01-17-18 12:00 PM
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  1. tjseaman's Avatar
    The founders are the ones who put BlackBerry in the position they are in. So they can't really say much about it.

    I forgot to hit reply with quote. So this makes sense it was in response to the post "the founders must be livid ".

    Posted via CB10 - Z10 /STL100-3/ 0S10.3.3. 2205
    12-18-17 12:23 PM
  2. leeiling's Avatar
    Again, I am so done with BlackBerry, with the end of BB10 and the end of security update for Priv, the latter for it is two years old. I am OK with the NOC support for two more years, but it is not an award or reward, it is something that BlackBerry should do. For Priv, I am not sure what view I should take when it comes to the claim that they are the leader of cyber security since a phone that they produced is no longer secure as it turns two years old. It is really ironic. BlackBerry is the leader of security, and for two years. I don't really mind the OS update, but the security update being stopped? That has gone too far, more than I can take.


    Posted via CB10
    CrackPriv likes this.
    12-18-17 12:47 PM
  3. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Again, I am so done with BlackBerry, with the end of BB10 and the end of security update for Priv, the latter for it is two years old. I am OK with the NOC support for two more years, but it is not an award or reward, it is something that BlackBerry should do. For Priv, I am not sure what view I should take when it comes to the claim that they are the leader of cyber security since a phone that they produced is no longer secure as it turns two years old. It is really ironic. BlackBerry is the leader of security, and for two years. I don't really mind the OS update, but the security update being stopped? That has gone too far, more than I can take.


    Posted via CB10
    Sometimes you have to face the fact... the company you "love" is just a mindless beast with no soul and is really only interest in it's next victim.
    app_Developer and arfeo like this.
    12-18-17 04:47 PM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I never saw anything else they did.

    (I purposely ignore YouTube videos, because you have to hunt for that, and in my opinion, not an effective advertising method to reach someone not looking for it).

    There was a series of Q10 commercials by Verizon that was not bad, but that's all I remember.

    I'm in South Louisiana, so I'm in the kind of market that BlackBerry probably should have made some attempt to gain a wider audience. Instead, I think they concentrated in the larger N.Y., L.A. type markets... where BlackBerry was apparently largely ignored.

    Hines also promised a big advertising blitz once the Z10 was finally going to be released by AT&T.

    AT&T released the Z10 and...
    ...
    ...
    Nothing...silence...crickets...

    Of course, I got one, but I was going to anyway. I wasn't the type of customer they needed to convince.
    Nobody would take a check from BlackBerry at that point since it would bounce. Plus, BlackBerry knew that advertising would just ultimately increase the number of returns? Why pay for shipping twice? Once to carrier and second to liquidator.....
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    12-18-17 04:55 PM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Sometimes you have to face the fact... the company you "love" is just a mindless beast with no soul and is really only interest in it's next victim.
    It's silly to attach emotions to any company. They are all in business to serve a market. If you like what they offer, great. If not, move on. Being emotional about products is the surest way to either overpay ( for one you "love") or miss an opportunity (if one you "hate" offers a good value.)

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-18-17 05:05 PM
  6. stlabrat's Avatar
    No. BB's quarterly reports don't go into that much detail.
    not totally true. R&D always a seperated item, BB didn't spend much compare to the others (% wise, such as apple, microsoft, nokia, motorola, etc. industry wide)... overhead was heavy at the time (R&D expanse can be claimed for tax credit in Canada... ) I think you should dig it out and check if my memory serve me right. (2011-2014).
    DonHB likes this.
    12-18-17 05:51 PM
  7. stlabrat's Avatar
    joeldf: you missed superbowl of 2013, did you? or you just didn't "connect" the BB ads that got any relationship with BB10?
    that 30 sec was a lot of marketing money - almost equal to few VPs exit package (not enough for TH package of course).
    12-18-17 06:03 PM
  8. joeldf's Avatar
    joeldf: you missed superbowl of 2013, did you? or you just didn't "connect" the BB ads that got any relationship with BB10?
    ...
    that 30 sec was a lot of marketing money - almost equal to few VPs exit package (not enough for TH package of course).
    I did see the Superbowl ad. What I meant was, other than the Verizon ads, I never saw anything else after that.

    I do remember that Frank Boulben got the boot before the end of that year.
    12-18-17 06:16 PM
  9. DonHB's Avatar
    Beyond the million reasons brought up countless times before in countless other threads as to why this is non-sensical, what could have been done in 2010 has no bearing on Chen.

    By the time he came on board, BB10 was already on its way out.
    Well, I believe the entire R&D to introduction of BB10 was poorly managed and the z10 inventory write-off is the most glaring example. Fear of repeating the OS/2 mistake of supporting Windows is mistaken when the SDK is open and BlackBerry would have the opportunity to take Android in their own direction consulting their developer customers along the way. Something, presumably, BlackBerry is unable to do now that they have licensed GPF from Google.

