07-09-13 10:28 PM
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  1. pappymappylappy's Avatar
    Used blackberry for as long as I could remember. Finally upgraded today to the Q10. I realize some apps may not work in newer OSes, but it looks like they revamped everything to the point there is no backward compatability.

    Major fail here IMO and I'm kinda angry. Is it so bad for BB OS developers to quickly add some kind of emulator that works for old java programs so people can continue to use old programs? I mean their selection here is highly limited. And with blackberry as a company on the brink of bankrupcy and their stock taking a nose dive, not many developers are making refresh apps for the new OS. Major major fail.

    So is there really no way to get old apps to work on the new OSes? I read up on the .jar .jad and now it uses .bar thing. Just wow. I think they should have made backward compatability. This is basic new OS upgrade due dilligence 101. Ask microsoft. They always make sure new OSes can at least support last generation of software. I'm disappointed. </rants>
    07-03-13 11:57 PM
  2. habs_fan's Avatar
    How is BlackBerry on the brink of bankruptcy with no debt and tons of cash. And they made money last quarter

    Posted via CB10
    dietertong and Pegon_Fighter like this.
    07-03-13 11:59 PM
  3. pappymappylappy's Avatar
    How is BlackBerry on the brink of bankruptcy with no debt and tons of cash. And they made money last quarter

    Posted via CB10
    Thats not what wallstreet thinks. Anyway, its a debate for some other time I guess. Im in no position to judge, just regurgitating what Im told.
    07-04-13 12:00 AM
  4. Kris Simundson's Avatar
    you can't have backwards compatibility when you create a new OS, just like how the new game consoles don't have backwards compatibility.
    web99, redsaph, DrBit2011 and 10 others like this.
    07-04-13 12:02 AM
  5. diegonei's Avatar
    Here is an easy to understand example.

    BBOS is to W95 as to BB10 is to Mack OS Mountain Lion. You get 0 compatibility because they are radically different softwares. It' not like OS5 to OS7 where some apps would work and some wouldn't.

    BBOS is Java-Based. BB10 is QNX based (I won't go into the lenghtly details on how different they are - suffice to say one can run cellphones and credit card machines while the other can be trusted by NASA to run it's stuff).

    So yeah, it's not nice that the old collection of apps won't work. But you can see why it doesn't.

    And welcome to the forums...

    EDIT: I love the MS comment. Tell me again how they needed a XP emulator running on Windows7...
    numestor likes this.
    07-04-13 12:03 AM
  6. pappymappylappy's Avatar
    Not always. Windows 7 supported some XP apps, etc. Its not impossible. Plus, its not like they cant reasonably come up with a solution to the problem. If there was somehow a java emulator or something or a virtual machine then it can run old programs. They just dont have it. They made a new platform. New rules, and they're basically telling app developers to go suck it up and develop a new app from the ground up, or go stick it. Except they are not really in much of a bargaining power because many people are dropping the development of BB apps now since blackberry, at leat in the eyes of wallstreet, is destined to fail. The beauty of java was you can develop the app once and it works on most platforms.

    Ultimately, consumer suffers is all Im saying. Im just angry my apps are not working. I might even go back to my old phone. This phone I can sell on Ebay since I got it cheaper from signing a contract that I wanted to renew anyway. But I think major fail here. I hope they come up with a solution fast to make some backward compatibility a possibility.
    Carterbits and sonic_reducer like this.
    07-04-13 12:05 AM
  7. pappymappylappy's Avatar
    Here is an easy to understand example.

    BBOS is to W95 as to BB10 is to Mack OS Mountain Lion. You get 0 compatibility because they are radically different softwares. It' not like OS5 to OS7 where some apps would work and some wouldn't.

    BBOS is Java-Based. BB10 is QNX based (I won't go into the lenghtly details on how different they are - suffice to say one can run cellphones and credit card machines while the other can be trusted by NASA to run it's stuff).

    So yeah, it's not nice that the old collection of apps won't work. But you can see why it doesn't.

    And welcome to the forums...

    EDIT: I love the MS comment. Tell me again how they needed a XP emulator running on Windows7...
    I get it is a new OS and runs on like a different kernal so to speak. It doesnt matter. They could have found a solution to the problem and implimented it. For example, some kind of emulator or java virtual machine host on the new OS can be added. I dont know. I cant say its impossible.

    Wallstreet has BBRY pegged as doomed to fail. The Z10 isnt doing that great. Q10 I hope does better. But some app developers are not putting app development for BB10 very high in their priority list, when most of their clients are iphone or android users. Also, since its a new platform, youre basically asking them to redo all the work on a new development platform and environment. Add in the fact BBRY market share is falling, and some even have it pegged to file for bankrupcy in the future, so basically BBRY has no bargaining power here. Ultimately customers suffer from the lack of apps. I could tell. It took me a whole 15 minutes to scroll through probably all of the apps available on Appworld for the BB10. What?

