02-09-18 07:21 PM
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  1. bobshine's Avatar
    Why on earth should I need a phone to operate a car?

    If we're being arbitrary, why not require a tennis racquet, a camera or a puppy?

    I don't carry my phone with me when I don't have to. That would be a deal-breaker for me.
    Well apparently it will help save BB
    11-16-17 07:45 PM
  2. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Well apparently it will help save BB
    I would love to see a company try to sell that. I can just see the competitors' ad:

    A rock climber drives 50 miles on a Sunday morning to get a good climb in on a chilly fall morning. At the end of his climb, when he's exhausted and sweaty, his BlackBerry slips out of his hands and shatters into pieces on granite. We see him bang on the car window as he starts to shiver.

    Later, after he's died from hypothermia, we see the crows begin to peck at his eyeballs.

    Cut to:
    Office meeting Monday morning, as co-workers sit down with hot coffee mugs, someone asks where our hero is:

    "I don't know, but I can't wait to see his new BlackBerry-powered self-driving car!"

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    11-17-17 09:42 AM
  3. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Well if a rock climber is incompetent enough to have a loose grip on anything, he'll/she'll be the same one to be holding her car keys dangling up at 1200 feet, and dropping them somewhere into the raging river below...same result..no car. And if the rock climber looses his grip on himself....maybe no rock climber either. Then again the auto-makers always give you two keys....so the second key may be an extremely stripped/slimmed down device that carry's the auto-app only and nothing else, no screen etc...just enough to get the car going ( just one possible simple solution)...perhaps finger print, or voice print enabled, so leave it in the car at all times etc...just runs the car basics. No entertainment, no self-driving component etc.

    Of course if the phone (car key) has a catastrophic loss of beacon (assuming there's cell coverage) as opposed to an orderly shut-down due to battery low, or a regular power down....then the on-star will kick in and wait a specified period before seeing if the signal restores, contacting an alternate contact, or just sending CAA or an UBer driver or a telco driver on behalf of the automaker out with a new loaded phone to get back into the car from the last tracked location....provided the driver picked that kind of coverage. Of course those big-battery bb10 battery sipping BlackBerry's are less likely to have the battery drain right? Not like they'll have to cut a new key or anything....stock bb10 phone, loaded with the specific driver's car app, and cloud-restored profile. voila your custom key sir.

    ...just like I believe on-star can detect a vehicle collision without driver notification. except a smashed phone would alert on-star just as well.
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 11-18-17 at 03:46 AM.
    rayporsche likes this.
    11-18-17 03:35 AM
  4. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    .all that and.....why the heck didn't you get a protective case for when you take the phone out of the car? CrackBerry will sell those future designed easy to slip in and slip out cases won't they?
    11-18-17 04:13 AM
  5. bobshine's Avatar
    .all that and.....why the heck didn't you get a protective case for when you take the phone out of the car? CrackBerry will sell those future designed easy to slip in and slip out cases won't they?
    This thing will never pass government regulators.

    So if the battery is dead, then what? The entire brain of the car is in the phone. You’ll have to wait for it to recharge?

    What about cold weather? I would sometime go run in cold weather outside and my phone goes berserk.

    And what if you want to leave your phone home? Or they going to provide a mini phone too? Will that have enough processing power to power all the car components? Or I won’t have a radio, gps?

    And what about car accidents??? Will they have to make all cellphone rugged? Cause car components, including the computer has to withstand certain g force and certain accidents. Are people willing to carry a rugged phones around?

    And what if you got your phone stolen on a roadtrip??? Cause obviously your phone is much more out of your pocket then keys. So your stranded?

    Are you trying to make BB go bankrupt???
    11-18-17 09:17 AM
  6. conite's Avatar
    .all that and.....why the heck didn't you get a protective case for when you take the phone out of the car? CrackBerry will sell those future designed easy to slip in and slip out cases won't they?
    So if your phone is lost, broken, stolen, or glitching, you can't drive home?
    11-18-17 09:51 AM
  7. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    What nobody has mentioned, sorry if I missed it, is what happens when the phone that controls your two or three year old car no longer runs the applications you need for work or want for social media. Do you carry two phones? An engine computer costs two to three times what a smartphone does, packing all that kind of capability into even the largest phone form factor could double or triple the cost again. Do you pay that penalty? You could trade up but what does a three year old smartphone that has to be given some sort of a plan do for the resale value of the car?

