1. dreamz_gaurav's Avatar

    UNder normal circumstances, yes. But as I said in my first statement, the rumor mill has reached a level of madness, that clear statements have become a neccessity, to prevent further damage. Unless they WANT to let BB10 die, or unless they are not sure yet what exactly they are going to do.
    After a certain point of time, you need to come out and speak. Sometimes it's required to preserve the confidence of your customers.

    Z30 / STA100-2 /10.3.2.2639
    Blacklatino likes this.
    09-03-15 10:48 AM
  2. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    So last week I also had a meeting with a few BlackBerry reps to discuss Watchdox and BES12. While they would not comment on any of the rumors. They did say pretty emphatically that bb10 is not will it continue be supported but is very much in development. I followed up with a question about the runtime and bb10 which everyone here seems to think they will have to rip out it out if they do want an Android device capable of Google Play Services. They told me the runtime will continue to be a part of the BB10 OS but not expect android apps to run with BlackBerry Balance any time soon.

    Take this with a grain of salt but hopefully this is true. '

    Posted via CB10
    I have asked my developer contacts about the future of BB10 development. There is nothing that they can say publicly other than they will "support" it. So if they cannot tell developers the future of BB10, all the reps, support and sales people who state otherwise telling otherwise are just a sales pitch.
    09-03-15 10:56 AM
  3. GoodInfo's Avatar
    If the rumors are plausible, what speculation is there regarding current bb10 devices?

    Would there be a possibility for a different OS (Android) for the q10, classic, z30, etc to run?

    Just a question

    Posted via CB10
    09-03-15 11:14 AM
  4. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Your thoughts are a theoretical possibility, but I wouldn't bet a penny on it to happen. Why should they invest a lot of money (=significant changes) into a platform that has failed to attract an audience large enough for them to survive as a smartphone maker or to attract enough developers to keep on brewing their own stuff?
    Some really try to clutch every straw instead of realizing what's more obvious.
    I'm not clutching at straws, just pointing out that while people are engaged in speculation, negative speculation is not necessarily trump. There are many reasons why they would continue work on BB10 even though sales of BB10 handsets are not directly profitable. Fleet device sales to large enterprise customers, as some pointed out. Chen has stated that he needs to be in the handset business to offer the best end to end security solutions. If the best end to end security solutions could be done with Android phones BlackBerry doesn't need to be in the handset business at all. So why waste good money on coming out with an Android based BlackBerry?

    I'm honest enough to admit I don't know what they are going to do. I'm not willing to bet on your scenario either because it fails to adequately explain some key facts and things that I know on NDA.

    If BlackBerry is going to be in the handset business at all there are many reasons to continue BB10 development. What there has never been a good reason to do is broadcast their every move six months in advance.

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.2.2252 SR 10.3.2.2168
    ZeBB45, Allanon89 and Vistaus like this.
    09-03-15 12:13 PM
  5. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I'm not clutching at straws, just pointing out that while people are engaged in speculation, negative speculation is not necessarily trump. There are many reasons why they would continue work on BB10 even though sales of BB10 handsets are not directly profitable. Fleet device sales to large enterprise customers, as some pointed out. Chen has stated that he needs to be in the handset business to offer the best end to end security solutions. If the best end to end security solutions could be done with Android phones BlackBerry doesn't need to be in the handset business at all. So why waste good money on coming out with an Android based BlackBerry?

    I'm honest enough to admit I don't know what they are going to do. I'm not willing to bet on your scenario either because it fails to adequately explain some key facts and things that I know on NDA.

    If BlackBerry is going to be in the handset business at all there are many reasons to continue BB10 development. What there has never been a good reason to do is broadcast their every move six months in advance.

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.2.2252 SR 10.3.2.2168
    Problem is that they have stopped working on BB10. We would know without a doubt if they were updating Qt to version 5 because of the nature of Qt development. They are not so it pretty much says that BlackBerry has abandoned BlackBerry 10 development.
    09-03-15 03:30 PM
  6. BCITMike's Avatar
    I think BlackBerry 10 will live on, but what you have now is what will be there three years ago. BB10 will be the new PlayBook OS and BBOS7. Alive but stagnant.
    Does not compute. Did you mean "from now" instead of "ago"?

