01-14-18 02:24 PM
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  1. Invictus0's Avatar
    They only care about servicing their customers and it's obvious that doesn't include end users.
    Can't have one without the other. I doubt BB Android customers will stick around if there aren't enough end users.
    01-11-18 05:55 PM
  2. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Can't have one without the other. I doubt BB Android customers will stick around if there aren't enough end users.
    I agree. I just don't believe that licensing revenue is just from BBMo/TCL and the other phone hardware agreements.

    Estimates for KEYone sales are 170,000. Round up to 200,000 and $20 per device. That's $4 million annual. That number doesn't seem very big in a company like BB even now.
    01-11-18 07:42 PM
  3. Invictus0's Avatar
    I agree. I just don't believe that licensing revenue is just from BBMo/TCL and the other phone hardware agreements.

    Estimates for KEYone sales are 170,000. Round up to 200,000 and $20 per device. That's $4 million annual. That number doesn't seem very big in a company like BB even now.
    Perhaps, but if BlackBerry branded devices start moving a few million units a year again (even something comparable to BB10 era shipments) that figure becomes far more substantial.
    01-11-18 10:51 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    I agree. I just don't believe that licensing revenue is just from BBMo/TCL and the other phone hardware agreements.

    Estimates for KEYone sales are 170,000. Round up to 200,000 and $20 per device. That's $4 million annual. That number doesn't seem very big in a company like BB even now.
    That estimate, if you believe it, was 170,000 in the last QUARTER.
    01-11-18 11:02 PM
  5. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    That estimate, if you believe it, was 170,000 in the last QUARTER.
    I went back and read that. I don't believe that estimate. But, even that only gives us $16 million per year. Not that I wouldnt enjoy your $16 million, but for BB, that number isn't as meaningful on annualized basis. That's partly why I just don't think consumer brand management really matter to BB. That seems to be more of a BBMo problem.

    I wouldn't be surprised if company went back to original moniker, RIM, because of the auto business. At this point, the RIM brand has less baggage.
    01-12-18 07:12 AM
  6. DonHB's Avatar
    They only care about servicing their customers and it's obvious that doesn't include end users.
    Can't have one without the other. I doubt BB Android customers will stick around if there aren't enough end users.
    I would think that their existing customers are looking critically at how BlackBerry is treating "end-users" as their product is approaching EoL. It can reflect poorly on a company that is trying to sell security as a product and suggests what it considers support does not include security.
    CrackPriv likes this.
    01-13-18 02:04 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    I would think that their existing customers are looking critically at how BlackBerry is treating "end-users" as their product is approaching EoL. It can reflect poorly on a company that is trying to sell security as a product and suggests what it considers support does not include security.
    They're not going to spend millions on a dwindling BB10 user base. Even if you factor in "reputation" (which I don't because there isn't a single Radar, corporate UEM, or Auto customer who could care less), there is no ROI that could possibly justify that kind of expenditure.
    01-13-18 02:10 PM
  8. Invictus0's Avatar
    I would think that their existing customers are looking critically at how BlackBerry is treating "end-users" as their product is approaching EoL. It can reflect poorly on a company that is trying to sell security as a product and suggests what it considers support does not include security.
    Security should always be considered on a case by case basis and not solely on a brand. For devices BlackBerry had trouble dealing with customer demands and expectations even when times were good, unless that's also an issue with their other services I doubt it'll reflect too badly.

    For BB Android I do agree, the ~10 million or so active BlackBerry users should be the easiest sale for licensees but if they feel "burned" they'll probably look elsewhere. Here's hoping the trade up program is worthwhile.
    01-13-18 02:26 PM
  9. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I would think that their existing customers are looking critically at how BlackBerry is treating "end-users" as their product is approaching EoL. It can reflect poorly on a company that is trying to sell security as a product and suggests what it considers support does not include security.
    Regarding supporting even BBAndroid, if BBMo/TCL will pay BB, I'm certain BB will do any updates for anything BBMo/TCL pays for. BBMo/TCL has more interest with brand than BB.

