02-23-17 08:05 AM
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  1. early2bed's Avatar
    I'm just relieved that someone isn't claiming that people will love their car infotainment systems so much that they will go out and buy BB10 smartphones when they find out that they are both based on QNX. I just don't think I could have handled that one, again.

    To address the OP's actual question - the stuff that has to be done to keep up with Apple and Google like biometrics, camera improvements, cloud-services, electronic payments, apps, aren't going to come from car infotainment systems and self-driving modules. Perhaps if QNX had some first-rate mapping and traffic-monitoring systems, that could be used for the smartphone but they don't. Apple and Google have that and can use it in both smartphones and cars going forward.

    Your idea is a great one. That's why Apple, Google have been doing it for years with PCs/notebooks, tablets, smartphones, automobiles, TV boxes, watches, home automation, etc. It allows you to make massive investments in your core operating systems because its used everywhere. Microsoft does it too. Ever see a Windows error message on a slot machine or a movie theater projector?
    Last edited by early2bed; 02-20-17 at 12:18 AM.
    app_Developer likes this.
    02-20-17 12:07 AM
  2. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Apparently I've been summoned. LOL.

    So, if you're old enough, think back to DOS and early versions of Windows. Early versions of Windows couldn't run by themselves - you had to have DOS installed first, and Windows ran on top of DOS. But DOS was the underlying OS, and DOS could run many things completely unrelated to Windows. For example, until Win95 and DirectX, games had to be run in DOS mode, and every individual game had to have its own drivers to support video and audio chipsets - there was no "universal driver model". So, DOS games like DOOM would only work with a handful of video cards and sound cards. But in that era, nothing anyone developed for a DOS game would have any effect on Windows or Windows apps - they were completely unrelated, despite both using DOS as their base OS.

    While that's not an exact analogy to modern Unix-based mobile OSs, in general terms, it's pretty similar. While QNX is the foundation that BB10 was built on top of, 90+% of the BB10 code is unique to BB10 and not part of QNX - and not part of the QNX for Car modules that BB sells to auto manufacturers which they use to create their own unique UIs and builds. So, while QNX development work will continue, that means some parts of the perhaps 10% of BB10 that is the QNX foundation will be updated - the 90% of the code that is BB10 will not be being developed, and haven't been for almost 2 years already.

    Ongoing development of something like a mobile OS (JUST the OS itself) would cost upwards of $200M/year at a very minimum, and that's not including any other costs related to the ecosystem, all of which would also need to be maintained and developed in order for BB10 to be a viable OS. Actually supporting the entire ecosystem is a $1B/year or greater cost, and with no devices to pay for that, it makes less than zero sense for BB to spend any money, much less hundreds of millions per year, to maintain BB10 development.

    Even Bla1ze and CBK agree. It's time to let go of the hope that BB10 has a future, because that future is - at best - limited to the 10.3.4 security update, if that comes at all. It should be noted that BB hasn't talked about that update in more than a year at this point, so it may well have been canceled.
    02-20-17 12:40 AM
  3. Uzi's Avatar
    Since the 'like' button broken on CB10 lol, thanks for the explanation @Troy Tiscareno

    CB Mod
    02-20-17 12:50 AM
  4. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    02-20-17 12:54 AM
  5. anon(10154733)'s Avatar
    Wow, thank you Troy and @early2bed for the detailed responses. Very informative indeed

    Posted via CB10
    02-20-17 08:29 AM
  6. falcotec's Avatar
    Has Blackberry ever thought about "selling" the BBOS10 to Consumers? If "Software is the new Blackberry" I would think that Blackberry OS is good software and in my case I would keep the device in case I could have the chance to see ongoing support and maintenance. Paying a fee once a year or only buying an upgrade/update could be an option. I would expect that enterprise customers are not willing to pay for such service as they have the servers and services and so on. Would there be enough consumers around on the world to get such amount of money as mentioned by @Troy Tiscareno?
    02-20-17 09:06 AM
  7. Johnny Dollar's Avatar
    One thing I've learned from my brief time on this earth is that you 'never say never' about anything. If there is a perceived need, somehow someway, and with enough time that need will eventually be filled. I see this with BB10. The need is not today or tomorrow but in the future through circumstances that we know nothing about today could cause that need to appear for a resurgence in BB10 development.

