11-09-15 12:29 AM
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  1. conite's Avatar
    Nah... I care about BlackBerry 10. Once the device division is closed, BlackBerry will eventually license the keyboard tech so that will allow us to get the PKB tech on other devices. BlackBerry will be a footnote on the history of mobile technology.

    Posted via CB10
    I prefer BB10 too (as an OS - let's leave the increasing lack of apps out of this). We have two choices in front of us:

    1) Status quo option - lose BB10 entirely within a few more quarters (with absolute certainty).

    2) Shift to Android option - retain some BlackBerry DNA with hardware and BB10-inspired BlackBerry Experience Suite. Hope this gains enough traction to succeed (unknown, but there is at least hope).

    There is no mystery third option. As a BB10 lover, option 2 gives us the best chance of keeping at least some of what we like.

    I should rename the options "None", or "Some".

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    09-26-15 01:56 PM
  2. Irish Blues's Avatar
    The question is WHY such an advanced, stable, secure and efficient OS as BB10 is leading them to 0% marketshare - have you ever thought that it may be because they do it wrong? Maybe it's because of lack of proper hardware, shickingly poor support for native development, and stuff like that, and not because the OS itself is poor and unwanted.
    I was thinking more along these lines from 2012-13:

    1. BB10 "marketing" summed up: Alicia Keys droning "this girl is on fire." That's everything that the vast majority of people recall about it - if they recall anything about it.
    2. The initial launch of the BB10 OS had major bugs. Had it launched with even 10.1.0 it wouldn't have evoked immediate negative feedback - but the 10.0 series had issues and a lot of people said, "screw this - not dealing with it" and handed their phones back. Word of mouth was obviously not positive, and did the rest.
    3. Carrier "support" was nil. Both Samsung had active (and legal) kickback schemes to induce salespeople to push their products; BB was crap to those people as a result. I relayed the story of how I wanted to look at a Z10 at Verizon, and when I brushed off the salesperson's attempts to steer me to an Apple or Samsung phone the person walked away and actively (and very intentionally) ignored me.
    4. "The Imminent Death of Blackberry." To this day there are people who swear to God that Blackberry is going out of business in the next 12 months ... which those people have been saying for 2-3 years now. It's to the point, people look at me carrying a Z10 and roll out the, "gosh, I didn't know Blackberry still made phones" and when I offer to show it to them, it's "no thanks - they're not going to be around much longer anyway."
    5. Overproduction. I don't need to recount the massive writedown of Z10 and Q10 devices. That was money lost that could never be clawed back.

    Lack of support for native app development and so on fell out from those things. What didn't do it?
    1. "Poor specs." My God, what are you going to get with a 16MP camera that you don't see with an 8MP one? Is someone trying to get all the pores of someone's skin from 300 yards? Would having a 4GB processor really have sped things up when the system didn't need it and everything available at the time (and arguably still today) wasn't going to come close to utilizing it? "Better specs" translates to "higher prices" and for a line of phones that didn't have support and people weren't looking at, it's incredibly doubtful "please pay another $100-150" would have caused them to suddenly pull the trigger.
    2. "New phones after the initial two." From the 4 items above, people already weren't buying and keeping a Z10 or a Q10; they weren't going to get induced to go by a Z20, Q20, or anything else. (I'll concede that the Z30 was a Verizon-only product; that didn't really help things - but then see my comment above on carrier support being nil.)
    Joshu42 and KAM1138 like this.
    09-26-15 02:02 PM
  3. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    I see it this way:

    - BlackBerry does have the Passport's hardware. 3-fold faster than Z10/Q10, with much better camera. Fully supported by drivers, etc.
    - BlackBerry does have the Priv's acclaimed design.

    What is the cost of putting the former into the latter and this way ending up with a high end BB10 full touch device? Design and development costs are ZERO. As for production cost, wouldn't it actually make it cheaper if the Passport hardware was shared accross multiple models, rather than having to manufacture different hardware for the Leap/Qxx/Classic and the Passport?

