01-17-18 11:00 AM
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  1. conite's Avatar
    So, they had about three months to plan a program.
    They had three months to sack most of the devices team, and sell its infrastructure just to stay solvent.

    What part of "no more investment in devices", and "scorched earth" do you not understand?
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    01-03-18 08:37 PM
  2. Soulstream's Avatar
    What if from the beginning they expected it would take a long time to grow the market and managed inventory and marketing accordingly? No one here separates the cost of R&D (software and hardware) and operations (BBW, etc.) from the production of inventory. Would you say inventory cost more than R&D and operations over the lifetime of BB10?
    The problem is that costs of R&D of a brand new OS is independent of inventory and marketing costs. And developers that are good enough to work on this are not cheap at all. And then supporting and further developing the OS is a continued cost for BB, one that BB couldn't probably afford.

    Other manufacturers can get away with having a small inventory and competitive prices (let's take OnePlus for example) because most developer costs are handled by Google on their base Android OS. Plus any holes in apps packages is filled instantly by Google Play. Most Android OEMs don't have to deal with making a browser when Chrome is there, free and it's actually pretty good. Same with a multitude of different apps such as email client, photo/document viewer, file-manager, music player etc.

    BBs multitude of apps bundled with the OS was NOT done out of the goodness of their hearth, but out of necessity due to the lack of a robust ecosystem to fill in any holes.
    anon(9803228) and elfabio80 like this.
    01-04-18 07:02 AM
  3. CrackPriv's Avatar
    Any news about the trade-up program ?
    01-04-18 02:22 PM
  4. ppeters914's Avatar
    Any news about the trade-up program ?
    You don't think a trade-in/up program will be announced nanoseconds once it exists?

    Posted via CB10 / AT&T /Z10 STL100-3 /10.3.3.3057
    01-04-18 03:07 PM
  5. falbo's Avatar
    It might be announced along with the next new phone to be released
    01-04-18 04:11 PM
  6. eshropshire's Avatar
    CEO Chen's experience began in hardware. He has a BS and MS in Electrical Engineering and prior to Sybase he worked for companies whose business was primarily hardware. However, I don't think any of these had consumer products. Important distinction, when business people were looking to carry a single device and BYOD was becoming prevalent.

    Why does working on Android indicate a complete transition to becoming a software company while continuing work on BB10 would mean it did not complete that transition? An OS is software. With the partnership with Qualcomm to support their modems in QNX software makes you wonder how much extra it would cost to get BB10 working on the Motion.
    By that logic I should apply for jobs as CIOs since my degrees are in Managing information systems. Or maybe engineering tech jobs since that is where I started in the tech world 29 years ago. No big deal that I have spent the last 25 years in the business side of enterprise software. My wife she should move to HW since she graduated in Electrical Engineering 28 years ago, but has spent 28 years in the software industry.

    All of Chen's management experience for over 20 years has been in Enterprise Software. If the BlackBerry Board wanted to focus on hardware they would have hired an expert in devices - they did not. Chen was also very clear when he took over about his goals - to transform BlackBerry into an Enterprise Software company, he stated if hardware could become profitable phones would continue.

    The whole premise of the augment in these threads about debt holders vs the board is crazy. If any of floated theories were valid - lawsuits and legal charges should be field. A few here are charging the top people involved in BlackBerry with fraud and violating their fiduciary responsibilities. In the last 5 years there has never been in public dispute between the Board about the direction of BlackBerry Limited. No shareholder proxy battles to fight against board. If anything financial analysts pushed on BlackBerry to dump their HW long before they finally made the decision.

    BTW - Android was not part of the transition to an enterprise software company - it was a last effort to stay in the phone business. The continuation of providing an Android Build - devoid of the HW is very low cost (no HW contracts, no HW engineers, no Qualcomm contracts, no marketing, no sales, no distribution, no re-seller management, no developer management, no SDK development. Just a few software engineers. What BlackBerry limited is doing is very low cost and will continue until licenses no longer cover the cost.

