11-01-18 09:53 AM
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  1. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    So the naysayers said Google would never allow Blackberry to continue with BB10 AND be able to use Google Android. Well we all know that monopolies or duopolies (Google/Apple) get to be in precarious positions because of that fact. Now that EU ruled against Google, Android Mfgrs can exclude Chrome, Google search, or even Play etc from their phones. Its not a stretch to say BB could have continued with BB10 phones and play with Google at the same time....or could have included an updated Android runtime within Bb10! It was possible!
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/1..._licencing_eu/

    So in theory BB could launch bb10 with latest android sandbox in Europe tomorrow morning (minus the development work needed of course).
    10-19-18 01:40 AM
  2. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Of course Amazon itself might be free to make changes and Bb10 would continue with Amazon Android/Fire version...updated.
    But I think BB10 is best positioned as a working OS to take advantage of this crack in Google and still be able to use Android.

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/18/...ission-lawsuit
    10-19-18 02:34 AM
  3. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    10-19-18 02:50 AM
  4. co4nd's Avatar
    I expect this to be as productive as when the EU forced Microsoft to remove IE from Windows versioned sold in Europe. If it does have teeth I wouldn't be to surprized if Google takes their services and ecosystem to a new proprietary OS. Without Google's development and Services android is nothing.

    Doesn't matter for BB10 though it's dead and buried and Its owners don't want anything to do with it anymore.
    10-19-18 02:59 AM
  5. kvndoom's Avatar
    hey had this happened 7 or 8 years ago, and not been restricted to just one region, then maybe.

    But it's 2018, the last BB10 phone was made in 2015, and it has zero relevance to most of the world. but congratulations, you win!
    glwerry likes this.
    10-19-18 06:59 AM
  6. thurask's Avatar
    So in theory BB could launch bb10 with latest android sandbox in Europe tomorrow morning (minus the development work needed of course).
    And if you bothered to read the original Google blog post:

    "Going forward, Android partners wishing to distribute Google apps may also build non-compatible, or forked, smartphones and tablets for the European Economic Area (EEA).

    These new licensing options will come into effect on October 29, 2018, for all new smartphones and tablets launched in the EEA."

    Antique phones sold outside of Europe aren't covered by the new agreement. To restart BB10 production immediately just for Europe has the same likelihood as eating the sun with a spoon.
    app_Developer and glwerry like this.
    10-19-18 07:07 AM
  7. skrble's Avatar
    You don't seem to be able to see that BB10 was NOT commercially successful at the first place.

    Nothing else really matters.

    Some persistent BB10 die-hards claim that they haven't used any Android apps on their OS10 devices. A bit of inconsistency here?

    It failed. That's it.
    10-19-18 07:54 AM
  8. kvndoom's Avatar
    You don't seem to be able to see that BB10 was NOT commercially successful at the first place.

    Nothing else really matters.

    Some persistent BB10 die-hards claim that they haven't used any Android apps on their OS10 devices. A bit of inconsistency here?

    It failed. That's it.
    Yeah, this needed to have happened in 2010 or 2011, when BB10 was still in development. Then things could have been different... maybe... I would have loved to see a more competitive phone market, where any OS could have a full app library.

    But 3 years after its discontinuation? 13 months before official EOL? Pyrrhic victory.
    10-19-18 09:33 AM
  9. Blackberryphosphamide's Avatar
    So in theory BB could launch bb10 with latest android sandbox in Europe tomorrow morning (minus the development work needed of course).
    Let's say then that hypothetically it could be done, even with the market limitations that Thurask has mentioned. For a future BB QNX-based mobile operating system to be successful and financially viable it would have to offer something that iOS and Android currently do not. If you're hypothesising that we could have a BB11 mobile OS with complete and unhindered use of everything in the Android catalogue then how would you envision it compared to what we currently have available?
    10-19-18 10:07 AM
  10. iled's Avatar
    If the point of discussion is that it could have been different, then there is much to be discussed. If it is about what can happen in the future, regarding BB, then I'd have to agree this would make no change.

