps like ProtonMail, Signal, and Telegram to encrypt sensitive communications.

    I will always miss BB10, but I'm glad I have a KEYone. I think it's a great device.
    Avenzuno likes this.
    02-12-18 07:22 AM
  11. emanuel0ss0's Avatar
    Totally agree with this.

    I love BB10, but there came a point where it most definitely did not do everything I needed in a smartphone.

    If BB10 still does what you need, by all means keep using it! Nobody can stop you, and it's silly of them to try.

    I finally decided to try a KEYone and I'm so glad I did. I find it to be a brilliant combination of some of the best time-tested BlackBerry features I've come to depend on along with up-to-date smartphone technologies and apps I need.

    I am well aware of the tracking Google and third parties do via Android and Android apps. It is a concern of mine and I try to be vigilant about what I do and the info I share with my phone. I also use a VPN and apps like ProtonMail, Signal, and Telegram to encrypt sensitive communications.

    I will always miss BB10, but I'm glad I have a KEYone. I think it's a great device.
    That's exactly my point. At some point the BB10 flow isn't going to work for most people. Standards and expectations change every day. I am happy as it stands right now and can use it for a little while longer. I will most likely use a Keyone when it comes time for me to update my phone. I can't stand to lose my beloved keyboard. It's the reason why I use a classic or Passport alongside any one of my idevices.

    I just don't like generalizations that people make about BB10 being the be all end all. It's true for some, not true for all.

     Classically Posted SQC100-4/10.3.2.2876 
    02-12-18 07:31 AM
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