11-09-15 12:29 AM
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  1. sonicpix's Avatar
    Right. WTH are people talking about?
    What people are talking about is shift to Android only phones means an eventual death to BB10. Seems obvious to me.

    Posted via CB10
    09-27-15 05:37 PM
  2. RyanGermann's Avatar
    What do you think the average user is looking for? What would you market?
    BB10 users aren't "average". You don't want to market to the 'average' user. You market to the BB10 user.

    The initial problem with BB10 was that they tried to design BB10 to appeal to the Average user. But it didn't have a home button on the device: it had these wacky "gestures" that were absolutely not for "average" users, then or now. When it became apparent that BlackBerry didn't appeal to the "average" user, what did BlackBerry do? They double down on trying to be "average", by trying to get the Amazon app store etc. on board and still not realizing that BB10 at its core didn't appeal to the "average" user, and they still didn't seek out and market to the "not-average" user...but if you're stuck in broken record mode "look we have apps look we have apps look we have apps" and that's all you know how to say to the "market", then of course, you will fail.

    I believe that I could come up with a marketing plan that would start by identifying what it is about BlackBerry 10 that appeals to users, and find them where they "live" and market to them there: not by saying how ALIKE Android and iOS that BB10 is, but rather how it's UNLIKE them, including "no, there aren't lots of apps: they're time wasters. You have stuff to do and here's how BlackBerry is better than Android and iOS for certain things." My approach would be very different than how "average" smarephones are marketed to "average" users using "average" methods.

    I'd market to the "non-average" user (let's say "perpendicular" to the market, not "above" or "below"). I'd find out what it is about BB10 that makes millions of us choose it as our favourite, and market to PEOPLE LIKE THAT, not to those who LOVE Android and iOS.

    I believe there are plenty of "perpendicular" Android and iOS users who want BB10 but they don't know it. If I had 10s of millions of dollars to use for a marketing budget, I wouldn't do a superbowl ad, because that's how you market to AVERAGE users (who BB management mistakenly thought that BB10 should be marketed to at that time).

    So, again, it's not marketing to AVERAGE users that's the issue here. It's BlackBerry's failure to seek out and market to "BlackBerry 10 users".

    That's just for starters, but again, it's not because BB10 isn't a great technology: it's because BlackBerry management failed it. And us.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 09-27-15 at 05:55 PM.
    KAM1138, dmlis and jsmith00075 like this.
    09-27-15 05:42 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    What are these "big bucks" of which you speak? Got a number in mind? (
    I wish I knew. I've been researching this very question for a while. I've seen numbers quoted anywhere between $10 and $50 million. This may be completely wrong too, and it could be much higher when you include the complete support package from Qualcomm.

    One thing is for sure: Chen feels it is high enough that he can't make a business case for it.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    Last edited by conite; 09-27-15 at 07:13 PM.
    09-27-15 06:07 PM
  4. KAM1138's Avatar
    I'm trying to evaluate strategies currently available - I'm not interested in those that require time travel. If this is not the discussion we are having, then I apologise in advance by wanting to end it here, as this is not what I thought we were talking about.

    I have always stated that I think BB10 was lost before it started regardless of the decisions that BlackBerry made after launch (and certainly in the Chen era). Chen is making the only rational decision available in my opinion. It is not a matter of holding him responsible - he's already done what I thought he must.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    Hello,

    If we are asking whether it is too late to undo the damage that occurred due to the Chen plan then I'd say probably. Starting today is too late, because the android die is cast.

    As you stated many times, you believe bb10 was dead on arrival. I don't agree. I think it was mismanaged and Chen's choices have made that a sure thing.

    I'm not sure why you can credit Chen as making the only decision he could when he had a hand in painting blackberry into that corner. He chose the path that destroyed BB10. It wasn't HIS only choice when he started down the path we are now on.

    Point is that Chen has created a self fulfilling prophecy and now we are stuck with it. I had held out some hope that BB10 could continue but what we've heard the last few days makes that highly unlikely. Why? Because that is and has been the plan.