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.3.2205
    11-18-17 10:24 AM
  8. app_Developer's Avatar
    So this whole idea is to save BB10 phones. Along the way I’ve heard zero advantages to the car companies who make these decisions. I’ve heard zero advantages to the users who would have to choose this car over others that contain all the active electronics they need to operate.

    And I’ve heard multiple risks and disadvantages.

    Is that about right?
    11-18-17 10:54 AM
  9. naijab0y's Avatar
    Dear BlackBerry,

    We are your loyal and dedicated patrons of your devices. We believe in BlackBerry, and BB10 namely because of its security, privacy, and the fact that it gave us an option.

    Please don't kill the OS. It is fantastic and it's worth a second look.

    While the direction to move to Android was understandable for the sake of the "app gap," makes little sense due to the direct argument in underlying principles: BlackBerry, a mobile and enterprise security company and Google, an advertising company. While you may have found a way to secure the Android phone, make it enterprise grade, the fact of the matter is that the principal of privacy, who we call, who we know, what we do, where we go are all for sale on the Android platforms.

    The BB10 die-hards know this, some have refused to use Android apps due to the unnecessary privileges requested. Others utilize APM or Ops App to control these permissions.

    Others, hacked Google Playstore to work and have worked around Google services altogether.

    But with BB10 at least we have a choice. It could have gone even further, natively controlling Android app permissions. Saying be damned with the Playstore and providing a hacked variant of the apps, bending them to the privacy needs of the users.

    After so much investment, and so much loss, it wasn't that BB10 wasn't a great OS, It still is relevant. It's that it didn't go far enough!

    At the very least, give us the choice to give our entire identify, our lives to Google. Return to your roots and give us a secure phone that is not just private in name, but actually private, because the principles of the underlying company, cares.

    ***

    All, with your comments, we can amend or append. I'd like to hear what you would say.

    Posted via CB10
    Say's the person who ain't exactly investing or spending the money and has to answer to investors. Mobile phone users are way to selfish with their reasoning. Even almighty Microsoft was smart enough to exit the market quickly.
    11-18-17 11:02 AM
  10. CBuser3215's Avatar
    Say's the person who ain't exactly investing or spending the money and has to answer to investors. Mobile phone users are way to selfish with their reasoning. Even almighty Microsoft was smart enough to exit the market quickly.
    Back under your bridge troll! Show me YOUR BBRY securities ! I certainly have a vested interest in the success of BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    11-18-17 11:08 AM
  11. Invictus0's Avatar
    Even almighty Microsoft was smart enough to exit the market quickly.
    Nearly 20 years, or 7 years at the very least is quick?
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    11-18-17 11:15 AM
  12. app_Developer's Avatar
    Back under your bridge troll! Show me YOUR BBRY securities ! I certainly have a vested interest in the success of BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    Many of us have an economic interest in BB. So do Watsa and Chen. That’s exactly why they won’t spend any more of their or our money on BB10.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 11-18-17 at 11:35 AM.
    11-18-17 11:23 AM
  13. naijab0y's Avatar
    Back under your bridge troll! Show me YOUR BBRY securities ! I certainly have a vested interest in the success of BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    Good luck then.
    11-18-17 12:24 PM
  14. bobshine's Avatar
    So this whole idea is to save BB10 phones. Along the way I’ve heard zero advantages to the car companies who make these decisions. I’ve heard zero advantages to the users who would have to choose this car over others that contain all the active electronics they need to operate.

    And I’ve heard multiple risks and disadvantages.

