01-17-18 12:00 PM
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  1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I don't know 'how many' but I'm going to guess more than a few. At least since you don't specify BB10, anyway.

    For one, I really believe that mobile devices are pretty much at their plateau as far as advancements go... compare the iPhone 3 to the 5 and now the 6 to the 8, what once was a huge jump from one generation of device to the next is now marginal improvements at most. The same thing happened with computers and each generation of "Pentium" processor. These days, a laptop from 5 years ago (assuming it wasn't too shabby when it was new) can hold its own pretty well against brand new models.

    How much better can they make a mobile camera than what's already available? The screen, the battery, the processor? How much thinner can they make a smartphone? How much smaller the bezels? Aside from marginal improvements or 'gimmicky' features like facial scanning, I don't see the next 5 years as all that exciting, to be completely honest.

    It isn't too hard to imagine people using a KEYone in another 5 years, for example. "Updates" are relative because as long as all of the necessary apps and features are working, most people don't actually care. And, with Android, you're still going to get app updates for years after you stop receiving OS updates... that's far more important to *most* users. Honestly, the majority of people don't even know what version of operating system they have. They are running Android, that's all they know.

    There is no good reason to upgrade your phone every 2 years. It's a habitual thing, perpetuated by the carriers and the big phone manufacturers, but ultimately not necessary. In my opinion, this will always be one of the greatest strengths AND weaknesses of BlackBerry devices; people who love their Berry just hang onto it for so long that they never had the same upgrade cycle that companies like Apple and Samsung do with their 'loyal' customers.
    Also, as I've argued previously, 90% of the commercial value of owning a mobile phone for a typical professional involves tasks that don't require more than a very basic processor with 2-3 GB of RAM:

    Email
    Messaging
    Phone
    Reading documents
    Light editing
    Simple cloud-based business apps where all the phone does is redraw the screen with text.
    Light video

    The hardware that will work in 2017 should still work in 2020-21. The only reason it wouldn't is that Android is changing quickly, and the complex, distributed supply chain (hardware, OS, and apps) that is both Android's biggest strength and weakness isn't willing to set a standard of support longer than the bare minimum because there isn't a revenue model to pay for it.

    IMO, this is a serious problem for users that is unlikely to be addressed in the short term because most buyers have accepted the short product cycle. At some point, as smart phones mature, this will get disrupted, because there is so much waste in the current business's model driving up costs for everyone and under-delivering value to consumers.

    But there's no telling what the timing of that disruption will be.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    elfabio80 and Newfangled like this.
    12-24-17 07:10 PM
  2. howarmat's Avatar
    The future, perhaps sadly, is in the person in their 20s that is starting their "professional" career. BB10 and its shortcomings is laughable to them and many more too. The hardware is behind, the software is lacking most ANY current apps on its own. Sideloading and such is not the answer. Hell no one jailbreaks their iphone anymore. It's not about upgrading every 2 years from here out its just trying to actually be current and modern and not the stone age per say. That is what BB10 is basically, the stone age.
    12-24-17 07:34 PM
  3. wingnut666's Avatar
    The future, perhaps sadly, is in the person in their 20s that is starting their "professional" career. BB10 and its shortcomings is laughable to them and many more too. The hardware is behind, the software is lacking most ANY current apps on its own. Sideloading and such is not the answer. Hell no one jailbreaks their iphone anymore. It's not about upgrading every 2 years from here out its just trying to actually be current and modern and not the stone age per say. That is what BB10 is basically, the stone age.
    oh man i remember 2015...the stone ages were a blast!!

    Posted via CBX
    falbo and ppeters914 like this.
    12-24-17 09:43 PM
  4. markmall's Avatar
    I think having you drive in my part of Tampa Bay alone would blow you away. My area of unincorporated Hillsborough County is made up of 5 zip codes. My zip code is close to 50,000 people. Our area of Florida is considered open compared to South Florida.

    I used to laugh at big city folk when they would make fun of my area 30 years ago. We kinda were a cow town back then. Now, if my area (Brandon) incorporated to a city, we could exceed population of Tampa (next door).

    All perspective I guess..
    OT but since we went there, we are becoming more and more badly overpopulated. Our immigration policy in the U.S. and perhaps Canada is the cause.

    Posted via CB10
    12-24-17 10:41 PM
  5. markmall's Avatar
    not every one in the world is rich, Conite. when you spend your hard earned money on a quality product by a company you trust, and that quality device still serves you well, why shop for a replacement? especially at these new pricetags. ridiculous. and the devices? CRAP.

    Posted via CBX
    It's more than money. Even in tech there are classics that just do the job elegantly. My BB10 devices are like knives in my collection. I use them for a specific purpose because they do it best. I carry other knives for other purposes -- mainly dating apps.