    KAM

    Posted via CB10
    Allanon89 likes this.
    09-27-15 06:08 PM
  5. southlander's Avatar
    I can only hope this thread doesn't become true. BB10 crushes every other OS. It's only held back by blackberry and the refusal to market it.

    Passport SE SQW100-4/10.3.2.2639
    No. You can't market BlackBerry 10 to the mass market without parity of apps and peripherals support.

    Well you can. But any extra sales you generate would likely have a very high return rate as customers run into all the limitations.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    09-27-15 08:32 PM
  6. southlander's Avatar
    What people are talking about is shift to Android only phones means an eventual death to BB10. Seems obvious to me.

    Posted via CB10
    This is probably true. BlackBerry says they are committed to BlackBerry 10. So there are two scenarios.

    1. BlackBerry tries the slider and it flops or at least loses money. That's it as far as hardware goes. Probably. So BlackBerry 10 dies.

    2. The Priv does very well and makes some profits. Well one line of reasoning is they might use those profits to push BlackBerry 10 forward. Have 2 OS'es. But why would they? If Android appears to solve their sales issue for hardware it seems all the more likely that it becomes their focus.

    And there are all kinds of in between scenarios such as the Priv being almost profitable. Etc. Where things are less clear.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-27-15 08:43 PM
  7. KAM1138's Avatar
    This is probably true. BlackBerry says they are committed to BlackBerry 10. So there are two scenarios.

    1. BlackBerry tries the slider and it flops or at least loses money. That's it as far as hardware goes. Probably. So BlackBerry 10 dies.

    2. The Priv does very well and makes some profits. Well one line of reasoning is they might use those profits to push BlackBerry 10 forward. Have 2 OS'es. But why would they? If Android appears to solve their sales issue for hardware it seems all the more likely that it becomes their focus.

    And there are all kinds of in between scenarios such as the Priv being almost profitable. Etc. Where things are less clear.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    It seems that they've really don't as little as possible with BB10, so at best they've have to play Catch-up. But if the Priv is successfully, that will do nothing but support the fact that it was the "right choice." In fact--it doesn't actually even have to succeed, it just needs to be slightly less horrible than thing are now.

    The bar really couldn't be much lower with BlackBerry right now. However, BETTER isn't necessarily enough to save the Handset Business, but it is plenty justification (for a CEO that has already decided) to say "see--Android is better than BB10.

    The thing I'd be curious to hear is what is the next step for BlackBerry in regards to Hardware? Do they even have a next step, or have they pinched pennies so hard that they're not even going to plan a follow-up? What if the Priv is a moderate success are they then going to be playing catch-up there too?

    A few months down the road after the Priv is released, and Samsung and various other competitors have their new phones with whatever specs they offer, where does that leave BlackBerry with the "top specs" of today? I've heard that the pace of that has slowed, but I don't know where that will go in the future.

    However, if BlackBerry doesn't have anything to follow on...well, that's yet another bit of history repeating itself.

    KAM
    the1 and georg4BB like this.
    09-27-15 11:02 PM
  8. The_Passporter's Avatar
    The choice to make the Priv with a hard keyboard opposed to just doing the same as everyone else out there is to be different. In this game you need a feature to stand out and the hard keyboard was an obvious choice for BlackBerry. Yeah they could have made another boring touch screen phone just like the hundred other models out there but then no one would talk and think. This phone already has a target market and it wasn't too late to target them either. All the old school BlackBerry Crackberries out there that moved on and some who just loved their landscape or portrait keyboard from another platform can look at this and think twice about going back to what they knew they liked and what they have now at the same time.
    I do hope that the price leaves the option to type on a VKB for people who just can't get back to their roots like they thought or just for the easing of the adjustment period.

