01-17-18 11:00 AM
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  1. Nguyen1's Avatar
    So... I get a discount for trading in my BBOS device to get a motion? I have a spare curve, what kind of discount are we talking? $5? Or $50? Or five cents?
    12-15-17 10:10 AM
  2. joeldf's Avatar
    So does this mean you won't be able to activate any new bb10 device?
    There are no new BB10 devices.
    12-15-17 10:11 AM
  3. IvanTheTolerable's Avatar
    There are no new BB10 devices.
    I mean if I buy a new bb10 device
    12-15-17 10:14 AM
  4. thurask's Avatar
    I mean if I buy a new bb10 device
    Why would you do that?
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    12-15-17 10:14 AM
  5. IvanTheTolerable's Avatar
    Why would you do that?
    Because I collect old bb10 devices like most of us.
    12-15-17 10:15 AM
  6. glwerry's Avatar
    So... I get a discount for trading in my BBOS device to get a motion? I have a spare curve, what kind of discount are we talking? $5? Or $50? Or five cents?
    That hasn't been specified yet.

    Patience, Grasshopper.
    12-15-17 10:19 AM
  7. IvanTheTolerable's Avatar
    Why would you do that?
    Same reason I still buy 40 year computers. https://i.imgur.com/Z7va3Glh.jpg
    12-15-17 10:22 AM
  8. IvanTheTolerable's Avatar
    12-15-17 10:28 AM
  9. Invictus0's Avatar
    But all they did: "No, we are fully committed to BlackBerry 10 and to those customers!"
    Enterprise customers, they were pretty clear about that at the time. When BB World shuts down that'll be four years of support after a successor was made available.

    https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/8/9...million-phones

    Wrong. Chen was brought in after the board had already decided to phase out BB10 in favor of Android. But they had several BB10 devices still in development at the time, as well as important enterprise contracts to fulfill, so Chen had to see those development cycles through. I believe that soon after the launch of the Z10, they saw the writing on the wall, but they couldn't just pull the plug on it or the company would have gone under.
    BB Android wasn't started until 2014 when Ron Louks joined the company, it was greenlit sometime after that when he convinced Chen it could be secured.

    https://www.cnet.com/news/inside-bla...-with-android/
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    12-15-17 10:30 AM
  10. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    So... I get a discount for trading in my BBOS device to get a motion? I have a spare curve, what kind of discount are we talking? $5? Or $50? Or five cents?
    Stay tuned ... but don't hold off buying now hoping that they will give you $50 for a 9-year old device that you pulled out of the junk drawer. I imagine that they may work out a sliding scale or some kind.
    12-15-17 11:01 AM
  11. DallinCrump's Avatar
    As a diehard fan of BBOS and BB10, I have to say that I am relieved.

    It was the uncertainty that was frustrating - maddening even. We had no way of knowing whether they would just continue to support the status quo indefinitely or pull the plug tomorrow. At least now we know that BIS and BlackBerry World will most likely be shut down on the last day of 2019. Yes, they left it open-ended with language like "at least", but we should assume that's a hard deadline unless we hear otherwise.

    BBOS devices will lose some significant functionality when BIS and BlackBerry World are shut down. But they are still usable and people have come up with some creative workarounds to deal with no BIS. Interestingly enough, it is possible to install native apps on BBOS devices without BlackBerry world, but it is not possible to do so in BB10 (that I am aware of).

    BB10 devices will not be impacted by the lack of BIS, since they never required it. But they will be impacted more by the loss of BlackBerry World, unless there is a way to acquire and install native BB10 apps outside of BB World. Assuming the Android 4.3 runtime still works - and assuming there are Android apps out there that still support that version of Android, you will still be able to install Android APKs. So that does allow for some useful life beyond the end of official support.

    I will NOT be making use of the forthcoming upgrade program. I have zero interest in a KEYone or Motion because, while they may indeed be the "most secure Android devices" available from a hardware standpoint, they are far from the most private from a software standpoint if they are running Android.

    Aside from the fact that Android is merely a glorified data-harvesting platform intended to feed Google's targeted advertising business, research has shown that many of the most popular Android apps have embedded third-party trackers from scores of companies that are also collecting all kinds of data about everything from your web browsing history to your exact location. Although to a lesser extent, perhaps, many iOS apps likely have trackers, as well.

    I believe this rampant data collection is a threat to personal privacy and security. If any one of these tracking companies is irresponsible with your data in any way, the consequences could be quite severe.

    There are many people (and many forum members here) that try to marginalize those of us who have such concerns - probably in an attempt to justify to themselves that risking their privacy is worth having their shiny new gadget that can do so many amazing things. Indeed, the allure and stranglehold of the likes of Netflix, Candy Crush, and Instagram on the human mind seem to override, for most people, any risk to their privacy or security - whether potential or actual.

