1. WES51's Avatar
    ...and then what? We are going to argue about each of those features one by one on a heroic final battle? Which I then obviously ought to loose due to being outgunned from a lack of time and energy to respond.

    And that then will show and highlight the flaws of my reasoning and prove all my previously made points wrong?

    No. I do not accept. And I stand by my previous statements!
    09-14-19 10:46 AM
  2. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    If you believe you did not lose privacy or security moving from Blackberry 10 to Android, you are welcome to that opinion. There is substantial evidence to the contrary.

    As for ease of getting things done, I suppose it's possible some people believe that it's easier to get things done on Android. I and the vast majority of Blackberry users would disagree.

    If I may ask, since you said you moved "back" to Android, did you start on Blackberry/BB10 devices or were you originally an Android user?
    The phrase vast majority of BB users is flawed data. If someone disagrees then moves to another OS, they’re most likely no longer a user. The vast majority of BB users collectively left BB years ago. Most BB users went straight to Android/iOS because it was 5-6 years before the BB10 response existed.

    To your point, BB10 users stay with BB10 since it’s preferred over Android/iOS for that group. That’s no different than saying I prefer BBAndroid over regular Android until that’s no longer an option.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    09-14-19 10:48 AM
  3. saint300's Avatar
    I would say it's mostly apps, yes. But what most people claim are core OS functions, are really just apps too. So that definition covers a lot of ground.

    But this does not mean that the residual functionality on BB10 can't be perfectly well suited to the needs of some users, and I personally have always acknowledge that.
    I agree again. And by now I know that although you have moved on because your needs were better served elsewhere, you still to that day help people having issues with BB10. So, thank you for this!
    ppeters914 likes this.
    09-14-19 11:10 AM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I have to agree with you here as well with regards to what those "things" are. Basically it's apps, no? So if there are any critical apps for someone that cannot run on BB10, then there' s no other option than to move to another platform. In other words, what works for me, may not work for you and vice versa, but this is not a very good reason to dismiss BB10 yet, me thinks.....
    If you can get things done on BB10 so be it... That is getting harder for people since ART 4.3 for many is no longer acceptable. It will be no different with BBAndroid if updates stop and Oreo 8.1 isn’t good enough. It’s already causing problems for people on BB PRIV stuck on Marshmallow 6 today.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    09-14-19 11:18 AM
  5. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    You were not discussing anything regarding an actual OS. You specifically called out USERS of that OS. That is the problem here--when people actively attack folks who use a particular OS that those people consider "outdated" or "irrelevant" or otherwise bad. That's why BB10 users feel oppressed here--because they are attacked, ridiculed, and demeaned for their choice, despite the fact that the very company the attackers say "are just making business decisions" has made the business decision to keep supporting those users.

    You may think Blackberry Limited has made a bad call. But don't attack the people who choose to keep using an OS because you disagree with that choice. Either help them or don't comment.
    Hey TT - saw this but waited awhile to reply. We’re all discussing and I don’t think anyone is attacking BB10 users personally or collectively.

    The reality is that many of the points Troy is making here is also being said by Troy in the BBAndroid forums regarding BBMo/TCT regarding the current and future situation.

    I can tell you that mods have been patrolling and enforcing TOS since I’m seeing my posts deleted when tangled up in someone else’s garbage....
    09-14-19 01:08 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    I stand by my previous statements!
    With what evidence?
    09-14-19 01:30 PM
  7. FortressBB10's Avatar
    No chance? Again, I don't understand. You believe BlackBerry and/or BBMo base their platform decisions by scanning Crackberry? If so, they were in worse shape that we thought. They have strategic planning departments, surveys, focus groups, market analysis, etc for that.

    And which pool exactly do I claim to represent?
    I'm not completely convinced that Mr. Chen engaged in extensive research before making decisions. For example, did a focus group give any opinions on the naming of the "Priv"?
    09-14-19 02:24 PM
  8. WES51's Avatar
    With what evidence?
    The evidence is in all the spinning that was done by these few handful and arguably selfrighteous people and can be found all over Crackberry.