    Wouldn't surprise me if BB drops the name at corporate level and goes back to RIM or something else.

    BB isn't pitching security to consumers in Auto, they're pitching Auto executives that most likely haven't used a BB phone in years.
    01-13-18 02:30 PM
  10. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    BB10 phones are vulnerable and won't be patched. I would NOT use any secure credentials in the BlackBerry browser at this point. That means not logging on to websites if I would seriously mind my credentials being stolen. No financial sites, Web mail, etc. But even that does not eliminate risk.

    I still use my BB10 phones for email but I will be reloading the OS in case any malware exists and no longer using the browser at all, which includes not clicking on links in email, even those from legitimate Web sites.

    If there is a way to prevent Javascript from running in the browser, I would do that.

    The ridiculous thing is that, even just as an email appliance I prefer my BB10 phones to my KEYone as a daily driver, though I will keep the KEYone close by for Web browsing!

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    01-13-18 02:51 PM
  11. conite's Avatar

    the ~10 million or so active BlackBerry users should be the easiest sale for licensees but if they feel "burned" they'll probably look elsewhere. Here's hoping the trade up program is worthwhile.
    You mean the 1-3 million (generous) BBOS/BB10 users.
    01-13-18 03:04 PM
  12. DonHB's Avatar
    They're not going to spend millions on a dwindling BB10 user base. Even if you factor in "reputation" (which I don't because there isn't a single Radar, corporate UEM, or Auto customer who could care less), there is no ROI that could possibly justify that kind of expenditure.
    I was also thinking of the other stuff built upon Neutrino and potential customers that are considering using QNX's products. I would be concerned as a potential customer that the company's response to vulnerabilities are not published in the usual trade press, unless I know from experience that the company is not proactive in such dealings.
    01-13-18 03:44 PM
  13. conite's Avatar
    I was also thinking of the other stuff built upon Neutrino and potential customers that are considering using QNX's products. I would be concerned as a potential customer that the company's response to vulnerabilities are not published in the usual trade press.
    Not a chance.

    Nobody cares what BlackBerry does or doesn't do on an essentially EOL product.

    Totally unrelated businesses.

    The "trade press" hasn't had an article about BB10 in years.

    In the meantime, BlackBerry will inform its QNX customers directly.
    Last edited by conite; 01-13-18 at 03:59 PM.
    01-13-18 03:46 PM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Not a chance.

    Nobody cares what BlackBerry does or doesn't do on an essentially EOL product.

    Totally unrelated businesses.

    The "trade press" hasn't had an article about BB10 in years.
    I think people become confused because they think of themselves as "BB10 customers" because they are owners of BB10 phones. But I'm pretty sure that when BlackBerry says it's supporting BB10 through 2019, it's referring to support for customers still under contract for services that work with BB10.

    BlackBerry would correctly see most owners of BB10 phones as "former customers," who should not expect support for free.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    01-13-18 03:55 PM
  15. Invictus0's Avatar
    You mean the 1-3 million (generous) BBOS/BB10 users.
    Sure, insert whichever number you'd like, active BlackBerry users (across BBOS, BB10, and BB Android) would probably be a licensee's easiest sell as they're active users of BlackBerry devices and (especially at this point) likely fans of the brand.
    01-13-18 04:35 PM
  16. cyberdoggie's Avatar
    They're not going to spend millions on a dwindling BB10 user base. Even if you factor in "reputation" (which I don't because there isn't a single Radar, corporate UEM, or Auto customer who could care less), there is no ROI that could possibly justify that kind of expenditure.