    At least BlackBerry has the BB10 card in their back pocket that they can play at anytime in the future finances permitting. Am I waiting for it? No. I like many others in the community have 'moved on'. But wouldn't it be a wonderful thing to see BB10 development revived to the point of seeing BB10 devices again? I hope to see it in my lifetime.

    Call me the eternal optimist as I always like to see the glass half full. Heck we all thought magazines and vinyl records would die because of digital media but they are actually on a comeback now. Who knew?!

    I can keep hoping.
    02-20-17 09:10 AM
  8. blackbp's Avatar
    One thing I've learned from my brief time on this earth is that you 'never say never' about anything. If there is a perceived need, somehow someway, and with enough time that need will eventually be filled. I see this with BB10. The need is not today or tomorrow but in the future through circumstances that we know nothing about today could cause that need to appear for a resurgence in BB10 development.

    At least BlackBerry has the BB10 card in their back pocket that they can play at anytime in the future finances permitting. Am I waiting for it? No. I like many others in the community have 'moved on'. But wouldn't it be a wonderful thing to see BB10 development revived to the point of seeing BB10 devices again? I hope to see it in my lifetime.

    Call me the eternal optimist as I always like to see the glass half full. Heck we all thought magazines and vinyl records would die because of digital media but they are actually on a comeback now. Who knew?!

    I can keep hoping.
    If so.....than I will be there for sure...


    Posted via CB10
    02-20-17 09:49 AM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Never really can say never.... heck they've got BBOS in their back pocket too.

    I expect that IF BlackBerry gets to a point where they think reentering the smartphone market might be profitable.... they will not try to resurrect a five or six year old failed OS. It will probably be with pure QNX... as it will continue to grow and expanded its capabilities over the coming years.

    There might be a nostalgia around the BlackBerry Brand.... but I don't think the same applies nearly as much to BB10.
    02-20-17 09:58 AM
  10. lolo9269's Avatar
    I thin bb10 is a great os. But the mistake is to want to be compatible with android apps. All os want to be copatible to other os like os2 with windows dies. But like os2 is return with arcaos in 2017. So bb10 is still here and i Think apps Will be dies in the future. All apps can works in htm5 web site. Sorry for my english.

    lolo69 #welove&wheshare
    02-20-17 10:38 AM
  11. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Has Blackberry ever thought about "selling" the BBOS10 to Consumers? If "Software is the new Blackberry" I would think that Blackberry OS is good software and in my case I would keep the device in case I could have the chance to see ongoing support and maintenance. Paying a fee once a year or only buying an upgrade/update could be an option. I would expect that enterprise customers are not willing to pay for such service as they have the servers and services and so on. Would there be enough consumers around on the world to get such amount of money as mentioned by @Troy Tiscareno?
    http://forums.crackberry.com/general...l#post12760068

    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...stion-1098761/
    02-20-17 10:55 AM
  12. Dmd74's Avatar
    To my knowledge, no one at QNX had a hand in writing BB10. BB10 didn't keep up with QNX development either, and updating would require a complete rewrite of the OS, along with all apps. Someone like @Troy Tiscareno could best explain the details. Nothing will change the fact there is no future.
    I was under the impression that QNX did have people that assisted in the writing of the BB10 code. I believe that it was touched upon in the book "Losing the Signal".
    02-20-17 03:27 PM
  13. anon(9742832)'s Avatar
    You have an over inflated sense of QNX's involvement in BlackBerry 10 through no fault of your own. It was presented that way for many years. You're also not taking into account that BlackBerry has no interest in further development of BlackBerry 10. You'll get maintenance updates for a while, that's it and I say this to you and anyone else reading this. Let it go. Enjoy BlackBerry 10 for what it is. Its time to shine, and succeed is long gone. You either love it for it is, or you end up loathing 'what it could have been.'
    Sometimes it sucks to be the voice in the wilderness
    02-20-17 04:16 PM
  14. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    I was under the impression that QNX did have people that assisted in the writing of the BB10 code. I believe that it was touched upon in the book "Losing the Signal".
    IIRC that was the PlayBook OS, which was different, but I could be "loosing the mind".
    02-20-17 04:16 PM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    IIRC that was the PlayBook OS, which was different, but I could be "loosing the mind".
    Wasn't the PlayBook OS, just an early version of what became BB10?
    02-21-17 09:30 AM
  16. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Wasn't the PlayBook OS, just an early version of what became BB10?
    It was similar, but were it really an early version of BB10, why was bridge so pathetic?
    02-21-17 07:50 PM
  17. early2bed's Avatar
    It was similar, but were it really an early version of BB10, why was bridge so pathetic?
    Just because two devices run similar or the same code does not mean that they will easily interface with each other. I never understood why people thought that because a dash-system runs QNX that it would better interface with a BB10 handset. It makes no sense from a software development perspective.
    02-22-17 10:43 AM
  18. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Just because two devices run similar or the same code does not mean that they will easily interface with each other. I never understood why people thought that because a dash-system runs QNX that it would better interface with a BB10 handset. It makes no sense from a software development perspective.
    Well, from my ignorant view, if they speak the same language, they should be able to communicate easier.