    Chen could have considered how minimally used GPF was when he came on board in 2013, what BB10 devices were in the pipeline and may have found developers at the time interested in a new gesture based platform for their Android Apps. If BlackBerry could make a Flow supporting Android Player binary compatible with existing apps (or require minimal forking of these Android apps) we may have a well supported Google free Android phone platform with fully functional Hub and excellent choices between VKB or PKB. Finally, without a GPF license BlackBerry could migrate their native API to Qt or some new API that they developed to provide cross platform support for the multitude of platforms they support as a result of their acquisitions.
    12-18-17 08:32 PM
  10. conite's Avatar

    Chen could have considered how minimally used GPF was when he came on board in 2013, what BB10 devices were in the pipeline and may have found developers at the time interested in a new gesture based platform for their Android Apps.
    What you keep missing is the fact that there is no "after" 2013 for a proprietary OS from Blackberry.

    The decision was made. Chen was hired to execute that decision. There was no turning back. They took their one and only Hail Mary, and it failed catastrophically leaving them a half step away from the total bankruptcy.
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    12-18-17 08:37 PM
  11. DonHB's Avatar
    What you keep missing is the fact that there is no "after" 2013 for a proprietary OS from Blackberry.

    The decision was made. Chen was hired to execute that decision. There was no turning back. They took their one and only Hail Mary, and it failed catastrophically leaving them a half step away from the total bankruptcy.
    I would say this would have been a course correction (belatedly taking Brenner's advice) while their SE Linux based Android OS was the Hail Mary.

    Even if this were true (link?) as CEO he has the ear of the board and he still had most of the BB10 personnel. The investment in the native tools would have stopped just the same (or perhaps within the 10.2.1 timeframe) and the Android tools would have been used instead.
    12-18-17 09:16 PM
  12. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I would say this would have been a course correction (belatedly taking Brenner's advice) while their SE Linux based Android OS was the Hail Mary.

    Even if this were true (link?) as CEO he has the ear of the board and he still had most of the BB10 personnel. The investment in the native tools would have stopped just the same (or perhaps within the 10.2.1 timeframe) and the Android tools would have been used instead.
    I think everyone is missing the obvious. The company was done when Chen arrived.

    NO MONEY except for what Fairfax put in with Chen executing the plan as has been done.
    12-18-17 09:42 PM
  13. SomeoneOrOther's Avatar
    The founders are the ones who put BlackBerry in the position they are in.
    Posted via CB10 - Z10 /STL100-3/ 0S10.3.3. 2205
    This.

    They ignored the consumer market, they ignored apps, they ignored keyboardless phones, they ignored the need for a modern mobile OS (BB10), they...got cocky and ignored the iPhone and the App Store

    then

    They created BB World too late, they released their first keyboard-less phone (Z10) too late, they released BB10 too late, they released the Playbook too late, they released BBM cross-platform too late.

    The ONE thing they did do correctly.....drive the company (almost completely) into the ground.
    anon(9803228) and DonHB like this.
    12-18-17 11:38 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    This.

    They ignored the consumer market, they ignored apps, they ignored keyboardless phones, they ignored the need for a modern mobile OS (BB10), they...got cocky and ignored the iPhone and the App Store

    then

    They created BB World too late, they released their first keyboard-less phone (Z10) too late, they released BB10 too late, they released the Playbook too late, they released BBM cross-platform too late.

    The ONE thing they did do correctly.....drive the company (almost completely) into the ground.
    The founders acted in self-interest. They built a business model BBOS that had no succession plan. Their only success was to keep people on BIS/BES as long as possible. From a mobile OS ecosystem standpoint, the founders knew BlackBerry was a one hit wonder....
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    12-19-17 07:31 AM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    The founders acted in self-interest. They built a business model BBOS that had no succession plan. Their only success was to keep people on BIS/BES as long as possible. From a mobile OS ecosystem standpoint, the founders knew BlackBerry was a one hit wonder....
    But then they didn't do the smart thing: stop investing and maximize profits as the company is slowly wound down. Not all companies need to live forever. Cashing out us a viable exit strategy.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-19-17 09:24 AM
  16. glwerry's Avatar
    I think I didn't elaborate what a true BlackBerry device should be besides containing an operating system that BlackBerry has/had developed on its own. RIM/ BlackBerry had created a device and an operating system at the same time if they don't make the hardware and then don't make the software what is BlackBerry? From my standpoint being pro- BlackBerry to continue they at least have to continue developing BBOS so that a hardware company can provide the physical keyboard device with a screen or whatever type of outer body they want to create. Having no hand in the hardware division is putting BlackBerry in a position that is hard to keep creating developing a operating system
    From reading this and some of your other quotes, it seems to me that you are missing a fundamental, important point.