    Is that about right?
    Yup! Sums it up pretty well!
    11-18-17 12:41 PM
  15. stlabrat's Avatar
    am i missing something? QNX is full OS with background of instrumental control that usually does not consider the power consumption (plugged in to the wall of the instrument usually). BB10 was slim down version of QNX that can operated at low power. The QNX is both power and memory hungry compare to BB10. Why I want my car operated at stripe down OS (short cut or cut the corner always have trade offs)? I can see BB10 (or better BB13 if it lived that long with Radar) used as UI interface, may be with some entertainment stuff - music, movie, game (just in case you get bored with just look at the car drive itself), but leave all the navigation, driving, sensing to the car. Better, the car should have build in carrier interface (not wifi... too slow) interface using 5G (within 1 meter). As for all those embedded bits and pieces, it need Tesla type ground up design to get it resolved (or like aircraft, centralize std spec with one company - boeing, LMT, etc.). not BB currently supply embedded with many different car makers... (Ford hired so many BBers, may be doing something other than integration)... otherwise, it spell trouble (car is not like air plane, it much closer to adjacent body... not like boat, it got much high speed... the combination of the two: close proximity and high speed, if your sensor, control, etc. are in different processors that needed complex scheduling.. it just scary.. recall some ententainment system in airplane overwhelm the navigation system power management system by tag on to it... close call. if it is in the car with high speed busy hi-way, it might be desaster... ). i am glad most of chaps want BB10 to drive your car are only the talkers and dreamers... otherwise, I need to open a new bottle of 150 proof to face the new reality... (make sure not going to get ran over in the street by sleep in the day time)...
    11-18-17 01:26 PM
  16. bobshine's Avatar
    I think TV manufacturers should include a BB10 smartphone when they design their TVs. All the TV features would be on the phone and the TV will just act as a screen. Why do we have twice the apps... like netflix... once on the Tv and once on my Z30.... oh wait... lol
    11-18-17 04:23 PM
  17. early2bed's Avatar
    BB10: A second-tier smartphone operating system in search of an application. WebOS did eventually make it into a TV and a refrigerator so there's still hope for some kind of security-oriented connected appliance. You certainly wouldn't want anyone hacking into your smart toilet or hot water heater. That would be awful.
    11-18-17 04:57 PM
  18. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    This thing will never pass government regulators.
    Rev 1.0c (additional detail)

    Neither will the Tesla (lol)

    So if the battery is dead, then what? The entire brain of the car is in the phone. You’ll have to wait for it to recharge?
    So two scenarios....a smart-car-phone with an enabled and installed auto-maker app.requests and locks (granted by the os's battery routines)..2%or x % of power (ambient and or forecast temperature determined) in reserve till, the driver gets back to the car (just to unlock the doors nfc like mind you). (Side benefit, allows a last-ditch emergency call capablility to a secure BlackBerry if so desired ) Once it is reconnected to the car's charging system, no doubt it could recharge and operate at the same time with no loss of processing power. Another Bogeyman bites the dust. The second scenario...of a truly dead battery, is a by-pass direct power design (which is in phones currently no, bypassing the dead battery? drawing on the car's power systems for charge.
    What about cold weather? I would sometime go run in cold weather outside and my phone goes berserk.
    Phone only needs to connect to the car, the ignition button may or may not actually be on the phone , so if you are worried about the touch screen interface no problems, and presumably your phone is kept indoors or close to your body. Also not being an IphoneX you may not have those cold-temp problems (lol). You won't be leaving your phone in the car in minus 20 weather overnight or all day. I imagine your car will alert you to remove the phone if you are absent minded before locking the car door, or prevent you from locking if it is still inside (wow won't that be great!!!! )- do you know how many times a dead battery keyfob resulted in using the manual key for a car, and then got left accidentally in the car - requiring a call or break-in to retrieve the car)

    And what if you want to leave your phone home? Or they going to provide a mini phone too? Will that have enough processing power to power all the car components? Or I won’t have a radio, gps?
    What if you want to leave your traditional car keys or house keys at home? That Q kind of answers itself. You won't be taking your car then. simple. What you mght be referring to is a stripped down backup-key of a non-phone slab without a screen whatsoever (of extreme low cost) as an emergency backup to operate the car. Yes probably no gps, no nothing....you're on a "manual (minimal bells-and-whistles)" stick for the backup scenario....hope that isn't to scary for you' all. But the automaker can decide the features of the low-cost emergency key...from a full-blown second phone to a much lower cost as described, and possibly any combination of function on the scale between the two. Mind you the automaker due to cost considerations would probably only be able to select one point on the functionality scale, and not multiple.

