01-17-18 12:00 PM
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  1. DonHB's Avatar
    Why do people always criticize "dumb" phones? What's wrong with a phone that does solid calls, texts, emails? Who cares if BB10 phones are little more than "dumb" phones by 2020? They can still do the basic functions. Plus light browsing, docs to go, music, videos. Who knows, by 2020 maybe some of us will have lost enough brain cells through natural aging that we prefer BB10 "dumb" simplicity to the fancy 3D-AMOLED, AR, foldable, mini-tablet gaming media phones that will exist by then...
    And I even got Lets Encrypt certs working in the 10.3.2 browser.
    12-19-17 03:36 PM
  2. INFOmuzRON's Avatar
    I am a Blackberry lover. I bought a PRIV when I could no longer get a critical work-related app to work on my Classic.
    I could have chosen Apple or a different Android. I chose a BB product instead.
    I moved my wife from an iPhone to a PRIV.

    So, I am NOT anti-Blackberry, not in the slightest.

    What I AM against is this fallacy that BB can bring BB10 back.
    I find the idea that they can only be called a software company if they have their own OS to be ridiculous.
    well an operating system is proprietary software. i dont know whats ridiculous about that? if you can elaborate.
    12-19-17 03:41 PM
  3. DonHB's Avatar
    I think everyone is missing the obvious. The company was done when Chen arrived.

    NO MONEY except for what Fairfax put in with Chen executing the plan as has been done.
    Yet more BB10 phones were introduced under Chen then Heins.
    12-19-17 03:47 PM
  4. glwerry's Avatar
    well an operating system is proprietary software. i dont know whats ridiculous about that? if you can elaborate.
    I have been elaborating on that.

    ALL OF THE BB10 DEVELOPMENT TEAM HAS BEEN LAID OFF. FIRED.
    There are NO developers for BB10 left any more at BB.

    Their management (likely the board of directors, but I don't know for sure) has publicly stated that BB is now a software company and that they will not build handsets any more.
    There was a formal announcement this week that BB10 would only receive 2 more years of minimal support.

    BB lost MASSIVE amounts of money - I don't know the actual figure, but it was enough to nearly bankrupt the company - trying to build and market BB10 and the phones.

    Plus which, you CAN be a software company WITHOUT having a proprietary OS!
    Examples:
    • Oracle
    • JD Edwards
    • SAP
    • Cognos (part of IBM now)
    • (just to name a few)


    It would be like GM starting to produce the Pontiac car line again, after they had sold the factories and laid off all the designers - they would have to rebuild from the ground up.
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    12-19-17 03:50 PM
  5. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Erroneous post dupe...
    12-19-17 03:50 PM
  6. glwerry's Avatar
    Yet more BB10 phones were introduced under Chen then Heins.
    My understanding is that those phones were already in the pipeline and BB was trying to get them sold off.
    12-19-17 03:51 PM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Yet more BB10 phones were introduced under Chen then Heins.
    That's because 1. Heins was gone less than year after BB10 introduction and 2. Chen was stuck with BB10 components already obligated to pay for so use it or lose it. Any revenue was better than no revenue. That's why little money was spent on selling the hardware. Minimal risk for ANY reward over $0
    12-19-17 03:51 PM
  8. INFOmuzRON's Avatar
    I have been elaborating on that.

    ALL OF THE BB10 DEVELOPMENT TEAM HAS BEEN LAID OFF. FIRED.
    There are NO developers for BB10 left any more at BB.

    Their management (likely the board of directors, but I don't know for sure) has publicly stated that BB is now a software company and that they will not build handsets any more.
    There was a formal announcement this week that BB10 would only receive 2 more years of minimal support.

    BB lost MASSIVE amounts of money - I don't know the actual figure, but it was enough to nearly bankrupt the company - trying to build and market BB10 and the phones.

    Plus which, you CAN be a software company WITHOUT having a proprietary OS!
    Examples:
    • Oracle
    • JD Edwards
    • SAP
    • Cognos (part of IBM now)
    • (just to name a few)


    It would be like GM starting to produce the Pontiac car line again, after they had sold the factories and laid off all the designers - they would have to rebuild from the ground up.
    sounds great so creating a software company to distribute other software developed by other software companies? is the point your trying to get across? just trying to understand
    12-19-17 03:54 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    Yet more BB10 phones were introduced under Chen then Heins.
    This has been answered a thousand times already. Massive supplier commitments needed to be burned through in order to extricate Blackberry from bb10 completely.
    12-19-17 03:55 PM
  10. glwerry's Avatar
    sounds great so creating a software company to distribute other software developed by other software companies? is the point your trying to get across? just trying to understand
    I have not followed everything that BB has done in terms of software - my interest in them had to do with phones.

