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09-17-19 05:37 PM
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  1. WES51's Avatar
    This has been a frequently asked question here and 'traditionally' the answers have always been dominated by passionate spin attempts against buying outdated devices and pushing people to buy the latest overpriced disfunctional Android junk.

    Well, except apparently it is game over for the Android junk AND now surprise, surprise, suddenly the advice is that it is perfectly OK to buy an outdated device.

    Interesting how the tables have turned.

    Disclaimer: you need to follow some of the Android section in order to understand what I'm talking about here.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    09-12-19 07:54 PM
  2. John Albert's Avatar
    I'm really tired of seeing such angry comments recently all the time in this forum.
    09-12-19 07:57 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    This has been a frequently asked question here and 'traditionally' the answers have always been dominated by passionate spin attempts against buying outdated devices and pushing people to buy the latest overpriced disfunctional Android junk.

    Well, except apparently it is game over for the Android junk AND now surprise, surprise, suddenly the advice is that it is perfectly OK to buy an outdated device.

    Interesting how the tables have turned.

    Disclaimer: you need to follow some of the Android section in order to understand what I'm talking about here.
    What axe are you trying to grind? Why so confrontational?

    Security patches are certainly a good thing, and if they stop, that would be most unfortunate.

    However, BlackBerry Android has extra resiliency built in via BlackBerry Integrity Detection (which monitors for changes in system files and for other unusual behaviour).

    The kernel is also hardened, and the boatloader remains locked despite efforts to unlock it.

    And no one would argue against the fact that 99.9% of security breaches result from poor passwords, lack of 2FA, silly app installs, and laziness with regards to granting app permissions.

    Devices will continue to benefit from updated browsers, updated apps, and Play Protect.

    Some considerations trump others depending on user preferences. I, for example, would be quite confident in my abilities to stay safe going forward even without further patches. I would be willing to do that because of the physical keyboard. Do I wish I didn't have to make a choice? Of course. But that is the choice I would make.
    Last edited by conite; 09-12-19 at 09:09 PM.
    Shuswap likes this.
    09-12-19 08:02 PM
  4. WES51's Avatar
    I'm really tired of seeing such angry comments recently all the time in this forum.
    I'm not angry at all. Just stating the obvious.

    By the way, where was your comment during the times, when so many of legacy users were marginalized?
    elfabio80 likes this.
    09-12-19 08:08 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    I'm not angry at all. Just stating the obvious.

    By the way, where was your comment during the times, when so many of legacy users were marginalized?
    Well, I would never have called BB10 or BBOS junk. Calling something junk says something about what you think of its users too, no? The implication being that they are either too dumb or too ignorant to know any better.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    09-12-19 08:19 PM
  6. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Well, I would never have called BB10 or BBOS junk. Calling something junk says something about what you think of its users too, no? The implication being that they are either too dumb or too ignorant to know any better.
    There have been MANY MANY MANY comments in these forums by the old guard Crackberry members denigrating BB10 users. If I really need to break out specific examples I can, but trying to suggest that there hasn't been a strong push for folks to abandon BB10 for GooBerrys ignores the reality of Crackberry for the last couple of years.

    As for whether something is "junk" that is an opinion...and to suggest that calling something junk means you think its users are also junk would also seem to apply to other opinions about a platform. In other words, under that logic any opinions one has about a platform's viability, age, or utility would transfer directly to that platform's users....which would mean even MORE Crackberry comments would be denigrating BB10 users than those that overtly do so.
    OrlandoTruth and Jake2826 like this.
    09-12-19 08:57 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    There have been MANY MANY MANY comments in these forums by the old guard Crackberry members denigrating BB10 users. If I really need to break out specific examples I can, but trying to suggest that there hasn't been a strong push for folks to abandon BB10 for GooBerrys ignores the reality of Crackberry for the last couple of years.

    As for whether something is "junk" that is an opinion...and to suggest that calling something junk means you think its users are also junk would also seem to apply to other opinions about a platform. In other words, under that logic any opinions one has about a platform's viability, age, or utility would transfer directly to that platform's users....which would mean even MORE Crackberry comments would be denigrating BB10 users than those that overtly do so.
    I only speak for myself. I don't take any responsibility for anything anyone else may have said over the years.

