10-30-15 08:37 PM
46 12
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  1. Someone7272's Avatar
    I am not using Neutron Player, and I don't have any interest in switching to this software

    We're on 10.3.2 now, and I can't belive that there is still no ReplayGain support in the built-in music player on the BlackBerry 10 OS!
    The ReplayGain values which are tagged in all my music files are simply ignored.

    With music files encoded at varying volume levels, and this combined with the use of the music equalizer (which on many tracks encoded above a certain db level leads to clipping - also known as distortion and is therefore unusable), this functionality is becoming essential!
    Note that BlackBerry 7 didn't have this issue, and would dynamically reduce the volume of tracks encoded too loudly, this still isn't true ReplayGain, but made the music equalizer usable.

    This means that I still have to keep my BlackBerry Curve 9360 exclusively for music! I really hoped that BlackBerry 10 would allow me to carry one device, but it wasn't meant to be!
    Even my old iPhone has similar functionality, but uses "iTunes NORM" which is a completely different system, but accomplishes the same effect. ReplayGain is much more standardized.

    Am I missing something obvious, or is there seriously no ReplayGain support in the BlackBerry 10 music player?
    Does BlackBerry 10's built-in music player support iTunes NORM instead of ReplayGain?
    Or does it... ...simply not support any kind of volume leveling standard?
    (I checked out Neutron Music Player but it's paid software, isn't optimized for battery life, and at 4 just for ReplayGain functionality (which should be built into the OS music player!), tell me I'm not being unreasonable? Additionally, I am not a fan of its UI, and would much rather use the built-in music player.)
    Last edited by Someone7272; 10-11-15 at 03:57 PM.
    09-29-15 07:26 PM
  2. ronfc's Avatar
    You can use MP3Gain or AACGain (if you're using .m4a audio files).

    Cave, cave, moderator videt
    09-29-15 07:35 PM
  3. Someone7272's Avatar
    You can use MP3Gain or AACGain (if you're using .m4a audio files).
    Thanks, I personally use M4A files, and MP3Gain, but the problem is that the BlackBerry 10 OS built-in music player ignores the ReplayGain tags in the M4A files, and still plays them at full volume resulting in clipping/distortion. This doesn't happen on my iPhone or old BlackBerry OS 7 device.
    Sure, you can tag the files with ReplayGain values, but if the software playing the music files doesn't support ReplayGain, the tags will be ignored, and the music will play at full volume.

    It appears the ReplayGain is not supported by the BlackBerry 10 music player.
    09-29-15 07:37 PM
  4. ronfc's Avatar
    Thanks, I personally use M4A files, and MP3Gain, but the problem is that the BlackBerry 10 OS built-in music player ignores the ReplayGain tags in the M4A files, and still plays them at full volume resulting in clipping/distortion. This doesn't happen on my iPhone or old BlackBerry OS 7 device.
    Sure, you can tag the files with ReplayGain values, but if the software playing the music files doesn't support ReplayGain, the tags will be ignored, and the music will play at full volume.

    It appears the ReplayGain is not supported by the BlackBerry 10 music player.
    Mine appears to read ReplayGain values as the volume seems to be what I set on the MP3Gain, but I don't know if it was really implemented or not. If it doesn't, we can't really blame BlackBerry, knowing their situation, these niche things are not priority.

    Cave, cave, moderator videt
    09-29-15 09:08 PM
  5. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Thanks, I personally use M4A files, and MP3Gain, but the problem is that the BlackBerry 10 OS built-in music player ignores the ReplayGain tags in the M4A files, and still plays them at full volume resulting in clipping/distortion. This doesn't happen on my iPhone or old BlackBerry OS 7 device.
    Sure, you can tag the files with ReplayGain values, but if the software playing the music files doesn't support ReplayGain, the tags will be ignored, and the music will play at full volume.