    If you ask the average person whether they would keep using a smartphone if they knew for a fact that it was not protecting their privacy, I daresay most of them would say yes.

    I believe my privacy is too high a price to pay for convenience. But I still want at least a few of the conveniences that a smartphone affords. So where does that leave me?

    I do not implicitly trust ANY company or organization 100% to protect my privacy. But I trust some companies - or at least the technology they have created - more than others. For example, I trust Apple more than Google. Apple does collect data and allow data collection in iOS apps, but Apple's business model does not include targeted advertising - they are a hardware and software company that has succeeded at the high quality, high profit margin game.

    I do not fully trust BlackBerry, either, as Chen seems all too eager to hand over whatever data they can at the drop of a government's hat. The promise of privacy and security for their enterprise customers seems to be genuine, but for individuals like me, not so much.

    But here's where BBOS and BB10 still appeal to me - and also why I believe they ultimately failed: they were not as accommodating to data-mining as app developers and advertising companies wanted. Those OSes were not built from the first line of code with tracking and advertising in mind, as Android was. BBOS and BB10 were built using RIM/BlackBerry DNA - with true security and privacy in mind.

    Google and Apple opt you into data collection by default. You can opt out, but you have to take the initiative and put in the effort to figure out how to do that. But when you first set up a BB10 phone (and I can't remember, but I'm sure BBOS does this, too), you are presented the option right there to opt in or opt out of diagnostic data collection. And BB10 has always allowed meticulous control over app permissions, whereas Android only started doing so with Marshmallow 6.0.

    With so many privacy and security safeguards built in, BB10 was not appealing to the big name app developers because they make considerable profit in collecting and monetizing as much data as possible. Android - and to a lesser extent, iOS - are set up to easily facilitate that business model. BB10 is not.

    And so, with the promise of at least 2 years of continued BIS and BlackBerry World support, I am planning on ditching an iPhone as my daily driver in favor of either a Bold 9900 or a Q10. I plan on getting both, actually, so that I can continue using the Q10 beyond 2019 if there is no viable alternative for privacy-conscious smartphone users by then.

    Besides privacy and security, the reasons I've settled on the 9900 and Q10 are many. They both have user-replaceable batteries, which not only negate the need to be tethered to a wall or external battery, but allow for easy replacement when a battery fails, unlike phones with sealed batteries. They also have the iconic BlackBerry physical keyboard, which is still the most efficient and effortless typing interface for me. And they are also both extremely easy to disassemble to repair or replace parts.

    I look forward continuing to associate with and represent those of us who are still fans of BBOS and/or BB10 here on the CrackBerry Forums.
    rayporsche, falbo, rarsen and 9 others like this.
    12-15-17 11:09 AM
  12. joeldf's Avatar
    It does bring up the question of BlackBerry Protect and the BBID on existing devices. Does that just disappear? What does that do?

    Are they really shutting down the NOC for those services?

    Remember when there was an NOC issue way back in December of 2013 that basically broke the sensors of almost every BB10 device at the time? BlackBerry had to do something on the back-end to get them working again. BlackBerry never really explained why or how the device sensors were somehow tied back to BlackBerry, but is that interconnectivity still the case? Will the sensor just get cut off?

    Or can all of this stuff on the devices be un-tethered from the NOC to operate independently?

    Maybe they already are.

    Maybe with a few keystrokes on those servers.
    rayporsche and Drenis like this.
    12-15-17 11:10 AM
  13. DallinCrump's Avatar
    Enterprise customers, they were pretty clear about that at the time. When BB World shuts down that'll be four years of support after a successor was made available.

    https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/8/9...million-phones



    BB Android wasn't started until 2014 when Ron Louks joined the company, it was greenlit sometime after that when he convinced Chen it could be secured.

    https://www.cnet.com/news/inside-bla...-with-android/
    From the CNET story:

    Chen, a software industry veteran hired to help save the Canadian company in late 2013, had already been talking to Google about how BlackBerry could better work with Android, the world's most popular operating system.
    12-15-17 11:11 AM
  14. app_Developer's Avatar
    The discount is a really good gesture actually. Hopefully they will announce the details of that soon.
    12-15-17 11:34 AM
  15. markmall's Avatar
    Wrong. Chen was brought in after the board had already decided to phase out BB10 in favor of Android. But they had several BB10 devices still in development at the time, as well as important enterprise contracts to fulfill, so Chen had to see those development cycles through. I believe that soon after the launch of the Z10, they saw the writing on the wall, but they couldn't just pull the plug on it or the company would have gone under.
    This is sheer speculation that has been repeated over and over again on this site. I don't agree at all having followed the company as a shareholder in this period.
    stlabrat and DonHB like this.
    12-15-17 11:54 AM
  16. markmall's Avatar
    The discount is a really good gesture actually. Hopefully they will announce the details of that soon.
    Not so much. When you get coupons in the mail, it's not out of generosity.
    12-15-17 11:54 AM
  17. markmall's Avatar
    I hate Google too much to let them collect even more about my whereabouts, tastes and habits. When forced I will go either Apple or Sailfish or some other alternative and carry an old Android for a few essential apps like I do now.
    JohnKobeck likes this.
    12-15-17 12:04 PM
  18. Invictus0's Avatar
    From the CNET story:
    That's for BES/EMM support as the article later describes,