    Posted via CB10
    09-03-15 03:38 PM
  7. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Problem is that they have stopped working on BB10. We would know without a doubt if they were updating Qt to version 5 because of the nature of Qt development. They are not so it pretty much says that BlackBerry has abandoned BlackBerry 10 development.
    You always keep mentioning Qt but that's not a requirement for an OS update... did they update their Qt support between 10.0 and 10.3.2? It's been the same since no?

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2339
    09-03-15 04:12 PM
  8. parbrook's Avatar
    I would LIKE to believe the OP.
    What explanation do you have, on why BB does not make a clear statement on BB10 having a future? IF there IS a future?
    For the same reason that manufacturers of pies do not issue a statement to say that they do not put mice in their pies.
    09-03-15 04:23 PM
  9. gnirkatto's Avatar
    For the same reason that manufacturers of pies do not issue a statement to say that they do not put mice in their pies.
    Well, if I was a manufacturer of pies, and many of my customers would speculate in the public about mice in my pies, I'd rather issue such a statement or I'll be out of business soon.

    Posted via CB10
    09-03-15 04:42 PM
  10. mhw100's Avatar
    I just can't believe that they release the SE on 3.2 BB10 in late August and then suddenly stop supporting it to work to support Android for the slider and future devices coming out in November. That just doesn't seem logical. Surely they will have 3.3 for the existing devices that aren't EOL.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    09-03-15 04:44 PM
  11. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Problem is that they have stopped working on BB10. We would know without a doubt if they were updating Qt to version 5 because of the nature of Qt development. They are not so it pretty much says that BlackBerry has abandoned BlackBerry 10 development.
    It proves nothing other than they are not currently working on upgrading Cascades to Qt 5. Given the corner TAT painted them into by making Cascades so incompatible with Qt this is an unfortunate but understandable situation.

    If the are going to continue to advance with Qt they need to go full on Qt 5 as the UI. If they are going to continue with Cascades they need to come to the realization that they would then be truly supporting their own unique UI which is a fork of Qt. Probably not the best choice. But then neither is switching horses to standard Qt with the current development tools.

    This is one of the major issues facing them. One solution is of course killing BB10 and switching to Android. That might increase their market share among consumers, but that is by no means guaranteed. Another solution is put the current version of BB10 in maintenance mode while they decide what to do then bring the needed tooling changes online. If they dispense with Momentics for native gui development and go with full up Qt 5 tools they get several wins. There are of course other things they can do. But what ever they are planning on, or think is the most likely, they would be foolish to announce it before they are ready to pivot.

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.2.2252 SR 10.3.2.2168
    BCITMike likes this.
    09-03-15 04:45 PM
  12. BCITMike's Avatar
    Well, if I was a manufacturer of pies, and many of my customers would speculate in the public about mice in my pies, I'd rather issue such a statement or I'll be out of business soon.

    Posted via CB10
    Richard Gere has had a pretty successful career, gerbil rumours or not. Said by many publicists, you don't ever comment on it, just ignore it and don't give it any measure of credibility. It has never gone away, but the Hollywood publicists do this for a living and know far more than us on handling public image.

    Ha, then there is the Barbara Streisand effect.
    09-03-15 06:48 PM
  13. kvndoom's Avatar
    I heard a rumour that BB 10 will be discontinued. BB 11 will be released, except it will be called BB XI and, strangely, pronouced 'Bee Bee Zed' except for in the USA where it will be 'Bee Bee Zee.' It will run on Skylake architecture, it will be Android and IOS and WinPhone 10. Devices will be foldable and sport flexible OLED displays. There will be a full desktop experience available if you dock it. It will be completely malware proof and feature an AI that goes far beyond being an 'assistant'--it will become your friend. Higher end models will ship with built-in projectors and e-ink folding covers. They will be made of a single block of titanium with diamond coated screens and they will also be able to reliably load facebook posts.