    It appears the ReplayGain is not supported by the BlackBerry 10 music player.
    If you are hearing clipping it means song was encoded clipped. Replay gain won't fix that.
    ronfc likes this.
    09-29-15 09:56 PM
  6. Someone7272's Avatar
    Mine appears to read ReplayGain values as the volume seems to be what I set on the MP3Gain, but I don't know if it was really implemented or not. If it doesn't, we can't really blame BlackBerry, knowing their situation, these niche things are not priority.
    Hmm that's strange... prepare for the onslaught of questions!
    Are you running a leak? Did you use ReplayGain software which actually re-encodes the audio file (that would be a really bad idea btw) to 'force' the ReplayGain? And, for safe measure, it's definitely the built-in music player on BlackBerry 10? What OS (package version + OS version) are you running?

    • My Z10 is running 10.3.2.2474 + 10.3.2.2639

    I am certain that it's ignoring ReplayGain values because there is a certain song (which has ReplayGain values) that was recorded at a very low volume, and on my iPhone, the sound is brought up to a comfortable listening level, whereas on my Z10, it's still whisper quiet, even at maximum device volume.

    You make a valid point that BlackBerry's situation isn't ideal, and my biggest fear is that they will kill support for BlackBerry 10, and become "just another Android device manufacturer", as if we don't have enough of them. Guess I'll have to jump back on the iPhone bandwagon should this happen, as much as I hate Apple.
    09-29-15 10:08 PM
  7. Someone7272's Avatar
    If you are hearing clipping it means song was encoded clipped. Replay gain won't fix that.
    Sorry, but I don't think that's true. When activating the EQ, the Z10 boosts the audio beyond its own limits which is resulting in clipping. ReplayGain would lower the original volume level for louder tracks, creating headroom for the EQ boost.
    How do I know? The same audio is not clipped or distorted when played on an iPhone, Windows PC or BlackBerry OS 7 device, even when using an EQ.
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    09-29-15 10:16 PM
  8. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Sorry, but I don't think that's true. When activating the EQ, the Z10 boosts the audio beyond its own limits which is resulting in clipping. ReplayGain would lower the original volume level for louder tracks, creating headroom for the EQ boost.
    How do I know? The same audio is not clipped or distorted when played on an iPhone, Windows PC or BlackBerry OS 7 device, even when using an EQ.
    You are probably correct. But that means you are boosting something beyond the headroom of the encoding. How much boost are adding?
    09-29-15 10:31 PM
  9. Someone7272's Avatar
    You are probably correct. But that means you are boosting something beyond the headroom of the encoding. How much boost are adding?
    This I am not sure. The BlackBerry bass boost preset seems to add quite a beefy amount to the low end. But I've noticed the EQ only causes clipping in certain songs, especially those which have been badly mastered, already been pushed to the limits etc. Songs which have been mastered properly don't end up clipped when using the EQ.

    However, if the music player supported ReplayGain, it could be used to bring the levels down on the badly mastered tracks, which would allow headroom for the EQ to boost the low end without clipping. BlackBerry OS 7 devices seem to lower the volume of the track when selecting the EQ, which solves this problem. So I'm kinda surprised that BlackBerry 10 doesn't do this.

    Obviously I can't share the audio tracks I'm listening to on here, but to try it yourself, grab a song from a reputable source like iTunes (make sure it's not a "Mastered for iTunes" track), something Commercial/Chart, Drum and Bass, Dance or Deep House, then try and bass boost it on BlackBerry 10. I bet it will be severely clipped.

    Even some "Mastered for iTunes" tracks are still badly mastered and exhibit this problem, but not many.
    DrBoomBotz likes this.
    09-29-15 11:18 PM
  10. ronfc's Avatar
    Hmm that's strange... prepare for the onslaught of questions!
    Are you running a leak? Did you use ReplayGain software which actually re-encodes the audio file (that would be a really bad idea btw) to 'force' the ReplayGain? And, for safe measure, it's definitely the built-in music player on BlackBerry 10? What OS (package version + OS version) are you running?

    • My Z10 is running 10.3.2.2474 + 10.3.2.2639

    I am certain that it's ignoring ReplayGain values because there is a certain song (which has ReplayGain values) that was recorded at a very low volume, and on my iPhone, the sound is brought up to a comfortable listening level, whereas on my Z10, it's still whisper quiet, even at maximum device volume.

