01-28-14 12:09 PM
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  1. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    Anyone else think that Blackberry should have kept the functionality and reliability of BIS in the BB10 platform? Especially now with BBOS devices continuing to outsell BB10 phones?

    My two cents would have been to keep BIS, just as they kept BES, but have carriers in the US (not talking about international), charge $5 or something more for BIS and use it over the native email protocols (IMAP, POP)

    This way, the power users whose jobs live and die by the speed in which they receive information (stock brokers, journalists, etc etc) who don't care for the semi-sluggish email behavior BB10 sometimes exhibits, and pay for the BIS usage knowing they will get email instantly 99% of the time.

    Before the commentary starts with "I have no problem receiving email on BB10" this post is not for you. Like several other users around the CB community, I am one who notices the email delays on both EAS, G-Mail, and the occasional Outlook.com accounts on my phone. I receive a VERY large amount of email on a daily basis and yes, I hate to say it, but a lot of the time it comes in delayed. Because of this, Blackberry has me sending them logs every time this happen to hopefully come up with a solution and cause. From July to date, I've sent 167 logs and 30gb worth of IIS logs from my Exchange server, but still no resolution even though they've acknowledged there's a problem.

    If they would have kept BIS as an OPTIONAL feature and add on, I wouldn't be dealing with this continued frustration

    And again, to clarify, I am not saying it is my opinion that BB10 should only have BIS and BES, I'm saying, I would have liked to see native email protocols AND the OPTION to pay more to use BIS instead.
    01-21-14 08:27 PM
  2. just_luc's Avatar
    They are coming out with BES cloud.. which is essentially supped up BIS.. those won't really want it back can sign up for that.

    Posted via CB10
    01-21-14 08:29 PM
  3. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    They are coming out with BES cloud.. which is essentially supped up BIS.. those won't really want it back can sign up for that.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't think that's going be at all close to what I'd be looking for.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.1898
    01-21-14 11:51 PM
  4. howarmat's Avatar
    I think they tried to get BIS working with the new OS and couldnt. Not totally sure what ever came out of that. I am sure they would love to have the BIS fees keep rolling in and its a feature that some people still really would like to have as an option.
    01-22-14 12:00 AM
  5. ArmedHitman's Avatar
    Anyone else think that Blackberry should have kept the functionality and reliability of BIS in the BB10 platform? Especially now with BBOS devices continuing to outsell BB10 phones?

    My two cents would have been to keep BIS, just as they kept BES, but have carriers in the US (not talking about international), charge $5 or something more for BIS and use it over the native email protocols (IMAP, POP)

    This way, the power users whose jobs live and die by the speed in which they receive information (stock brokers, journalists, etc etc) who don't care for the semi-sluggish email behavior BB10 sometimes exhibits, and pay for the BIS usage knowing they will get email instantly 99% of the time.

    Before the commentary starts with "I have no problem receiving email on BB10" this post is not for you. Like several other users around the CB community, I am one who notices the email delays on both EAS, G-Mail, and the occasional Outlook.com accounts on my phone. I receive a VERY large amount of email on a daily basis and yes, I hate to say it, but a lot of the time it comes in delayed. Because of this, Blackberry has me sending them logs every time this happen to hopefully come up with a solution and cause. From July to date, I've sent 167 logs and 30gb worth of IIS logs from my Exchange server, but still no resolution even though they've acknowledged there's a problem.

    If they would have kept BIS as an OPTIONAL feature and add on, I wouldn't be dealing with this continued frustration

    And again, to clarify, I am not saying it is my opinion that BB10 should only have BIS and BES, I'm saying, I would have liked to see native email protocols AND the OPTION to pay more to use BIS instead.
    I read a article once on here saying the overheads were too large and nowadays a system like that isn't just needed or something. They wanted to get rid of it to obviously cut cost but also is that I don't think managing and maintaining them servers globally is easy :/

    Posted via CB10
    01-22-14 12:18 AM
  6. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    I read a article once on here saying the overheads were too large and nowadays a system like that isn't just needed or something. They wanted to get rid of it to obviously cut cost but also is that I don't think managing and maintaining them servers globally is easy :/

    Posted via CB10
    But you're forgetting that the majority of BlackBerry phones worldwide still use BIS. It's the small fraction of BB10 devices that do not.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.1898
    01-22-14 12:26 AM
  7. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    I think they tried to get BIS working with the new OS and couldnt. Not totally sure what ever came out of that. I am sure they would love to have the BIS fees keep rolling in and its a feature that some people still really would like to have as an option.
    You think they couldn't figure out how to mesh it with QNX?

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.1898
    01-22-14 12:29 AM
  8. ArmedHitman's Avatar
    But you're forgetting that the majority of BlackBerry phones worldwide still use BIS. It's the small fraction of BB10 devices that do not.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.1898
    But I really don't think they need another line in there expenses books as they are right now.

    And read this thread... it'll explain to you why it was removed

    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...de-bis-786880/

    Posted via CB10
    01-22-14 12:33 AM
  9. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    But I really don't think they need another line in there expenses books as they are right now.