    Fiscal results revealed yesterday clearly show that people DON'T want to buy all these outdated Leaps and Classics anymore. The market clearly doesn't need low-end BlackBerry phones. Passport does sell better (which suggests that a high-end BB10 phone is much more needed), but its specific design is a deal breaker for many people who prefer a traditional full touch device. So why not just put Passport guts into a full touch casing - and all that at ZERO development cost and actually a LOWERED production cost (one hardware line instead of two).

    The ONLY valid explanation of not doing it is that Chen wants you all to buy the Priv.
    Q10Bold likes this.
    09-26-15 02:25 PM
  4. southlander's Avatar
    Pebble, a company of 100 employees, has managed to bring to market four models since 2013, with one million units shipped. They've also managed to cultivate a thriving community, brand and eco-system, with an increasing retail presence.

    Yet BlackBerry, having developed mobile devices since 1996 and employing over 6,000 people, is claiming that device manufacture and supply chain logistics
    You answered the question. BlackBerry is too large to innovate. A startup looks at 10 million in revenue as an opportunity. A company the size of BlackBerry ideally wants a business that'll generate at least 100s of millions. Microsoft is known to only want to be in billion dollar businesses for example which is one reason the barely money making Xbox has been rumored for spin offs at times.

    That's what makes Apple so amazing. The fact that they reinvented themselves and created new markets after being so big and entrenched.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    09-26-15 03:12 PM
  5. southlander's Avatar
    How is that working out for most of the other Android OEMs?
    Better than BlackBerry 10 is working out for BlackBerry.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    grover5, johnny_bravo72 and JeepBB like this.
    09-26-15 03:17 PM
  6. southlander's Avatar
    The question is WHY such an advanced, stable, secure and efficient OS as BB10 is leading them to 0% marketshare - have you ever thought that it may be because they do it wrong?
    What I think is a new platform has some limited amount of time to gain traction and the time is passed for bb10. It is hard to know if BlackBerry could have done anything better since they've had to do all this in the middle of fierce competition.

    I think at this time the game is lost. No matter what. What could have BEEN done is not relevant.


    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    2ndHalfCor likes this.
    09-26-15 03:22 PM
  7. southlander's Avatar
    Thank you.
    I'm glad I'm not alone in my insanely utopistic view that something else could and should have been done despite the Harbingers of the Inevitable spreading the only truth - that we live in the best of possible worlds and nothing could have ever been managed better than the BB10 platform and platform switch at BlackBerry. It's fun that in their view the same BlackBerry that made the "flawed, not competitive enough, did-never-stand-a-chance" BB10 platform appears to be now following the only sensible path to salvation by going Android.



    People should be more honest. What they usually mean when they say "Things cannot be different" is either:
    - "I like things being this way"
    - "I don't mind"
    - "I don't care".
    Depicting choices as necessary and unavoidable is a way of never acknowledging personal or collective responsibility.
    Let's see how it plays out then. Yeah I don't drool over BlackBerry 10. I like it. It's a tool. Nothing more. I use a lot of tech. I certainly "don't care" enough to post threads that equate the death of BlackBerry 10 to that of a person or any other silliness I see on here.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    09-26-15 03:26 PM
  8. cgk's Avatar
    Better than BlackBerry 10 is working out for BlackBerry.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    Which is why...


    R.I.P. BB10..-picture2.png
    09-26-15 03:27 PM
  9. southlander's Avatar
    Same way, in mid 2000s everyone thought that it would be Symbian only when it had some up to 80% of smartphone market. A few years later it was gone. Assuming that Android and iOS will last forever is funny because even the Roman Empire has fallen and the Thousand-Year III Reich only lasted 20 years.

