[howarmat]

I have a Z10, and I use a BIS plan right now - so Yes - I know what I said... and please point me to where BB say BB10 can NOT use BIS? you can't - they never said that...

The reality is that Z10 and BB10 - CAN use BIS if you choose to do so - but it does not REQUIRE anything else than a normal data plan (if your carrier allows it)

Sigh

you can use a BIS plan but you dont get the BIS features.

[MobileMadness002]

you can use a BIS plan but you dont get the BIS features.

And you can only use a bis plan that includes a bucket of data. Fortunately mine includes 6GB.

[shefiu]

Frankly, I believe the Z10 has the necessary security features built in. BBM, for example, still goes through their servers I believe? Compression could be an issue for some as is enhanced security of all the data going out of your phone... I'm not the most aware, but just putting in my 2c..

Here in India, I would still continue to use the BIS plan. Why? at INR 599 (about 11 to 12USD) on a postpaid connection, I get unlimited 3G Data with 2GB off device per month. Any other package has a data cap... I have happily streamed videos, downloaded songs and videos on my 9860. Impatiently awaiting the arrival of my Z10 to put it through its paces!

[kevinnugent]

R.I.P. RIM (hopefully jim basilie decides to resurrect a divice with pin & bis)

He'll probably call it the "Leapfrog"

[AlexXF]

There need to explain. Yes, there is a official statement - "BIS does not required*", but there is a some 'star' on this statement. Yes, it does not required... on service providers that supports BB10 officially.

What this means? If your service provider does not support Blackberry 10, BBM or some services may not works. Looks like there is a cath - service providers that have BB10 support just combine BIS and standard data plans to allow BBM and other BIS features (maybe BB Protect in feature).

I've test it - in Czech Z10 works at BIS + Standard data plan ONLY! So, it may be true - BIS is hidden for most of all users, but it still requires.

PS. This is only IMHO.

[lnichols]

So before BB10 = BIS sucks
After BB10 = BIS was the greatest thing BlackBerry had

No the people using the other platforms that trolled here daily said it sucked and EAS was just as good. Now it is being proven that those comments were lies, and those people are/were clueless about the advantages of BIS. But people believed them, bitched to RIM, and now BIS is gone. So now we have the same crap that the other platforms have! I shocked that they got rid of it completely. I'd probably pay the $5 per month to them directly to keep it, especially for international travel.

[ealvnv]

No the people using the other platforms that trolled here daily said it sucked and EAS was just as good. Now it is being proven that those comments were lies, and those people are/were clueless about the advantages of BIS. But people believed them, bitched to RIM, and now BIS is gone. So now we have the same crap that the other platforms have! I shocked that they got rid of it completely. I'd probably pay the $5 per month to them directly to keep it, especially for international travel.

Read the document I linked in a previous post. Explains a lot about how BIS worked and you will see that many of those magical things about BIS were wrong statements from people that never understood how it really worked

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[lnichols]

Read the document I linked in a previous post. Explains a lot about how BIS worked and you will see that many of those magical things about BIS were wrong statements from people that never understood how it really worked

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

I already know how BIS works, and how BES works. BIS was doing all the work, polling e-mail accounts, syncing with them etc, and only sending data to the phone when needed. It also is looking at an account that I can only get to via OWA and reading those messages and getting them to my phone. It also is basically an Internet proxy providing compression from the phone to BIS. This is why when BIS was down, e-mail, Web and BBM wouldn't work. Now with BIS gone, all of the processing, polling, etc. that was offloaded by the BIS infrastructure now has to be done from the phone. Compression gone. BB International Travel Plans where you could get unlimited e-mail, BBM and web are gone. Obviously RIM is keeping some of the services working like BBM, and easier e-mail setup, but what I valued from BIS most is now gone.

[b320]

There need to explain. Yes, there is a official statement - "BIS does not required*", but there is a some 'star' on this statement. Yes, it does not required... on service providers that supports BB10 officially.

