01-17-18 11:00 AM
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  1. DonHB's Avatar
    We've gone over this.

    Even if a few are still around, they are actually busy on projects that have a ROI.
    ...I have minimal expectations for the first autoloader. So, much so that I don't expect the K1 is a candidate due to the dimensions of its screen.

    I believe Snapdragon 64-bit chips support 32-bit code. It should not be necessary to convert it to 64-bit.

    As far as software - just update the browser. They released 10.3.3 with the Android Player seems they can keep the aging version in there. Get BB10.3.4 autoloader out there quickly.

    I assume, with the attendant risks, that Snapdragon preserves a good level of compatibility between generations (and models of their SoC). Qualcomm products have the highest level of integration of such products on the market which means that they do not have an explosion of peripheral choices and respective drivers as when other SoCes are used.

    So, Snapdragon have evolved and are not completely new from generation to generation in terms of driver requirements and platform compatibility. Assuming this is true they could target the Motion first and only consider real changes to the OS with their knowledge of BlackBerry Mobile's next device.

    Also, Qualcomm is partnering with QNX on radios for cars. They didn't mentions specific parts, but it is promising in terms of reducing driver costs and keeping network support up-to-date.

    I don't have BlackBerry's actual numbers in terms of their development costs nor actual numbers of BBOS and BB10 customers. I will leave the speculation of a business case to others.

    As a side note it is interesting that BlackBerry talks security, but not much about privacy anymore.
    ?
    01-15-18 08:32 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    ?
    Yes, you want a team of a few hundred BB10 trained and ready developers for a year.

    Along with managers, infrastructure, and trainers for the future product support teams, should put you around $100 million + ongoing support.

    Bare minimum.
    01-15-18 08:35 PM
  3. StephanieMaks's Avatar
    I keep coming back to this thread hoping to see they've actually announced the trade-in program.

    Instead it keeps alternating between shadenfreude, and just feeling sad and awkward.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    01-16-18 07:29 AM
  4. DonHB's Avatar
    Yes, you want a team of a few hundred BB10 trained and ready developers for a year.

    Along with managers, infrastructure, and trainers for the future product support teams, should put you around $100 million + ongoing support.

    Bare minimum.
    How do you get at that number and no other comments regarding the above? Also, consider that QNX has a Board Support Package (BSP) for the Snapdragon 820A and QNX has support for most popular wireless technologies. No one refers to redundant work. Also, the lack of investment in inventory should have a positive impact on reducing costs. You never indicated how much of the losses were due to inventory costs.
    Last edited by DonHB; 01-16-18 at 10:02 AM.
    01-16-18 09:29 AM
  5. conite's Avatar
    How do you get at that number and no other comments regarding the above?
    Common sense.

    No other comments? I even broke it down for you. I haven't included for any hardware, inventory, or marketing.
    Last edited by conite; 01-16-18 at 10:58 AM.
    01-16-18 09:32 AM
  6. kvndoom's Avatar
    Common sense.

    No other comments? I even broke it down for you.
    I thought programmers worked for minimum wage.
    01-16-18 10:34 AM
  7. DonHB's Avatar
    Common sense.

    No other comments? I even broke it down for you. I haven't included for any hardware, inventory, or marketing.
    Can you comment on my previous post that I quoted. Primarily about how QNX is already supporting Qualcomm's 820A in Neutrino, how compatible different generations and models of Snapdragon are with one another (e.g. S4, 625, 820A, 820 and 845) and how this would reduce work to create an autoloader to support either current and future hardware made by licensees.
    Last edited by DonHB; 01-16-18 at 11:39 AM.
    01-16-18 11:29 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    Can you comment on my previous post that I quoted. Primarily about how QNX is already supporting Qualcomm's 820A in Neutrino, how compatible different generations and models of Snapdragon are with one another (e.g. S4, 625, 820A, 820 and 845) and how this would reduce work to create an autoloader to support either current and future hardware made by licensees.
    That's only one very tiny piece of the overall puzzle.
    01-16-18 11:32 AM
  9. DonHB's Avatar
    That's only one very tiny piece of the overall puzzle.
    In terms of support for individuals I would expect updates and not much hand holding directly from BlackBerry. I would expect that loading this OS would not violate the device warranty and customers could reload Android and get service. Should businesses be interested it could be part of a support package with other offerings from BlackBerry and the licensee (device service not OS support).
    01-16-18 11:40 AM
  10. DonHB's Avatar
    That's only one very tiny piece of the overall puzzle.
    With the caveat that it wold be at least as reliable as 10.3.2.x
    01-16-18 11:40 AM
  11. conite's Avatar
    In terms of support for individuals I would expect updates and not much hand holding directly from BlackBerry. I would expect that loading this OS would not violate the device warranty and customers could reload Android and get service. Should businesses be interested it could be part of a support package with other offerings from BlackBerry and the licensee (device service not OS support).