    While Chen wanted a stronger relationship with Google -- one of the services BlackBerry offers is managing email on mobile devices, including those powered by Android -- Louks pushed things forward by asking to build an Android smartphone in early 2014.

    Chen wasn't sold on the idea. And he wasn't alone. BlackBerry veterans are accustomed to using the company's own software to ensure the most secure devices, and Android lacked a reputation for security.
    It was launched a few months before the Priv,

    https://www.techmalak.com/what-does-...ain-name-imply
    12-15-17 12:13 PM
  19. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    ...
    I'll be interested to see just how significant their incentive offers will be to trade up to a BBMo device...
    I'm interested as well, but I'm not expecting it to be very significant at all. The resale value of a BB10 device is pretty small as is, I can't see how their trade-in offer will be more than this. This is no fault of BlackBerry, it's nice of them to give any sort of credit whatsoever, however, as with most trade-in offers, it's probably going to be a lot less than the amount you can find from someone still wanting a BB10 device.
    12-15-17 01:00 PM
  20. EFats's Avatar
    It probably means a hard end to BBOS7, but die-hards can still soldier on with BB10 as long as standards allow.

    Seems odd they left themselves a bit of a loose end with "at least" 2 years. Why not just call it 2 years and be done with it? I also find it odd to have put all that effort into NIAP certification or whatever it was but not go anywhere with it.

    Me, I'm "loyal" to BlackBerry only because the device + OS work better. Android BlackBerry means nothing to me. I just got back from a week with Android, on a fabulous Sony, and while hardware is great, OS is soooo annoying. How do people put up with all the ads that are pervasive in almost everything? Does K1 or Motion manage to put a stop to that? And that Play Store has so much garbage and useless cruft in there.

    BlackBerry are admitting they have millions of users still, even on BBOS. These people have had plenty of incentives to move to a droid but have not. I don't see how BlackBerry are going to push them off prior to the hard cutoff.
    These are millions of incredibly, unreasonably? loyal customers that any company would kill to have and BlackBerry can't figure out a way to monetize that? If you guess 2 million users (and that's really low ball) and you could get them to buy a new mid range phone at $400-500, that's getting close to a billion dollar revenue somebody is passing up. Even with 3-4 year upgrade cycles, that's still big money.

    I bet many of the remaining users live that small, portable form factor. BlackBerry is not providing that option, but other manufacturers are. If I go Android, there's a good bet it won't be BlackBerry.
    12-15-17 01:15 PM
  21. arfeo's Avatar
    I'm disappointed to hear what they mean under "support". When BB says "support", they mean "we will be hosting BB AppWorld" (what a f... great deal!!). When a normal customer hears "support", he imagines at least critical patches to OS, like a KRACK patch.

    Posted via CB10
    StephanieMaks and cyberdoggie like this.
    12-15-17 01:26 PM
  22. arfeo's Avatar
    Probably, this is what they deserve. The company which is so "eager" to support its "beloved" customers...

    Posted via CB10
    12-15-17 01:29 PM
  23. wingnut666's Avatar
    I'm disappointed to hear what they mean under "support". When BB says "support", they mean "we will be hosting BB AppWorld" (what a f... great deal!!). When a normal customer hears "support", he imagines at least critical patches to OS, like a KRACK patch.

    Posted via CB10
    i too, would insist that support means vulnerability patches.
    otherwise, they are supporting bbw, not bb10.

    Posted via CBX
    12-15-17 01:43 PM
  24. john_v's Avatar
    Obviously this topic evokes a lot of strong emotion, but keep it on topic and avoid the name calling.

    Personal Attacks or Insults to Members
    Constructive discussions, debates, and free speech are encouraged in the forums. However, it is not constructive to criticize or insult another member because their opinion differs from yours. Discuss the post, not the poster, and consider the tone of your posts before pressing the submit button. If you are irritated by a post, thread, question, or topic, you are in no way obligated to respond and are encouraged to move along to another thread.
    12-15-17 01:45 PM
  25. glwerry's Avatar
    As a diehard fan of BBOS and BB10, I have to say that I am relieved.