    Just add a virtual machine upgrade to the OSes and do it quick pls! Quick!!
    sonic_reducer likes this.
    07-04-13 12:16 AM
  8. diegonei's Avatar
    You are quite late to the party... They thought of that. But they decided that if they added a BBOS VM, they would never get people to code native BB10.

    Kinda the problem they have now with Android.

    So yeah, sucks that the old catalog isn't available. But there ia a reason for this.

    Now stop adding stock talk to this. Try not to derail your own thread.....

    Posted via CB10
    redsaph and dudoo like this.
    07-04-13 12:22 AM
  9. billsterjito's Avatar
    What apps are you looking for?

    I will admit that I miss the old style task manager as well as memo pad.

    The remember app does most of the functions of old but not as well.

    Then there is 10.2, from what I have read...most of the old functionality will come back.

    I feel you pain but patients is a virtue.

    I hope that I am right in my assumption!?



    BB10, Z10
    07-04-13 12:27 AM
  10. pappymappylappy's Avatar
    But beggers aint choosers or they shouldnt be at least.They are alienating customers. They absolutely should include backward compatability with a virtual machine or emulator if that is in the cards. Appl developers should be encouraged to develop in the new environment because of the added functionality it brings. This should be the motivation. I'm not an app developer BTW nor a software engineer and even I can see this to be true.

    I just got confirmation from CS that they have no imminent plans to develop a new platform for the Z10/Q10. This is excellent. Looks like Im switching back to the old phone for now and maybe selling the Q10.
    07-04-13 12:27 AM
  11. pappymappylappy's Avatar
    What apps are you looking for?

    I will admit that I miss the old style task manager as well as memo pad.

    The remember app does most of the functions of old but not as well.

    Then there is 10.2, from what I have read...most of the old functionality will come back.

    I feel you pain but patients is a virtue.

    I hope that I am right in my assumption!?



    BB10, Z10
    Basically a banking software. So it is pretty important as I use it like a routine. Anyway, Im really disappointed. That is all. Playing with the phone tonight and tomorrow will be back to the old BB then maybe even selling this Q10 if it doesnt work out.

    What do you mean features will come back? What features? Im not up to date with the happenings yet as I literally have been using the old OS for a long time and just upgraded today finally.

    However, if they dont make an option that allows old software to be run, this is a deal breaker.
    07-04-13 12:29 AM
  12. masterscarhead1's Avatar
    Not always. Windows 7 supported some XP apps, etc. Its not impossible. Plus, its not like they cant reasonably come up with a solution to the problem. If there was somehow a java emulator or something or a virtual machine then it can run old programs. They just dont have it. They made a new platform. New rules, and they're basically telling app developers to go suck it up and develop a new app from the ground up, or go stick it. Except they are not really in much of a bargaining power because many people are dropping the development of BB apps now since blackberry, at leat in the eyes of wallstreet, is destined to fail. The beauty of java was you can develop the app once and it works on most platforms.

    Ultimately, consumer suffers is all Im saying. Im just angry my apps are not working. I might even go back to my old phone. This phone I can sell on Ebay since I got it cheaper from signing a contract that I wanted to renew anyway. But I think major fail here. I hope they come up with a solution fast to make some backward compatibility a possibility.
    You do realize that XP and Win7 are still coded in the same language right?
    Now try running 16 bit software from W95 on windows 7. It just doesn't work period
    And this stock talk..... Just because wall street doesn't think it will do well doesn't mean that it in fact isn't doing well. If you believe so, then you're obviously as oblivious to stocks as you are to the OS's
    RIM as a company gained money with the switch and the past 2 quarters. However, stocks will drop IF the profit isn't as much as people expect. Many experts in stocks have also commented on how irrational RIM stock prices have been

    Java OS is limited. And to be honest. Every app you need can be found in app world or sideloaded. Name one app you need that isn't present.
    07-04-13 12:30 AM
  13. masterscarhead1's Avatar
    Basically a banking software. So it is pretty important as I use it like a routine. Anyway, Im really disappointed. That is all. Playing with the phone tonight and tomorrow will be back to the old BB then maybe even selling this Q10 if it doesnt work out.

    What do you mean features will come back? What features? Im not up to date with the happenings yet as I literally have been using the old OS for a long time and just upgraded today finally.

