12-13-15 03:01 AM
97 123 ...
tools
  1. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    I've read a lot of threads about android and rooting, and here's my take.

    You SHOULD be able to root your device, but not the way it happens with android.

    Android is garbage, because it's bad UNIX.

    If you root an android device, from what I can tell, you then have to run it as root.

    UNIX is made to have root accounts. It's how YOU take full control of your device. It's how you control firewalls, permissions, and all that stuff that prevents anyone else from controlling your device or data. You should be able to log into a root level account and take control of your device to keep out the Googles and even the BlackBerry's of this world.

    And when you're done working with the high level administrative stuff, you should be able to log in as a regular user again, so that no administrative changes can be made inadvertantly, or by anyone else without you knowing. That's how desktop linux works, and it's how our phones should work too.

    Android is designed not to allow you to do this. Google gets to be your administrator. They have root control. BB10 is designed not to allow you to do this. BlackBerry serves as administrator (as does your local IT department if your phone is on BES).

    I want control of my own device, and when it comes time to get my next one, I won't compromise. Not to Google, BlackBerry, Microsoft, or anyone else. I guess that's going to limit my choices, but I'll check out Replicant, LuneOS, Firefox OS, Ubuntu's Phone OS, etc., and find something that I can control. I would urge the rest of you here to do the same.
    Gerii, nah.uhh, Xaiux and 6 others like this.
    08-27-15 10:23 PM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Good rant. Would read again.
    anon(8063781) and flyingsolid like this.
    08-27-15 10:26 PM
  3. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    So are you intentionally going to block all ip addresses coming from Google, Microsoft and BlackBerry??? Otherwise this rant is kinda hmm. A fail.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2339
    ppeters914 likes this.
    08-27-15 10:36 PM
  4. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    So are you intentionally going to block all ip addresses coming from Google, Microsoft and BlackBerry??? Otherwise this rant is kinda hmm. A fail.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2339
    Where did I ever say that?
    08-27-15 10:42 PM
  5. The_Passporter's Avatar
    Not sure what's available on thos platforms you mentioned but I doubt they have any apps to sooth the app hungry user. Like good camera apps or a banking app etc....

    How does iPhones jailbreak work? You didn't mention that on and I am interested in the dirty details.

    Posted via CB10
    08-27-15 11:24 PM
  6. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I've read a lot of threads about android and rooting, and here's my take.

    You SHOULD be able to root your device, but not the way it happens with android.

    Android is garbage, because it's bad UNIX.

    If you root an android device, from what I can tell, you then have to run it as root.

    UNIX is made to have root accounts. It's how YOU take full control of your device. It's how you control firewalls, permissions, and all that stuff that prevents anyone else from controlling your device or data. You should be able to log into a root level account and take control of your device to keep out the Googles and even the BlackBerry's of this world.

    And when you're done working with the high level administrative stuff, you should be able to log in as a regular user again, so that no administrative changes can be made inadvertantly, or by anyone else without you knowing. That's how desktop linux works, and it's how our phones should work too.

    Android is designed not to allow you to do this. Google gets to be your administrator. They have root control. BB10 is designed not to allow you to do this. BlackBerry serves as administrator (as does your local IT department if your phone is on BES).

    I want control of my own device, and when it comes time to get my next one, I won't compromise. Not to Google, BlackBerry, Microsoft, or anyone else. I guess that's going to limit my choices, but I'll check out Replicant, LuneOS, Firefox OS, Ubuntu's Phone OS, etc., and find something that I can control. I would urge the rest of you here to do the same.
    There are utilities that allow one to root and unroot devices. The Nexus devices are some of the easiest to do this with.

    But it could definitely be more convenient for those that want it.

    Once rooted, I'd like to keep it that way.
    anon(8063781) likes this.
    08-28-15 12:12 AM
  7. akavbb's Avatar
    If you root it then you lose it.
    I don't know if you know what I mean.


    Posted via my STL100-2 | Waiting for the mighty Squircle to return
    08-28-15 12:50 AM
  8. to boldly go's Avatar
    The whole point of 'rooting' does not even exist with a BlackBerry. If you want a different kind of phone so you can root it, then thats what you want. I want a phone that is not an enemy to be leery of, that doesnt record my voice or take my picture just cuz it wants to, or forcefeed data sucking apps on me, that doesnt flip out and have a conniption fit because it has so many background things trying to run at once, that have nothing to do with what i am doing, (remember mee, the Owner Of The Phone?), that it cant go on and has to freeze and crash, if my phone doesnt need to have its guts ripped out by me in order to just function nice, thats the kind of phone i want.

    I used to consider learning to root. Now i dont have to.
    Joshu42 likes this.
    08-28-15 02:17 AM
  9. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    The whole point of 'rooting' does not even exist with a BlackBerry. If you want a different kind of phone so you can root it, then thats what you want. I want a phone that is not an enemy to be leery of, that doesnt record my voice or take my picture just cuz it wants to, or forcefeed data sucking apps on me, that doesnt flip out and have a conniption fit because it has so many background things trying to run at once, that have nothing to do with what i am doing, (remember mee, the Owner Of The Phone?), that it cant go on and has to freeze and crash, if my phone doesnt need to have its guts ripped out by me in order to just function nice, thats the kind of phone i want.