    With regards to QNX infotainment and BlackBerry, I never thought about difficulty, but rather marketing and the logic of a subsidiary doing something for the mother company.
    02-22-17 01:02 PM
  19. moosbb's Avatar
    One thing I've learned from my brief time on this earth is that you 'never say never' about anything. If there is a perceived need, somehow someway, and with enough time that need will eventually be filled. I see this with BB10. The need is not today or tomorrow but in the future through circumstances that we know nothing about today could cause that need to appear for a resurgence in BB10 development.

    At least BlackBerry has the BB10 card in their back pocket that they can play at anytime in the future finances permitting. Am I waiting for it? No. I like many others in the community have 'moved on'. But wouldn't it be a wonderful thing to see BB10 development revived to the point of seeing BB10 devices again? I hope to see it in my lifetime.

    Call me the eternal optimist as I always like to see the glass half full. Heck we all thought magazines and vinyl records would die because of digital media but they are actually on a comeback now. Who knew?!

    I can keep hoping.
    None can predict the future, even if some seems to think so here!

    Posted via CB10
    02-22-17 03:20 PM
  20. co4nd's Avatar
    Has Blackberry ever thought about "selling" the BBOS10 to Consumers? If "Software is the new Blackberry" I would think that Blackberry OS is good software and in my case I would keep the device in case I could have the chance to see ongoing support and maintenance. Paying a fee once a year or only buying an upgrade/update could be an option. I would expect that enterprise customers are not willing to pay for such service as they have the servers and services and so on. Would there be enough consumers around on the world to get such amount of money as mentioned by @Troy Tiscareno?
    If there were enough consumers interested Blackberry would still be developing BB10 and BB10 hardware.
    02-22-17 03:28 PM
  21. ppeters914's Avatar
    Since the 'like' button broken on CB10 lol, thanks for the explanation @Troy Tiscareno

    CB Mod
    Ditto.

    Posted via CB10 / AT&T /Z10 STL100-3 /10.3.3.2205
    02-22-17 03:36 PM
  22. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    Well, from my ignorant view, if they speak the same language, they should be able to communicate easier.

    With regards to QNX infotainment and BlackBerry, I never thought about difficulty, but rather marketing and the logic of a subsidiary doing something for the mother company.
    QNX just provided the OS. The application layer was developed by the car companies (or licensed from some other company).

    It's a bit like expecting your home router to interface with your Android phone better because they both run Linux as the OS. The interfacing that the average driver is looking for is so high above the OS level that the OS doesn't matter as far as the UI is concerned. Isn't Ford still pushing the Apple integration with their cars now even though their system is QNX based?

    The marketing logic is does BlackBerry/QNX want the license deal or not. Besides if you look at how long QNX has been providing training to the car industry to write secure apps in Android it is probably as long ad BlackBerry has been working on Android. So they are on the same page as HQ. BB10 is no longer a consumer product. The consumers made that and BlackBerry listened just as they said they would.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.3.2205
    app_Developer likes this.
    02-22-17 03:36 PM
  23. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    QNX just provided the OS. The application layer was developed by the car companies (or licensed from some other company).

    It's a bit like expecting your home router to interface with your Android phone better because they both run Linux as the OS. The interfacing that the average driver is looking for is so high above the OS level that the OS doesn't matter as far as the UI is concerned. Isn't Ford still pushing the Apple integration with their cars now even though their system is QNX based?