    I do know that they had other software besides BB10 that I believe was developed in-house.
    They have since purchased other companies and other software products and integrated them into their stable of products.

    So did people like Microsoft, Oracle, SAP.
    12-19-17 03:59 PM
  11. DonHB's Avatar
    No, we are NOT on the same page.
    No.
    Building their own phones and hardware nearly bankrupted BB!!!!!!So, they GOT OUT of that business.
    Most people here who are advocates are for continued development of the OS (i.e. software).
    They sold all the hardware assets, laid off ALL the developers and hardware designers.
    There is NOTHING LEFT to build another BBOS!!
    Actually, Blackberry 10 was built on an asset they still have and are developing. It is called QNX Neutrino.
    They have made a DELIBERATE SHIFT in their corporate identity, to being a PURELY SOFTWARE company.
    So, NO, they SHOULD NOT "still found out a way to create their own OS".
    That effort nearly bankrupted the company once.
    I suspect inventory since BB10's introduction cost far more than OS R&D. Perhaps someone more knowledgable than me can suggest the ratio.
    It's a bit like saying IBM should go back to developing and marketing their 1950s vintage tabulating machines. It would be corporate madness.
    Well Linux and the API used by Neutrino are based on late 1960's technology used extensively in Android.
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    12-19-17 04:15 PM
  12. INFOmuzRON's Avatar
    I have not followed everything that BB has done in terms of software - my interest in them had to do with phones.

    I do know that they had other software besides BB10 that I believe was developed in-house.
    They have since purchased other companies and other software products and integrated them into their stable of products.

    So did people like Microsoft, Oracle, SAP.
    makes sense.
    sucks for patent laws on software but at the same time great.


    for a moment i thought you were trying to say metaphorically typing opening a McDonald's then selling Burger King inside.
    12-19-17 04:15 PM
  13. joeldf's Avatar
    sounds great so creating a software company to distribute other software developed by other software companies? is the point your trying to get across? just trying to understand
    BB10 was built on top of software developed by someone else and acquired in a purchase.

    You know, you were just talking about it...QNX.

    They are developing other things on top of QNX. How is that any different than what they've been doing with BB10? Only now, they are actually generating revenue.

    Why are you hung up on the idea the developing an OS is somehow the only thing that defines a "legitimate" software company?
    glwerry likes this.
    12-19-17 04:18 PM
  14. glwerry's Avatar
    No.
    Most people here who are advocates are for continued development of the OS (i.e. software).
    Actually, Blackberry 10 was built on an asset they still have and are developing. It is called QNX Neutrino.
    I suspect inventory since BB10's introduction cost far more than OS R&D. Perhaps someone more knowledgable than me can suggest the ratio.
    Well Linux and the API used by Neutrino are based on late 1960's technology used extensively in Android.
    When I was talking about assets I meant both hardware (in the sense of machinery, buildings, etc), but more importantly the PEOPLE. The TEAM is GONE.
    The fact that they still own QNX is moot - there is no team of knowledgeble people left to build / enhance BB10!

    Regarding the "advocates ... for continued development of the OS" - again, I mis-spoke - the development costs and maintenance costs of BB10 also factored into the near bankruptcy - I just don't know the exact ratios.

    Regarding the Linus / API being based on 1960's technology - yeah - I know. I've been in computing since 1978 and am a history buff. Technically, I believe that Unix dates from the EARLY 1960s. It has NOTHING to do with my example, because the IBM Tabulating machines were programmed in HARDWARE and not in software.
    I happen to have some wiring diagrams tucked away.

    In summary, BB just has NO business reason to try and resurrect BB10. None whatsoever.
    12-19-17 04:24 PM
  15. DonHB's Avatar
    This has been answered a thousand times already. Massive supplier commitments needed to be burned through in order to extricate Blackberry from bb10 completely.
    The last of the inventory was sold off in 2017. So, why not back in 2013, invest a modest amount in making the hardware more attractive to developers? Chen could even have told the board they had begun work on their Android platform by making Android Player Flow ready. ;-)
    12-19-17 04:25 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    @INFOmuzRON, BlackBerry QNX is a 100% fully-functional, BlackBerry-owned, stand-alone Real-Time-Operating-System.