    No word on new emojis.
    But still no Lithuanian.
    Korla_Plankton likes this.
    09-03-15 07:20 PM
  14. int19's Avatar
    Wait, I'm confused: why do we even need an update to BBOS?

    It does what I need it to do. It works the same as when I bought it. It's reliable and there are no bugs I'm desperate to have fixed.

    I run Windows 7 on my PC and it still works great, despite being six years old. Besides security updates, that hasn't seen a great deal of new features added, yet it does what I need it to do. The operating system should be a stable base on which applications and drivers can be deployed to introduce additional features, not a constantly shifting target.

    By comparison, Mac OS X has moved to a yearly release cycle, and every year I battle with new bugs and incompatibility as a result of the often significant changes - changes which rarely help me deal with the task at hand any more effectively.


    So why the obsession as to whether development is ongoing? My phone works just as it is. Like all technology, it will eventually become obsolete as new standards are introduced.

    Posted via CB10
    09-03-15 08:47 PM
  15. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Does not compute. Did you mean "from now" instead of "ago"?

    Posted via CB10
    Sorry. I meant from now. Thanks
    09-03-15 10:00 PM
  16. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    You always keep mentioning Qt but that's not a requirement for an OS update... did they update their Qt support between 10.0 and 10.3.2? It's been the same since no?

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2339
    Actually it is a requirement. BB10 is built on Qt. The version of Qt is 4.8 which is EOL in December. Qt 4.8 is no longer being patched and no more fixes are coming. If there is something new for the OS and there is a bug, it won't be fixed. To move BlackBerry 10 forward with new feature and newer technologies, BB10 needs to be updated to Qt5.
    09-03-15 10:03 PM
  17. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    It proves nothing other than they are not currently working on upgrading Cascades to Qt 5. Given the corner TAT painted them into by making Cascades so incompatible with Qt this is an unfortunate but understandable situation.

    If the are going to continue to advance with Qt they need to go full on Qt 5 as the UI. If they are going to continue with Cascades they need to come to the realization that they would then be truly supporting their own unique UI which is a fork of Qt. Probably not the best choice. But then neither is switching horses to standard Qt with the current development tools.

    This is one of the major issues facing them. One solution is of course killing BB10 and switching to Android. That might increase their market share among consumers, but that is by no means guaranteed. Another solution is put the current version of BB10 in maintenance mode while they decide what to do then bring the needed tooling changes online. If they dispense with Momentics for native gui development and go with full up Qt 5 tools they get several wins. There are of course other things they can do. But what ever they are planning on, or think is the most likely, they would be foolish to announce it before they are ready to pivot.

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.2.2252 SR 10.3.2.2168
    So as I said, BlackBerry 10 is right now a dead end.

    Question for you. Have you programmed in Cascades?
    09-03-15 10:06 PM
  18. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Actually it is a requirement. BB10 is built on Qt. The version of Qt is 4.8 which is EOL in December. Qt 4.8 is no longer being patched and no more fixes are coming. If there is something new for the OS and there is a bug, it won't be fixed. To move BlackBerry 10 forward with new feature and newer technologies, BB10 needs to be updated to Qt5.
    It's actually worse than that. BB10 is built with Cascades which is essentially a fork of Qt 4.8, but not compatible with Qt 4.8 in many important ways.

    BlackBerry can either continue development of Cascades, but as Bluenoser points out they would have to do all their own updates and bug fixes. They could toss out Cascades and go with strait up Qt. That would be another big development change for native BB10 developers, but and porting all the BlackBerry Cascades aps to Qt. Or they could do something else. Favorite theory here is toss BB10 and go Android.

    Z10STL100-3/10.3.2.2252 SR 10.3.2.2168
    09-03-15 10:13 PM
  19. int19's Avatar
    So Qt 4.8 is EOL, and therefore won't receive bug fixes. Qt 5.0 isn't EOL and will receive bug fixes.

    So the inference is that Qt 5.0 will have less bugs than Qt 4.8?