    Now, to further the discussion if the first point above is correct.

    The fact that it is market specific would not be a huge limitation. See, for example, that Optiemus or Merah Putih are making market specific devices. I'd say the entire EEA market is a significant slice of the global market (humble guess, I didn't look for numbers). Furthermore, I believe that in the past 3-5 years most phones sold in Europe are compatible with US GSM bands, at least, partially, so a fan could buy from overseas.
    10-19-18 10:40 AM
  11. kvndoom's Avatar
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018...r-phone-in-eu/

    So... to sum it up: on the Android side of things, phone manufacturers will have to pay google from $2.50 up to $40 per device to not have the default google install. This OEM increase will of course be passed on to customers, with appropriate markup, so a non-compliant phone will cost notably more than a compliant phone. Most consumers will appropriately buy the cheaper phone that looks and specs exactly like the pricier "google lite" phone. The "google lite" phones will get discontinued, and in the end nothing will have changed.

    From the non-Android side, alternative OS customers will have to pay more for the device to have access to google apps (including the Play Store, which is all this is about anyway). Few if any phone makers will bite.
    Fret Madden likes this.
    10-19-18 01:28 PM
  12. Fret Madden's Avatar
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018...r-phone-in-eu/

    So... to sum it up: on the Android side of things, phone manufacturers will have to pay google from $2.50 up to $40 per device to not have the default google install. This OEM increase will of course be passed on to customers, with appropriate markup, so a non-compliant phone will cost notably more than a compliant phone. Most consumers will appropriately buy the cheaper phone that looks and specs exactly like the pricier "google lite" phone. The "google lite" phones will get discontinued, and in the end nothing will have changed.

    From the non-Android side, alternative OS customers will have to pay more for the device to have access to google apps (including the Play Store, which is all this is about anyway). Few if any phone makers will bite.
    Clarification: Android with Google Play Store sans Google apps. Amazon Fire OS and Fire phone are a good example of what happens when manufacturers go Google-free.
    john_v likes this.
    10-19-18 02:26 PM
  13. Ment's Avatar
    was never going to happen before, never going to happen now. Nothing has changed. If you really think BB was going to pay $40 for such an option back then , then go back to smoking your favorite.

    Who knew all the info Google collects to target paid ads to people was actually worth something.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    10-19-18 03:16 PM
  14. gruv4u's Avatar
    ALL BB10 devices are officially collectors items. Enjoy them until they are useless.

    Until that day comes, I will keepusing my...

     AT&T Passport SQW100-3 with vitamin (SR) 10.3.3.2129 (OS version 10.3.3.3204) on AT&T
    ppeters914 and The_Passporter like this.
    10-19-18 03:45 PM
  15. johnb_xp's Avatar
    Don't forget that technically BlackBerry doesn't make or update android phones anymore, since TCL is in charge of new BB Phones.
    They could bring back the BB10 runtime, but it'd be expensive and probably pointless from their viewpoint.
    10-19-18 08:27 PM
  16. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar

    These new licensing options will come into effect on October 29, 2018, for all new smartphones and tablets launched in the EEA."

    Antique phones sold outside of Europe aren't covered by the new agreement. To restart BB10 production immediately just for Europe has the same likelihood as eating the sun with a spoon.
    Well technically we do eat the sun with a spoon...through crops and livestock...so what you're really saying is theres a chance...wow!... I never thought you'd agree.

    Slap a new model name on it and relaunch technically makes it a "new" phone. Like you know apple and samsung do somethimes with a few minor tinkerings.
    But yes, this would probably have to be a TCL initiative, unless one of the other licenscees or a new one stepped up. Far as I can tell nothing feels antiquey about bb10 even now. Dropped support fine, but if you have the android run-time and needs those apps...no problem.