    And what about car accidents??? Will they have to make all cellphone rugged? Cause car components, including the computer has to withstand certain g force and certain accidents. Are people willing to carry a rugged phones around?
    Not a problem, if the passenger compartment is so compromised by an accident....you won't be driving your write-off home anyways.
    But yes the ignition locked slot that the phone resides in will require some engineering hardening once this becomes a production model, but the phone itself -no. Simply still the phone. However a design consideration may take into account a properly designed car-phone case (for when you are carrying around as a phone)

    And what if you got your phone stolen on a roadtrip??? Cause obviously your phone is much more out of your pocket then keys. So your stranded?
    Don't leave it lying around, as you shouldn't your keys. There again, pick up a new one and download your car app from the cloud (maybe a maintenace fee from the automaker for having to make you a new set of virtual keys), then you are off and running. Who pays? Theft? Well insurance . ...and the car app will probably lead the police to your phone (and you to its last whereabouts, once you get online to look for it) , once reported lost/stolen. Of course Blackberry wouldn't let you wipe the phone without proper BlackBerry Protect car app code. Out of pocket? Maybe...but probably not too much more than currently, ever tried to replace some of the current keyfobs? They can get pricey. And heck if you're still going to replace your cellphone every 2-5years, you just re-download your car model's app each time you get a new phone. If the market is still in that same shape down the road - that is uncertain that it will remain so. (But by all means if you want to keep the original smartcarphone that comes with the car, there's nothing to stop that either, a new phone will just give you an additional car key, if you want.)

    Are you trying to make BB go bankrupt???
    No I think I'm trying to make BB go again (or grow again). Bean counters can't count anything, unless there is an idea sketched out before them. And no the entire market will not suddenly embrace this...who's holding tesla up right now anyways?
    Do we have to have to do all the design jam session on CrackBerry? Should I ask Blackberry or whoever who adopts the idea to pay-what-you-can? Or should I begin the patent process?
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 11-18-17 at 09:02 PM.
    11-18-17 08:08 PM
  19. bobshine's Avatar
    Neither will the Tesla (lol)


    So two scenarios....a car phone apps...reserves 2%or x % power till it gets back to the car (just to unlock the doors nfc like mind you). Once it is reconnected to the car's charging system, no doubt it could recharge and operate at the same time with no loss of processing power. Another Bogeyman bites the dust. The second scenario...of a truly dead battery, is a by-pass direct power design (which is in phones currently no, bypassing the dead battery?)

    Phone only needs to connect to the car, the ignition button may or may not actually be on the phone , so if you are worried about the touch screen interface no problems, and presumably your phone is kept indoors or close to your body. Also not being an IphoneX you may not have those cold-temp problems (lol). You won't be leaving your phone in the car in minus 20 weather overnight or all day. I imagine your car will alert you to remove the phone if you are absent minded before locking the car door, or prevent you from locking if it is still inside (wow won't that be great!!!! )- do you know how many times a dead battery keyfob resulted in using the manual key for a car, and then got left accidentally in the car - requiring a call or break-in to retrieve the car)

    What if you want to leave your traditional car keys or house keys at home? That Q kind of answers itself. You won't be taking your car then. simple. What you mght be referring to is a stripped down backup-key of a non-phone slab without a screne (of extreme low cost) as an emergency backup to operate the car. Yes probably no gps, no nothing....you're on a "manual (minimal bells-and-whistles)" stick for the backup scenario....hope that isn't to scary for you' all. But the automaker can decide the features of the low-cost emergency key...from a full-blown second phone to a much lower cost as described, and possibly any combination of function on the scale between the two. Mind you the automaker due to cost considerations would probably only be able to select one point on the functionality scale, and not multiple.