What this means? If your service provider does not support Blackberry 10, BBM or some services may not works. Looks like there is a cath - service providers that have BB10 support just combine BIS and standard data plans to allow BBM and other BIS features (maybe BB Protect in feature).

I've test it - in Czech Z10 works at BIS + Standard data plan ONLY! So, it may be true - BIS is hidden for most of all users, but it still requires.

PS. This is only IMHO.

Whether a BlackBerry-specific data plan is required DOES depend on your carrier. However, it's a marketing requirement only and not a technical one. Your BlackBerry 10 device *will* work, including email and BBM, without any cellular service through Wifi (a carrier network is still needed for phone calls and SMS, of course).

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[raremage]

Just answer the original question: No.

[mjdimer]

Because not all have the luxury of 5Gb plans. I'll be lucky to get 1.5Gb on a $60 plan, whereas bis was unlimited. That's what I'll be missing.

[ealvnv]

BIS wasn't unlimited, how much data you get is dependent on your service provider

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[b320]

BIS wasn't unlimited, how much data you get is dependent on your service provider

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

Some carriers did or do offer "unlimited" BIS plans. Yes, people will have to get used to regular data plans, which make carriers a lot more money. The marketplace has chosen and on this front, the Apple / Android way of doing things won (expensive data plans to subsidize outrageously expensive smartphones).

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[ealvnv]

Some carriers did or do offer "unlimited" BIS plans. Yes, people will have to get used to regular data plans, which make carriers a lot more money. The marketplace has chosen and on this front, the Apple / Android way of doing things won (expensive data plans to subsidize outrageously expensive smartphones).

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

Yes but then again the carrier could still provide unlimited data plans regardless of BIS

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[b320]

Yes but then again the carrier could still provide unlimited data plans regardless of BIS

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

And some do, like T-Mobile and Sprint.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[bmantz65]

I'm sure BlackBerry did research about the benefits and drawbacks of not being BIS dependent. I don't think they are saying, "Oops, that was an oversight." Perhaps, in an effort to appeal to the more consumer crowd, they decided to take email and browsing off the BIS infrastructure for a better user experience, i.e no downtime in case of a NOC outage, entire email being delivered at once, etc ? Maybe this is setting the stage for them to do different things with BIS in the future i.e service tiers. This is the age of LTE and quad core processors, does it make sense to handicap the phone by still using data compression and email via BIS? Yes in 2006, but not in 2013. Understandable that not everyone can afford or is offered an unlimited data plan, but is the average consumer going to care that they have data compression or BIS data or that their favorite website loads slow or they have to wait and wait for a long graphic intensive email to load? Unfortunately this is looking like a compromise.

Yes, I agree BB needed to keep some BB exclusive features in order to satisfy diehards but at some point you have to evolve. Keep in mind that BIS, "push" email, PIN messaging came before the time of super phones, fast mobile speeds, and unlimited data/messaging plans. Email can still be BB's bread and butter on the BB 10 platform, but maybe not in a highlighted state like on the legacy OS. The smartphone market has changed from five, six, seven years ago. No longer can you just tout email as a main feature. An important feature for sure, but not as important as the user experience or multimedia functions. Everyone knows BB can do email, but they needed to change the perception of the average consumer. There is still BES and BBM and other unique BB features (plus I'm sure fixes in future OS updates) but to think that email delivery changing making the Z10 "like any other phone" will hinder your ability to like it, is pretty foolish IMO. There are other features of the phone.

BB needs converts and average consumers to embrace BB10. If they don't, BB will continue to serve specific corners of the market and that is it.

[WillieLee]

I remember when the NOC went down for three days and everyone said, "That's okay because it's BIS and BIS is awesome!".

Do you want BlackBerry to keep BIS? Go give them $4 billion so they can keep pushing out OS7 devices to consumers that don't want them.

[AlexXF]

Whether a BlackBerry-specific data plan is required DOES depend on your carrier. However, it's a marketing requirement only and not a technical one. Your BlackBerry 10 device *will* work, including email and BBM, without any cellular service through Wifi (a carrier network is still needed for phone calls and SMS, of course).