    BB is NO LONGER A MOBILE PHONE COMPANY. They have transitioned themselves to be a SOFTWARE company.
    So, when you ask the question, "what is BlackBerry", the answer is that BlackBerry is a SOFTWARE company.
    Part of that is that they develop a hardened Android OS.
    That's only a small part of the software that they develop.
    They are NO LONGER in the hand-held operating system business - they do "add value" to Android, but they don't develop it.

    Does that make more sense?
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    12-19-17 09:33 AM
  17. joeldf's Avatar
    This.


    then

    They created BB World too late, they released their first keyboard-less phone (Z10) too late, they released BB10 too late, they released the Playbook too late, they released BBM cross-platform too late.
    To be fair, BlackBerry's first full touch phone was the Storm in 2008 - just a year after the release of the iPhone. Of course it was not well received, was only a CDMA model in the US (Verizon exclusive), and by the time the Storm 2 came out a year later fixing the complaints, it was too late to redeem the thing.

    Then, there's the first BlackBerry slider - the Torch 9800 in the summer of 2010. And, the non-slider, full touch 9850/9860 released in the summer of 2011. It would be two more years before the release of the Z10.

    BlackBerry App World (it's original name) was initially released in Spring 2009 under the BBOS. It could be considered a bit late. Prior to that, apps for BBOS were generally available directly from the developer. It was re-branded simply BlackBerry World with BB10.

    But, I agree, everything else you mentioned was released - including BB10 itself - way too late.
    12-19-17 10:18 AM
  18. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    But then they didn't do the smart thing: stop investing and maximize profits as the company is slowly wound down. Not all companies need to live forever. Cashing out us a viable exit strategy.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I think it was because they kept stock price high by spending collective shareholder money to maximize their personal asset liquidation. Almost like a reverse of legal frontrunning scheme of buying ahead of the long term growth, knowing the long term collapse of revenue would occur post-BIS.....
    12-19-17 10:29 AM
  19. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I think it was because they kept stock price high by spending collective shareholder money to maximize their personal asset liquidation. Almost like a reverse of legal frontrunning scheme of buying ahead of the long term growth, knowing the long term collapse of revenue would occur post-BIS.....
    But everyone would have made more money if they'd had the courage to simply harvest the business as a cash cow and pay out sharehokders.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-19-17 10:31 AM
  20. Emaderton3's Avatar
    From reading this and some of your other quotes, it seems to me that you are missing a fundamental, important point.

    BB is NO LONGER A MOBILE PHONE COMPANY. They have transitioned themselves to be a SOFTWARE company.
    So, when you ask the question, "what is BlackBerry", the answer is that BlackBerry is a SOFTWARE company.
    Part of that is that they develop a hardened Android OS.
    That's only a small part of the software that they develop.
    They are NO LONGER in the hand-held operating system business - they do "add value" to Android, but they don't develop it.

    Does that make more sense?
    I think everyone forgets that this hardened Android is such a small part of what they now do in software.
    app_Developer and goncal like this.
    12-19-17 10:43 AM
  21. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I think everyone forgets that this hardened Android is such a small part of what they now do in software.
    Exactly. The new Frontpage CB story about BBRadar is more significant from a potential and probable standpoint regarding profits AND revenues. (See what I did there Edmaderton3 ;-) )
    12-19-17 10:48 AM
  22. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Exactly. The new Frontpage CB story about BBRadar is more significant from a potential and probable standpoint regarding profits AND revenues. (See what I did there Edmaderton3 ;-) )
    Lol I did, I did.
    12-19-17 10:51 AM
  23. INFOmuzRON's Avatar
    From reading this and some of your other quotes, it seems to me that you are missing a fundamental, important point.

    BB is NO LONGER A MOBILE PHONE COMPANY. They have transitioned themselves to be a SOFTWARE company.
    So, when you ask the question, "what is BlackBerry", the answer is that BlackBerry is a SOFTWARE company.
    Part of that is that they develop a hardened Android OS.
    That's only a small part of the software that they develop.
    They are NO LONGER in the hand-held operating system business - they do "add value" to Android, but they don't develop it.

    Does that make more sense?
    OS =Operating System = Software

    does that make even more sense?
    12-19-17 12:47 PM
  24. glwerry's Avatar
    OS =Operating System = Software

    does that make even more sense?
    No kidding. I've only been working with software since 1978.

    I was working from the tone of your post and the tone that I was reading was that BlackBerry's identity was tied up in BB10.

    My point is that BB has MOVED ON from BB10 and that OS development is only a very small part of their business model now.
    BB10 and, for that matter, even the Android hardening, Hub, etc., is NOT their identity like it used to be.
    12-19-17 01:04 PM
  25. app_Developer's Avatar
    OS =Operating System = Software

    does that make even more sense?
    Maybe a better way to say it is that BB is now in the business of making software that other companies actually want to buy.
    12-19-17 01:11 PM
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