    However, if they dont make an option that allows old software to be run, this is a deal breaker.
    Buddy, why not try a new software? There are much better software coded native or in android format
    It will NOT happen that jad and jar files will start working. It just won't be supported period
    I have banking apps working perfectly on the Z10. There is not one single app that I have used on the old OS (trust me, I've probably been using BB longer than you have) that I can't find a better app working on the QNX platform
    You're argument is basically as relevant as iOS users arguing that an W8 phone or QNX or android phone is awful because it doesn't support iMessages. Sure it's nice to have old stuff working, but try new apps that work even better
    habs_fan likes this.
    07-04-13 12:34 AM
  14. masterscarhead1's Avatar
    But beggers aint choosers or they shouldnt be at least.They are alienating customers. They absolutely should include backward compatability with a virtual machine or emulator if that is in the cards. Appl developers should be encouraged to develop in the new environment because of the added functionality it brings. This should be the motivation. I'm not an app developer BTW nor a software engineer and even I can see this to be true.

    I just got confirmation from CS that they have no imminent plans to develop a new platform for the Z10/Q10. This is excellent. Looks like Im switching back to the old phone for now and maybe selling the Q10.
    And no, they are not alienating customers. You seem to be one of the few odd balls out there who refuse to try a new and better software
    07-04-13 12:36 AM
  15. pappymappylappy's Avatar
    You do realize that XP and Win7 are still coded in the same language right?
    Now try running 16 bit software from W95 on windows 7. It just doesn't work period
    And this stock talk..... Just because wall street doesn't think it will do well doesn't mean that it in fact isn't doing well. If you believe so, then you're obviously as oblivious to stocks as you are to the OS's
    RIM as a company gained money with the switch and the past 2 quarters. However, stocks will drop IF the profit isn't as much as people expect. Many experts in stocks have also commented on how irrational RIM stock prices have been

    Java OS is limited. And to be honest. Every app you need can be found in app world or sideloaded. Name one app you need that isn't present.
    Stock talk is actually kinda relevant to my situation as thats the software that doesnt run anymore. Huge dealbreaker here. Anyway. Dont worry Im not shorting BBRY. Too loyal.

    That said, this is a huge fail IMO. Im kinda disappointed that in their state they choose to take a high road instead of sucking up to the app developers. THis is what they should be doing. They should be sucking up to all the app developers and basically begging and bribing them to develop apps for their new OS. Otherwise they failed the most basic of business strategy IMHO.

    And again, as a non software engineering, even I know java is a common programming language and easily implimented across multiple platforms as long as an emulator or virtual machine is in place. Basically its less work for app developers. They learn one language, one system, one development environment and they can roll it out to many physical platforms with minor tweaks. BBRY nowadays is in no position to boss app developers around and force them to learn all new things when there simply isnt the demand from their customers for the new platform. Its pretty basic supply/demand issue here.
    DJM626 likes this.
    07-04-13 12:36 AM
  16. pappymappylappy's Avatar
    And no, they are not alienating customers. You seem to be one of the few odd balls out there who refuse to try a new and better software
    What? So far I like everything else except the email platform not being able to show plaintext. I dont have issues with it otherwise.

    However dealbreaker is the fact it is not backwards compatible to old apps. I cant believe it. This is kinda basic IMO. If I was in charge of overseeing the development of a new OS, one of my requirements on the checklist for the technical staff will be backwards compatibility. Im so serious about this. This is kinda common sense IMHO.
    jhimmel likes this.
    07-04-13 12:39 AM
  17. masterscarhead1's Avatar
    What? So far I like everything else except the email platform not being able to show plaintext. I dont have issues with it otherwise.

    However dealbreaker is the fact it is not backwards compatible to old apps. I cant believe it. This is kinda basic IMO. If I was in charge of overseeing the development of a new OS, one of my requirements on the checklist for the technical staff will be backwards compatibility. Im so serious about this. This is kinda common sense IMHO.
    At least you seem to not be flaming like many people on the forum so I'll be generous
    Tell me what app you had on the old OS, and what functionalities it had
    I'll see if I can't help you find an app that can do the same

    As for the app problem. You can find a new app for every old app you want. Most likely it will be an android app. BB chose to give up on java apps and go for the android apps, which in my opinion is a much better choice. The app library is much larger, and runs much better. Java, sure, it can be easily implemented, but it also is very limited in what it can do. That's why you don't see windows programs being coded in java.
    07-04-13 12:42 AM
  18. trwrt's Avatar
    They must have shipped a BBOS simulator with the SDK. You just need to find a teenager with talent and a healthy disregard for copyright law to hack together a package of QEMU + barebones XP + BBOS simulator and Bob's yer uncle. :-)
    07-04-13 12:43 AM
  19. diegonei's Avatar
    You've been given plenty examples of why it doesn't work and was even shown to how your original MS compatibility model is just not real.

    You're just being stubborn now.

    And no, stock talk doesn't really fall with this thread just because you need a banking app...

