01-17-18 11:00 AM
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  1. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    i am happy with 2 years down to the road: (1) BB10 is strip down QNX (in order to run it on handset with limited battery... QNX is from industry platform that machine plug in to the wall). BB currently use QNX on truck and other stuff, anytime, they have right to switch on to what ever the platform they see fit to benefit from prior work of BB10, such as utilize memory and smaller battery (appear to be OK after BB10.3.2).

    ...
    I appreciate what you are saying, but like so many others you are mistaken about how a QNX installation is built. Yes there are many QNX uses that are power hungry and tied to external power grids. But that is a feature of the application, not the OS. When building up a QNX instance you start with the micro-kernel and add the software that you need. There are many options, some focus on computing power, large amounts of memory and many CPU cores. Others focus on small energy efficient battery friendly installations.

    The most challenging aspect of making BB10, or any other OS, good for small battery powered designs is controlling how third party applications behave.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.3.2205
    DonHB likes this.
    12-24-17 07:42 AM
  2. wingnut666's Avatar
    the way i see it blackberry will have to leave the bbid/protect server running. you cant just pull the plug on a couple million users when you have NOT GONE BANKRUPT. they can kill off bbw all they want, they can act like bb10 doesnt exist, but dont lock me out off the device that i paid for and love. speaking of bbw..i havent seen an app update in forever, but hopefully those few devs left will work toward a 'golden' version of their apps to live on indefinitely (man i wish adrian sachi would)
    ...whats the easiest what to back up and restore a blackberry app? i keep all my apk's but on a fresh install i'm forced to download all my bbw apps again. Sachesi can do this, right? but can i do it on my phone?

    Posted via CBX
    12-24-17 10:05 AM
  3. conite's Avatar
    the way i see it blackberry will have to leave the bbid/protect server running. you cant just pull the plug on a couple million users when you have NOT GONE BANKRUPT. they can kill off bbw all they want, they can act like bb10 doesnt exist, but dont lock me out off the device that i paid for and love. speaking of bbw..i havent seen an app update in forever, but hopefully those few devs left will work toward a 'golden' version of their apps to live on indefinitely (man i wish adrian sachi would)
    ...whats the easiest what to back up and restore a blackberry app? i keep all my apk's but on a fresh install i'm forced to download all my bbw apps again. Sachesi can do this, right? but can i do it on my phone?

    Posted via CBX
    BB10 has less users than that now. I can't imagine more than a few hundred or a few thousand two years from now. They've now been given ample warning to migrate.

    The only way to backup/restore a native app is to use selective backup/restore with Link.
    12-24-17 10:13 AM
  4. DonHB's Avatar
    ...When building up a QNX instance you start with the micro-kernel and add the software that you need. There are many options, some focus on computing power, large amounts of memory and many CPU cores. Others focus on small energy efficient battery friendly installations.

    The most challenging aspect of making BB10, or any other OS, good for small battery powered designs is controlling how third party applications behave.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.3.2205
    What is interesting is the number of people here who believe that Neutrino has no benefits for mobile and cellular phones particularly. Rather, the SoCs currently in use were built to suit non-realtime/embedded OS's like Linux. But cell phones actually run embedded real-time OS's in addition to the OS (iOS, Android, etc.) that deliver the smart part of the phone.

    Neutrino would allow alternate designs. Perhaps with the GPU doing double duty as a DSP that could also facilitate software defined radios. Consider what Nvidia has been doing with their GPU tech for autonomous cars and scale it down inside a cell phone (battery friendly, etc) reducing the number of transistors dedicated to application specific purposes. Siri, Google Assistant and Cortana wouldn't need to phone home for help.
    12-24-17 10:19 AM
  5. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    the way i see it blackberry will have to leave the bbid/protect server running. you cant just pull the plug on a couple million users when you have NOT GONE BANKRUPT. they can kill off bbw all they want, they can act like bb10 doesnt exist, but dont lock me out off the device that i paid for and love.
    BlackBerry doesn’t have to do anything for phones they no longer support. Your only recourse if they shut down BBID is to either sue (in which case you probably won’t get very far), or boycott BlackBerry products forever.
    12-24-17 10:22 AM
  6. wingnut666's Avatar
    BB10 has less users than that now. I can't imagine more than a few hundred or a few thousand two years from now. They've now been given ample warning to migrate.

