01-27-18 07:42 PM
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  1. Invictus0's Avatar
    OK. Would you say it was mixed message at best from BlackBerry?

    Russia and which OEM's?
    Mostly OEM's from non Western markets (Intex, Jala, Inoi, etc). The point being, other operating systems were and still are being licensed by OEM's, BB10 differs from these by having a built in Android runtime which (as The Verge article above points out) would prevent OEM's from using it.
    01-17-18 07:19 PM
  2. DonHB's Avatar
    Google Play has to be installed separately, but does not have support for pay apps as does Cobolt's Solution. Also, not all implementations of Sailfish have Android support.

    Sailfish would create the same situation for the OEM's as BB10.
    Last edited by DonHB; 01-17-18 at 07:55 PM. Reason: Android is optional.
    01-17-18 07:40 PM
  3. Invictus0's Avatar
    Google Play has to be installed separately, but does not have support for pay apps as does Cobolt's Solution. Also, not all implementations of Sailfish have Android support.
    It's not about Google Play, it isn't even officially supported on BB10 or any non Google certified Android device. It's about Android itself.

    Sailfish would create the same situation for the OEM's as BB10.
    It isn't, some of the OEM's I mentioned also sell Android devices with Google Play pre-installed.
    01-17-18 08:02 PM
  4. DonHB's Avatar
    Google Play with the Sailfish UX? A device with the Sailfish UX could pass the Android certification? I wondered for a while if gestures could be directly mapped to the Android UI APIs.

    Or are you saying that the OEMs sell Android devices and Sailfish devices without Android?
    01-17-18 08:12 PM
  5. Invictus0's Avatar
    Google Play with the Sailfish UX? A device with the Sailfish UX could pass the Android certification?
    No, separate Android devices (Jala Accione, Intex Aqua Lions, etc) from the same OEM that have Google Play services pre-installed. As you mentioned, the Android runtime isn't preloaded on Sailfish devices so it wouldn't be an Android fork.
    01-17-18 08:18 PM
  6. Emaderton3's Avatar
    I still wouldn't bite on a new one with an updated runtime. Apps that were compatible before still failed, were ill formatted, and lagged because it was not full Android. The runtime was NEVER designed for what everyone ended up using it for. It was a tool for developers.
    01-17-18 08:23 PM
  7. markmall's Avatar
    So, your saying at least a million people need to buy. That wasn't the question.
    I would pay a lot of money, but I doubt many BB10 fans are left and reading this thread.
    01-18-18 12:31 AM
  8. JSmith422's Avatar
    Let's assume BlackBerry does make an autoloader for the Motion with the Browser and libraries updated and other fixes to the OS would any of you buy it? And for how much? This is really the ultimate bottom line question. An honest "yes" or "no" shouldn't cost the "never going to happen" camp their integrity.
    Yes, and we'd pay a lot for it.
    01-18-18 04:19 AM
  9. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    So, two of you would pay a lot for it? What's a "lot" ? An economically viable number? KEYone with BBAndroid is $500. So, realistically, you'll pay $2000 premium so then $2500 about right?
    01-18-18 05:09 AM
  10. eshropshire's Avatar
    Wow this thread keeps going on and on.

    Just for sanity check, does any one here actually think BlackBerry Limited cares about BB10. Or is this thread just fun banter about what if scenarios?
    01-18-18 03:11 PM
  11. JSmith422's Avatar
    So, two of you would pay a lot for it? What's a "lot" ? An economically viable number? KEYone with BBAndroid is $500. So, realistically, you'll pay $2000 premium so then $2500 about right?
    Depending on the feature set we might go that high. Certainly upwards of $1500 per device.
    01-18-18 03:14 PM
  12. JSmith422's Avatar
    Wow this thread keeps going on and on.