    BTW. What killed Symbian was exactly the same as on BB10: years of manufacturing heavily underpowered and outdated hardware by Nokia and no decent support for native development.
    Again I thought I didn't need to say this. Of course at some point iOS and Android are doomed as well. Some new crazy change will kill them. Just as open source Linux and mobile/iOS pulled the rug out from under the PC and Windows. When I say it'll be just iOS and Android I mean in the coming years, maybe 10 years -- who knows. Smartphone OSes.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    09-26-15 03:31 PM
  10. BurningPlatform's Avatar
    Better than BlackBerry 10 is working out for BlackBerry.
    which is no wonder considering its ancient hardware from iPhone 5 times. Who would buy iPhone 5 today?
    BallRockReaper likes this.
    09-26-15 03:35 PM
  11. southlander's Avatar
    By the way I don't really have an attachment to BlackBerry 10 over over say Android. But I DO want BlackBerry's hardware to live on. The PKB is very useful for some certain niche of users.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    09-26-15 03:37 PM
  12. southlander's Avatar
    which is no wonder considering its ancient hardware from iPhone 5 times. Who would buy iPhone 5 today?
    I can't help the fact that BlackBerry has been incompetent. No one can now. By the way BlackBerry built it's empire serving enterprise. Consumer use was an accident. Enterprises are slow to buy and replace PCs , OSes , and upgrade software. It should be no surprise that they are slow to push out hardware. Add to that billions lost on the PlayBook. Billions lost on BB10 phones. And just a few billion in cash to build a new future. That cash can go away very fast building hardware. Wouldn't you be gun-shy?

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    09-26-15 03:40 PM
  13. southlander's Avatar
    I guess what I've discovered is that I care more about BlackBerry technology.

    If BlackBerry decided that they must transition to some other industry would I care about BlackBerry any more than I care about Kitchen Aid or Goodyear? Or closer, would I care about BlackBerry more LG or Motorola?
    I will admit I do care about the hardware because it is something unique and useful -- mainly talking about the keyboard. I care less about the OS itself and more about what it can run and connect to.

    Yeah once BlackBerry is just an MDM and IoT company it'll be like IBM in a way. Solely enterprise focused. How many IBM fan sites are there out there anyway... lol.
    wincyUt likes this.
    09-26-15 05:06 PM
  14. the1's Avatar
    Better than BlackBerry 10 is working out for BlackBerry.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    HTC posted a net loss of $260 million for Q2; "better." lol
    09-26-15 06:05 PM
  15. wincyUt's Avatar
    Did blackberry really sell 800,000 BB10 devices? I've personally owned the z10, z30 and the passport.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes, based on the ER for this quarter and it's all devices sold.
    09-26-15 06:13 PM
  16. jojo beaconsfield's Avatar
    Reply to the OP,,Yeah I think so,lol BUT you know ELVIS died and things keep rolling along,hahaha BTW is Elvis really dead?
    haha
    09-26-15 07:54 PM
  17. southlander's Avatar
    HTC posted a net loss of $260 million for Q2; "better." lol
    Just because HTC doesn't know how to add value doesn't mean Android is not a good choice. Huawei. Xiaomi. Etc. Are finding a way.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    09-26-15 08:09 PM
  18. extisis's Avatar
    Just because HTC doesn't know how to add value doesn't mean Android is not a good choice. Huawei. Xiaomi. Etc. Are finding a way.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    just now they are? damn it's been years. good luck with all that.
    09-26-15 10:27 PM
  19. Kryngle's Avatar
    The way Mr Chen sounds, makes me think he prefers Android over BB10. If that is the case someone should tell him to apply at Google. He will have a field day with those muthaf**kaz. All the Android he can play with.

    He should be advertising the Slider with BB10 first. Take care of your own backyard first.

    Posted via CB10
    Q10Bold and David Tyler like this.
    09-26-15 11:24 PM
  20. kingrizz's Avatar
    Reply to the OP,,Yeah I think so,lol BUT you know ELVIS died and things keep rolling along,hahaha BTW is Elvis really dead?
    haha
    Guess that's the same as Tupac but advantage they had is before they died they were already liked/popular. Lol

    Posted via CB10
    09-27-15 12:56 AM
  21. kingrizz's Avatar
    Also no expert but guess current stock decrease prices others don't see this Android venture as "positive ".