    Not a problem, if the passenger compartment is so compromised by an accident....you won't be driving your write-off home anyways.
    But yes the ignition locked slot that the phone resides in will require some engineering hardening once this becomes a production model, but the phone itself -no. Simply still the phone. However a design consideration may take into account a properly designed car-phone case (for when you are carrying around as a phone)

    Don't leave it lying around, as you shouldn't your keys. There again, pick up a new one and download your car app from the cloud (maybe a maintenace fee from the automaker for having to make you a new set of virtual keys), then you are off and running. Who pays? Theft? Well insurance . ...and the car app will probably lead the police to your phone (and you to its last whereabouts, once you get online to look for it) , once reported lost/stolen. Of course Blackberry wouldn't let you wipe the phone without proper BlackBerry Protect car app code.


    No I think I'm trying to make BB go again (or grow again). Bean counters can't count anything, unless there is an idea sketched out before them. And no the entire market will not suddenly embrace this...who's holding tesla up right now anyways?
    Do we have to have to do all the design jam session on CrackBerry? Should I ask Blackberry or whoever who adopts the idea to pay-what-you-can? Or should I begin the patent process?
    We can argue forever but this idea doesn’t hold up. Maybe in fantaisie world but not in real world.

    Phones doesn’t work in cold weather whereas cars has to be fully functional at -20C. If your phone happens to be frozen (cause you went for a run), it will take time for it to war up... even if it’s plugged it.

    And your idea of battery reserve is absurd. If a phone goes sub zero, that battery reserve will simply drain. Oups! No car! How do you actually open the door??? How will the car start? Oh yeah... wait 10 minutes for the phone to resuscitate from deep discharge... OH! Hopefully you have your charger with you!

    And what the idea of forcing people to buy BB phone? What car manufacturers would run knocking at BB’s door and beg them to have their phone control their car???

    And what about customers? The reason why BB failed is thinking the way your thinking: forcing their ideas on their customer base. Why would a car manufacturer force BB phones on their customers? WTF?

    Reminds me of the NFC card payment fiasco how... instead of looking after clients need, they said: ok for to work you need to be with this specific bank with this specific carrier.

    Success in business is about listening to customers. Not forcing them to choose... so they can save BB.
    11-18-17 08:28 PM
  20. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    BB10: A second-tier smartphone operating system in search of an application. WebOS did eventually make it into a TV and a refrigerator so there's still hope for some kind of security-oriented connected appliance. You certainly wouldn't want anyone hacking into your smart toilet or hot water heater. That would be awful.
    What exactly would a smart-toilet do? Regulate the amount of water in the bowl, and in the water-flush based on the size of the dump, for water starved areas, like california/arizona/nevada etc? I think california should just go-back to the outhouse and keep that water for the crops (not the craps). (lol) Smartwater crop systems sound like the ticket though.

    But I take issue with 2nd tier (bb10)......ios is like a 5year old's fischer-price toy...lots of shiney colours and a few buttons but not a lot of flexibility. Android is like your teenager's disgustingly messy bedroom where you have to dig around and can't tell the dirty laundry from the clean unless you get your nose up close and uncomfortable, and bb10 is more like those miniture scale mostly metal toys where everything works just like the full-sized powered ones, but requires far less energy to operate (lol).
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 11-18-17 at 09:23 PM.
    11-18-17 08:33 PM
  21. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I think TV manufacturers should include a BB10 smartphone when they design their TVs. All the TV features would be on the phone and the TV will just act as a screen. Why do we have twice the apps... like netflix... once on the Tv and once on my Z30.... oh wait... lol
    .....and yet such a scenario does exist (sort-of) in todays market....its called the smartstick (tiny pc attached to the big-screen tv). Turning the dumb-tube into a smart-like tv.(or even overriding a smart tv's quickly outdated features with even newer and smarter ones) I think MS sold the Atom-processor based ones and intel has recently come out with much more powerful ones....i dunno about 3-5 times the size of a large usb-stick. Not to mention roku and the slightly illegallish sounding android stuff all the neighbours are relying on for free-like-cable.(Gosh will they eventually do that to the automakers if this kind of stuff gets put on an Android phone?)
    https://www.cnet.com/products/intel-compute-stick-2016/
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 11-18-17 at 09:19 PM.
    11-18-17 08:40 PM
  22. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    We can argue forever but this idea doesn’t hold up. Maybe in fantaisie world but not in real world.