    Just for sanity check, does any one here actually think BlackBerry Limited cares about BB10. Or is this thread just fun banter about what if scenarios?
    Haha, we are under no delusions whatsoever. Bb10 seems to be quite dead at this point. However, I was happy to see blackberry (cough) continue "support" for another couple years. It was the ethical thing to do.
    DonHB likes this.
    01-18-18 03:17 PM
  13. markmall's Avatar
    Depending on the feature set we might go that high. Certainly upwards of $1500 per device.
    Same here. It is important for my business functioning. Blend is important. Syncing with Outlook without giving all my data to Google or Microsoft. Email functionality. Lots of reasons to pay that much.

    Posted via CB10
    DonHB likes this.
    01-18-18 03:33 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Depending on the feature set we might go that high. Certainly upwards of $1500 per device.
    Well then conservative estimate, if start up costs are same as Essential phone, $100 million, you need to sell about 75,000 to break even @$1500 per device. It's rumored that Essential has sold 60,000 @ $600 ASP. Since Essential is running Android, we know positively, it will cost more to use BB10 since NOTHING is off the shelf and if anyone is able to get more done with less on Android, it's the guy who sold Android to Google.

    Numbers are numbers. Forget the rest. Tell me how to overcome this problem of $300 million because after $100 million needed fell apart, $300 million was raised because it turned out $100 million wasn't enough. BTW, the Essential had ALL Major carrier support and buy-in joint marketing.

    Right now from everything I've read on the company research side, KEYone, has sold more devices than Essential phone.
    01-18-18 04:12 PM
  15. conite's Avatar
    Depending on the feature set we might go that high. Certainly upwards of $1500 per device.
    Except you're at least one order of magnitude off.
    01-18-18 04:13 PM
  16. Mecca EL's Avatar
    Then walk into the Waterloo office and ask for the agreement.

    Short of that, we use logic and common sense, and avail ourselves of the information that IS public.

    We have legal precedent with almost the identical situation at our disposal. It's as good as a smoking gun. Your weak counter-arguments hold no water against it.

    If it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck.....
    It could be a sheep! 🤔
    01-18-18 04:33 PM
  17. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    It could be a sheep!
    A sheep running Hypervisor?
    01-18-18 05:16 PM
  18. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    A sheep running Hypervisor?
    Five sheep team in a barn in the back of the farm.
    01-18-18 05:29 PM
  19. DonHB's Avatar
    Yes, and we'd pay a lot for it.
    Getting some answers now...
    01-18-18 06:01 PM
  20. DonHB's Avatar
    ...Numbers are numbers. Forget the rest. Tell me how to overcome this problem of $300 million because after $100 million needed fell apart, $300 million was raised because it turned out $100 million wasn't enough. BTW, the Essential had ALL Major carrier support and buy-in joint marketing.

    Right now from everything I've read on the company research side, KEYone, has sold more devices than Essential phone.
    What is not considered is duplicate work. QNX has a BSP for the Snapdragon 820A and QNX advertises modules that support the various wireless technologies. Meaning some form of drivers are available.

    Its the old question of compatibility between generations and models of the SoC and OS versions. Would this mean QA may (hopefully) outnumber developers? And what kind of support they are going to provide. As I said before, first round I would like to see an updated browser (and libraries for integration) and fixes for the OS.

    Initially, it should be about getting existing customers to move to 10.3.4 (or whatever it may be). Partly because of their expectations regarding support. What are the minimum features required for paying top dollar?
    01-18-18 06:18 PM
  21. DonHB's Avatar
    Except you're at least one order of magnitude off.
    Would you say with 7200+ people the BB10 operation was lean?
    01-18-18 06:57 PM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    What is not considered is duplicate work. QNX has a BSP for the Snapdragon 820A and QNX advertises modules that support the various wireless technologies. Meaning some form of drivers are available.

    Its the old question of compatibility between generations and models of the SoC and OS versions. Would this mean QA may (hopefully) outnumber developers? And what kind of support they are going to provide. As I said before, first round I would like to see an updated browser (and libraries for integration) and fixes for the OS.