    You make a valid point that BlackBerry's situation isn't ideal, and my biggest fear is that they will kill support for BlackBerry 10, and become "just another Android device manufacturer", as if we don't have enough of them. Guess I'll have to jump back on the iPhone bandwagon should this happen, as much as I hate Apple.
    Right now I'm on Z30STA100-6/10.3.2.2789 but I don't think this is an issue since it's been working since day 1 (10.2). As far as a ReplayGain software is concerned, I do use MP3Gain, which changes the volume of the track, some would argue it's not really "lossless", but it doesn't matter since most of the time I keep a lossless copy, FLAC that is, of my MP3 collection.
    10-04-15 08:37 PM
  11. dangerousfen's Avatar
    Don't be a scrooge, 4 isn't a lot to shell out for Neutron. It's a brilliant music player and once purchased, it's yours for good on any device.

    "Z30 STA100-2 UK" 10.3.2.2474 Get's a Ten from Fen.
    10-05-15 02:37 AM
  12. Someone7272's Avatar
    Right now I'm on Z30STA100-6/10.3.2.2789 but I don't think this is an issue since it's been working since day 1 (10.2). As far as a ReplayGain software is concerned, I do use MP3Gain, which changes the volume of the track, some would argue it's not really "lossless", but it doesn't matter since most of the time I keep a lossless copy, FLAC that is, of my MP3 collection.
    Interesting. I have noticed that FLAC files are not as severely affected by the problem as M4A files are, not sure if this is a coincidence or if FLAC files are just more controlled when it comes to the "loudness war". My music collection consists exclusively FLAC and M4A files, all my previous MP3 files have gradually been replaced by higher quality FLAC or M4A files. I refuse to support the MP3 format, because to me, it sounds poor quality, even at 320kbps. But out of interest, does BlackBerry 10 support ReplayGain when it's used in MP3 files?

    Don't be a scrooge, 4 isn't a lot to shell out for Neutron. It's a brilliant music player and once purchased, it's yours for good on any device.
    I have already stated my reasons (other than cost) as to why I do not wish to use Neutron Music Player.

    (I checked out Neutron Music Player but it's paid software, isn't optimized for battery life, and at 4 just for ReplayGain functionality (which should be built into the OS music player!), tell me I'm not being unreasonable? Additionally, I am not a fan of its UI, and would much rather use the built-in music player.)
    10-10-15 02:19 PM
  13. Nick Spagnolo's Avatar
    Use Neutron player

    Z10
    10-10-15 02:32 PM
  14. Someone7272's Avatar
    Use Neutron player
    I have already stated my reasons (other than cost) as to why I do not wish to use Neutron Music Player.
    10-10-15 02:37 PM
  15. anon(1723145)'s Avatar
    I have already stated my reasons (other than cost) as to why I do not wish to use Neutron Music Player.
    Bashing the native BlackBerry music player is old hat in here (and well deserved). Don't be unreasonable and buy the Neutron app. It will recognize your replay settings and take your BlackBerry music experience to the next level.


    ClassicSQC100-3/10.3.2.840
    10-10-15 02:56 PM
  16. Someone7272's Avatar
    Bashing the native BlackBerry music player is old hat in here (and well deserved). Don't be unreasonable and buy the Neutron app. It will recognize your replay settings and take your BlackBerry music experience to the next level.
    I was not bashing it. The old BlackBerry 7 music player was awesome, and didn't have the problem mentioned at the top of this topic. The BlackBerry 10 music player would be perfect if only it could recognize ReplayGain levels. The purpose of this topic was to find out whether there's a hidden setting to force the built-in music player to recognize ReplayGain levels or whether there's a hidden preamp level which I can use to drive the volumes up or down.
    (I checked out Neutron Music Player but it's paid software, isn't optimized for battery life, and at 4 just for ReplayGain functionality (which should be built into the OS music player!), tell me I'm not being unreasonable? Additionally, I am not a fan of its UI, and would much rather use the built-in music player.)
    I still wouldn't get Neutron Music Player, even if it was FREE. I'd rather continue using my old BlackBerry 7 Curve 9360 solely for music than use Neutron Music Player.
    10-10-15 03:01 PM
  17. anon(1723145)'s Avatar
    I was not bashing it. The old BlackBerry 7 music player was awesome, and didn't have the problem mentioned at the top of this topic. The BlackBerry 10 music player would be perfect if only it could recognize ReplayGain levels. The purpose of this topic was to find out whether there's a hidden setting to force the built-in music player to recognize ReplayGain levels or whether there's a hidden preamp level which I can use to drive the volumes up or down.