    Besides that, this is not a trial, there is no jury and no verdict.

    Ironically, even in this thread, I strongly sense the same firm projection of superiority that I was objecting to.

    So in some ways some of the comments here are self defeating.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    09-14-19 03:31 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    The evidence is in all the spinning that was done by these few handful and arguably selfrighteous people and can be found all over Crackberry.

    Besides that, this is not a trial, there is no jury and no verdict.

    Ironically, even in this thread, I strongly sense the same firm projection of superiority that I was objecting to.

    So in some ways some of the comments here are self defeating.
    You are making the claim that a few of us are directly responsible for preventing certain features getting to BlackBerry-branded devices, and then choosing not to back up those claims.

    Am I spinning or being self-righteous when I ask why?
    09-14-19 03:38 PM
  10. WES51's Avatar
    You are making the claim that a few of us are directly responsible for preventing certain features getting to BlackBerry-branded devices, and then choosing not to back up those claims.

    Am I spinning or being self-righteous when I ask why?
    Bingo. Of course far from directly responsible, but very well fostering an environment in which speaking up for features was chilled.

    It will be interesting to see what happens next, now that we are all in the same boat.
    09-14-19 03:45 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    Bingo. Of course far from directly responsible, but very well fostering an environment in which speaking up for features was chilled.

    It will be interesting to see what happens next, now that we are all in the same boat.
    An environment where people aren't free to disagree with each other is far more chilling as far as I'm concerned.

    There is no conspiracy. If a particular idea is met with a consistent response from a number of independent people, then that probably speaks more to the idea itself than anything else.

    If you simply want a safe space, then I don't know what to say. This forum is more diverse than that.
    09-14-19 03:49 PM
  12. WES51's Avatar
    An environment where people aren't free to disagree with each other is far more chilling as far as I'm concerned.
    A-ha. Except when a few people with all the time in the world on their hands are dominating the discussion.

    You have to understand that if people come here to state feature requests, then they don't come here to argue some endless philosophical and economic debate about why their request may be right or wrong.

    They just want what they want and if they weren't shut down from the beginning, others might have joined in support of their request.

    But that is exactly that was prevented here over and over, willfully or not, with those 20 or so people who vehemently disagreed and managed to effectively choke a good number of potentially great requests.
    bb9900user2018 and elfabio80 like this.
    09-14-19 04:00 PM
  13. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The evidence is in all the spinning that was done by these few handful and arguably selfrighteous people and can be found all over Crackberry.

    Besides that, this is not a trial, there is no jury and no verdict.

    Ironically, even in this thread, I strongly sense the same firm projection of superiority that I was objecting to.

    So in some ways some of the comments here are self defeating.
    How does one project superiority in a thread discussion?
    WES51 and ppeters914 like this.
    09-14-19 04:02 PM
  14. conite's Avatar
    A-ha. Except when a few people with all the time in the world on their hands are dominating the discussion.

    You have to understand that if people come here to state feature requests, then they don't come here to argue some endless philosophical and economic debate about why their request may be right or wrong.

    They just want what they want and if they weren't shut down from the beginning, others might have joined in support of their request.

    But that is exactly that was prevented here over and over, willfully or not, with those 20 or so people who vehemently disagreed and managed to effectively choke a good number of potentially great requests.
    Except those "20 people" have nothing to do with each other.
    09-14-19 04:03 PM
  15. WES51's Avatar
    Except those "20 people" have nothing to do with each other.
    It makes no difference.
    09-14-19 04:04 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    It makes no difference.
    Sure it does - statistically anyway.

    When one has a contrarian opinion or idea, then one usually feels "ignored" or "misunderstood". But the fact is, only 0.01% of contrarian ideas are any good, where 99.99% of them are non-starters.