    All those people and companies that clung to Windows XP had a less stable experience than those on Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 10?

    "Supported" does not necessarily mean "more reliable".

    Posted via CB10
    09-03-15 10:24 PM
  20. BrooklynBerryAddict's Avatar
    Wait, is this sentence missing some words which might clarify it? Sorry if it's just me not understanding.
    Yup I left out only. fixed it.

    Thanks.

    Posted via CB10
    Allanon89 likes this.
    09-03-15 10:47 PM
  21. will308's Avatar
    Believe the average user. Does it make them all right?

    If BlackBerry's dead, it dead to them and them only. I guess they've got that iPhone to far shoved up somewhere to realize what's going on around them.

    this is so true lol ............

    TMO  Z10,STL100-3/10.2.1.2156
    09-04-15 12:44 AM
  22. Doggerz's Avatar
    If OS 7.1 is any indication, I don't think there will be any BB10 OS updates. I haven't had an update on my Torch in years.

    There will be updates though. They'll continue to try to nickel and dime people on BB10 and other platforms with stickers and subscriptions to things that should be free on BBM.

    Z30STA100-5 / 10.3.2.2339 / T-Mobile USA
    09-04-15 12:57 AM
  23. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    There are many reasons why they would continue work on BB10 even though sales of BB10 handsets are not directly profitable.
    The question is: what does "continue work" mean? BB10 needs at least something like 1 big update a year. Android runtime and Cascades need overhauls to be competitive. Something like a 10.3.3, 10.3.4 etc. is not sufficient to keep the platform alive. It's just a delay of its death.

    If the best end to end security solutions could be done with Android phones BlackBerry doesn't need to be in the handset business at all.
    That's why Chen will have a lot of things to explain when the Android Slider arrives. The switch to Android isn't necessarily a savior for Blackberry.

    So why waste good money on coming out with an Android based BlackBerry?
    Because the market doesn't want BB10 devices or more precisely: not enough. Why waste good money and keep a platform alive that has failed?

    If BlackBerry is going to be in the handset business at all there are many reasons to continue BB10 development.
    Success is obviously not one of them.

    What there has never been a good reason to do is broadcast their every move six months in advance.
    At least devs have to know what's going on in the near future. Why? No dev has to fear that iOS or Android are EOL at some point in the next years, Blackberry is clearly the loser of the smartphone wars. If they had a roadmap to save BB10 they'd better present it instead of telling devs to switch to Android.

    I just can't believe that they release the SE on 3.2 BB10 in late August and then suddenly stop supporting it to work to support Android for the slider and future devices coming out in November. That just doesn't seem logical. Surely they will have 3.3 for the existing devices that aren't EOL.
    Yeah, I think 10.3.3 will be out at some point.
    But: Do you really think another small update is enough to save BB10s future?

    Another solution is put the current version of BB10 in maintenance mode while they decide what to do then bring the needed tooling changes online. If they dispense with Momentics for native gui development and go with full up Qt 5 tools they get several wins.
    You really think devs would be interested in supporting another new platform by Blackberry which is most likely DOA?

    There are of course other things they can do. But what ever they are planning on, or think is the most likely, they would be foolish to announce it before they are ready to pivot
    It can't be more foolish than telling devs to switch to Android and leave the future of BB10 completely in the dark. If BB10 had a future this behaviour wouldn't make sense at all because it urges devs and (potential) customers to leave the platform aside.
    Last edited by Maxxxpower; 09-04-15 at 02:27 AM.
    09-04-15 02:04 AM
  24. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Until I can actually read a full operational agreement (DOD) with whatever OS you'd like, I'll bet my pants that BB10 will not only live but upgrade.
    But my pants only worth 2cents
    highos likes this.
    09-04-15 04:43 AM
  25. RubenDM's Avatar
    Until I can actually read a full operational agreement (DOD) with whatever OS you'd like, I'll bet my pants that BB10 will not only live but upgrade.
    But my pants only worth 2cents
    Add my pants to that and we'll be at 4cents!

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    09-04-15 05:06 AM
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