    I used to consider learning to root. Now i dont have to.
    You shouldn't be getting less control.
    08-28-15 05:52 AM
  10. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    How does iPhones jailbreak work? You didn't mention that on and I am interested in the dirty details.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't know much about jailbreaking. I did it once, on an iPhone 4, a couple of years ago. The jailbreak method I used installed Cydia (a third party app store) and permitted you to have more control over your device. The downside is that you usually couldn't install security updates or upgrade to the next iteration of the OS without losing the jailbreak, and then you have to wait for the jailbreak guys to come up with a new one. So you can either wait to update (and be insecure) or lose all your good features.

    Mind you, this was a couple of years ago. You'd be better off to ask someone who's jailbroken an iDevice more recently.

    The other thing I wasn't sure about was whether you can really trust the people who create the jailbreak. It's not like an open source community, where everything is done out in the open. In fact, the whole thing makes you feel a little like a criminal.
    08-28-15 09:07 AM
  11. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    08-28-15 09:13 AM
  12. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    If you root it then you lose it.
    I don't know if you know what I mean.
    I don't know what you mean. On my desktop, I have root and regular user accounts. You only use root when you need elevated privileges. Otherwise, you run in your regular user account, and it's all much more secure that way.

    As Tre pointed out to me above, there are apps that allow for this in android. Since I've learned that, I think I could probably run a replicant system with root when I want it. Now if I could only get a physical keyboard!
    08-28-15 09:17 AM
  13. akavbb's Avatar
    I don't know what you mean. On my desktop, I have root and regular user accounts. You only use root when you need elevated privileges. Otherwise, you run in your regular user account, and it's all much more secure that way.

    As Tre pointed out to me above, there are apps that allow for this in android. Since I've learned that, I think I could probably run a replicant system with root when I want it. Now if I could only get a physical keyboard!
    Now this is where the problem begins.
    On Linux you have (strongly suggested) to run with limited account and elevate when needed.
    AFAIK in Android it's either rooted or not.(please correct me if I am wrong). Furthermore, in Android all applications from the same developer share the same uid. And that can create many problems as well. For example if I make a trully valid application that has a reason to access your device contacts database it's OK.
    If I make another application that doesn't request any permissions but has malicious intentions, I can make the second application get all contacts because it has the same uid with the valid one, as long as both have been installed on your phone. Now, if I manage to execute my apps with current users privileges (in that case root), then I suspect that it is a bye bye for all.

    Finally, in corporate environments such as the ones that BlackBerry aims, root privileges possess only a group of well educated admins. Imagine a device that can be rooted in your corporate network and the extend of damage it can impose.

    On the other hand, maybe everything I am writing is totally fictitious and can never happen so please correct me because I do not want to mislead people with nonsense .

    Posted via my STL100-2 | Waiting for the mighty Squircle to return
    anon(8063781) and powereds like this.
    08-28-15 10:55 AM
  14. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    If you can root, then there is a possibility that apps can too. As a IT manager, I lock down all devices as much as I can as users don't know what they are doing. To allow rooting at all means that that device is open for all to root, even those people and apps that you don't want or shouldn't.
    08-28-15 11:09 AM
  15. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    I don't disagree with the posts above. I'm not sure whether android is capable of a proper root/regular account system either, but that system, as it is in Linux, is what I want.

    We also have a different use-case scenario. I'm not in a corporate environment (they couldn't pay me enough to tether me to their email system), so my device is for personal use only. I agree (based on what I've seen at work) that IT does not want the average user to have root level control, whether correctly implemented or not.
    08-28-15 11:19 AM
  16. kgbbz10's Avatar
    So you don't want a secure device is what you're really saying OP. You want an unsecured phone that has access to everything you do on your phone. A phone that allows anyone to access your root and do whatever they please to it. Sounds like you want an Android. Well you're in good company here on CB with all the other people begging for less security with an Android OS.

    BBClassic10.3.2.2639
    miker476 and acovey like this.
    08-28-15 02:15 PM
  17. BCITMike's Avatar
    I've read a lot of threads about android and rooting, and here's my take.

    You SHOULD be able to root your device, but not the way it happens with android.

    Android is garbage, because it's bad UNIX.

    If you root an android device, from what I can tell, you then have to run it as root.

    UNIX is made to have root accounts. It's how YOU take full control of your device. It's how you control firewalls, permissions, and all that stuff that prevents anyone else from controlling your device or data. You should be able to log into a root level account and take control of your device to keep out the Googles and even the BlackBerry's of this world.

    And when you're done working with the high level administrative stuff, you should be able to log in as a regular user again, so that no administrative changes can be made inadvertantly, or by anyone else without you knowing. That's how desktop linux works, and it's how our phones should work too.

    Android is designed not to allow you to do this. Google gets to be your administrator. They have root control. BB10 is designed not to allow you to do this. BlackBerry serves as administrator (as does your local IT department if your phone is on BES).