    The only way to backup/restore a native app is to use selective backup/restore with Link.
    LOL you're fully delusional now bud. i would imagine there's at least a few hundred thousand bb10 users who have no clue anything is amiss...and will be shocked if their trusty device becomes unusable.

    Posted via CBX
    12-24-17 11:52 AM
  7. wingnut666's Avatar
    I have never and will never use "link". i have Sachesi, but the backup function doesnt work. there must be a way to save the bar files from my phone for later installation via Sachesi?

    Posted via CBX
    12-24-17 11:55 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    LOL you're fully delusional now bud. i would imagine there's at least a few hundred thousand bb10 users who have no clue anything is amiss...and will be shocked if their trusty device becomes unusable.

    Posted via CBX
    Look 2 years into the future (Jan 2020). Honestly, how many people would still be holding on to devices from 2013-2015?

    If you think it would be more than a handful, it's not me who's delusional.
    12-24-17 11:56 AM
  9. wingnut666's Avatar
    Look 2 years into the future (Jan 2020). Honestly, how many people would still be holding on to devices from 2013-2015?

    If you think it would be more than a handful, it's not me who's delusional.
    in three years, my Passport hasnt slowed down or become any less useful to me. i've got a spare battery in case it fades. there's nothing else out there for me. i looked and looked. i hope something comes along in the next two years or i'll still be rockin' this amazing #realblackberry .

    Posted via CBX
    falbo likes this.
    12-24-17 12:10 PM
  10. wingnut666's Avatar
    Look 2 years into the future (Jan 2020). Honestly, how many people would still be holding on to devices from 2013-2015?

    If you think it would be more than a handful, it's not me who's delusional.
    not every one in the world is rich, Conite. when you spend your hard earned money on a quality product by a company you trust, and that quality device still serves you well, why shop for a replacement? especially at these new pricetags. ridiculous. and the devices? CRAP.

    Posted via CBX
    12-24-17 12:13 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    not every one in the world is rich, Conite. when you spend your hard earned money on a quality product by a company you trust, and that quality device still serves you well, why shop for a replacement? especially at these new pricetags. ridiculous. and the devices? CRAP.

    Posted via CBX
    You don't need to soapbox for my benefit. The question is, how many people will be realistically sporting a 5 to 7 year old device in Jan 2020 that hasn't received an update in over 3 years, or any new features in 5 years?
    Last edited by conite; 12-24-17 at 12:55 PM.
    12-24-17 12:17 PM
  12. Emaderton3's Avatar
    You don't need to soapbox for my benefit. The question is, how many people will be realistically sporting a 5 to 7 year old device in Jan 2020 that hasn't received an update in over 3 years?
    Pretty reasonable to assume there won't be many. I don't see people using phones that old now.
    12-24-17 12:33 PM
  13. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    LOL you're fully delusional now bud. i would imagine there's at least a few hundred thousand bb10 users who have no clue anything is amiss...and will be shocked if their trusty device becomes unusable.

    Posted via CBX
    There is no way to know with any certainty how many people currently rely on BB10, and certainly no breakdown of the proportion of personal vs. enterprise users.

    But we know that it's a very small percentage of the market, and that it will only shrink over the next two years.

    However, I agree with your point that, for users happy with the traditional BlackBerry functions of email, phone, SMS, calendar, contacts and tasks, they likely won't have any problems for a long time.

    People who want maps, weather, Android apps and the Web browser will probably see a steady degradation of service as APIs and Web standards evolve.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-24-17 01:12 PM
  14. wingnut666's Avatar
    You don't need to soapbox for my benefit. The question is, how many people will be realistically sporting a 5 to 7 year old device in Jan 2020 that hasn't received an update in over 3 years, or any new features in 5 years?
    globally? how many people are still using old flip phones or early iphones, etc? not hundreds, lots and lots.