    Another reason for going with the hard keyboard is so this can be a "hit two birds with one stone deal". This phone clearly will be running BB10 for us at one point. BlackBerry is obviously strained in funds and resources so they are putting full focus on the android model but I am sure this was the plan to then offer it as a next gen BB10 device as well. I mean why not? It has exactly what we need with the touch sensitive keyboard.

    I think BlackBerry or JC is brilliant in making this company turn around and see it happening with in the next two years.

    Posted via CB10
    09-28-15 05:39 AM
  9. Adam Fox2's Avatar
    I would rather have a BlackBerry produced Android phone than no BlackBerry at all. As much as I wish BlackBerry 10 was more successful, it just didn't happen. But at least the company will stand a chance with an Android device.

    Blackberries are better for you than Apples
    anon(6038817) and Shadowyugi like this.
    09-28-15 07:54 AM
  10. KAM1138's Avatar
    Another reason for going with the hard keyboard is so this can be a "hit two birds with one stone deal". This phone clearly will be running BB10 for us at one point. BlackBerry is obviously strained in funds and resources so they are putting full focus on the android model but I am sure this was the plan to then offer it as a next gen BB10 device as well. I mean why not? It has exactly what we need with the touch sensitive keyboard.

    I think BlackBerry or JC is brilliant in making this company turn around and see it happening with in the next two years. Posted via CB10
    Blackberry isn't strained in Funds--they have very large cash reserves--around $3 Billion dollars. They losses which threatened that, if they wanted to make an investment, they had the funds on hand, without the need to go into debt to do it.

    If you are expecting to see a BB10 version of this phone, I'd brace myself if I were you. I'd say the odds of that are WAY less than 50%...probably closer to their market share number.

    In terms of physical keyboard, I think there are some folks out there that definitely prefer it, and some that have it as a very high priority--and those people are probably already using BlackBerry (the only Viable physical keyboard choice).

    I think the largest section of potential customers are as you note--those who recall liking the physical keyboard, but I'm wondering how many of those will realize that they've adapted to the virtual keyboard, and say "Meh" with the physical once they've tried it again. The point is, we're talking about percentages in any of these categories that will be attracted to the Priv due to the physical keyboard.

    The Slider (which I'm very comfortable with and favorable towards) isn't necessarily what everyone that likes a physical keyboard is looking for either. The Slider isn't BlackBerry's classic form factor. However, for some niche group it could be their 'best of both worlds' solution--I just doubt that this group represents a large volume of customers.

    KAM
    09-28-15 08:40 AM
  11. Old_Mil's Avatar
    This new chendroid should be named the Shiv, because it is the sharp instrument that will be uaed to kill BB10.
    09-28-15 10:27 AM
  12. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    I would rather have a BlackBerry produced Android phone than no BlackBerry at all.
    So is it all about the COMPANY LOGO, whatever it is placed on? If they fail with Android and then decide to go Windows Phone, will people say 'it is better to have Blackberry produced Windows Phone than no Blackberry at all'? I thought it was about the OS, but now I see it's the brand logo.
    09-28-15 02:45 PM
  13. quizm's Avatar
    Got my SE passport recently. After this week it seems that it is dying. What is the future of the passport? I imagine now sales will go to zero by Christmas.

    Posted via CB10
    srb151 likes this.
    09-28-15 03:26 PM
  14. Soulstream's Avatar
    BB10 users aren't "average". You don't want to market to the 'average' user. You market to the BB10 user.

    The initial problem with BB10 was that they tried to design BB10 to appeal to the Average user. But it didn't have a home button on the device: it had these wacky "gestures" that were absolutely not for "average" users, then or now. When it became apparent that BlackBerry didn't appeal to the "average" user, what did BlackBerry do? They double down on trying to be "average", by trying to get the Amazon app store etc. on board and still not realizing that BB10 at its core didn't appeal to the "average" user, and they still didn't seek out and market to the "not-average" user...but if you're stuck in broken record mode "look we have apps look we have apps look we have apps" and that's all you know how to say to the "market", then of course, you will fail.