    There are many valid reasons to suggest updating to a modern platform, and people can certainly disagree on what those are. That's still a far cry from calling legacy platforms junk.
    Last edited by conite; 09-12-19 at 09:23 PM.
    09-12-19 09:07 PM
  8. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    I only speak for myself. I don't take any responsibility for anything anyone else may have said over the years.

    There are many valid reasons to suggest updating to a modern platform, and people can certainly disagree on what those are. That's still a far cry from calling legacy platforms junk.
    Didn't you just say that that you believe that calling a platform junk means you're really calling its users junk?
    09-12-19 09:51 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    Didn't you just say that that you believe that calling a platform junk means you're really calling its users junk?
    No.
    09-12-19 09:52 PM
  10. melhiore's Avatar
    No.
    Hehe, you actually did... Not that I care but that how I read your post...
    09-13-19 07:11 AM
  11. conite's Avatar
    Hehe, you actually did... Not that I care but that how I read your post...
    "The implication being that they are either too dumb or too ignorant to know any better."

    And I have never called ANY platform "junk". People have reasons for using what they use.
    09-13-19 07:13 AM
  12. chain13's Avatar
    This has been a frequently asked question here and 'traditionally' the answers have always been dominated by passionate spin attempts against buying outdated devices and pushing people to buy the latest overpriced disfunctional Android junk.

    Well, except apparently it is game over for the Android junk AND now surprise, surprise, suddenly the advice is that it is perfectly OK to buy an outdated device.

    Interesting how the tables have turned.

    Disclaimer: you need to follow some of the Android section in order to understand what I'm talking about here.
    What do you expect? This site has "berry" name on its tail..
    09-13-19 07:42 AM
  13. chain13's Avatar
    The kernel is also hardened, and the boatloader remains locked despite efforts to unlock it.
    And yet, the security breaches that happen the regularly aren't the one that attack the kernel. That's why continous updates mean more than just hardened or encrypted closed system.

    And no one would argue against the fact that 99.9% of security breaches result from poor passwords, lack of 2FA, silly app installs, and laziness with regards to granting app permissions.
    Oh, you answered it yourself.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    09-13-19 07:49 AM
  14. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    What do you expect? This site has "berry" name on its tail..
    That's the thing... if the continuation of "berry" was going to happen under TCL, they really needed the FULL support of the community.

    But just like with BBOS users not supporting BB10 and it thus failing. BBOS and BB10 users didn't support BBMo enough to make it viable.

    Was BlackBerry's Android Secure "better" as an OS than BB10... I'd agree it wasn't. But as a platform with an ecosystem it clearly had an advantage. And BBMo is the only one doing PKB phones. Without them the future of that format is unknown.

    In the end I guess misery loves company.... if BlackBerry failed with BB10, it's better that they failed at Android as well. Not sure how that benefits anyone.... especially fans of the PKB format.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    09-13-19 08:02 AM
  15. Shuswap's Avatar
    Security patches are certainly a good thing, and if they stop, that would be most unfortunate.

    However, BlackBerry Android has extra resiliency built in via BlackBerry Integrity Detection (which monitors for changes in system files and for other unusual behaviour).

    The kernel is also hardened, and the boatloader remains locked despite efforts to unlock it.

    And no one would argue against the fact that 99.9% of security breaches result from poor passwords, lack of 2FA, silly app installs, and laziness with regards to granting app permissions.

    Devices will continue to benefit from updated browsers, updated apps, and Play Protect.

    Some considerations trump others depending on user preferences. I, for example, would be quite confident in my abilities to stay safe going forward even without further patches. I would be willing to do that because of the physical keyboard. Do I wish I didn't have to make a choice? Of course. But that is the choice I would make.
    ^^^^^^^ This. I know technically inclined people who still run outdated versions of Windows without any issues (check out MSFN or forum.thinkpads.com). I've been using my Bold 9900 for ages without issue.