    I still wouldn't get Neutron Music Player, even if it was FREE. I'd rather continue using my old BlackBerry 7 Curve 9360 solely for music than use Neutron Music Player.
    Well there's no hidden setting to make the BlackBerry 10 music player recognize RG, and if you really dislike Neutron THAT MUCH then I think you should stick with your Curve for music. But to complain that much when there's a rea$onably priced fix out there is just whining to me.

    ClassicSQC100-3/10.3.2.840
    10-10-15 05:48 PM
  18. dangerousfen's Avatar
    Well there's no hidden setting to make the BlackBerry 10 music player recognize RG, and if you really dislike Neutron THAT MUCH then I think you should stick with your Curve for music. But to complain that much when there's a rea$onably priced fix out there is just whining to me.

    ClassicSQC100-3/10.3.2.840
    +1000

    "Z30 STA100-2 UK" 10.3.2.2474 Get's a Ten from Fen.
    10-10-15 06:14 PM
  19. Someone7272's Avatar
    Well there's no hidden setting to make the BlackBerry 10 music player recognize RG, and if you really dislike Neutron THAT MUCH then I think you should stick with your Curve for music. But to complain that much when there's a rea$onably priced fix out there is just whining to me.
    It appears that you do not understand the difference between whining to you and posting a topic for support and asking a question. If you're going to make things personal, please leave this topic and do not post again.

    The point I'm trying to make (which you obviously haven't understood) is that this functionality should be built-in, as it is on iPhone, BlackBerry 7, Windows, Android etc. I should not have to rely on a third party app for this. If you can't understand that, kindly don't post back.

    Thanks.

    God, people like you are one of the reasons I avoid iPhone/iPod touch forums, but you're just as bad as them.

    Let me guess, you're now going to proceed to flame me based on post count?
    10-11-15 02:34 PM
  20. BCITMike's Avatar
    It appears that you do not understand the difference between whining to you and posting a topic for support and asking a question. If you're going to make things personal, please leave this topic and do not post again.

    The point I'm trying to make (which you obviously haven't understood) is that this functionality should be built-in, as it is on iPhone, BlackBerry 7, Windows, Android etc. I should not have to rely on a third party app for this. If you can't understand that, kindly don't post back.

    Thanks.

    God, people like you are one of the reasons I avoid iPhone/iPod touch forums, but you're just as bad as them.

    Let me guess, you're now going to proceed to flame me based on post count?
    What is the very last thing you said in your OP?

    People ARE telling you that you're being unreasonable.

    Imo, I wouldn't expect it to be baked in, I've never heard of it before and I have no distortion or clipping issues using built in. So BlackBerry licensing such feature adds cost and takes away from third party app system.

    Posted via CB10
    10-11-15 03:47 PM
  21. Someone7272's Avatar
    What is the very last thing you said in your OP?

    People ARE telling you that you're being unreasonable.
    In my OP, at the end I gave my reasons as to why I don't wish to use a third party app. But it seems that the majority of people didn't bother reading that, so thank you for actually reading that. It's not that I'm being unreasonable, but instead of just saying "I don't want to use this third party app!" I've given the reasons why I don't want to, yet people still think I'm being unreasonable. Guess you can't win.
    Imo, I wouldn't expect it to be baked in, I've never heard of it before and I have no distortion or clipping issues using built in.
    Activate the EQ and choose "Bass Boost" and I guarantee that your music will become an awful mess of clipped and distorted audio.

