[ajaffarali]

Absolutely not. Without BB10, BlackBerry would just be another Android hardware manufacturer. They do an alright job with hardware, but they don't have any advantage over a company like HTC, and are extremely disadvantaged when compared to Samsung.

People buy the Z10 for the OS first. I'm happy with the hardware, but it's not cutting edge and not a reason to buy the phone over the GSIII. If you could get an android Z10, there's no reason to buy it over the GSIII because the software is basically the same.

BB10 is what is getting people interested in BBRY again, and was absolutely the right move to make. They just have to keep pushing hard on the top app developers and they will get there.

All great answers- thanks!

[dbmalloy]

Its simply a case of either being different and innovative or simply be hopelessly adrift in a sea of Android phones with nothing to differentiate your phone from another.... as mentioned....only Sammy see to be making any "real" money of Android....

[knowledge_6]

Now this is nice- great justifications with valid points to back your opinions.

why thank you ; >

i've had an S3 and N4 and even though they were different android phones .. they were the same.. don't get me wrong .. they are fun to use and are good devices.. obviously the companies have the hardware to back up the monolithic kernels and installing custom ROMS and Kernels help improve everything all around..

the feature i would like to see on BB10 is to save apps to the SD card ... so like android keep all files etc related to the app on the SD card..

[ajaffarali]

That would be ludicrous, and financial suicide for Blackberry.

Android is not profitable for most phone makers...they would have to compete against already well established top-tier Android makers (ex. Samsung).
They would have nothing to differentiate themselves...the "Android" market is saturated.

Android is not profitable because they're not selling enough units. Can you honestly say that the cost of research and development that BlackBerry is allocating towards BB10 development is less than what they would have had to pay to license and customize Android? I think not.

[Spencerdl]

Short answer NO. Variety is the spice of life, and thats a GOOD thing. My good friend still uses a dumb phone as his main device and when I asked him why, he replied........its EASY. The choices we have today for a mobile device is awesome, and the more choices consumers have the better. The last thing we need is to go back in history when everyone carried the same Motorola grey brick, theres is a mobile device for ALL walks of life .....lets keep it that way

[ajaffarali]

Just what do you think there would have been about a BlackBerry with Android that would have catapulted them ahead, or even close to, Samsung? I'll just go ahead and answer that for you, ok? Nothing. Nada. Zero. Zilch.

Dont you think that with a customized UI like BB10, BBM exclusivity and that killer keyboard that BlackBerry is famous for, they might have had an advantage over other Android manufacturers?

[anon3969612]

Bit late now for that conjecture... die is cast, phone and OS are launched, roadmap is clear.

There is Android availability through sideloading, been running custom apps on my PlayBook for over a year.

Now what if Lincoln had not been assassinated? Where would RIM/BB be then?

Cheers,

[anon(5639363)]

Dont you think that with a customized UI like BB10, BBM exclusivity and that killer keyboard that BlackBerry is famous for, they might have had an advantage over other Android manufacturers?

No, because other manufacturers had already long ago caught up to BlackBerry keyboards, BBM without BIS is really nothing special, and phones having a customizable UI are a dime a dozen now .

[ajaffarali]

No, because other manufacturers had already long ago caught up to BlackBerry keyboards, BBM without BIS is really nothing special, and phones having a customizable UI are a dime a dozen now .

While you may be right about the UI, I will disagree about the keyboard and BBM. I don't think any other manufacturer has been able to design a keyboard as good as the one by BlackBerry and BBM on my Z10 without BIS is still better than any other IM app I've used on any mobile.

[bbbruva]

I don't think a customized UI would have made much of a difference and BBM would have only been exclusive for a short while. People would have found a way to install it on other devices with it using the same base OS.

The problem is in that market with the same OS most people will tend to go with the best spec'd device and the reason that Samsung does so well is they have the infrastructure to source and manufacture the best hardware for less then most because they control the entire flow. BlackBerry has to outsource manufacturing of their hardware and components meaning that it actually costs them more to make a phone with the same specs (not really beneficial when trying to compete with the same OS).

So in regards to you comparing their research and development costs of BB10 to just adopting Android, yes, in the short term it would have been less expensive but the lack of differentiation would have definitely cost them their business. Also with the enterprise market looking at security if they went with Android there would be no reason for companies not to go with Samsung assuming they could make it just as secure. This company was thinking about the long run which is why they had to control and introduce their own OS, it will allow them to maintain differentiation and control over functionality and profitability as opposed to relying on the success of a fragmented platform.

Take Samsung for example, they're planning ahead as well and will eventually be moving away from Android as they introduce Tizen. They've built themselves to the point where their brand is more powerful and will be more powerful then Android itself meaning that they can phase into Tizen and gain developer support so that they can eliminate the need to rely on Android. BlackBerry did the right thing by making the smart yet tough decision to stand on their own it was the only way to move forward in the interest of long term success.

[_X_]

the resource hog that android is not efficient... the fact that android is a monolithic kernel vs QNX's micro kernel make a difference on efficiency and performance and how it handles background processes etc etc..