    If you're careful about what you do with outdated software, the risks are relatively low. But they're always lower (and you can do more) with more recent updates.

    With respect to forum members' recommendations, new people come on the forums all the time asking if they should buy a BBOS or BB10 device. I once made an off-the-cuff remark that if you have to ask the question, you shouldn't buy one. I regret the tone of that statement, but it's true.

    Old OSes are for people who have or are willing to develop enough knowledge, enjoy tinkering, and can live with limits. The second post from most people who "just want to talk and text" on an old Curve is usually something along the lines of "How do I install Whatsapp [Skype, Instagram, etc.]?"

    That's why the common refrain is that they should look into an Android device. It's the responsible response. An Android device is just going to do what most people want a phone to do, with a minimum of hassle.

    My next device is going to be a PinePhone. I'd recommend it to absolutely zero people I know. That doesn't mean that it's not going to be a great device. It's just not for most people.
    09-13-19 10:48 AM
  16. PantherBlitz's Avatar
    But just like with BBOS users not supporting BB10 and it thus failing. BBOS and BB10 users didn't support BBMo enough to make it viable.
    Totally true, and add to that the number of users who waited for BBMo phones to hit clearance or for the usual carrier dump to the gray market. TCL had no intention of letting that happen.
    09-13-19 11:24 AM
  17. chain13's Avatar
    In the end I guess misery loves company.... if BlackBerry failed with BB10, it's better that they failed at Android as well. Not sure how that benefits anyone.... especially fans of the PKB format.
    Actually, is it a pkb phone that you need?
    Or is it a blackberry branded phone that you need?
    Hopefully, there will be more small brands that decide to go for pkb route other than blackberry.
    Shuswap likes this.
    09-13-19 12:49 PM
  18. Lukong1515's Avatar
    Bro I bought a Passport in 2019 for the keyboard thinking I saw ads of it Running Android, I checked the Specs (Which are are MarshMellow Phone specs like Moto X Gen2) and I come on this forum thinking that BBOS10.3 is great cause of the Fanboys hating Android and loving thier OS's design...

    If BBOS10 Users were more realistic when they critic iOS/Android vs BBOS10 you wouldn't get threads like those.
    - I discovered AppStore which maybe discontinued doesn't even have good apps vs a Froyo [Android 2.2] can still get good apps
    - You can't install BAR apps from SDCard, but Sideload/Etc/GoogleChrome Plugin/Outdated method
    - BBOS can't control the APK app permissions or at least give us a "We blocked it from our side and that may cause problems"
    - Autoloaders from BBSite are DevOS and ones on Crackberry are Difficult to download due to Mega & sadly my OS is worst than before
    - There isn't a Select All option in the File Manager
    - No DOS/Recovery Mode
    - My phone turns on when I plug it into the charger
    - #1 Solution is to Wipe Phone & Reinstall OS
    - No way to clear cache or ram easily or BAR APP
    - THE WAY ANDROID PLAYER & OS HAS TO TAKE LONG TO LOAD UP
    - THE INFAMOUS CERTIFCATE PROBLEM [Stops you from loading webpages], that can ONLY BE BYPASS WITH AN ANDROID LAUNCHER > ANDROID BROWSER > SETTINGS > UNCHECK SECURITY WARNINGS
    - THE INFAMOUS NO NEXT ON WIFI SETUP that you get after using your phone for sometime to only discover that BB doesn't allow access to the internal memory so You lose anything that was on the phone after your forced to apply the Autoloader
    - OH AND ANDROID PLAYER IS STUCK AT ANDROID 4.3, but RUNS LIKE ANDROID 1.5 PHONE UPDATED TO AN OS IT CAN'T HANDLE

    LAST WHY DO THE APPS & FOLDER STRUCTURE IN THE ROOT [NEED ES FILE MANAGER] MAKE THE BBOS10 look like a Heavily Modded Android OS design to BLOCK USERS FROM ANY ACCESS TO FILES/FEATURES/ROOTING unless this is RUNTIME APPS TOO
    Should I buy an outdated...?-bbos-apps.png