    There are very few Steve Jobs out there. And even he wasn't right much of the time.
    09-14-19 04:07 PM
  17. FortressBB10's Avatar
    A-ha. Except when a few people with all the time in the world on their hands are dominating the discussion.

    You have to understand that if people come here to state feature requests, then they don't come here to argue some endless philosophical and economic debate about why their request may be right or wrong.

    They just want what they want and if they weren't shut down from the beginning, others might have joined in support of their request.

    But that is exactly that was prevented here over and over, willfully or not, with those 20 or so people who vehemently disagreed and managed to effectively choke a good number of potentially great requests.
    Just to clarify, are you talking about feature requests for BB10 or for Android or for both? Thank you.
    09-14-19 04:08 PM
  18. joeldf's Avatar
    Bingo. Of course far from directly responsible, but very well fostering an environment in which speaking up for features was chilled.

    It will be interesting to see what happens next, now that we are all in the same boat.
    I'm sorry, but I've been here a long time. And never seen a situation of any "feature" requested on these forums that's been somehow squashed because of any comments from members here.

    Actual feature requests were the purview of the old BlackBerry Support Forums, but that was shut down a couple years ago when OS development (for new features) essentially ended.

    To claim that a corporate decision is somehow the fault of members on this forum, but then say "but I'm not telling you what that is" is a disingenuous argument. Tells us you have nothing.
    09-14-19 04:14 PM
  19. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    A-ha. Except when a few people with all the time in the world on their hands are dominating the discussion.

    You have to understand that if people come here to state feature requests, then they don't come here to argue some endless philosophical and economic debate about why their request may be right or wrong.

    They just want what they want and if they weren't shut down from the beginning, others might have joined in support of their request.

    But that is exactly that was prevented here over and over, willfully or not, with those 20 or so people who vehemently disagreed and managed to effectively choke a good number of potentially great requests.
    So if we post here a lot that means we have free time? Could we just be able to multi-task?

    If people come here about feature discussions, we can’t bring up probable feasibility or unfeasibility since it could hurt someone’s feelings?

    I feel like I’m at my kids’ volleyball tournaments where some parent complains we’re not getting participation trophies. BB failed in the mobile hardware space because not everyone can be a winner. There are plenty of losers out there with their carcasses lining the side of the road picked clean by the vultures. That was almost BlackBerry and yet here we are...
    ppeters914 likes this.
    09-14-19 04:23 PM
  20. WES51's Avatar
    So if we post here a lot that means we have free time? Could we just be able to multi-task?
    I already explained everything with enough detail and I stand by everything that I said. No need for a spin or putting twisted words in my mouth.
    09-14-19 04:30 PM
  21. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I already explained everything in great detail and I stand by everything that I said. No need for a spin or putting twisted words in my mouth.
    Yeah, I heard your version. Now you can hear mine... see what I mean...

    It seems as if you feel anything that disagrees with your perspective is either wrong or hurtful. I should just be quiet and wait until it’s ok to speak. Got it....
    ppeters914 and Dunt Dunt Dunt like this.
    09-14-19 04:32 PM
  22. WES51's Avatar
    It seems as if you feel anything that disagrees with your perspective is either wrong or hurtful. I should just be quiet and wait until it’s ok to speak. Got it....
    You are continuing to put words in my mouth and don't even recognize it.
    09-14-19 04:37 PM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    You are continuing to put words in my mouth and don't even recognize it.
    Okay?!?
    09-14-19 04:42 PM
  24. FortressBB10's Avatar
    So if we post here a lot that means we have free time? Could we just be able to multi-task?
    Personally, I'm in the middle of my fourth disc fusion surgery today but I have a free hand to type this. Oops, better check the anesthesia!
    09-14-19 05:02 PM
  25. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Personally, I'm in the middle of my fourth disc fusion surgery today but I have a free hand to type this. Oops, better check the anesthesia!
    LMAO

    That’s why god created mal ins
    09-14-19 05:04 PM
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