01-27-18 07:42 PM
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  1. DonHB's Avatar
    Omg.

    If anything, Google has been tightening its grip on Android over the last few years.
    But you (and others) don't know what is in BlackBerry's license. So, you (and others) are construing what is likely true, but could be false. Or in one word conjecture.
    01-17-18 08:17 AM
  2. conite's Avatar
    But you don't know what is in BlackBerry's license. So, you (and others) are construing what is likely true, but could be false.
    Then walk into the Waterloo office and ask for the agreement.

    Short of that, we use logic and common sense, and avail ourselves of the information that IS public.

    We have legal precedent with almost the identical situation at our disposal. It's as good as a smoking gun. Your weak counter-arguments hold no water against it.

    If it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck.....
    Last edited by conite; 01-17-18 at 08:47 AM.
    01-17-18 08:19 AM
  3. glwerry's Avatar
    But you (and others) don't know what is in BlackBerry's license. So, you (and others) are construing what is likely true, but could be false. Or in one word conjecture.
    Similar conjecture to the project plan that we see coming from you - "this family of processors is very compatible ... don't need to move it to 64 bit ...." no evidence presented to back up those statements.
    01-17-18 08:40 AM
  4. thurask's Avatar
    But you (and others) don't know what is in BlackBerry's license. So, you (and others) are construing what is likely true, but could be false. Or in one word conjecture.


    You don't know the details about the minutiae of the OHA or BlackBerry's licensing agreement or whatever either, but you seem convinced that duct tape, chicken wire, one car development platform and your galaxy brain are enough to turn things around. The difference is what the arguments are based on; historical trends and inference on the one hand, and wishful thinking and a thick cloud of delusion on the other.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    01-17-18 08:47 AM
  5. kvndoom's Avatar
    If it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck.....
    ...it's a penguin?
    01-17-18 08:49 AM
  6. conite's Avatar
    ...it's a penguin?
    That seems to be the prevailing logic.
    01-17-18 08:52 AM
  7. Soulstream's Avatar
    But you (and others) don't know what is in BlackBerry's license. So, you (and others) are construing what is likely true, but could be false. Or in one word conjecture.
    The crown jewel of the Android ecosystem is not Android itself, but the Google Play Store and that is a closed source and owned entirely by Google.

    Considering that nobody in the western markets sells both Google Android devices and non google devices with android code at the same time, it's safe to say that they can't do that. Google Play is just too important of a thing to lose for OEMs to try to break the license.
    pdr733 likes this.
    01-17-18 08:57 AM
  8. Emaderton3's Avatar
    The crown jewel of the Android ecosystem is not Android itself, but the Google Play Store and that is a closed source and owned entirely by Google.

    Considering that nobody in the western markets sells both Google Android devices and non google devices with android code at the same time, it's safe to say that they can't do that. Google Play is just too important of a thing to lose for OEMs to try to break the license.
    Exactly. Look at Amazon.
    01-17-18 09:13 AM
  9. DonHB's Avatar
    Similar conjecture to the project plan that we see coming from you - "this family of processors is very compatible ... don't need to move it to 64 bit ...." no evidence presented to back up those statements.
    Actually, I was asking how compatible they are. I had hoped someone here that actually knows would provide sufficient information because QNX has a BSP for the 820A.
    01-17-18 09:56 AM
  10. DonHB's Avatar
    The crown jewel of the Android ecosystem is not Android itself, but the Google Play Store and that is a closed source and owned entirely by Google.

    Considering that nobody in the western markets sells both Google Android devices and non google devices with android code at the same time, it's safe to say that they can't do that. Google Play is just too important of a thing to lose for OEMs to try to break the license.
    You reminded me that Microsoft did just that.

    The idea here is that BB10 would be loaded over Android by the customer or seller of the device thereby avoiding investing in inventory on a relatively low (initially) demand product. The question of who owns the keys to Root of Trust is an issue. If it is the manufacture then that alone could reduce the feasibility of this idea.
    Last edited by DonHB; 01-17-18 at 10:31 AM.
    01-17-18 10:00 AM
  11. markmall's Avatar
    Then walk into the Waterloo office and ask for the agreement.

    Short of that, we use logic and common sense, and avail ourselves of the information that IS public.

    We have legal precedent with almost the identical situation at our disposal. It's as good as a smoking gun. Your weak counter-arguments hold no water against it.

    If it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck.....
    It sounds like we don't know. We also don't know if Google would release BlackBerry from such a license commitment for antitrust reasons to avoid bad appearances. BlackBerry is not a real threat.

    Posted via CB10
    01-17-18 12:09 PM
  12. markmall's Avatar

    Considering that nobody in the western markets sells both Google Android devices and non google devices with android code at the same time, it's safe to say that they can't do that. Google Play is just too important of a thing to lose for OEMs to try to break the license.
    Or it's a sign that Google has a monopoly with Apple. The only conceivable company that could do this is BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    DonHB likes this.
    01-17-18 12:12 PM
  13. conite's Avatar
    It sounds like we don't know. We also don't know if Google would release BlackBerry from such a license commitment for antitrust reasons to avoid bad appearances. BlackBerry is not a real threat.

    Posted via CB10
    Everything we DO know points to the obvious.

    Why would Google do such a thing? How would releasing lowly BlackBerry make any dent in antitrust proceedings? Why would BlackBerry even care to ask?

    At a certain point you just have to admit your position is completely untenable.