    Posted via CBX
    12-24-17 01:21 PM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    globally? how many people are still using old flip phones or early iphones, etc? not hundreds, lots and lots.

    Posted via CBX
    Sure, but they are likely not a profitable market segment for manufacturers to serve, so they won't be accommodated by anyone but their carriers, with whom they spend money.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    12-24-17 01:27 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    globally? how many people are still using old flip phones or early iphones, etc? not hundreds, lots and lots.

    Posted via CBX
    Further, how many of that tiny subset would be horrified and feel cheated that their phone suddenly stopped working after 7 years? Answer: 4.
    Last edited by conite; 12-24-17 at 02:56 PM.
    12-24-17 02:38 PM
  17. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Further, how many of that tiny subset would be horrified and feel cheated that their phone suddenly stopped working after 7 years. Answer: 4.
    There certainly would be no rational reason to feel cheated. BlackBerry has been more loyal to BB10 than I would have been as CEO.

    Being horrified at the way the focus on apps and app stores has distracted from meaningful innovation in the actual mobile experience is a different matter.

    The one meaningful improvement IMO has been in the various voice activated assistants, but they are still primitive, and only usable in environments where talking out loud is appropriate (i.e., when the user is alone).
    12-24-17 02:55 PM
  18. Invictus0's Avatar
    globally? how many people are still using old flip phones or early iphones, etc? not hundreds, lots and lots.

    Posted via CBX
    Sure but flip phones generally don't have the same support requirements as a smartphone. The iPhone is currently successful enough that I doubt it's costing Apple much to support older devices through their services.
    12-24-17 02:57 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    Being horrified at the way the focus on apps and app stores has distracted from meaningful innovation in the actual mobile experience is a different matter.
    To me, that's just modular architecture that allows developers to code to their strengths and offer choice and customization.

    It substitutes for a giant, monolithic, one-size-fits-all solution.

    The best way forward is to ensure standards and the ability for the modules to "speak" to each other - and this is moving forward very quickly imo. I have no integration issues whatsoever.
    12-24-17 03:03 PM
  20. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    To me, that's just modular architecture that allows developers to code to their strengths and offer choice and customization.

    It substitutes for a giant, monolithic, one-size-fits-all solution.

    The best way forward is to ensure standards and the ability for the modules to "speak" to each other - and this is moving forward very quickly imo. I have no integration issues whatsoever.
    I agree that is a great way forward, and I see the movement in that area. From L to O, Android's progress has been consistently in the right direction. At that rate, I'm hopeful for a truly compelling offering by the time they get to S or T, and Taffy is my favorite candy!
    12-24-17 03:30 PM
  21. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    What is interesting is the number of people here who believe that Neutrino has no benefits for mobile and cellular phones particularly. Rather, the SoCs currently in use were built to suit non-realtime/embedded OS's like Linux. But cell phones actually run embedded real-time OS's in addition to the OS (iOS, Android, etc.) that deliver the smart part of the phone.

    Neutrino would allow alternate designs. Perhaps with the GPU doing double duty as a DSP that could also facilitate software defined radios. Consider what Nvidia has been doing with their GPU tech for autonomous cars and scale it down inside a cell phone (battery friendly, etc) reducing the number of transistors dedicated to application specific purposes. Siri, Google Assistant and Cortana wouldn't need to phone home for help.
    I wasn't going to reply, but the whole 'I know more about how many BB10 users there are' thread that eventually takes over the interesting discussion is too depressing.

    The radio is usually a proprietary RTOS. There would be benefits to using a mature and established RTOS, and SOC manufacturers may be, probably are using one. But the identity will probably be kept as a trade secret. Just like finding out the Intel Management Engine runs on Minix allowed substantial inroads into reverse engineering it, the same would happen to the baseband code if it hasn't already.

    But a GPU would not be a good platform for SDR on a smartphone. They are too power hungry and the signalling is designed for easy implementation in hardware, either ASIC or FPGA. There is also the data movement from the processor core to the GPU and back which can erase the advantage of the GPU if it isn't substantial enough. The same reasoning applies to GPS receivers. In a smartphone they could use the GH, but it is much more efficient to use an ASIC.