    And read this thread... it'll explain to you why it was removed

    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...de-bis-786880/

    Posted via CB10
    I remember this thread, but it still does not really touch on my first statement. I'm just saying it would have been nice to have as an "optional upgrade" or whatever.

    You want basic email connectivity like iOS and Droid, using IMAP and POP, or do you want your email to go through the BlackBerry NOC and use their proprietary system. (aka - do you want to sit in coach, or first class?). Both will get you where you need to be, but one arguably is better. For me, again my opinion, I'd rather have the proprietary email system thru BB.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.1898
    RyanGermann likes this.
    01-22-14 12:36 AM
  10. SC457's Avatar
    Yes, I would pay more a month to have BIS back for emails and get the functionality back. After upgrading to 10.2 that is really the only legacy feature I truly miss.
    LuisCast likes this.
    01-22-14 01:14 AM
  11. ArmedHitman's Avatar
    I remember this thread, but it still does not really touch on my first statement. I'm just saying it would have been nice to have as an "optional upgrade" or whatever.

    You want basic email connectivity like iOS and Droid, using IMAP and POP, or do you want your email to go through the BlackBerry NOC and use their proprietary system. (aka - do you want to sit in coach, or first class?). Both will get you where you need to be, but one arguably is better. For me, again my opinion, I'd rather have the proprietary email system thru BB.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.1898
    In my own personal opinion I think it was a good idea that it was removed. I don't think I would want my data to be dogged down. I've never had issues with BBOS and BB10 both give and provide me the product I've wanted (communication hub).

    Also in this day and age I don't think many people care about pop and imap to setup email accounts anymore. As it's done automatically now with auto detection Simpler for consumers! I guess it makes the product match a standard everyone else is on too.

    Finally I also read somewhere that the compression was useless because data speeds are now much faster. You get slowed down when you bring NOC into the equation. Brand new devices mean much more data transferred too meaning more bandwidth used by NOC servers... Bandwidth cost them money which they don't have to burn right now!

    Posted via CB10
    01-22-14 08:01 AM
  12. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    In my own personal opinion I think it was a good idea that it was removed. I don't think I would want my data to be dogged down. I've never had issues with BBOS and BB10 both give and provide me the product I've wanted (communication hub).

    Also in this day and age I don't think many people care about pop and imap to setup email accounts anymore. As it's done automatically now with auto detection Simpler for consumers! I guess it makes the product match a standard everyone else is on too.

    Finally I also read somewhere that the compression was useless because data speeds are now much faster. You get slowed down when you bring NOC into the equation. Brand new devices mean much more data transferred too meaning more bandwidth used by NOC servers... Bandwidth cost them money which they don't have to burn right now!

    Posted via CB10
    Gmail uses IMAP.....

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.1898
    01-22-14 09:56 AM
  13. kbz1960's Avatar
    While BIS is fairly reliable it has gone down. What happens each time it has gone down? Pizzed off people leave BBRY because their phone was a brick for however long, sometimes days, before it was fixed.
    01-22-14 10:06 AM
  14. Dave79's Avatar
    I would have been VERY happy to have the option to hook up with BIS for the email. I think it could have been a little confusing for some people but it would have brought a good service fee to BlackBerry every day.

    Fanboyz keep saying that BB10 email experience is great and they have push mail with no issues but me and many other people are having a totally different experience, yahoo mail is no where push and fails lots of times, outlook.com/live/hotmail sometimes works great with real time push some others dont and there are delays. Google apps was working smoothly with BIS now I get push mail a minute and the other minute no. It's very messy - if there was the option to hook up to BIS for the messaging part I'd be happy to pay an extra fee, perhaps a service that BBRY could offer directly to consumers cutting out carriers and having higher margins. No missing the BIS with the browser but that's a different story.

    No to mention that BIS messaging would come handy with people that are doing lots of roaming.
    iusebb likes this.
    01-22-14 10:09 AM
  15. Dave79's Avatar
    While BIS is fairly reliable it has gone down. What happens each time it has gone down? Pizzed off people leave BBRY because their phone was a brick for however long, sometimes days, before it was fixed.
    You switch it off - the idea is to have options! You want BIS fine, you dont want BIS great, the important is to have the option to choose.
    LuisCast, kbz1960 and RyanGermann like this.
    01-22-14 10:10 AM
  16. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    While BIS is fairly reliable it has gone down. What happens each time it has gone down? Pizzed off people leave BBRY because their phone was a brick for however long, sometimes days, before it was fixed.
    Once in a blue moon this happened. I don't even think in the last 6 months has there been an outage. I'd rather deal with an outage once a year and use my other devices for email rather than deal with the BB10 email delays.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.1898
    iusebb likes this.
    01-22-14 10:25 AM
  17. ArmedHitman's Avatar
    Gmail uses IMAP.....