    I want control of my own device, and when it comes time to get my next one, I won't compromise. Not to Google, BlackBerry, Microsoft, or anyone else. I guess that's going to limit my choices, but I'll check out Replicant, LuneOS, Firefox OS, Ubuntu's Phone OS, etc., and find something that I can control. I would urge the rest of you here to do the same.
    Desktops are NOT embedded devices and should not be treated as such.

    When you bork a desktop, you have several options to fix.

    An embedded device needs to prevent the borkng, which is why you lock it down. The target user does not have the knowledge to troubleshoot linux like an administrator does.

    Anything a regular user should have access to can be provided.

    So I'm not sure what benefit this would be for anyone but a dev in dev mode.

    Posted via CB10
    08-28-15 02:39 PM
  18. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    So you don't want a secure device is what you're really saying OP. You want an unsecured phone that has access to everything you do on your phone. A phone that allows anyone to access your root and do whatever they please to it. Sounds like you want an Android. Well you're in good company here on CB with all the other people begging for less security with an Android OS.

    BBClassic10.3.2.2639
    Come again?
    08-28-15 03:05 PM
  19. kgbbz10's Avatar
    Come again?
    Which part didn't you understand?

    BBClassic10.3.2.2639
    acovey likes this.
    08-28-15 03:08 PM
  20. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Which part didn't you understand?
    You refer to a rooted device as if it has uncontrollable power over one's activities and data.
    08-28-15 03:10 PM
  21. kgbbz10's Avatar
    You refer to a rooted device as if it has uncontrollable power over one's activities and data.
    Because that's what the root system of the OS does. It grants you, apps, anyone with ill intent to access the root of your OS and do as they please to it.

    BBClassic10.3.2.2639
    08-28-15 03:17 PM
  22. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Because that's what the root system of the OS does. It grants you, apps, anyone with ill intent to access the root of your OS and do as they please to it.

    BBClassic10.3.2.2639
    No, it doesn't. Root give me more control. It gives me the ability to incorporate tighter restraints.
    Witmen and kgbbz10 like this.
    08-28-15 03:22 PM
  23. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    So you don't want a secure device is what you're really saying OP. You want an unsecured phone that has access to everything you do on your phone. A phone that allows anyone to access your root and do whatever they please to it. Sounds like you want an Android. Well you're in good company here on CB with all the other people begging for less security with an Android OS.

    BBClassic10.3.2.2639
    Wow. Do you understand the difference between a password protected root account and regular user accounts without elevated privileges?

    In my original post, I said that I didn't think android implemented the root account properly. Someone commented that they thought it was possible. I don't know if it is or isn't. But that's what I want, which means I do not want an unsecured phone. In fact, I want the reverse. I want a phone on which I am the only person who knows the root account password, and I am the only person who can assume elevated privileges and make important changes. Every commercial mobile OS that I've seen wants you to hand that power over to the vendor, carrier, some corporate IT guy, etc. I don't think I should have to do that.

    I also want to be able to log out of root, log into a regular user account for my day-to-day use, and know that no significant system changes can be made by any app or outside party.

    I don't think this is possible with most if not all current commercial phone OSes. But it should be. A mobile phone is just a small computer with telephony added. It should be capable of anything a desktop is capable of....
    08-28-15 03:26 PM
  24. kgbbz10's Avatar
    No, it doesn't. Root give me more control. It gives me the ability to incorporate tighter restraints.
    Jesus. There's only one reason to root a phone and that is to access the root of the OS and do things that would otherwise not be allowed without access to that root system. Once that root is opened it is accessible to anything that wishes to gain access to it, there is no way to turn it off and deny things that you normally wouldn't want to have access to that root. You basically open yourself up to hacking. Much like running Windows in administration mode, you have opened access to the system files to anything that wishes to access it. Only difference is you have the option to turn it back off. You can't do that with a mobile OS, at least not any of the ones available because they don't give you that option. So once your phone is rooted (open) you have made yourself a target.

    BBClassic10.3.2.2639
    Dave Bourque likes this.
    08-28-15 03:32 PM
  25. anon(8063781)'s Avatar
    Jesus. There's only one reason to root a phone and that is to access the root of the OS and do things that would otherwise not be allowed without access to that root system. Once that root is opened it is accessible to anything that wishes to gain access to it, there is no way to turn it off and deny things that you normally wouldn't want to have access to that root. You basically open yourself up to hacking. Much like running Windows in administration mode, you have opened access to the system files to anything that wishes to access it. Only difference is you have the option to turn it back off. You can't do that with a mobile OS, at least not any of the ones available because they don't give you that option. So once your phone is rooted (open) you have made yourself a target.

    BBClassic10.3.2.2639
    Two things. 1) I think we're differing over what's possible on existing OSes and what I want, which are two very different things; 2) I think we're all discussing different use cases.

    Actually there's a third thing. Sometimes I forget Wheaton's Law. My apologies if I've offended anyone.
    extisis likes this.
    08-28-15 03:44 PM
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