    From a pure business perspective you are probably right. But it shows complete disdain towards all those faithful (former) customers who have supported BlackBerry through the years. Fixing a critical issue does not seem to be an unreasonable gesture to me. This is not the same as further development or adding new features. Call it a limited form of corporate responsibility towards (former) customers.
    01-14-18 04:08 AM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    From a pure business perspective you are probably right. But it shows complete disdain towards all those faithful (former) customers who have supported BlackBerry through the years. Fixing a critical issue does not seem to be an unreasonable gesture to me. This is not the same as further development or adding new features. Call it a limited form of corporate responsibility towards (former) customers.
    Unfortunately, companies have an unlimited form of corporate responsibility called a fiduciary duty to shareholders with the business assets of BB. Management specifically has a duty not to waste money. They've more than met their responsibility regarding BB10 especially regarding free updates.
    01-14-18 04:59 AM
  18. cyberdoggie's Avatar
    They've more than met their responsibility regarding BB10 especially regarding free updates.
    What did I miss?
    01-14-18 06:07 AM
  19. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    What did I miss?
    10.3.3 if you don't already have it.
    01-14-18 06:09 AM
  20. Invictus0's Avatar
    Unfortunately, companies have an unlimited form of corporate responsibility called a fiduciary duty to shareholders with the business assets of BB. Management specifically has a duty not to waste money. They've more than met their responsibility regarding BB10 especially regarding free updates.
    They actually do set aside funds for potential BB10 updates (pg 37),

    and an allocation of revenue relating to service obligations and
    unspecified future software upgrades associated with BlackBerry 10 devices.
    https://ca.blackberry.com/content/da...nformation.pdf

    That doesn't mean updates are guaranteed or will be timely of course. Realistically if you're not happy with the level of support it could be best to just move on. There's no point in stressing over a device that is meant to make your life less stressful.
    01-14-18 11:04 AM
  21. Emaderton3's Avatar
    They actually do set aside funds for potential BB10 updates (pg 37),



    https://ca.blackberry.com/content/da...nformation.pdf

    That doesn't mean updates are guaranteed or will be timely of course. Realistically if you're not happy with the level of support it could be best to just move on. There's no point in stressing over a device that is meant to make your life less stressful.
    Probably just for their corporate accounts.
    01-14-18 12:57 PM
  22. Invictus0's Avatar
    Probably just for their corporate accounts.
    That's probably the primary motivator for continued BB10 support at this point, the updates would likely be available for everyone though (at the very least through autoloaders).
    01-14-18 01:45 PM
  23. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Unfortunately, your HO isn't the same as BB's. "Support" seems to mean "we'll continue to pay the power and Internet bills to keep the BB servers running until 12/31/2019", after which BB World for sure will go down, and likely the other BB servers (BBM for BB10, BB ID, etc.) will also.

    The fix for Spectre is much, much more involved than the fix for Krack, yet BB hasn't even given any official update on a fix for Krack for BB10, which is several months old at this point. The writing is right there on the wall, you just have to read it.
    Not to mention that there are absolutely zero drivers to motivate a fix: 1) no known warranties or contractual obligations; 2) no regulatory obligations; and 3) no financial incentives. It would be irresponsible of BlackBerry to expend resources on an inconsequential project, no matter how badly some of us would like them to.
    01-14-18 02:18 PM
  24. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    They actually do set aside funds for potential BB10 updates (pg 37),



    https://ca.blackberry.com/content/da...nformation.pdf

    That doesn't mean updates are guaranteed or will be timely of course. Realistically if you're not happy with the level of support it could be best to just move on. There's no point in stressing over a device that is meant to make your life less stressful.
    IF it's true that they have deferred revenue being held against BB10 support projects, then they could actually bill that deferred revenue account for the work and generate revenue (though not cash) for the work. That revenue would go on the income statement and could add incrementally to current earnings.

    If they have any internal resources left to do the work, that could motivate a fix because it allow them to accelerate the recognition of that deferred revenue without negatively affecting cash flow.
    Invictus0, DrBoomBotz and DonHB like this.
    01-14-18 02:24 PM
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