Actually you're incorrect. A monolithic kernel is consider by all means to be more efficient than a micro kernel, but not as secure because in a monolithic kernel the driver code resides in kernel space, where as in a micro kernel it's in user space. A micro kernel used IPC vs straight calls and queues which by nature is less efficient by design.

There is so much FUD and misinformation on this thread I can decifer if it's intentional or people are so misinformed.

_________________

My vote is no. BB is a dying platform they have nothing to offer and are playing catchup to everyone at this point. What is keeping them alive is their reputation for having a secure system.

With Apples and Microsoft extremely successful anti Android campaign and spreading as much FUD about Android's security, BB would have inherent that bad stigma by association. That would have eroded their corporate accounts for the short term. The long term they still have to worry about apple who is eating them up on the corporate world.

[Oscar_E]

I think not,

Media would crush BlackBerry, and there are lots of cheap devices with better or same specs as the Z10, the only thing we would still have on advantage would be BBM, which right now, is not the amazing feature it use to be.

I think BB did the right thing and it's on the right path, look at HTC UI (skin) now, it's a little like the BB10 approach.

[ajaffarali]

I don't think a customized UI would have made much of a difference and BBM would have only been exclusive for a short while. People would have found a way to install it on other devices with it using the same base OS.

The problem is in that market with the same OS most people will tend to go with the best spec'd device and the reason that Samsung does so well is they have the infrastructure to source and manufacture the best hardware for less then most because they control the entire flow. BlackBerry has to outsource manufacturing of their hardware and components meaning that it actually costs them more to make a phone with the same specs (not really beneficial when trying to compete with the same OS).

So in regards to you comparing their research and development costs of BB10 to just adopting Android, yes, in the short term it would have been less expensive but the lack of differentiation would have definitely cost them their business. Also with the enterprise market looking at security if they went with Android there would be no reason for companies not to go with Samsung assuming they could make it just as secure. This company was thinking about the long run which is why they had to control and introduce their own OS, it will allow them to maintain differentiation and control over functionality and profitability as opposed to relying on the success of a fragmented platform.

Take Samsung for example, they're planning ahead as well and will eventually be moving away from Android as they introduce Tizen. They've built themselves to the point where their brand is more powerful and will be more powerful then Android itself meaning that they can phase into Tizen and gain developer support so that they can eliminate the need to rely on Android. BlackBerry did the right thing by making the smart yet tough decision to stand on their own it was the only way to move forward in the interest of long term success.

Some great points there. But considering that military is allowing Android and Samsung is now going after the enterprise BlackBerry market with their Android devices, don't you think BlackBerry would have been in a better position as an Android player compared to other Android players. About Tizen, I'm not sure if that will ever pick up or not. Maybe on the lower end but I don't think anything above and beyond that. Google invests a lot more in Android and the constant struggle between Apple and Google makes Google play hard and progress Android faster.

[lnichols]

Nope. Look at the Security certifications that BB10 has already achieved in the US (before it even launched), and with the German government just this week. When you compare the security policies of BB10/Playbook to the policies for Android devices, it is clear that BlackBerry's certs are much more flexible in implementation than their Android competition. Also as we have already seen BlackBerry can utilized Android applications, and I would assume improvements are coming to that capability to provide an even greater level of support. So you get all of the security benefits of BB10, plus Android support. Plus right now Samsung is really the only OEM doing well with Android, all the other OEM's are having a hard time competing with them, and even Google is worried about Samsung's dominance with Android.

[Thunderbuck]

Dont you think that with a customized UI like BB10, BBM exclusivity and that killer keyboard that BlackBerry is famous for, they might have had an advantage over other Android manufacturers?

These are totally valid points, and my understanding is that RIM considered this option fairly closely.

Remember that BB10 hasn't gone according to the original plan, though. What was SUPPOSED to happen was that there was intended to be a Java runtime that would have allowed BBOS apps to run in QNX while what we now know as BB10 was in development. Had that happened, the "Colt" phone would have launched in late 2011, maybe early 2012, and we wouldn't have seen BB slide as far as it did.

The trouble was, the decision to discontinue work on this didn't happen until the Playbook was already out and a LOT of time and money had already been spent. At that point they'd painted themselves into a corner.

EDIT: BTW, while this question has been raised here countless times, I'll give you credit for raising the question in a thoughtful and constructive way. It's a worthwhile discussion.

[Masahiro]

You're advocating one less player in the marketplace to the detriment of the consumer. Why? If you want an Android, there's already plenty of choices. BlackBerry spends a lot on R&D. Why is that a bad thing?

[allengeorge]

Tough call. There are many advantages to going with Android:

1. Android has momentum
2. There are tons of apps
3. If you buy into the Google ecosystem, Google is doing tons of changes to make the non-mobile and mobile experience more seamless

There are, of course, many disadvantages as well, including:

1. In many ways Android is the brand, not device manufacturers
2. Hard to differentiate oneself
3. Why should people pick a BB Android over a Samsung one?