    Posted via CB10
    09-27-15 01:02 AM
  22. KarateHottie93's Avatar
    Can blackberry really afford to dabble?? I think NOT! They need financial longevity as does any other business but i guess in your eyes Blackberry stating commitment to the playbook OS at the time was a positive step?
    Thanks for that not so expert opinion.
    09-27-15 01:04 AM
  23. KAM1138's Avatar
    I prefer BB10 too (as an OS - let's leave the increasing lack of apps out of this). We have two choices in front of us:

    1) Status quo option - lose BB10 entirely within a few more quarters (with absolute certainty).

    2) Shift to Android option - retain some BlackBerry DNA with hardware and BB10-inspired BlackBerry Experience Suite. Hope this gains enough traction to succeed (unknown, but there is at least hope).

    There is no mystery third option. As a BB10 lover, option 2 gives us the best chance of keeping at least some of what we like.

    I should rename the options "None", or "Some".

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    Hello,

    You can't say there isn't a third possible option. Generally, that third option is to come up with a new innovation that changes the paradigm. Silly as that sounds it is true, and it is exactly what Apple did that put Blackberry the former too dog on the bottom.

    If you say it can't happen, you are wrong. It has happened. History has occurred, and just because John Chen and his employees can't figure out how to make that happen doesn't mean it is impossible.

    Could that untried path have included BB10? Maybe, but maybe not. If anyone is insisting that this Android route is the only possible route, they are wrong. This is merely the chosen path that people either fall into line with or resist--which I admit is futile.

    In terms of some or none. Well, that is one way to look at things, but it isn't that simple, at least not for me. It could turn out like that or it could be meaningless-- a false positive that really has no value to some users. If the android version of the Hub lacks certain functions, then it might collapse in terms of its value to me.

    An analogy is like this: a building is viable as is, but then you remove certain load bearing walls. It might literally be something rather than nothing, but what remains is worse than having nothing at all. In that example a dangerous hazard. An imperfect anology, but maybe closer that I think in terms of security. Time will tell.

    On that. Imagine what's security breach on "blackberry"(even though it is actually android). It will be interesting to see how quickly BlackBerry's reputation for security goes up in flames. That would be a real shame. I'd hope that they aren't that incompetent, but who knows. The fact is that it wouldn't even have to be true. The claim might be enough to be ruin them, given their track record of PR.

    So, no, a slow death might be preferred to an outright disaster. Not predicting it will occur, but I'd not be shocked by it at this point.

    KAM
    Allanon89 likes this.
    09-27-15 01:20 AM
  24. KAM1138's Avatar
    If you want BlackBerry to succeed then I would think you'd be glad to see them try something else when what they are doing is leading them to 0% marketshare.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    Stop with the false dichotomy already. You seem like a smart fellow, so I really don't believe that you can't imagine more than "doing what they've been doing and android.

    Also, what they've been trying is this path to Android. Choosing this path is where they have been for some time, so they haven't improved anything else that might give any sign of comptent planning and everything is coming down to some miraculous turn around based on a Android device without beginning to address all the other failings in their management on down.

    They aren't really trying something else. They're just substituting a differnt operating system and hoping it makes a difference. There is absolutely nothing innovative or revolutionary about this plan. It's a timid, retreat by a company that seems to have lost its imagination, and has no ability to innovate.

    The last thing that had promise of that (bb10) has been turned into the scapegoat for all the failings of the people who are set to keep on making most of the same mistakes.

    So yes, please I beg you Blackbery, do something different, because what you Android fans are nodding your heads about sure isn't it.

    KAM
    Allanon89 and extisis like this.
    09-27-15 01:43 AM
  25. KAM1138's Avatar
    Just because HTC doesn't know how to add value doesn't mean Android is not a good choice. Huawei. Xiaomi. Etc. Are finding a way.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339
    Just because Blackberry can't seem to make their products sell doesn't mean Android is a good choice, but that's seems to be the default choice people are pushing as the only option. Again, totally false choice, or at least it was. That die is now cast it seems.

    I was hoping I would be wrong about that, and that The slider would work out. Now I'm asking why I would care either way.

    KAM
    Allanon89 likes this.
    09-27-15 01:50 AM
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