    The marketing logic is does BlackBerry/QNX want the license deal or not. Besides if you look at how long QNX has been providing training to the car industry to write secure apps in Android it is probably as long ad BlackBerry has been working on Android. So they are on the same page as HQ. BB10 is no longer a consumer product. The consumers made that and BlackBerry listened just as they said they would.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.3.2205
    According to QNX, the mobile connectivity was theirs, at least with regard to Toyota:

    The QNX CAR™ Application Platform is a production-ready, pre-integrated software stack that helps automakers and tier one automotive suppliers reduce the cost and effort of building connected multimedia systems. The platform’s mobile device connectivity, user-interface technology, software upgradeability, and automotive-grade architecture offer the future-readiness and reliability demanded by sophisticated multimedia systems such as Toyota Entune.
    QNX Provides Software Platform for New Toyota Entune Multimedia System

    It did support BlackBerry phones, until OS 7 came out. While if sideloaded, the app worked fine, it wasn't available in AppWorld. I contacted them, and they sited Bluetooth security as the reason. I have the emails, and was dumbfounded they couldn't create a secure link for BlackBerry, while iPhone, Android and Windows had no issue. I sold Toyota at the time, and helped many customers with the app, along with many here. BB10 came, and of course no love there either, though I found a "functioning" Android version I could use.

    Might there have been technical difficulties? No doubt. Might they have had to volunteer development time, to whomever made the final product on many systems? No doubt there either. Would a BlackBerry symbol, as they have next to QNX, and BlackBerry connectivity possibly helped the brand? We shall never know.
    02-22-17 09:41 PM
  24. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    According to QNX, the mobile connectivity was theirs, at least with regard to Toyota:


    QNX Provides Software Platform for New Toyota Entune� Multimedia System

    It did support BlackBerry phones, until OS 7 came out. While if sideloaded, the app worked fine, it wasn't available in AppWorld. I contacted them, and they sited Bluetooth security as the reason. I have the emails, and was dumbfounded they couldn't create a secure link for BlackBerry, while iPhone, Android and Windows had no issue. I sold Toyota at the time, and helped many customers with the app, along with many here. BB10 came, and of course no love there either, though I found a "functioning" Android version I could use.

    Might there have been technical difficulties? No doubt. Might they have had to volunteer development time, to whomever made the final product on many systems? No doubt there either. Would a BlackBerry symbol, as they have next to QNX, and BlackBerry connectivity possibly helped the brand? We shall never know.
    The things that a BBOS 6 to 7 phone and the competition did, and what was being supported in cars at that time was almost insignificant compared to what is being done today. Last summer I rented a Mazda while on vacation which supported my BlackBerry for everything I wanted: music and phone calls through Bluetooth, it read incoming texts and allowed me to respond with preset messages using the steering wheel controls. I didn't explore it further than that.

    I own a 2013 Mitsubishi RVR which also supports my BlackBerry very well with all the features it has, but it does all the same functions with my iPad (except phone calls of course). But with the iPad and iPhones it can use a proprietary Apple protocol so I can navigate my music by voice command, and this works very well. But BB10 doesn't have that protocol, so I can't use it with my phone. Protocols like Apple car play and Android auto are more complex. Even if QNX built an equivalent protocol into the head unit for BB10 the best support you might see for a long time is Android Auto third party applications that took advantage of it. But even that is not realistically in the cards today. How many additional sales do you think a dealer could make if the sold cars that could also interface with BB10 the way they can with iPones? If it was significant someone would probably be doing it.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.3.2205
    02-23-17 07:07 AM
  25. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    The things that a BBOS 6 to 7 phone and the competition did, and what was being supported in cars at that time was almost insignificant compared to what is being done today. Last summer I rented a Mazda while on vacation which supported my BlackBerry for everything I wanted: music and phone calls through Bluetooth, it read incoming texts and allowed me to respond with preset messages using the steering wheel controls. I didn't explore it further than that.

    I own a 2013 Mitsubishi RVR which also supports my BlackBerry very well with all the features it has, but it does all the same functions with my iPad (except phone calls of course). But with the iPad and iPhones it can use a proprietary Apple protocol so I can navigate my music by voice command, and this works very well. But BB10 doesn't have that protocol, so I can't use it with my phone. Protocols like Apple car play and Android auto are more complex. Even if QNX built an equivalent protocol into the head unit for BB10 the best support you might see for a long time is Android Auto third party applications that took advantage of it. But even that is not realistically in the cards today. How many additional sales do you think a dealer could make if the sold cars that could also interface with BB10 the way they can with iPones? If it was significant someone would probably be doing it.

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.3.2205
    You talked past virtually everything I was saying. I'll chock it up to my Wulfanese™, and move on.
    02-23-17 07:13 AM
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