    I'm out. Have fun you guys.

    Posted via CB10
    07-04-13 12:44 AM
  20. masterscarhead1's Avatar
    You've been given plenty examples of why it doesn't work and was even shown to how your original MS compatibility model is just not real.

    You're just being stubborn now.

    And no, stock talk doesn't really fall with this thread just because you need a banking app...

    I'm out. Have fun you guys.

    Posted via CB10
    I'll do my best in finding him an app that does exactly what he wants
    After that, I'm out. I just want to show him that the new platform is viable, even more so, with android apps, in comparison to the java apps
    diegonei likes this.
    07-04-13 12:46 AM
  21. pappymappylappy's Avatar
    At least you seem to not be flaming like many people on the forum so I'll be generous
    Tell me what app you had on the old OS, and what functionalities it had
    I'll see if I can't help you find an app that can do the same

    As for the app problem. You can find a new app for every old app you want. Most likely it will be an android app. BB chose to give up on java apps and go for the android apps, which in my opinion is a much better choice. The app library is much larger, and runs much better. Java, sure, it can be easily implemented, but it also is very limited in what it can do. That's why you don't see windows programs being coded in java.
    Ah flamers. Explains why people are so defensive here over what I think are fair and critical assessments of the problems with the current OS. I mean sure. They can keep riding on their high horses here but trust me, I think it will backfire. App developers should be your friends. They should be buddying up to them and sucking up to them, so they will develop great apps for their platform. Its symbiosis. THis is how apple succeeded also. Its like how lobbyists want to be buddy buddy with politicians. A lobbyist wouldnt function very well being adversarial to a politician I can guarentee you that. It would be kinda logical right? Same with the app developer issue.

    Just some banking app. I talked to the CS. They said they have no plans for developing an app for Z10 & Q10. I mean, most of their clients are probably shorting BBRY so they probably have a bad impression of BBRY anyway.

    Thats just one app. There are more of course and none of them have new versions for the BB10. All I can say is Im disappointed, And this is more of a rant but if someoen has a solution that will be great. Although my understanding is there is no solution. You cannot transform .jad to .bar and there is no emulator or virtual machine.
    07-04-13 12:52 AM
  22. masterscarhead1's Avatar
    Ah flamers. Explains why people are so defensive here over what I think are fair and critical assessments of the problems with the current OS. I mean sure. They can keep riding on their high horses here but trust me, I think it will backfire. App developers should be your friends. They should be buddying up to them and sucking up to them, so they will develop great apps for their platform. Its symbiosis. THis is how apple succeeded also. Its like how lobbyists want to be buddy buddy with politicians. A lobbyist wouldnt function very well being adversarial to a politician I can guarentee you that. It would be kinda logical right? Same with the app developer issue.

    Just some banking app. I talked to the CS. They said they have no plans for developing an app for Z10 & Q10. I mean, most of their clients are probably shorting BBRY so they probably have a bad impression of BBRY anyway.

    Thats just one app. There are more of course and none of them have new versions for the BB10. All I can say is Im disappointed, And this is more of a rant but if someoen has a solution that will be great. Although my understanding is there is no solution. You cannot transform .jad to .bar and there is no emulator or virtual machine.
    Again, I'll ask. Why won't you try an android app?
    Devs are RIM's friend. They now support all the android devs. They also support porting of java apps IF the coders choose to port over. Obviously, you can't port a jar file because it's already been compiled.
    07-04-13 12:54 AM
  23. Murados's Avatar
    Posted via CB10
    07-04-13 12:57 AM
  24. pappymappylappy's Avatar
    Again, I'll ask. Why won't you try an android app?
    Devs are RIM's friend. They now support all the android devs. They also support porting of java apps IF the coders choose to port over. Obviously, you can't port a jar file because it's already been compiled.
    I tried installing some apps over the air for the android version with the browser. Just asks to download the file instead of executing it for the install, just like a .jad file that doesnt execute. Seems like a no go. Maybe youre talking a more sophisticated method where you somehow jailbreak it and load the software tethered to a PC or something. That seems advanced and maybe not even that smart of an idea especially for a banking app. But regardless I'd be thankful to here an opinion regardless.
    07-04-13 12:58 AM
  25. Kris Simundson's Avatar
    I tried installing some apps over the air for the android version with the browser. Just asks to download the file instead of executing it for the install, just like a .jad file that doesnt execute. Seems like a no go. Maybe youre talking a more sophisticated method where you somehow jailbreak it and load the software tethered to a PC or something. That seems advanced and maybe not even that smart of an idea especially for a banking app. But regardless I'd be thankful to here an opinion regardless.
    No jailbreaking, and sideloading is a simple process

    Posted via CB10
    07-04-13 01:00 AM
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