    It is an ideal OS to handle IoT endpoints like autonomous-auto, car infotainment and middleware systems, and BlackBerry Radar. There is no benefit to an additional layer like BB10. It already has everything it needs. The whole system can be monitored from anywhere simply through a web-browser.
    glwerry likes this.
    12-19-17 04:26 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    The last of the inventory was sold off in 2017. So, why not back in 2013, invest a modest amount in making the hardware more attractive to developers? Chen could even have told the board they have begun work on their Android platform by making Android Player Flow ready. ;-)
    The time for investment was long over with. BB10's epitaph was already written. Not another dime was going to spent.
    12-19-17 04:27 PM
  18. Emaderton3's Avatar
    The last of the inventory was sold off in 2017. So, why not back in 2013, invest a modest amount in making the hardware more attractive to developers? Chen could even have told the board they had begun work on their Android platform by making Android Player Flow ready. ;-)
    They did try this. They had international conferences for developers and created a program with incentives. It failed.
    12-19-17 04:53 PM
  19. markmall's Avatar
    Sometimes you have to face the fact... the company you "love" is just a mindless beast with no soul and is really only interest in it's next victim.
    Would any Apple users describe Apple that way? That is no way to gain brand loyalty. If BlackBerry is only interested in selling software for trucking companies now then it doesn't matter (unless you are a trucking company).

    Posted via CB10
    INFOmuzRON likes this.
    12-19-17 05:01 PM
  20. DonHB's Avatar
    In summary, BB just has NO business reason to try and resurrect BB10. None whatsoever.
    Besides Amazon, do you know how many non-Google licenses are using Android?

    With BB10 EOL these non-Google Android platform players should get a real good deal from BlackBerry on all this BB10 stuff including BlackBerry World. They already have the expertise to replace the Android Player and they would get a deprecated native API too. The remaining BlackBerry handset customers probably dwarf what customers these platforms now have. The SailFish people could be the ones responsible for the Player's UX.

    Maybe BlackBerry would sell for the costly price of future development of QNX drivers.

    So, let other's have the privilege, but it isn't open source and there's that hardware root of trust...
    12-19-17 05:02 PM
  21. glwerry's Avatar
    Besides Amazon, do you know how many non-Google licenses are using Android?

    With BB10 EOL these non-Google Android platform players should get a real good deal from BlackBerry on all this BB10 stuff including BlackBerry World. They already have the expertise to replace the Android Player and they would get a deprecated native API too. The remaining BlackBerry handset customers probably dwarf what customers these platforms now have. The SailFish people could be the ones responsible for the Player's UX.

    Maybe BlackBerry would sell for the costly price of future development of QNX drivers.

    So, let other's have the privilege, but it isn't open source and there's that hardware root of trust...
    My understanding is that the replacement of "Android Player" - by which I assume you mean the ART that's stuck at 4.3 has nothing to do with expertise: it's a LEGAL thing. Since BB now licenses Android they are not allowed to deliver a fork of Android, which is what the ART is.

    I don't know how that would translate for someone like Sailfish - maybe there is a business case for letting someone else release it. I just don't see it happening and it's certainly NOT something that BB themselves is interested in pursuing.

    Now that I get thinking about this, BB had offered BB10 to others ALREADY, on a licensing basis. NO TAKERS.
    12-19-17 05:11 PM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Would any Apple users describe Apple that way? That is no way to gain brand loyalty. If BlackBerry is only interested in selling software for trucking companies now then it doesn't matter (unless you are a trucking company).

    Posted via CB10
    That's pretty much how things are now. BlackBerry is now automotive and security software play long-term.
    anon(9803228) likes this.
    12-19-17 05:16 PM
  23. conite's Avatar
    Besides Amazon, do you know how many non-Google licenses are using Android?

    With BB10 EOL these non-Google Android platform players should get a real good deal from BlackBerry on all this BB10 stuff including BlackBerry World. They already have the expertise to replace the Android Player and they would get a deprecated native API too. The remaining BlackBerry handset customers probably dwarf what customers these platforms now have. The SailFish people could be the ones responsible for the Player's UX.

    Maybe BlackBerry would sell for the costly price of future development of QNX drivers.

    So, let other's have the privilege, but it isn't open source and there's that hardware root of trust...
    Almost none. Even all the Chinese stuff can have Google Play Services installed after purchase. So can Amazon Fire.

    No need for a desert of obsolete, long-forgotten apps like BlackBerry World.
    12-19-17 05:17 PM
  24. INFOmuzRON's Avatar
    Would any Apple users describe Apple that way? That is no way to gain brand loyalty. If BlackBerry is only interested in selling software for trucking companies now then it doesn't matter (unless you are a trucking company).

    Posted via CB10
    im more convinced this forum is kinda full of anti-blackberry users. Or missing the fact that BlackBerry is building a different kind of ecosystem for them(BlackBerry) to thrive in and will soon realize that they cant neglect their mobile device... I miss those days where BlackBerry would throw in a PhoneCase or Holster for the device as a complimentary thanks for purchasing the device.
    12-19-17 05:26 PM
  25. INFOmuzRON's Avatar
    Almost none. Even all the Chinese stuff can have Google Play Services installed after purchase. So can Amazon Fire.

    No need for a desert of obsolete, long-forgotten apps like BlackBerry World.
    Samsung has Galaxy apps so to say BlackBerry World cant thrive is a misconception.
    12-19-17 05:28 PM
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