    As Chandler would say, "can BlackBerry BE any less interested in pursuing anything related to BB10?".
    pdr733 likes this.
    01-17-18 12:13 PM
  14. pdr733's Avatar
    It sounds like we don't know. We also don't know if Google would release BlackBerry from such a license commitment for antitrust reasons to avoid bad appearances. BlackBerry is not a real threat.

    Posted via CB10
    I think that the legal feasibility is not relevant any more. What is relevant that BlackBerry doesn`t WANT and doesn`t NEED that product (see their focus on different solutions and withdrawal from the device market), therefore it is not going to happen (even if it were feasible legally, technologically or otherwise).
    01-17-18 12:16 PM
  15. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Or it's a sign that Google has a monopoly with Apple. The only conceivable company that could do this is BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    Perhaps Microsoft but seriously, OS duopoly has been around for three decades. It's already withstood courtroom battles.

    Next!!!!!
    pdr733 likes this.
    01-17-18 12:17 PM
  16. DonHB's Avatar
    I think that the legal feasibility is not relevant any more. What is relevant that BlackBerry doesn`t WANT and doesn`t NEED that product (see their focus on different solutions and withdrawal from the device market), therefore it is not going to happen (even if it were feasible legally, technologically or otherwise).
    Let's assume BlackBerry does make an autoloader for the Motion with the Browser and libraries updated and other fixes to the OS would any of you buy it? And for how much? This is really the ultimate bottom line question. An honest "yes" or "no" shouldn't cost the "never going to happen" camp their integrity.
    Last edited by DonHB; 01-17-18 at 01:53 PM.
    01-17-18 01:43 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    Let's assume BlackBerry does make an autoloader would any of you buy it?
    How much?

    A hundred million dollars divided by 1,000 people, would be about $100,000 each.

    So, no.
    01-17-18 01:50 PM
  18. DonHB's Avatar
    How much?

    A hundred million dollars divided by 1,000 people, would be about $100,000 each.

    So, no.
    So, your saying at least a million people need to buy. That wasn't the question.
    01-17-18 01:55 PM
  19. conite's Avatar
    So, your saying at least a million people need to buy. That wasn't the question.
    The question is meaningless without a price.

    There are only a million or so BB10 users left, so I don't think you'll get 100% buy-in at $100 each.

    And that's just cost. Who pays for ongoing support, and where is the profit?
    01-17-18 01:57 PM
  20. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Let's assume BlackBerry does make an autoloader for the Motion with the Browser and libraries updated and other fixes to the OS would any of you buy it? And for how much? This is really the ultimate bottom line question. An honest "yes" or "no" shouldn't cost the "never going to happen" camp their integrity.
    No, the lack of apps is killer.
    01-17-18 02:05 PM
  21. DonHB's Avatar
    The question is meaningless without a price.

    There are only a million or so BB10 users left, so I don't think you'll get 100% buy-in at $100 each.

    And that's just cost. Who pays for ongoing support, and where is the profit?
    I would not have had to guess your answer. I am waiting for others.
    01-17-18 02:08 PM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I would not have had to guess your answer. I am waiting for others.
    The lack of replies shows you the lack of interest. Perhaps you should market better and more. I hear that all BB10 needed was more and better marketing.
    glwerry, DrBoomBotz and ppeters914 like this.
    01-17-18 02:10 PM
  23. JSmith422's Avatar
    Then walk into the Waterloo office and ask for the agreement.

    Short of that, we use logic and common sense, and avail ourselves of the information that IS public.

    We have legal precedent with almost the identical situation at our disposal. It's as good as a smoking gun. Your weak counter-arguments hold no water against it.

    If it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck.....
    I respectfully disagree. Unless something is factual and supported by direct evidence, then it's merely an opinion and should be stated as such.

    If you haven't reviewed Blackberry's license personally, then your statements are by definition conjecture.

    Stating them as anything more than personal opinion is just misleading.

    Secondly, drawing a conclusion from a separate situation is certainly not a "smoking gun" or "legal precedent" as you state, because Blackberry has its own licensing agreement and terms. Nobody here knows what those terms are. We're all guessing. A conclusion simply cannot be drawn based on those facts. One can speculate, (as markmall has done in his own opinion), but there is no evidence to support a conclusion.
    01-17-18 02:16 PM
  24. DonHB's Avatar
    The lack of replies shows you the lack of interest. Perhaps you should market better and more. I hear that all BB10 needed was more and better marketing.
    A segue.
    01-17-18 02:18 PM
  25. conite's Avatar
    I respectfully disagree. Unless something is factual and supported by direct evidence, then it's merely an opinion and should be stated as such.

    If you haven't reviewed Blackberry's license personally, then your statements are by definition conjecture.

    Stating them as anything more than personal opinion is just misleading.

    Secondly, drawing a conclusion from a separate situation is certainly not a "smoking gun" or "legal precedent" as you state, because Blackberry has its own licensing agreement and terms. Nobody here knows what those terms are. We're all guessing. A conclusion simply cannot be drawn based on those facts. One can speculate, (as markmall has done in his own opinion), but there is no evidence to support a conclusion.
    We are discussing whether a company can have a Google-compliant product and a forked product at the same time. The legal precedent is pretty clear.

    The last company that tried to circumvent it got hammered. And Google has become increasingly militant against fragmentation since then.

    Your presumptive suggestion that BlackBerry somehow has a "better deal" than Acer is absurd.
    pdr733 likes this.
    01-17-18 02:20 PM
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