    ...I found a thread that called an iPhone 4 or 5 trash compared to a Q10...please if you guys keep this up BB isn't going think they need to try harder...
    ...I see a thread calling Unihertz Titan some sort of copycat knockoff...Passport runs 4.3...Titan runs 9...do the math
    John Albert likes this.
    09-13-19 06:33 PM
  19. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Bro I bought a Passport in 2019 for the keyboard thinking I saw ads of it Running Android, I checked the Specs (Which are are MarshMellow Phone specs like Moto X Gen2) and I come on this forum thinking that BBOS10.3 is great cause of the Fanboys hating Android and loving thier OS's design...

    If BBOS10 Users were more realistic when they critic iOS/Android vs BBOS10 you wouldn't get threads like those.
    - I discovered AppStore which maybe discontinued doesn't even have good apps vs a Froyo [Android 2.2] can still get good apps
    - You can't install BAR apps from SDCard, but Sideload/Etc/GoogleChrome Plugin/Outdated method
    - BBOS can't control the APK app permissions or at least give us a "We blocked it from our side and that may cause problems"
    - Autoloaders from BBSite are DevOS and ones on Crackberry are Difficult to download due to Mega & sadly my OS is worst than before
    - There isn't a Select All option in the File Manager
    - No DOS/Recovery Mode
    - My phone turns on when I plug it into the charger
    - #1 Solution is to Wipe Phone & Reinstall OS
    - No way to clear cache or ram easily or BAR APP
    - THE WAY ANDROID PLAYER & OS HAS TO TAKE LONG TO LOAD UP
    - THE INFAMOUS CERTIFCATE PROBLEM [Stops you from loading webpages], that can ONLY BE BYPASS WITH AN ANDROID LAUNCHER > ANDROID BROWSER > SETTINGS > UNCHECK SECURITY WARNINGS
    - THE INFAMOUS NO NEXT ON WIFI SETUP that you get after using your phone for sometime to only discover that BB doesn't allow access to the internal memory so You lose anything that was on the phone after your forced to apply the Autoloader
    - OH AND ANDROID PLAYER IS STUCK AT ANDROID 4.3, but RUNS LIKE ANDROID 1.5 PHONE UPDATED TO AN OS IT CAN'T HANDLE

    LAST WHY DO THE APPS & FOLDER STRUCTURE IN THE ROOT [NEED ES FILE MANAGER] MAKE THE BBOS10 look like a Heavily Modded Android OS design to BLOCK USERS FROM ANY ACCESS TO FILES/FEATURES/ROOTING unless this is RUNTIME APPS TOO
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BBOS Apps.png 
Views:	20 
Size:	51.9 KB 
ID:	446150


    ...I found a thread that called an iPhone 4 or 5 trash compared to a Q10...please if you guys keep this up BB isn't going think they need to try harder...
    ...I see a thread calling Unihertz Titan some sort of copycat knockoff...Passport runs 4.3...Titan runs 9...do the math
    I love to grave dance and I love to play the devils advocate. I’m really not sure what to post here.....

    Seriously, you do realize BB10 hasn’t been actively developed for 3-4 years now, right?
    ppeters914 likes this.
    09-13-19 08:08 PM
  20. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Bro I bought a Passport in 2019 for the keyboard thinking I saw ads of it Running Android, I checked the Specs (Which are are MarshMellow Phone specs like Moto X Gen2) and I come on this forum thinking that BBOS10.3 is great cause of the Fanboys hating Android and loving thier OS's design...