    With the caveat that it wold be at least as reliable as 10.3.2.x
    There are legal obligations to provide support - globally.

    There is no way around this. It's at least $100 million startup + yearly development, management, infrastructure and support costs once delivered.

    If you think it's any less, you are sorely mistaken.
    01-16-18 11:45 AM
  12. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Can you comment on my previous post that I quoted. Primarily about how QNX is already supporting Qualcomm's 820A in Neutrino, how compatible different generations and models of Snapdragon are with one another (e.g. S4, 625, 820A, 820 and 845) and how this would reduce work to create an autoloader to support either current and future hardware made by licensees.
    I don't think question is whether something COULD possibly function, but why? Since the company isn't obligated to do what you're suggesting, and they don't want to spend the money, they just don't. Call it greed or fiduciary obligations to shareholders. It doesn't matter. People here give you multiple answers to explain the logical realistic solutions and reasons.

    In the end, you just want to ask, why? The only answer is, because.

    It's their company and they don't have to give you any other answer than what's been provided. Could they do something? Maybe. BB just doesn't care about the strategy you suggest. Unless you take over the company through purchase, the current shareholders aren't interested with your ideas. They're happy with current strategy for now.
    pdr733 likes this.
    01-16-18 11:47 AM
  13. DonHB's Avatar
    If you think it's any less, you are sorely mistaken.
    And I am still waiting for how you get those numbers. Responding it is "common sense" isn't informative.
    01-16-18 11:59 AM
  14. DonHB's Avatar
    I don't think question is whether something COULD possibly function, but why? Since the company isn't obligated to do what you're suggesting, and they don't want to spend the money, they just don't. Call it greed or fiduciary obligations to shareholders. It doesn't matter. People here give you multiple answers to explain the logical realistic solutions and reasons.

    In the end, you just want to ask, why? The only answer is, because.

    It's their company and they don't have to give you any other answer than what's been provided. Could they do something? Maybe. BB just doesn't care about the strategy you suggest. Unless you take over the company through purchase, the current shareholders aren't interested with your ideas. They're happy with current strategy for now.
    Maybe they can be convinced otherwise when investing in inventory should no longer be necessary and changes the bottom line numbers.
    01-16-18 12:02 PM
  15. conite's Avatar
    Maybe they can be convinced otherwise when investing in inventory should no longer be necessary and changes the bottom line numbers.
    Convinced by whom? No one cares!

    There is no one left in BB10 development to even ask - that's assuming you can come up with a business plan that shows a SUBSTANTIAL, long-term ROI (which you can't).
    01-16-18 12:07 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    And I am still waiting for how you get those numbers. Responding it is "common sense" isn't informative.
    I broke it down for you. Just do the math.

    Start with 300 developers at $200k carrying charge. And that's cheap!!
    01-16-18 12:08 PM
  17. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Maybe they can be convinced otherwise when investing in inventory should no longer be necessary and changes the bottom line numbers.
    The only realistic thing you can do is wait and hope. Eventually, you’ll figure out it really, truly is over.

    Alternatively, you can put together a business plan with actual, real numbers on how to make this a profitable venture, and present it to someone at Blackberry who will listen and take you seriously. But since you don’t seem to have a firm grasp on business, infrastructure or software development, this seems like a tiny little bit of a stretch.
    01-16-18 12:09 PM
  18. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Maybe they can be convinced otherwise when investing in inventory should no longer be necessary and changes the bottom line numbers.
    When success is present, shareholders will stay the course and trust manager to continue the strategy. Human nature is comfortable and change is uncomfortable. Just let it go unless you become a large enough shareholder to matter to management. That's who they listen to, since that's who owns the company.
    01-16-18 12:11 PM
  19. markmall's Avatar
    There are legal obligations to provide support - globally.