    BB10 does use the GPU to accelerate JavaScript both in the browser and in the QML part of applications UI.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.3.2205
    12-24-17 03:34 PM
  22. stlabrat's Avatar
    I appreciate what you are saying, but like so many others you are mistaken about how a QNX installation is built. Yes there are many QNX uses that are power hungry and tied to external power grids. But that is a feature of the application, not the OS. When building up a QNX instance you start with the micro-kernel and add the software that you need. There are many options, some focus on computing power, large amounts of memory and many CPU cores. Others focus on small energy efficient battery friendly installations.

    The most challenging aspect of making BB10, or any other OS, good for small battery powered designs is controlling how third party applications behave.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.3.2205
    I am fully aware of different application that required different power management - this was one of the key shortfalls almost sinked early Z10 (small battery... limited memory... don't believe the concurrent design of software/hardware were excuted.. at least not shown in the 1st version of Z10 with 1Gb memory). However, BB10.3.2 and 2 Gb memory with proper power mgr that shown in Z30 - larger battery and current K1 indicated maturity of both hardware/software - concurrent design...
    I guess you missed future requirement of processing if 5G in place. if network speed is so fast (few sec to transmit a full length movie), many local processing can be minimized at handset level... therefore, the power consumption might not be that high anyhow (signaling is another issue... Amp power consumption may not be reduced... that is why IBM solution of 3 key challenges of 5G is very interesting). IMHO.
    12-24-17 04:35 PM
  23. stlabrat's Avatar
    the way i see it blackberry will have to leave the bbid/protect server running. you cant just pull the plug on a couple million users when you have NOT GONE BANKRUPT. they can kill off bbw all they want, they can act like bb10 doesnt exist, but dont lock me out off the device that i paid for and love. speaking of bbw..

    Posted via CBX
    question: did you know if Nokia still supporting their early device (smart phone OS or security update)? NOK still exist as network equipment company now... many thx.
    12-24-17 04:50 PM
  24. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    You don't need to soapbox for my benefit. The question is, how many people will be realistically sporting a 5 to 7 year old device in Jan 2020 that hasn't received an update in over 3 years, or any new features in 5 years?
    I don't know 'how many' but I'm going to guess more than a few. At least since you don't specify BB10, anyway.

    For one, I really believe that mobile devices are pretty much at their plateau as far as advancements go... compare the iPhone 3 to the 5 and now the 6 to the 8, what once was a huge jump from one generation of device to the next is now marginal improvements at most. The same thing happened with computers and each generation of "Pentium" processor. These days, a laptop from 5 years ago (assuming it wasn't too shabby when it was new) can hold its own pretty well against brand new models.

    How much better can they make a mobile camera than what's already available? The screen, the battery, the processor? How much thinner can they make a smartphone? How much smaller the bezels? Aside from marginal improvements or 'gimmicky' features like facial scanning, I don't see the next 5 years as all that exciting, to be completely honest.

    It isn't too hard to imagine people using a KEYone in another 5 years, for example. "Updates" are relative because as long as all of the necessary apps and features are working, most people don't actually care. And, with Android, you're still going to get app updates for years after you stop receiving OS updates... that's far more important to *most* users. Honestly, the majority of people don't even know what version of operating system they have. They are running Android, that's all they know.

    There is no good reason to upgrade your phone every 2 years. It's a habitual thing, perpetuated by the carriers and the big phone manufacturers, but ultimately not necessary. In my opinion, this will always be one of the greatest strengths AND weaknesses of BlackBerry devices; people who love their Berry just hang onto it for so long that they never had the same upgrade cycle that companies like Apple and Samsung do with their 'loyal' customers.
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    12-24-17 05:21 PM
  25. Invictus0's Avatar
    question: did you know if Nokia still supporting their early device (smart phone OS or security update)? NOK still exist as network equipment company now... many thx.
    Accenture took over development and support of Symbian and Microsoft purchased Nokia's devices division a few years after that so they don't have any control over it anymore.
    12-24-17 05:55 PM
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