    I believe that I could come up with a marketing plan that would start by identifying what it is about BlackBerry 10 that appeals to users, and find them where they "live" and market to them there: not by saying how ALIKE Android and iOS that BB10 is, but rather how it's UNLIKE them, including "no, there aren't lots of apps: they're time wasters. You have stuff to do and here's how BlackBerry is better than Android and iOS for certain things." My approach would be very different than how "average" smarephones are marketed to "average" users using "average" methods.

    I'd market to the "non-average" user (let's say "perpendicular" to the market, not "above" or "below"). I'd find out what it is about BB10 that makes millions of us choose it as our favourite, and market to PEOPLE LIKE THAT, not to those who LOVE Android and iOS.

    I believe there are plenty of "perpendicular" Android and iOS users who want BB10 but they don't know it. If I had 10s of millions of dollars to use for a marketing budget, I wouldn't do a superbowl ad, because that's how you market to AVERAGE users (who BB management mistakenly thought that BB10 should be marketed to at that time).

    So, again, it's not marketing to AVERAGE users that's the issue here. It's BlackBerry's failure to seek out and market to "BlackBerry 10 users".

    That's just for starters, but again, it's not because BB10 isn't a great technology: it's because BlackBerry management failed it. And us.
    The problem is that the "average user" is by definition the most common user. Having more potential targets for your product is good.

    And no, the lack of apps is NEVER EVER an upside and cannot in any way be marketable. if you are distracted by apps, it is not the apps's fault, it's your's as a person. It's clear that even us, here on CB, who are your target "BB10 users" go through 100 hoops to get apps we needed (sideloading, patching, find the right version).

    The problem is the moment we go into this zone of patching, sideloading etc, we become "techies", and Android is the playground of "techies". Hell there are more user who installed cyanogenmod on their devices, than there are BB10 user in the world.
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    09-28-15 04:07 PM
  15. Kryngle's Avatar
    Question. What is stopping BlackBerry into developing a new OS? What is required? I know it ain't easy but what is the hold up? Why not come out with BlackBerry 11 and actually pack it with everything the consumer needs.

    Posted via CB10
    09-28-15 05:10 PM
  16. raxamillion's Avatar
    No. You can't market BlackBerry 10 to the mass market without parity of apps and peripherals support.

    Well you can. But any extra sales you generate would likely have a very high return rate as customers run into all the limitations.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    I would have that thought that would be classed as an investment if you were confident about your OS. The lack of it was obvious and it started with blackberry. Look at all the hype surrounding the Z10, people, in the UK at least, we're genuinely interested. Then the promises of Skype and whatsapp being available at launch slowly dropped away and with it interest. BlackBerry have continually dropped the ball. I'm hopeful that the priv gives people a glimpse of what they are missing and generates interest in the product again, but I think the hard truth is that ball will get dropped as well.

    Passport SE SQW100-4/10.3.2.2639
    09-28-15 05:46 PM
  17. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Question. What is stopping BlackBerry into developing a new OS? What is required? I know it ain't easy but what is the hold up? Why not come out with BlackBerry 11 and actually pack it with everything the consumer needs.
    Spend limited resources on another OS that will lack the same thing that BB10 lacks?

    They aren't masochists up there in Waterloo...
    Last edited by Tre Lawrence; 09-29-15 at 05:20 AM.
    09-28-15 07:29 PM
  18. I will be back's Avatar
    Yeah.
    I'll be sitting on by Z30 till it lasts but what's next?

    WinPhone is not that much alive.
    I used Android for 4 years and I'm not going down this [organic fertilizer]-hole.

    So only iPhone
    09-28-15 09:52 PM
  19. FalkirkEagle's Avatar
    It's a shame that it has to be this way. BB10 is an excellent OS and vastly outclasses Android and iOS in terms of quality and reliability.

    I own a Passport and it is the most solid, useful smartphone I've ever owned. As a straight communications device it is absolutely nonpareil, and you could most definitely run a mobile business using a Passport or even a Classic. Try doing that with an Apple or Android smartphone.