    The beauty is in the fact that those not wanting google tracking would have a viable option, along with the usually bb10 security features.
    10-19-18 09:48 PM
  17. Fret Madden's Avatar
    .The beauty is in the fact that those not wanting google tracking would have a viable option, along with the usually bb10 security features.
    Incorrect. Android apps installed on BB10 are subject to all permissions granted, there is no user control to disable them. Google specifically won't be tracking outside search (if it's used) as there are no Google apps on board a BB10 device.
    10-19-18 10:10 PM
  18. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    ....exactly ...there are no google apps on bb10 devices. So there is no option today - when there was one yesterday. But this makes it a possibility again tomorrow. Who knows with dtek like properties added to Android runtime on BB10 phone and more granular control there are possibilities.
    10-20-18 12:33 AM
  19. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    $40, $20 or $2 small price to pay if you don't want Google tracking i would say or if you wanted an updated but restrictable Google Android sandbox in BB10 (that alone would have been a distinguishing feature not avaiable on other Android phones). Clearly an option . But the point is killing off a bb10 shouldn't have been able to have been dictated by Google in order to permit the Android PRIV to be sold in late 2015....that point of contractual exclusion might get the monopoly in hot water as it should have back in the day when microsoft actually got away (for a while) with changing pc manufacturers whether they installed windows or not on their pc's (like when they used Linux instead for some percentage of their production)
    10-20-18 03:32 AM
  20. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Then again you can look at the $40 or $20 licence fee proposition inside out, and say...hey WOW! That's a small price to get BB10 on a phone again!
    10-20-18 03:38 AM
  21. Fret Madden's Avatar
    $40, $20 or $2 small price to pay if you don't want Google tracking i would say or if you wanted an updated but restrictable Google Android sandbox in BB10 (that alone would have been a distinguishing feature not avaiable on other Android phones). Clearly an option . But the point is killing off a bb10 shouldn't have been able to have been dictated by Google in order to permit the Android PRIV to be sold in late 2015....that point of contractual exclusion might get the monopoly in hot water as it should have back in the day when microsoft actually got away (for a while) with changing pc manufacturers whether they installed windows or not on their pc's (like when they used Linux instead for some percentage of their production)
    We've been over this for going on 4 years now. BlackBerry can't update the runtime. Period. Unless they want to stop producing their current software. But it's making them money, so fat chance of that.
    10-20-18 05:46 AM
  22. Fret Madden's Avatar
    Then again you can look at the $40 or $20 licence fee proposition inside out, and say...hey WOW! That's a small price to get BB10 on a phone again!
    I wouldn't pay extra over the price of any phone for any reason.
    10-20-18 05:47 AM
  23. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Google could have used plenty of other ways to secure Android apps (at least those placed in the Play Store) to prevent them from running on other OSs, and most developers were only going to support 2 platforms regardless. Ultimately, nothing would have changed. BB10 never had a long-term future without full support of NATIVE apps - and they never had a chance of having that. Nor did WinPhone or WebOS or any of the others, for reasons we've been talking about for nearly a decade.
    Fret Madden and Mecca EL like this.
    10-20-18 12:12 PM
  24. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Well sure if you want a hamburger you won't pay more, but if you are really looking for a cheeseburger (bb10) of course you'll pay a bit more.....okay okay that's unfair to QNX and BB10.....so how about intead...if you are looking for a Juicy steak sandwich on a toasted french baguette....then of course you'll pay more.
    10-20-18 06:10 PM
  25. conite's Avatar
    Well sure if you want a hamburger you won't pay more, but if you are really looking for a cheeseburger (bb10) of course you'll pay a bit more.....okay okay that's unfair to QNX and BB10.....so how about intead...if you are looking for a Juicy steak sandwich on a toasted french baguette....then of course you'll pay more.
    A juicy steak sandwich with no bread, no condiments, nowhere to eat it, and nothing to grill it on.
    10-20-18 06:25 PM
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