    If BBOS10 Users were more realistic when they critic iOS/Android vs BBOS10 you wouldn't get threads like those.
    - I discovered AppStore which maybe discontinued doesn't even have good apps vs a Froyo [Android 2.2] can still get good apps
    - You can't install BAR apps from SDCard, but Sideload/Etc/GoogleChrome Plugin/Outdated method
    - BBOS can't control the APK app permissions or at least give us a "We blocked it from our side and that may cause problems"
    - Autoloaders from BBSite are DevOS and ones on Crackberry are Difficult to download due to Mega & sadly my OS is worst than before
    - There isn't a Select All option in the File Manager
    - No DOS/Recovery Mode
    - My phone turns on when I plug it into the charger
    - #1 Solution is to Wipe Phone & Reinstall OS
    - No way to clear cache or ram easily or BAR APP
    - THE WAY ANDROID PLAYER & OS HAS TO TAKE LONG TO LOAD UP
    - THE INFAMOUS CERTIFCATE PROBLEM [Stops you from loading webpages], that can ONLY BE BYPASS WITH AN ANDROID LAUNCHER > ANDROID BROWSER > SETTINGS > UNCHECK SECURITY WARNINGS
    - THE INFAMOUS NO NEXT ON WIFI SETUP that you get after using your phone for sometime to only discover that BB doesn't allow access to the internal memory so You lose anything that was on the phone after your forced to apply the Autoloader
    - OH AND ANDROID PLAYER IS STUCK AT ANDROID 4.3, but RUNS LIKE ANDROID 1.5 PHONE UPDATED TO AN OS IT CAN'T HANDLE

    LAST WHY DO THE APPS & FOLDER STRUCTURE IN THE ROOT [NEED ES FILE MANAGER] MAKE THE BBOS10 look like a Heavily Modded Android OS design to BLOCK USERS FROM ANY ACCESS TO FILES/FEATURES/ROOTING unless this is RUNTIME APPS TOO
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BBOS Apps.png 
Views:	20 
Size:	51.9 KB 
ID:	446150


    ...I found a thread that called an iPhone 4 or 5 trash compared to a Q10...please if you guys keep this up BB isn't going think they need to try harder...
    ...I see a thread calling Unihertz Titan some sort of copycat knockoff...Passport runs 4.3...Titan runs 9...do the math
    Lukong, I think you may be confused here. It's entirely fine if you like Android and want to run a phone that has Android, which is what it sounds like. Knock yourself out. But some of the complaints you're citing here are, with respect, either wrong or relate to confusion about how Blackberry 10 operates.
    09-13-19 08:27 PM
  21. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    No.
    From earlier in this thread:

    Didn't you just say that that you believe that calling a platform junk means you're really calling its users junk?
    No.
    Calling something junk says something about what you think of its users too, no?
    We'll let the people decide on this one.
    09-13-19 08:30 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    From earlier in this thread:







    We'll let the people decide on this one.
    You didn't quote the actual statement.

    "The implication being that they are either too dumb or too ignorant to know any better."
    09-13-19 08:32 PM
  23. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    That's the thing... if the continuation of "berry" was going to happen under TCL, they really needed the FULL support of the community.

    But just like with BBOS users not supporting BB10 and it thus failing. BBOS and BB10 users didn't support BBMo enough to make it viable.

    Was BlackBerry's Android Secure "better" as an OS than BB10... I'd agree it wasn't. But as a platform with an ecosystem it clearly had an advantage. And BBMo is the only one doing PKB phones. Without them the future of that format is unknown.

    In the end I guess misery loves company.... if BlackBerry failed with BB10, it's better that they failed at Android as well. Not sure how that benefits anyone.... especially fans of the PKB format.
    I think that you may have misunderstood the appeal of Blackberry 10, and possibly Blackberry as a brand.

    The appeal of Blackberry for many many users never was solely the PKB. If that was the case, people would have kept using PKBs on Motorola and other non-smartphone platforms. It was the privacy, security, and ease of getting things done that the brand offered.

    With Android, you lose all three of those items.
    Jake2826 and bb9900user2018 like this.
    09-13-19 08:32 PM
  24. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    You didn't quote the actual statement.
    Your reply certainly didn't. But I did indeed quote the actual statement, as anyone can check upthread.
    09-13-19 08:34 PM
  25. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    I saw this reply on another thread which perfectly illustrates the overall point:

    Also, NO ONE cares about the people who are still hanging on to BB10 in 2019 - such people are such contrarians that no one is worried about what they want or think.
    Sure, there's no bias against BB10 users amongst the CB old guard. Not at all.
    09-13-19 08:38 PM
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