    Have fun with the thread - I don't see the point. BlackBerry's BOD made a decision in late 2013 to transition to an enterprise software company. BlackBerry limited abandoned their HW in 2016. They are now an enterprise software company. Debate what-ifs all you want. Personally what think the job John Chen has done is remarkable. I have been in the business side of the tech world for 29+ years. I rank John Chen's performance in the top 5 turnarounds in the last 30 years.
    01-04-18 06:36 PM
  7. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    By that logic I should apply for jobs as CIOs since my degrees are in Managing information systems. Or maybe engineering tech jobs since that is where I started in the tech world 29 years ago. No big deal that I have spent the last 25 years in the business side of enterprise software. My wife she should move to HW since she graduated in Electrical Engineering 28 years ago, but has spent 28 years in the software industry.

    All of Chen's management experience for over 20 years has been in Enterprise Software. If the BlackBerry Board wanted to focus on hardware they would have hired an expert in devices - they did not. Chen was also very clear when he took over about his goals - to transform BlackBerry into an Enterprise Software company, he stated if hardware could become profitable phones would continue.

    The whole premise of the augment in these threads about debt holders vs the board is crazy. If any of floated theories were valid - lawsuits and legal charges should be field. A few here are charging the top people involved in BlackBerry with fraud and violating their fiduciary responsibilities. In the last 5 years there has never been in public dispute between the Board about the direction of BlackBerry Limited. No shareholder proxy battles to fight against board. If anything financial analysts pushed on BlackBerry to dump their HW long before they finally made the decision.

    BTW - Android was not part of the transition to an enterprise software company - it was a last effort to stay in the phone business. The continuation of providing an Android Build - devoid of the HW is very low cost (no HW contracts, no HW engineers, no Qualcomm contracts, no marketing, no sales, no distribution, no re-seller management, no developer management, no SDK development. Just a few software engineers. What BlackBerry limited is doing is very low cost and will continue until licenses no longer cover the cost.

    Have fun with the thread - I don't see the point. BlackBerry's BOD made a decision in late 2013 to transition to an enterprise software company. BlackBerry limited abandoned their HW in 2016. They are now an enterprise software company. Debate what-ifs all you want. Personally what think the job John Chen has done is remarkable. I have been in the business side of the tech world for 29+ years. I rank John Chen's performance in the top 5 turnarounds in the last 30 years.
    John Chen is an old fashioned quiet, humble, clear-thinkibg, results-oriented CEO. He's not interested in celebrity or power. He quietly came in, made a bunch of difficult decisions based on business reality, and saved a company from ruin at a time when no one thought it was possible, including the original founders and many shareholders.

    It makes sense that end users who liked their handsets would be upset that BlackBerry exited the only business with which they were familiar. And if you're unhappy with a company, it's fine to blame the CEO. But that is a customer and not a business perspective.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    howarmat, glwerry and elfabio80 like this.
    01-05-18 09:50 AM
  8. markmall's Avatar
    To support development, sales and services of just 1,000 people would cost BlackBerry at least $200 million per year. 1 million devices with $100/device profit would generate $100 million/profit. The problem is you can't build and support OS ecosystem with just 1,000 people and $200 million if your competitors are spending 10x that and locking you out from the carriers. That's already losing you $100 million per year.

    BlackBerry was too small to compete and didn't have a reason for people to move os. Microsoft has the resources and could have purchased BlackBerry with Bill Gates spare change in the cushions of his couch. They passed because the only thing worse than wasting cash on a third OS would be wasting on a fourth OS.

    Problem I see here is that I don't think you see how small BlackBerry was compared to Apple, Google and Microsoft. You wish Chen had gambled more but he couldn't because you have to at least have the minimum buy-in to play at poker table. Chen had $1, when the buy in was $100 and the other guys had that in cash with another $200 each in credit. The only play was to leave the casino, buy water for a $1/bottle, sell it for $2/bottle in the parking lot and keep repeating until he's bought out the other parking lot hustlers while evading the casino police.

    Every Chen strategy has been a huge gamble since their economic position has been perilous from start. The company doesn't enjoy a margin of error still because of their existing overhead. Even now, the share price is based on where gamblers think Chen will take company in future, not current profits.

    I don't understand your $200 million figure or what it represents. Software engineering?

    BlackBerry has neglected BB10 for what? Three years? And it's still the best OS for business people and professionals apart from app issues. I still rely on it for everything but getting dates and occasional Lyft rides.


    Posted via CB10
    01-05-18 01:27 PM
  9. markmall's Avatar
    Of course management of the products introduction--inventory in particular, not delivering version 10.2.1 as 10.0.1, allowing the influx of sub par Android apps to BlackBerry World and not providing a means for Android apps to have the Flow UX had nothing to do with it?