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.1898
    No I meant that everything is done to make its simpler and easier for normal consumers to use. I don't think most people know what POP and imap is.. :/

    Posted via CB10
    01-22-14 10:59 AM
  18. PostMortem's Avatar
    I have nothing worthwhile to contribute because mine works fine and I get email at the same speed I did with BIS except with more options now.

    That's said, options are good.

    Posted via CB10
    01-22-14 12:28 PM
  19. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    I know there are a lot of threads on this, but is BIS separate from 3G or LTE browsing? I am guessing it's possible to use both simultaneously?

    Posted via CB10
    01-22-14 01:10 PM
  20. just_luc's Avatar
    I don't think that's going be at all close to what I'd be looking for.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.1898
    Why do you say that? BES does everything BIS did and then some.. the main draw back for an end user was that it required a server.. now with BES cloud it won't. I don't claim to have all the information on this new service, no one does yet. But from what I do know I'm not seeing why someone who is missing BIS couldn't jump on BES cloud..

    Posted via CB10
    Ecm and Q10Bold like this.
    01-22-14 02:32 PM
  21. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    I posted a suggestion on BlackBerry Jira system that they make BIS a subscription service directly from BlackBerry as a subscription in BlackBerry World. At that time (almost two years ago) the official plan was that BB10 would require BIS or BES.

    At this point, considering the changes, I don't see it coming for BB10 any time soon.

    Posted via CB10
    01-22-14 02:33 PM
  22. kbz1960's Avatar
    Once in a blue moon this happened. I don't even think in the last 6 months has there been an outage. I'd rather deal with an outage once a year and use my other devices for email rather than deal with the BB10 email delays.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.1898
    Have been a member here when there has been an outage? Outrage maximums
    01-22-14 02:43 PM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I know there are a lot of threads on this, but is BIS separate from 3G or LTE browsing? I am guessing it's possible to use both simultaneously?

    Posted via CB10
    It is possible to use both simultaneous starting with the OS7 devices, before that would be one or the other.
    01-22-14 02:48 PM
  24. Dave79's Avatar
    Why do you say that? BES does everything BIS did and then some.. the main draw back for an end user was that it required a server.. now with BES cloud it won't. I don't claim to have all the information on this new service, no one does yet. But from what I do know I'm not seeing why someone who is missing BIS couldn't jump on BES cloud..
    I dont think you'll ever be able to hook up BES Cloud with Google Apps, nor with outlook.com nor with yahoo, nor godaddy but all of those had BIS baked into thier services.
    01-22-14 03:28 PM
  25. joeldf's Avatar
    I know there are a lot of threads on this, but is BIS separate from 3G or LTE browsing? I am guessing it's possible to use both simultaneously?

    Posted via CB10
    BIS is basically like a VPN from your phone to the BlackBerry Network Operations Centers (NOCs). I'm over simplifying, and it's probably not accurate, just call it a similarity.

    How it gets there depends on your wireless connection; either through your carriers towers first - and there's no reason it can't be on anything from Edge to LTE connection (even though the legacy phones didn't have LTE), or over Wi-Fi.

    The connection is compressed to save on data into and out of your phone over the mobile network (secure encryption, however, was not done on BIS - that's just on BES). The legacy devices ran everything through the BIS, browsing, maps, email, and most app data. Starting with OS 6, web browsing could be done over a wi-fi connection even if BIS was down, or not even provisioned for the phone using the ol' TCP-IP. Some apps could do that too, if you wanted it. BeWeather was one such app.

    But it's also why browsing was so slow. The extra step of compression and going all the way through the NOCs before getting sent to your phone was quite a bottleneck. Especially for the highly crowded and media/ad overloaded websites of today.

    But, I understand the OPs wish here as it relates ONLY to email. Not anything else that slows the phone down. Let BIS handle pop and IMAP email for those that want it.

    As it is, all BB10 phones are still registered and connected to the NOC - that's what that little 4-dot BB symbol next to the network indicator is telling you. It's what BBM still goes through. I'll bet that what the automated email setup still goes through before sending the info back to your phone to use from then on out.

    Personally, I was not sure about the loss of BIS email for my home POP3 account, but I set it up on my phone anyway - even manually set it up without the automated method. I found it to be the same as BIS on my old 9800. Set to the same 15 minute sync interval that BIS polls at. Now, BIS did use a shorter interval after mail was found - shortened the next polling to something like 3 minutes until there was nothing there, then it would jump back to 15 minutes. BB10 syncs at the set time no matter what, but you can force a manual refresh at any time.

    The one wish I had with the legacy OS that I was very happy to see in BB10 was Exchange ActiveSync. That has made my work exchange account much easier to deal with. With my 9800, I had to tie BIS into the exchange account through OWA (my work once had BES, but they dumped it back in '08), and that left me with no over-the-air calendar or contact syncing (had to do that using Desktop Manager and a USB cable), and having to wait on that same 15 minute BIS polling period. Now, my work email hits my phone almost the exact same time as it hits my work PC.



    Posted via CB10
    01-22-14 05:52 PM
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