    Most of this ReplayGain kinda thing happens under the hood. If the RG tags are present in an audio file, then the player should adjust the gains accordingly. If not, then play at full volume. This would solve the clipped audio problem I'm having. However...
    So BlackBerry licensing such feature adds cost and takes away from third party app system.
    There is no cost in licensing ReplayGain as far as I know.
    10-11-15 03:55 PM
  22. anon(1723145)'s Avatar
    It appears that you do not understand the difference between whining to you and posting a topic for support and asking a question. If you're going to make things personal, please leave this topic and do not post again.

    The point I'm trying to make (which you obviously haven't understood) is that this functionality should be built-in, as it is on iPhone, BlackBerry 7, Windows, Android etc. I should not have to rely on a third party app for this. If you can't understand that, kindly don't post back.

    Thanks.

    God, people like you are one of the reasons I avoid iPhone/iPod touch forums, but you're just as bad as them.

    Let me guess, you're now going to proceed to flame me based on post count?
    I didn't mean to make it personal, if you took it that way... Oh well...

    The bottom line is replay gain is NOT built into the BlackBerry music player. Weather or not it should be is a matter of opinion. You've been presented with a fix and have chosen not to use it. Did you really think there was some hidden setting that would give you RG when you started this thread? I doubt it. You wanted to vent your frustrations with the player and take some useless stand against Nuetron.
    Still NO ReplayGain support on the BlackBerry 10 built-in music player?!-img_20151012_113521_edit.png

    ClassicSQC100-3/10.3.2.840
    Last edited by NCA510; 10-12-15 at 04:00 PM.
    10-12-15 02:45 PM
  23. Someone7272's Avatar
    I didn't mean to make it personal, if you took it that way... Oh well...

    The bottom line is replay gain is NOT built into the BlackBerry music player. Weather or not it should be is a matter of opinion. You've been presented with a fix and have chosen not to use it. Did you really think there was some hidden setting that would give you RG when you started this thread? I doubt it. You wanted to vent your frustrations with the player and take some useless stand against Nuetron.
    Sorry. No dramas.

    It's more a taste of personal preference. Perhaps if it was more like 0.99 or 1.99 at the most, I would consider it.
    There's just too many things that are not supported in Neutron Player which is kinda a dealbreaker for me. The lack of support for pause/play and previous/next song on the volume buttons are one of them. Obviously, also this software has no consideration for battery life, and although I carry two batteries, it's still sucking juice. "Active frame" not supported, and no ability to pause or skip songs from the volume bar, like in the built-in player. Finally, can you skin the music player to make it look exactly like the built-in player from 10.2.1? I loved that interface.

    I just think Neutron has a lot to do before I can consider it a worthy contender.
    10-13-15 07:01 PM
  24. dangerousfen's Avatar
    Sorry. No dramas.

    It's more a taste of personal preference. Perhaps if it was more like 0.99 or 1.99 at the most, I would consider it.
    There's just too many things that are not supported in Neutron Player which is kinda a dealbreaker for me. The lack of support for pause/play and previous/next song on the volume buttons are one of them. Obviously, also this software has no consideration for battery life, and although I carry two batteries, it's still sucking juice. "Active frame" not supported, and no ability to pause or skip songs from the volume bar, like in the built-in player. Finally, can you skin the music player to make it look exactly like the built-in player from 10.2.1? I loved that interface.

    I just think Neutron has a lot to do before I can consider it a worthy contender.
    All you do is complain about trivialities with Neutron. What about all the additional fantastic features this app offers.

    "Z30 STA100-2 UK" 10.3.2.2474 Get's a Ten from Fen.
    10-13-15 07:26 PM
  25. Someone7272's Avatar
    All you do is complain about trivialities with Neutron. What about all the additional fantastic features this app offers.
    Yes, all the fantastic features are great, but if it can't do absolutely everything the built-in player can, then it's a dealbreaker for me.
    10-13-15 07:30 PM
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