    You seem to emphasize defects in the product rather than management's belief that it would have an immediate positive impact in the market and spent money accordingly. What did they do with the written off inventory? Could have considered using them to add to the pool of developers with free or low cost devices.
    The errors in execution were so numerous and substantial from Heins through Chen that it's impossible to blame any one thing -- like no Netflix app.

    I remember being accosted by a BlackBerry paid girlie at the Verizon store around the Z10 launch. This was because the carriers were sabotaging BlackBerry to sell iPhones apparently. She was so unprofessional. She wanted a photo with me to email to her boss to prove she was working. And she couldn't tell me anything useful about BB10.

    Compare Apple's marketing decisions to BlackBerry's. Apple was not a giant power when it started selling devices. Notice how Apple prepped the public for its gesture OS. BlackBerry had its vague marketing campaign.

    Posted via CB10
    01-05-18 01:38 PM
  10. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    And it's still the best OS for business people and professionals apart from app issues.
    [citation needed]
    01-05-18 02:41 PM
  11. Emaderton3's Avatar
    [citation needed]
    Look around. No one is getting work done on other phones. ~
    01-05-18 04:29 PM
  12. sorinv's Avatar
    Look around. No one is getting work done on other phones. ~
    Indeed, in my engineering business, only I do work on my Passport (presentations, file managing, editing and reviewing text and papers, correcting theses and papers). Everyone around me with iphones and android phones use theirs for phone calls, some very short emails (with typos), and entertainment, rarely for real creative work.

    Posted via CB10
    01-05-18 11:57 PM
  13. BlackBerryPassport's Avatar
    People who have shifted from BB10 to BlackBerry Android will always say that It was a good decision for BlackBerry to survive whereas the hardcore BB10 users who still using their BB10 devices won't agree on to it. No matter how much we argue this discussion won't end and neither of them can convince each other.

    Has Chen succeed in turning around BlackBerry and making it survive?

    I don't think so, it's not because of the failure of bb10 but the exits of hardware business. Turning BlackBerry into software company any CEO would have done, as they were earning good in software side and loosing in hardware. So they decided to dump BB10, Hardware and let go all the employees and turned themselve as Software.

    Apart from CB forum how many of us still knows BlackBerry still exist in market?? Hand full of few,

    India, considered as one of the big market for BlackBerry Devices yet 99% of people believe BlackBerry is over. How is it success if people doesn't if they actually exists.?

    For me Chen isn't the guy who succeed in surviving BlackBerry as Co.

    Posted via CB10
    01-06-18 12:53 AM
  14. conite's Avatar
    Turning BlackBerry into software company any CEO would have done
    Supporting BB10 and BBOS Customers and Rewarding Your Loyalty | Inside BlackBerry-tapatalk_1481741154449.jpg
    01-06-18 01:01 AM
  15. conite's Avatar
    Apart from CB forum how many of us still knows BlackBerry still exist in market?? Hand full of few,

    India, considered as one of the big market for BlackBerry Devices yet 99% of people believe BlackBerry is over. How is it success if people doesn't if they actually exists.?
    BlackBerry does not exist in the device market. Did you not just go over that?

    Or have you switched topics and are now discussing the effectiveness of TCL's and Optiemus Infracom's marketing of their own products?
    01-06-18 01:03 AM
  16. BriannaJL's Avatar
    Indeed, in my engineering business, only I do work on my Passport (presentations, file managing, editing and reviewing text and papers, correcting theses and papers). Everyone around me with iphones and android phones use theirs for phone calls, some very short emails (with typos), and entertainment, rarely for real creative work.

    Posted via CB10
    Fortunately, you have a Passport which allows you to do "real creative work" such as presentations, file managing, etc. Wow, you are delusional.
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    01-06-18 02:59 AM
  17. Invictus0's Avatar
    Turning BlackBerry into software company any CEO would have done, as they were earning good in software side and loosing in hardware.
    BlackBerry's software business when Chen joined made up such a small part of the company that it was practically non existent.