I'm not sure BBRY could have made it as an Android OEM. The problem right now is:

1. BB does not have a product with a compelling hook to draw droves of people into their new platform
2. Because of 1) very few devs are making apps for BB
3. Because of 2) it's hard to gain momentum and 'make' it against iOS, Android, and yes, even WP8

[glamrlama]

Just to clarify; BlackBerry never "adopted" BB10. They built it from scratch using QNX.

[ajaffarali]

Nope. Look at the Security certifications that BB10 has already achieved in the US (before it even launched), and with the German government just this week. When you compare the security policies of BB10/Playbook to the policies for Android devices, it is clear that BlackBerry's certs are much more flexible in implementation than their Android competition. Also as we have already seen BlackBerry can utilized Android applications, and I would assume improvements are coming to that capability to provide an even greater level of support. So you get all of the security benefits of BB10, plus Android support. Plus right now Samsung is really the only OEM doing well with Android, all the other OEM's are having a hard time competing with them, and even Google is worried about Samsung's dominance with Android.

Good points! I completely agree that BB is wonderful with security but don't you think it's just a matter of catchup? I don't know this so wondering- are these policies enforced through BES or baked into the OS? What I'm wondering is if, through software and services, BES could be tied to Android and certified like a BlackBerry?

[ajaffarali]

You're advocating one less player in the marketplace to the detriment of the consumer. Why? If you want an Android, there's already plenty of choices. BlackBerry spends a lot on R&D. Why is that a bad thing?

Definitely not saying it's a bad thing- quite the opposite. But is it a smart thing for the company to survive? Had BB10 come out 2 years back, or even last year, I think it would have made sense in every way. But sadly BlackBerry has fallen so far behind that I'm left wondering if they have the resources (financially) to rebuild on a 1.0 product.

[bbbruva]

Some great points there. But considering that military is allowing Android and Samsung is now going after the enterprise BlackBerry market with their Android devices, don't you think BlackBerry would have been in a better position as an Android player compared to other Android players. About Tizen, I'm not sure if that will ever pick up or not. Maybe on the lower end but I don't think anything above and beyond that. Google invests a lot more in Android and the constant struggle between Apple and Google makes Google play hard and progress Android faster.

That's exactly my point.. Samsung is going after the enterprise space and is having to go through the process of convincing these entities that it can be as secure as BB, if BB went to Android then BB would be helping Samsung prove that point doing half the work for their competitor. That wouldn't seem like a smart business move.

[ajaffarali]

Tough call. There are many advantages to going with Android:

1. Android has momentum
2. There are tons of apps
3. If you buy into the Google ecosystem, Google is doing tons of changes to make the non-mobile and mobile experience more seamless

There are, of course, many disadvantages as well, including:

1. In many ways Android is the brand, not device manufacturers
2. Hard to differentiate oneself
3. Why should people pick a BB Android over a Samsung one?

I'm not sure BBRY could have made it as an Android OEM. The problem right now is:

1. BB does not have a product with a compelling hook to draw droves of people into their new platform
2. Because of 1) very few devs are making apps for BB
3. Because of 2) it's hard to gain momentum and 'make' it against iOS, Android, and yes, even WP8

Great points- keep 'em coming. With regards to Android being the brand, I think Google is losing it. Look at Amazon and Samsung- both using Android but getting more popular as "Galaxy" and "Kindle" devices and not Android devices. Couldn't BlackBerry pull this off? Also there is not one awesome Android phone with a hardware keyboard- BlackBerry could have differentiated itself by using that for it's advantage. As to why people pick BB over Samsung, again, I think plenty of brand loyalty still exists for BB.

[ajaffarali]

That's exactly my point.. Samsung is going after the enterprise space and is having to go through the process of convincing these entities that it can be as secure as BB, if BB went to Android then BB would be helping Samsung prove that point doing half the work for their competitor. That wouldn't seem like a smart business move.

Maybe using a dedicated hardware chip and making that as a selling point could have worked? People already trust BlackBerry and then by saying that we have this that no other Android manufacturer has could have possibly worked?

[canuckvoip]

Absolutely no freaking way should BB have gone with Android!
I have completely and utterly un-Googled myself. I refuse to be their unpaid sales person. I have no gmail, no gmaps, no gtalk, no gdrive, no nothing from Google. I do not use Google as my search engine either. I will not add myself to their massive database anymore. And... I will never let Google drive my car, and if I see some ***** geek viewing me with Glass I will leave if they don't remove them. Can you imagine it being OK to have zombies running around recording you without permission? This is sick.
BB for me.

[nemo7]

Never!!! I buy a Z10 becaouse of QNX and the smoothness and security. Android? Never!! Laggy, fragmantation,Thausends same devices, and now i dont like google anymore.
And if you say Android Jeally Bean is not Laggy, u know what? It is definitly Laggy. My sis have a SG3 and jeally Bean, its even Laggy with Quadcore?? I was really disapointed about it because i thougt SG3 is really smooth.
Bb10 for ever.

My Choice:
1.Bb10
2.iOS
3.WP
4.BB7
5.BB6
7. Maybe Android.