    Initially, it should be about getting existing customers to move to 10.3.4 (or whatever it may be). Partly because of their expectations regarding support. What are the minimum features required for paying top dollar?
    Here's where things are today from VC/PE side. No one cares about BB10 from business model perspective, because, BB10 as company doesn't exist from a business perspective anymore. It's no different from a business perspective than Essential phone company was 18-24 months ago. I've read all types of back and forth on so many levels and been very polite or so I think.

    What does your reply have to do with anything regarding starting a new division around BB10 and hardware? The institutional managers that own BB allowed management to shut down, dismantle and sell-off everything that involved BB10 except for some dedicated paying contracts that are covering expenses to point it's cheaper than canceling and paying non-performance clause penalties. Don't bother with the nonsense about how do I know? Because if these didn't exist, it would all be shut down and you'd never hear about BB10 ever again. Same thing goes for BBOS, since only reason for announcing EOL, is the revenue is going from generating small profit to projected small losses.

    I outlined using Essential phone with simple idea. The founder of Android, years later, has left Google/Alphabet with the idea to do something with the OS that he sold to an empire 12 years ago. He sold that OS because Google had the deep pockets needed to do 12 years ago what you think BB10 could do now. 12 years later, the necessary resources are exponentially larger. I've said before, if BB owned Android instead of Andy, BB would have needed to sell Android to Google for the necessary economic resources to build the ecosystem to compete with IOS and WM back then.

    Essential is basically a company in the footprint of what you envision as BB could be or is. Founder comes back and takes on his previous employer and company he partially founded in direction with devices based on his OS. Very Steve Jobs or Bill Gates like. Because his previous company provides the same OS, his startup costs are substantially reduced. Essential started up with a $100 million proposal that failed and was restarted and funded with $300 million. Initial round to just open the doors and hire skeleton crew was $30 million.

    If Essential gets to next round, it will need additional money since phone#1 flopped compared to even KEYone. That means you need $300 million and up to date OS already developed and supported ecosystem like Android just to fail like BB10 did the first time five years ago. You can't sell your business idea to any consortium because it fails on EVERY level just like the last time. You want proof about the money required, it's there within BB10 and BB records 5-6 years ago. It's there again with Essential now on stripped down scale courtesy of Google/Android.

    Theoretical ideas remain theoretical when they aren't economically viable. Steve Jobs himself couldn't sell your model to Apple's BOD. He sold his model destroy what he considered the small thinking of BB founders at time. Google jumped on Android when it saw the chance to be the next Microsoft.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    01-18-18 07:23 PM
  23. conite's Avatar
    Would you say with 7200+ people the BB10 operation was lean?
    I would imagine they didn't have extra people sitting around playing solitaire.
    01-18-18 07:52 PM
  24. eshropshire's Avatar
    Haha, we are under no delusions whatsoever. Bb10 seems to be quite dead at this point. However, I was happy to see blackberry (cough) continue "support" for another couple years. It was the ethical thing to do.
    My guess is that is the EOL for the BB10 & BB0S services equals the support lifecycle of the servers running the services. I am pretty sure the day after the services end the HW will be sent to recycle.

    Have fun with the thread. The thread was funny at one point. I truly hope the posts in here are just for fun and no one actually takes anything in this thread as a serious idea.
    pdr733 likes this.
    01-18-18 10:03 PM
  25. DonHB's Avatar
    Theoretical ideas remain theoretical when they aren't economically viable. Steve Jobs himself couldn't sell your model to Apple's BOD. He sold his model destroy what he considered the small thinking of BB founders at time. Google jumped on Android when it saw the chance to be the next Microsoft.
    The difference is that Essential is paying for hardware inventory while this theoretical idea is purely software and relies on using licensees' hardware. Of course there have been arguments as to why TCL would agree. There is also the question of why not? We don't know much about the terms of BlackBerry's Android licenses either.

    How much of the $300 million is funding inventory? Do you have any idea?

    This idea is NOT a DTEK redux.
    01-18-18 10:41 PM
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