    It was the uncertainty that was frustrating - maddening even. We had no way of knowing whether they would just continue to support the status quo indefinitely or pull the plug tomorrow. At least now we know that BIS and BlackBerry World will most likely be shut down on the last day of 2019. Yes, they left it open-ended with language like "at least", but we should assume that's a hard deadline unless we hear otherwise.

    BBOS devices will lose some significant functionality when BIS and BlackBerry World are shut down. But they are still usable and people have come up with some creative workarounds to deal with no BIS. Interestingly enough, it is possible to install native apps on BBOS devices without BlackBerry world, but it is not possible to do so in BB10 (that I am aware of).

    BB10 devices will not be impacted by the lack of BIS, since they never required it. But they will be impacted more by the loss of BlackBerry World, unless there is a way to acquire and install native BB10 apps outside of BB World. Assuming the Android 4.3 runtime still works - and assuming there are Android apps out there that still support that version of Android, you will still be able to install Android APKs. So that does allow for some useful life beyond the end of official support.

    I will NOT be making use of the forthcoming upgrade program. I have zero interest in a KEYone or Motion because, while they may indeed be the "most secure Android devices" available from a hardware standpoint, they are far from the most private from a software standpoint if they are running Android.

    Aside from the fact that Android is merely a glorified data-harvesting platform intended to feed Google's targeted advertising business, research has shown that many of the most popular Android apps have embedded third-party trackers from scores of companies that are also collecting all kinds of data about everything from your web browsing history to your exact location. Although to a lesser extent, perhaps, many iOS apps likely have trackers, as well.

    I believe this rampant data collection is a threat to personal privacy and security. If any one of these tracking companies is irresponsible with your data in any way, the consequences could be quite severe.

    There are many people (and many forum members here) that try to marginalize those of us who have such concerns - probably in an attempt to justify to themselves that risking their privacy is worth having their shiny new gadget that can do so many amazing things. Indeed, the allure and stranglehold of the likes of Netflix, Candy Crush, and Instagram on the human mind seem to override, for most people, any risk to their privacy or security - whether potential or actual.

    If you ask the average person whether they would keep using a smartphone if they knew for a fact that it was not protecting their privacy, I daresay most of them would say yes.

    I believe my privacy is too high a price to pay for convenience. But I still want at least a few of the conveniences that a smartphone affords. So where does that leave me?

    I do not implicitly trust ANY company or organization 100% to protect my privacy. But I trust some companies - or at least the technology they have created - more than others. For example, I trust Apple more than Google. Apple does collect data and allow data collection in iOS apps, but Apple's business model does not include targeted advertising - they are a hardware and software company that has succeeded at the high quality, high profit margin game.

    I do not fully trust BlackBerry, either, as Chen seems all too eager to hand over whatever data they can at the drop of a government's hat. The promise of privacy and security for their enterprise customers seems to be genuine, but for individuals like me, not so much.

    But here's where BBOS and BB10 still appeal to me - and also why I believe they ultimately failed: they were not as accommodating to data-mining as app developers and advertising companies wanted. Those OSes were not built from the first line of code with tracking and advertising in mind, as Android was. BBOS and BB10 were built using RIM/BlackBerry DNA - with true security and privacy in mind.

    Google and Apple opt you into data collection by default. You can opt out, but you have to take the initiative and put in the effort to figure out how to do that. But when you first set up a BB10 phone (and I can't remember, but I'm sure BBOS does this, too), you are presented the option right there to opt in or opt out of diagnostic data collection. And BB10 has always allowed meticulous control over app permissions, whereas Android only started doing so with Marshmallow 6.0.

    With so many privacy and security safeguards built in, BB10 was not appealing to the big name app developers because they make considerable profit in collecting and monetizing as much data as possible. Android - and to a lesser extent, iOS - are set up to easily facilitate that business model. BB10 is not.

    And so, with the promise of at least 2 years of continued BIS and BlackBerry World support, I am planning on ditching an iPhone as my daily driver in favor of either a Bold 9900 or a Q10. I plan on getting both, actually, so that I can continue using the Q10 beyond 2019 if there is no viable alternative for privacy-conscious smartphone users by then.

    Besides privacy and security, the reasons I've settled on the 9900 and Q10 are many. They both have user-replaceable batteries, which not only negate the need to be tethered to a wall or external battery, but allow for easy replacement when a battery fails, unlike phones with sealed batteries. They also have the iconic BlackBerry physical keyboard, which is still the most efficient and effortless typing interface for me. And they are also both extremely easy to disassemble to repair or replace parts.

    I look forward continuing to associate with and represent those of us who are still fans of BBOS and/or BB10 here on the CrackBerry Forums.
    You raise good points. However, you may have missed one thing.
    If you are using an Android app under BB10 (via the emulator), then how do know that THAT APP isn't sending data back to the owner about you?

    Other than that, your points are fundamentally sound.
    DallinCrump likes this.
    12-15-17 01:45 PM
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