    Sure, I wish there were more BlackBerry native apps, and I also wish the company would start leveraging IoT (Internet of Things) technology to expand the capability of their phones, because that is the near-term future of tech generally. But I've had Apple and Android phones in the past and was totally underwhelmed by both because they tended to be more like toys than serious communications and data management/personal organizer tools.
    CmdrStraker likes this.
    09-28-15 10:30 PM
  20. anischab's Avatar
    Question. What is stopping BlackBerry into developing a new OS? What is required? I know it ain't easy but what is the hold up? Why not come out with BlackBerry 11 and actually pack it with everything the consumer needs.

    Posted via CB10
    Money?
    Developers no more program for BB10... since it runs Android, you can download the. apk
    Now not all Apps work well on the BB10 devices, so there must be a solution... the Priv.

    Do you know what Apps we're talking about? Most are silly games!

    Workhorse: BlackBerry|Q10, SQN100-3, OS 10.3.2.2639; Power Workhorse: BlackBerry|Passport, SQW100-1, OS 10.3.2.2639 ; Germany.
    09-28-15 10:45 PM
  21. Malazm's Avatar

    This phone clearly will be running BB10 for us at one point. BlackBerry is obviously strained in funds and resources so they are putting full focus on the android model but I am sure this was the plan to then offer it as a next gen BB10 device as well.

    Posted via CB10
    I hope you are right.

    Posted via CB10
    09-28-15 11:18 PM
  22. southlander's Avatar
    I would have that thought that would be classed as an investment if you were confident about your OS.
    I don't think most anyone normal-consumer-wise buys a phone with confidence in the OS and that it will grow and get applications. I think they buy it for what it immediately is able to run... and connect to.
    09-29-15 01:26 AM
  23. EphremB's Avatar
    In my opinion, this is what's currently happening:
    1-Blackberry renewed the developers website.
    2-Chen said BB10 will not die now.
    3-Blackberry do not care a lot about selling smartphones but instead selling softwares to companies (BES12)

    That's why the Priv was made, so people in companies will take the Priv with the package, alongside the software that the company bought which is the BES12, and while doing so they are marketing the Priv so maybe the mass population will buy it, but I don't think Blackberry is relying on that, they shouldn't actually, they are just trying it as an extra bonus maybe.

    Conclusion: Priv is NOT a game changer nor strategy changer, but a helper to sell softwares and in the meantime it might bring a few bucks and get a few spots back at blackberry (since a lot of people in the world, apple and droid fans think blackberry is dead?)

    Another thing is that blackberry has a few hardcore blackberry users (up to 1 million bb 10 owner), if they switch to android only, they will probably lose 80% of those including me to apple (more secure than android and must faster over time), and they *might* get a few new android users but for how much time? Can blackberry keep them? I doubt that, other companies will imitate blackberry to get them back, and will probably do.

    So in order to blackberry to give up on bb10, it means this is their last shot, or the priv get successful and they continue with android, or they stop making smartphones and shutdown which is very unlikely to happen (acquiring new companies and they need smartphones alongside their software), so in my opinion 95% bb10 will remain.

    Why the priv might come in bb10?
    Blackberry announced the Priv because of the rumours on the internet and because everyone was talking about it, they used that to keep the talking alive, but that doesn't mean this announcement was scheduled, and blackberry users do not need marketing to buy the bb10 version, but maybe saying that the phone comes in android or bb10 will create discussion about what is better, and if blackberry has worked enough on the android version.

    These are my personal opinions based on news about blackberry and based on Chen's way of thinking.
    BB 10 OS will stay alive, and next month I am starting to learn apps development on it and start porting apps to this awesome OS.

    Regards !
    09-29-15 03:02 AM
  24. Uzi's Avatar
    R.I.P. BB10..-img_20150929_144844.png
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    09-29-15 03:10 AM
  25. Notna Nosyel's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Welcome to Analdroid!

    Posted via CB10
    09-29-15 03:54 AM
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