    Phones doesn’t work in cold weather whereas cars has to be fully functional at -20C. If your phone happens to be frozen (cause you went for a run), it will take time for it to war up... even if it’s plugged it.

    And your idea of battery reserve is absurd. If a phone goes sub zero, that battery reserve will simply drain. Oups! No car! How do you actually open the door??? How will the car start? Oh yeah... wait 10 minutes for the phone to resuscitate from deep discharge... OH! Hopefully you have your charger with you!

    And what the idea of forcing people to buy BB phone? What car manufacturers would run knocking at BB’s door and beg them to have their phone control their car???

    And what about customers? The reason why BB failed is thinking the way your thinking: forcing their ideas on their customer base. Why would a car manufacturer force BB phones on their customers? WTF?

    Reminds me of the NFC card payment fiasco how... instead of looking after clients need, they said: ok for to work you need to be with this specific bank with this specific carrier.

    Success in business is about listening to customers. Not forcing them to choose... so they can save BB.
    The only way your phone will be -20 when you went out for a jog (hillarious by the way)...is if you went jogging in speedos, and in that case the phone might be the last of your worries about what died.
    Sure go do an engineering study of the temp of your phone while inside your pocket in minus 20 weather. It won't be -20, it might be 1 or 2 degrees....but again you can mitigate for that if you are within the grip of the artic wintery blasts. Take em up to the cold-weather auto testing stations in Northern Ontario and give them the naked jogger test if you want.

    (....and maybe its back to old-school. dead-battery...replaceable batteries! Wow I just thought of that, I should get that patent for sure!)
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 11-18-17 at 10:03 PM.
    11-18-17 08:47 PM
  23. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Dear customer, because Android is a monopoly, we the automakers shall lie down prostrate before the mighty Almighty Gog of Google, and shall never turn our gaze from Thee to those venturesome BlackBerrians.....HillBilly handheld fishers they be.
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 11-18-17 at 09:00 PM.
    11-18-17 08:49 PM
  24. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    So if your phone is lost, broken, stolen, or glitching, you can't drive home?
    I imagine the play part of the smartphone will be possibly siloed by QNX from the critical auto processes, and they will be protected while driving while the glitchy processes would be shut-down as the QNX kernel would isolate the bad-behavers or just shut-down that entire smartphone section while driving if necessary. Glitchyness is likely due to less than industrial strength app development on the consumer space of the phone, while the car side will be the same industrial design as currently resides under the hood, and then some. The problem with lost,broken or stolen phones is the same as with car keys today....except popping in and getting a new phone and downloading your app from the cloud will be as easy, or even easier than cutting a new key for your car. Just go to your telco get a phone, then bring to the dealer to load the app (or a variety of 1 stop solutions) or diy (depending on the automaker's desired service delivery channel options)

    I imagine the system-critical auto-processes will be even more robust than the best of QNX protected iot devices.
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 11-18-17 at 10:00 PM.
    11-18-17 09:36 PM
  25. bobshine's Avatar
    What exactly would a smart-toilet do? Regulate the amount of water in the bowl, and in the water-flush based on the size of the dump, for water starved areas, like california/arizona/nevada etc? I think california should just go-back to the outhouse and keep that water for the crops (not the craps). (lol) Smartwater crop systems sound like the ticket though.

    But I take issue with 2nd tier (bb10)......ios is like a 5year old's fischer-price toy...lots of shiney colours and a few buttons but not a lot of flexibility. Android is like your teenager's disgustingly messy bedroom where you have to dig around and can't tell the dirty laundry from the clean unless you get your nose up close and uncomfortable, and bb10 is more like those miniture scale mostly metal toys where everything works just like the full-sized powered ones, but requires far less energy to operate (lol).
    Nothing shows that BB10 is power efficient. On the contrary, it seems much more power hungry that iOS... that uses much smaller battery and has optimized their software to their hardware
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    11-18-17 11:09 PM
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