    There is no way around this. It's at least $100 million startup + yearly development, management, infrastructure and support costs once delivered.

    If you think it's any less, you are sorely mistaken.
    Legal obligations to provide support globally? Like what? I thought there were no legal obligations to provide support. Globally? Are these United Nations requirements?

    At the same time BlackBerry has no legal obligations to make the browser work for devices it's currently selling? (An old conversation.)

    Posted via CB10
    01-16-18 01:19 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    Legal obligations to provide support globally? Like what? I thought there were no legal obligations to provide support. Globally? Are these United Nations requirements?

    At the same time BlackBerry has no legal obligations to make the browser work for devices it's currently selling? (An old conversation.)

    Posted via CB10
    Almost every jurisdiction around the world requires at least some level of after-sale service and support. Software updates (of which no one is entitled) do not fit into that category - which was the topic of previous discussions on the matter.
    01-16-18 01:33 PM
  21. BBEIGHT's Avatar
    I keep coming back to this thread hoping to see they've actually announced the trade-in program.

    Instead it keeps alternating between shadenfreude, and just feeling sad and awkward.
    Indeed. Just make with the trade-in program Blackberry! Or are you waiting until Android Whatsapp stops working :x

    Posted via CB10
    01-16-18 01:41 PM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I think that we should all use a stock response that encourages people who have plans to save/resurrect BB10 to send a request to BlackBerry for their idea and wish them luck.

    Here's a draft to alter as you see fit:

    "Hey, that sounds like a great idea! You really should write it up and mail it to the BlackBerry Chairman and CEO, copying the members of the Board or Directors. If it meets their investment criteria, I don't see why they wouldn't do it."

    ....and just leave it at that.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    01-16-18 01:46 PM
  23. joeldf's Avatar
    I'll do it...

    ....

    I have minimal expectations for the first autoloader. So, much so that I don't expect the K1 is a candidate due to the dimensions of its screen.

    I believe Snapdragon 64-bit chips support 32-bit code. It should not be necessary to convert it to 64-bit.

    As far as software - just update the browser. They released 10.3.3 with the Android Player seems they can keep the aging version in there. Get BB10.3.4 autoloader out there quickly.

    I assume, with the attendant risks, that Snapdragon preserves a good level of compatibility between generations (and models of their SoC). Qualcomm products have the highest level of integration of such products on the market which means that they do not have an explosion of peripheral choices and respective drivers as when other SoCes are used.

    So, Snapdragon have evolved and are not completely new from generation to generation in terms of driver requirements and platform compatibility. Assuming this is true they could target the Motion first and only consider real changes to the OS with their knowledge of BlackBerry Mobile's next device.

    Also, Qualcomm is partnering with QNX on radios for cars. They didn't mentions specific parts, but it is promising in terms of reducing driver costs and keeping network support up-to-date.

    I don't have BlackBerry's actual numbers in terms of their development costs nor actual numbers of BBOS and BB10 customers. I will leave the speculation of a business case to others.
    ...
    "Hey, that sounds like a great idea! You really should write it up and mail it to the BlackBerry Chairman and CEO, copying the members of the Board or Directors. If it meets their investment criteria, I don't see why they wouldn't do it."

    We can discuss this 'til the cows come home, but it won't make a lick of difference. BlackBerry is going to do what they are going to do.

    Unicorns and rainbows don't matter.
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    01-16-18 01:58 PM
  24. howarmat's Avatar
    I thought programmers worked for minimum wage.
    they get paid in redbull cause you know they wont ever be able to sleep.
    pdr733 likes this.
    01-16-18 04:16 PM
  25. DonHB's Avatar
    I broke it down for you. Just do the math.

    Start with 300 developers at $200k carrying charge. And that's cheap!!
    About those three hundred developers. How did you get that number?
    01-16-18 05:35 PM
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