    Posted via CB10
    12-24-17 10:47 PM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    The future, perhaps sadly, is in the person in their 20s that is starting their "professional" career. BB10 and its shortcomings is laughable to them and many more too. The hardware is behind, the software is lacking most ANY current apps on its own. Sideloading and such is not the answer. Hell no one jailbreaks their iphone anymore. It's not about upgrading every 2 years from here out its just trying to actually be current and modern and not the stone age per say. That is what BB10 is basically, the stone age.
    Meh. It really depends what you need a phone for. I have Apple and Android devices for when I want them, but my BB10 phones are still my "money" phones for making a living. I generate 75% of my company's revenue via detailed email exchanges, so all I care about from 5 am - 9 pm Mon-Fri is having the best phone for email.

    But I absolutely agree about not sideloading apps on BB10. In my experience it's not worth the trouble. The apps are old, it degrades the phone's performance, and it's a security nightmare.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-25-17 12:50 AM
  7. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It's more than money. Even in tech there are classics that just do the job elegantly. My BB10 devices are like knives in my collection. I use them for a specific purpose because they do it best. I carry other knives for other purposes -- mainly dating apps.

    Posted via CB10
    Right. BB10 phones work well for getting paid, but not necessarily for getting laid.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-25-17 12:54 AM
  8. falbo's Avatar
    It's more than money. Even in tech there are classics that just do the job elegantly. My BB10 devices are like knives in my collection. I use them for a specific purpose because they do it best. I carry other knives for other purposes -- mainly dating apps.

    Posted via CB10
    Not a good a idea to bring knives with you on a date. It's just not going to cut it ;-).

    Posted via CB10
    ppeters914 likes this.
    12-25-17 04:46 AM
  9. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    I am fully aware of different application that required different power management - this was one of the key shortfalls almost sinked early Z10 (small battery... limited memory... don't believe the concurrent design of software/hardware were excuted.. at least not shown in the 1st version of Z10 with 1Gb memory). However, BB10.3.2 and 2 Gb memory with proper power mgr that shown in Z30 - larger battery and current K1 indicated maturity of both hardware/software - concurrent design...
    I guess you missed future requirement of processing if 5G in place. if network speed is so fast (few sec to transmit a full length movie), many local processing can be minimized at handset level... therefore, the power consumption might not be that high anyhow (signaling is another issue... Amp power consumption may not be reduced... that is why IBM solution of 3 key challenges of 5G is very interesting). IMHO.
    We will have to wait and see what actually comes of the 5G development. But the design goals of high bit rates, low latency and low power consumption argue against using a traditional GPU for SDR in the mobile devices. A GPU is optimised for taking scene parameters and filling a frame buffer. Diverting that path can be costly in time and power. The other issue is that, especially to make the latency goals using massive MIMO and NOMA will probably mean high utilisation of the radio when in high density areas, particularly for mobile devices.

    5G is indeed interesting but with Etlsalat rolling out 5G networking from TRA without any mobile devices available could be the start of fragmentation. But we will have to see.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.3.2205
    12-25-17 09:34 AM
  10. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Right. BB10 phones work well for getting paid, but not necessarily for getting laid.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    New ad campaign.
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    12-25-17 12:26 PM
  11. stlabrat's Avatar
    We will have to wait and see what actually comes of the 5G development. ...
    5G is indeed interesting but with Etlsalat rolling out 5G networking from TRA without any mobile devices available could be the start of fragmentation. But we will have to see.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.3.2205
    who ever the 1st figure it out a commercial viable application will be the next king (I mean profitable one). dynamic transmiting x-ray image of patient in emergency car prior to reach to hospital, remote robotic surgery, mining, sensing, etc. but not going to be the one current app covers... infrastructure 1st or last mile 1st (handset or other form) is a chicken and egg ... at least one thing for sure, it is not going to be incremetive change like 4G... let's the game change begin... ;-).
    12-25-17 04:02 PM
  12. johnsliderbb's Avatar

    But I absolutely agree about not sideloading apps on BB10. In my experience it's not worth the trouble. The apps are old, it degrades the phone's performance, and it's a security nightmare.
    Huh? Yalp gives me the Outlook app and Naked Browser. F-Droid some others. All up to date.

    Where are those old troublesome unsecure apps coming from?

    Posted via CB10
    12-25-17 06:55 PM
  13. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Huh? Yalp gives me the Outlook app and Naked Browser. F-Droid some others. All up to date.

    Where are those old troublesome unsecure apps coming from?

    Posted via CB10
    It's easy to post a compromised APK on the Internet and claim it's legitimate. In some cases it's totally bogus but in others it may seem to function correctly. No big deal for a person who is comfortable taking the risk,with their own data but it's a major offense of negligence that could lead to getting fined or fired in an organization that has a security policy.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    app_Developer likes this.
    12-25-17 09:48 PM
  14. johnsliderbb's Avatar
    On the internet?

    Sure. The 2 examples referred to however or no more or less on the internet than Google Play Store.

    Just dowloading apk's from any random site is another thing, agree.