This is not the answer and not the solution - to use WiFi instead of carrier network. Fact is a fact - it WILL not work over GSM if your service provider DOES NOT support Blackberry 10.

[b320]

This is not the answer and not the solution - to use WiFi instead of carrier network. Fact is a fact - it WILL not work over GSM if your service provider DOES NOT support Blackberry 10.

Your missing the point. It wasn't that you should use Wifi instead of cellular data. Of course, mobile data access is the way to go on a *mobile device* such as a BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

The point was that unlike before, when your access to full data services depended on having a SIM card associated with valid (read active and paid) BIS or BES service in your legacy BlackBerry device, all your BlackBerry 10 device needs for full functionality is a data pipe of any sort (currently cellular data or Wifi) as long as ports are not blocked. The network provider does NOT need to provide "special" provisioning for BlackBerry devices.

This takes away a lot of opportunity for providers to either treat BlackBerry subscribers as second-class or to overcharge them. This is a benefit to all of us.

As far as your final sentence, a BlackBerry 10 device will NOT work if a service provider outright BLOCKS BlackBerry 10 devices. This is opposed to the carrier have to actively "support" BlackBerry devices (like on legacy BlackBerry devices using Handheld Software 7.x and lower).

[raremage]

This is not the answer and not the solution - to use WiFi instead of carrier network. Fact is a fact - it WILL not work over GSM if your service provider DOES NOT support Blackberry 10.

It works on AT&T, a carrier that doesn't yet support BB10 devices. The fact is it simply works on any carrier that supports standard data transmission.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[lnichols]

BIS wasn't unlimited, how much data you get is dependent on your service provider

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

Yes and my carrier had unlimited data here in the US, and the option for unlimited with a $20 fee per month for travel outside the US.

[antikorr]

It seems until official BlackBerry response this whole mess is going to be a neverending story...

But still, here's some curious article, saying BB10 devices WILL ACTUALLY SUPPORT BIS. In Nigeria! Anyone willing to move to Africa? )))))

[eninrebmun]

I'm not reading this entire thread today... but I have followed many similar threads. My first reaction was to recoil in horror, then I read up on it and it seems to be *mostly* fine to me. I ended up setting up accounts on my Playbook's messaging application to give me the best idea of what i was in for. It's fine speed wise. I really would still like to see the carrier.blackberry.com site and services available. I made heavy use of the filters there to keep a lot of garbage from hitting my handheld. I use Gmail primarily, and using filters (skip inbox, mark as read) seems to be able to handle some of this, but not as reliably. I may need to monkey with settings a bit and perhaps it will be as good as it is now.

I will need to really sit down and spend the time and see what I am going to make from it. Either way I am not skipping out on BB10; worst case scenario is that we are in the same boat as users of other devices. (I'll still miss all that filtering from the blackberry configuration page.) If BlackBerry offered the service for a small fee directly to the consumer, I'd consider paying for it.

[ealvnv]

I would suggest you to play a bit witness Gmail filtering because believe me once you get the full set up on filtering it works wonders, the thing is that it might take you some tweaking to get the way you like but it is well worth it

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[eninrebmun]

I would suggest you to play a bit witness Gmail filtering because believe me once you get the full set up on filtering it works wonders, the thing is that it might take you some tweaking to get the way you like but it is well worth it

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

Not sure, but I think this was a reply to me. I do and have been (since 2004) making heavy use of all Gmail features; my filter setups are nuts on a couple of accounts. There was a time, in the past, where mail sent from my phone came back to my Blackberry as a message, so I used the BIS portal to filter that out. This may have been fixed; I recall it was a "thing" at one time that was causing headaches for people. The messages I have had set to mark as read, and skip inbox (archive) mostly don't trigger an alert. But not always. Gmail has come a long ways since I first started relying on the BIS portal to do a lot of the workarounds for me, so I'm hoping for the best. Ahhh first world problems. ;-)

(off topic: Do you not like Volkswagen Rabbits? Elmer kills Wabbits. Bad luck with VW? ;-) )