    Chen's strategy was to essentially grow the software business and have devices benefit from it. While I'm sure there was a benefit on some level, we know they still couldn't sell enough devices to make the division profitable.
    01-06-18 09:33 AM
  18. markmall's Avatar
    John Chen is an old fashioned quiet, humble, clear-thinkibg, results-oriented CEO. He's not interested in celebrity or power. He quietly came in, made a bunch of difficult decisions based on business reality, and saved a company from ruin at a time when no one thought it was possible, including the original founders and many shareholders.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Oh, really? You must not remember all of his bloviating on TV and referring to the company in the first person. ("If I decide I will leave the device business," etc.)

    He only started keeping his head down when everything he did failed and he had to buy startups to goose his revenue numbers.


    Posted via CB10
    01-07-18 05:55 PM
  19. markmall's Avatar
    BlackBerry does not exist in the device market. Did you not just go over that?

    Or have you switched topics and are now discussing the effectiveness of TCL's and Optiemus Infracom's marketing of their own products?
    I think he is pointing out that the brand is so dead that any alleged turnaround is not successful.

    Do we really need Chen to buy tech companies for us when we can buy them ourselves? Look at the Nasdaq. Has Chen beaten the Nasdaq with his acquisitions? The brand is a negative when slapped on these other companies.

    Posted via CB10
    01-07-18 06:02 PM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I think he is pointing out that the brand is so dead that any alleged turnaround is not successful.

    Do we really need Chen to buy tech companies for us when we can buy them ourselves? Look at the Nasdaq. Has Chen beaten the Nasdaq with his acquisitions? The brand is a negative when slapped on these other companies.

    Posted via CB10
    If shareholders are unhappy, they should launch a proxy for his removal.
    01-07-18 06:42 PM
  21. conite's Avatar
    I think he is pointing out that the brand is so dead that any alleged turnaround is not successful.

    Do we really need Chen to buy tech companies for us when we can buy them ourselves? Look at the Nasdaq. Has Chen beaten the Nasdaq with his acquisitions? The brand is a negative when slapped on these other companies.

    Posted via CB10
    The share price has gone up 70% since devices were finally dumped just over a year ago.

    Also:
    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/te...211051378.html

    "As growth investors consider which technology stocks they should invest in 2018, the top two candidates are BlackBerry Ltd. (TSX:BB)(NASDAQ:BBRY) and Shopify Inc (TSX:SHOP)(NYSE:SHOP)."
    01-07-18 07:03 PM
  22. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    If shareholders are unhappy, they should launch a proxy for his removal.
    Considering that the stock is up 127% since John Chen took over in November 2013, after having fallen from $144 to $6 a share under the previous two CEOs, I think his job is safe for the time being!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    01-07-18 07:12 PM
  23. markmall's Avatar
    Considering that the stock is up 127% since John Chen took over in November 2013, after having fallen from $144 to $6 a share under the previous two CEOs, I think his job is safe for the time being!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I don't think that is right. I had this same argument about a year ago. It has been bouncing around $7-$14 after the deal went through. I see if has just spiked up. Why I'm not sure. Chen sold off the trademark to a company in Indonesia?

    If you were great at timing wild fluctuations, if would be a great trading stock.

    Posted via CB10
    01-07-18 11:57 PM
  24. conite's Avatar
    I don't think that is right. I had this same argument about a year ago. It has been bouncing around $7-$14 after the deal went through. I see if has just spiked up. Why I'm not sure. Chen sold off the trademark to a company in Indonesia?

    If you were great at timing wild fluctuations, if would be a great trading stock.

    Posted via CB10
    Too bad you didn't invest a year ago - you'd be up 70%.

    There was another recent bump too because of the monster announcement of the partnership with Baidu.

    BlackBerry and Baidu team up to accelerate deployment of connected and autonomous vehicle tech https://www.crackberry.com/blackberr...cle-technology

    Not to mention a couple of major BlackBerry Radar deals.
    01-08-18 12:08 AM
  25. stlabrat's Avatar
    "If any of floated theories were valid - lawsuits and legal charges should be field. " if my memory serve me right, the law course teach you not sue the penniless, but the one with deep pocket... besides, lawsuits further depress the share price create instability for the remaining hardware (they still got gov contract to fulfill and BES to bank on at the time... if you pull the plug right the way, you had Gov after you, you might end up making HW/SW at lost to fulfill contract regardless on top of the suits... BB legal team at time was not famous to win fight = not like Apple team).
    01-08-18 05:48 AM
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