    Posted via CB10
    12-26-17 05:50 PM
  15. Invictus0's Avatar
    I think what bb10adopter111 is trying to say is unless Google Play was preloaded onto your device by an OEM (i.e., BlackBerry) it's only as good as your trust in that source. There's no way to verify that the app you're installing is the same app that the developer uploaded to Google Play and there's no way for Google to remove an installed app on BB10 if it's flagged as malicious.
    12-26-17 06:30 PM
  16. app_Developer's Avatar
    It's easy to post a compromised APK on the Internet and claim it's legitimate. In some cases it's totally bogus but in others it may seem to function correctly. No big deal for a person who is comfortable taking the risk,with their own data but it's a major offense of negligence that could lead to getting fined or fired in an organization that has a security policy.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    This isn’t just a theoretical issue. This is a daily occurrence for banking apps where people are trying to steal credentials.

    You should never, ever install a banking app from a source other than Play or the App Store.
    Invictus0 likes this.
    12-26-17 06:55 PM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    This isn’t just a theoretical issue. This is a daily occurrence for banking apps where people are trying to steal credentials.

    You should never, ever install a banking app from a source other than Play or the App Store.
    Can't any compromised app from outside source really be a Trojan horse to Android device?
    12-26-17 06:58 PM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Can't any compromised app from outside source really be a Trojan horse to Android device?
    Play Protect still scans apps installed from unknown sources. That helps a bit.
    12-26-17 07:07 PM
  19. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Can't any compromised app from outside source really be a Trojan horse to Android device?
    Certainly. Considering that many organizations don't even trust the apps in the Google Play Store unless they are specifically white-listed, no app from an unauthorized source should be assumed to be safe.

    Of course, we know that many of them are fine, so users can decide for themselves what risks they wish to take with their own information. Just don't do that with others' information.

    Also, many users and most enterprises are running other tools to help protect from and detect bad behavior, but it's not a great idea to rely on protection and detection instead of simple hygiene and prevention.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-26-17 08:01 PM
  20. bergmannap's Avatar
    2 YEARS! Does anyone believe that in those 2 years BlackBerry will find a way to fix the Web Browser so it doesn't shut/restart at random, be able to play YouTube videos, and "finish" loading Web pages????? I've always been a BB supporter (16 years), but I'm losing my patience. BAD BIZ, BlackBerry!
    12-27-17 09:31 AM
  21. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    2 YEARS! Does anyone believe that in those 2 years BlackBerry will find a way to fix the Web Browser so it doesn't shut/restart at random, be able to play YouTube videos, and "finish" loading Web pages????? I've always been a BB supporter (16 years), but I'm losing my patience. BAD BIZ, BlackBerry!
    No. That's not what they are offering. There will be no more development of the browser or any other BB10 components. They will simply continue to support BB10 on their enterprise EMM solutions.

    We've gotten almost five years out of BB10, and many functions are rock solid, but don't expect any more updates or improvements.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-27-17 09:49 AM
  22. Invictus0's Avatar
    2 YEARS! Does anyone believe that in those 2 years BlackBerry will find a way to fix the Web Browser so it doesn't shut/restart at random, be able to play YouTube videos, and "finish" loading Web pages????? I've always been a BB supporter (16 years), but I'm losing my patience. BAD BIZ, BlackBerry!
    That doesn't sound normal. Are you running any Android apps on your device?
    12-27-17 11:20 AM
  23. wingnut666's Avatar
    That doesn't sound normal. Are you running any Android apps on your device?
    i was going to say something, but then i noticed he's been 'waiting' for these issues to resolve themselves? meh.

    Posted via CBX
    12-27-17 11:28 AM
  24. bergmannap's Avatar
    No, I'm not waiting for the issues to fix themselves. I have been on with "Tech" support, 3x BBOS10.3.3.2205 reinstalls. It is only the native OS browser that does that. @blackberryhelp can't help. Just states that they cannot release any software updates in public. I have loaded Google Play + androids since, using Cobalt232 process. I can use the Android Browser, AlphaBrowser ok. Just NOT the BlackBerry Browser.
    12-27-17 12:03 PM
  25. DonHB's Avatar
    But a GPU would not be a good platform for SDR on a smartphone. They are too power hungry and the signalling is designed for easy implementation in hardware, either ASIC or FPGA. There is also the data movement from the processor core to the GPU and back which can erase the advantage of the GPU if it isn't substantial enough. The same reasoning applies to GPS receivers. In a smartphone they could use the GH, but it is much more efficient to use an ASIC.

    BB10 does use the GPU to accelerate JavaScript both in the browser and in the QML part of applications UI.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.3.2205
    SDR was an afterthought. I was thinking more of DSP. People have been using GPUs as DSPs on the desktop for a while and figured it could be time to start doing similar things in mobile. With Neutrino it may be possible to have a single OS (and perhaps a single instance of it) running on the device making it possible to more efficiently determine the use of the GPU at any time. Conceptually, but overly simplified, a Tegra like SoC (and some Tesla inside) with radios added, software defined or not that adopts a mesh architecture like Intel is beginning to do. Taking some of the fast sleep/wake aspects from current CPUs into the GPU would make it more battery friendly.
    12-27-17 12:05 PM
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