03-30-18 02:48 PM
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  1. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Not necessarily conite . It may be that it's not , as you opine , coming. But Thurber said that they were working on it and that BlackBerry was continuing to support BB10 and their BB customers, which interestingly seems to include the legacy OS. So it could also be that 10.3.4 is coming but not anytime soon. Or it could be, since BlackBerry can't update the ART , that the update will be rather different than the current version, like BB11 maybe.
    And who is developing it? They got rid of the whole development team and even sold the buildings.
    11-13-17 05:54 PM
  2. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Glad to see you're ok Dave....
    Dave? Dave's not here, man.
    11-13-17 06:01 PM
  3. stlabrat's Avatar
    BB haven’t innovated in years in hardware. I would prefer seeing them seeing some inroad in software. The hardware battle is between Goliath and Goliath now (Apple and Samsung)... don’t think there’s room for a third player
    5G handset hardware is not even in play as yet (few so called 5G are not truely operated at radar frequency... you can check so called "1st 5G handset"). No std even come out yet. It is fair game for everybody (yes, money did play a role, but not the only one... talent, some times hard to be purchased... such as the prof. at UK spend one day to crack iphone... access is the key). As for BB. I don't believe they ad for the job to be someone capable of design how to enchor a box on the car (see below)... 5G signal integrity and protection is not everybody cup of tea... (especially, with everybody else using radar for navigation...intefrerence is something to consider). https://bb.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com/en-...?source=indeed
    11-13-17 06:40 PM
  4. bobshine's Avatar
    5G handset hardware is not even in play as yet (few so called 5G are not truely operated at radar frequency... you can check so called "1st 5G handset"). No std even come out yet. It is fair game for everybody (yes, money did play a role, but not the only one... talent, some times hard to be purchased... such as the prof. at UK spend one day to crack iphone... access is the key). As for BB. I don't believe they ad for the job to be someone capable of design how to enchor a box on the car (see below)... 5G signal integrity and protection is not everybody cup of tea... (especially, with everybody else using radar for navigation...intefrerence is something to consider). https://bb.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com/en-...?source=indeed
    Yeah I know it’s not at play... LTE isn’t even fully exploited yet.
    11-13-17 08:00 PM
  5. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Now I could see a QNX microkernel bb10 inheritor smartphone (okay maybe even revert to the name carphone or BB-Key) acting as the GM brain and ignition key of these little babies, but not an android nor an apple can't anyone else?

    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/gms-electr...2--sector.html
    11-13-17 10:47 PM
  6. app_Developer's Avatar
    Now I could see a QNX microkernel bb10 inheritor smartphone (okay maybe even revert to the name carphone or BB-Key) acting as the GM brain and ignition key of these little babies, but not an android nor an apple can't anyone else?

    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/gms-electr...2--sector.html
    Why would the purchaser of this car want another smartphone on top of or instead of the smartphone she already has?

    Just put the controller in the car and let the buyer use whatever smartphone she likes. Support Android Car and Car Play so that her choice of smartphone integrates nicely with the car she just paid a lot of money to lease/buy.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    11-13-17 10:54 PM
  7. mf1982's Avatar
    Now I could see a QNX microkernel bb10 inheritor smartphone (okay maybe even revert to the name carphone or BB-Key) acting as the GM brain and ignition key of these little babies, but not an android nor an apple can't anyone else?

    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/gms-electr...2--sector.html
    No, this is not a practical idea at all.

    I have EV's in the house but would never buy one that needs my cell phone to operate it as its brain. There are so many practical problems with needing one's cell phone to operate a vehicle as its brain that this idea is dead on arrival.

    Each car will need it's own computer installed in it. QNX will power many of them, but a BB10 phone will not.

    Posted via CB10
    11-13-17 11:00 PM
  8. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Why would the purchaser of this car want another smartphone on top of or instead of the smartphone she already has?

    Just put the controller in the car and let the buyer use whatever smartphone she likes. Support Android Car and Car Play so that her choice of smartphone integrates nicely with the car she just paid a lot of money to lease/buy.
    Comes with the car...(or free on a BB10 like successor phone with the QNX core) ...hmmm why would the purchaser want that other phone now (probably wouldn't work well or pass Gov't safety requirements on a non-QNX core) ....good question. Certainly a Car is the ultimate killer app (lol).....and true that other phone has that crappy non microkernel os running inside....so yeah its not up to task....wonder what those entertainments systems are anyways...pretty much a smartphone with a YUGE display, and without all the apps (yet) grant it.
    11-13-17 11:08 PM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    Comes with the car....hmmm why would the purchaser want that other phone now....good question. Certainly a Car is the ultimate killer app (lol)
    So GM should drive up the price of the car (not in their interest)

    The user should lose access to all her other apps and services that work well on her Android (not in her interest)

    And if she wants to upgrade her phone whilst still owning this car she is now unable to get any of the popular phones (or have to carry 2 phones).

    All of this so that GM can try to keep alive an absurd BB10 fantasy?
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    11-13-17 11:13 PM
  10. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Comes with the car...(or free on a BB10 like successor phone with the QNX core) ...hmmm why would the purchaser want that other phone now (probably wouldn't work well or pass Gov't safety requirements on a non-QNX core) ....good question. Certainly a Car is the ultimate killer app (lol).....and true that other phone has that crappy non microkernel os running inside....so yeah its not up to task....wonder what those entertainment systems are anyways...pretty much a smartphone with a YUGE display, and without all the apps (yet) grant it..........and I think a fellow posted elsewhere of IBM's new short-distance (1metre) massive data pipeline - if wireless - otherwise maybe usb-2.0, 3.0 or later makes the grade. That's a lot of valuable performance profile data and black-box for the automaker easily accessed by them potentially
    11-13-17 11:19 PM
  11. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    So GM should drive up the price of the car (not in their interest)

    The user should lose access to all her other apps and services that work well on her Android (not in her interest)

    And if she wants to upgrade her phone whilst still owning this car she is now unable to get any of the popular phones (or have to carry 2 phones).

    All of this so that GM can try to keep alive an absurd BB10 fantasy?
    Who said it drives up the price of the car significantly or at all....if it replaces a large chunk of the processing of the infotainment minus the large touch-screen perhaps, and computer in the engine compartment? Seat-belts also drove up the price, and so did-air bags....but hmmm they still seem to be in reach of the average family/worker. No, that's bb10/qnx keeping the car-ownership innovation dream alive, not the other way around......how many ringtones will the car horn customization now have?(lol)...lots of iot wire replacement possibly (especially helpful in the rust belt).....and the sales numbers....wow, even if just a slice.

    What? Are you now going to complain that Android won't have the 'must-have' app? (lol).

    Okay all you chumps who dropped app support in bb10....get crackin' and start portin' (not terribly onerous anyways) or you'll now be left in the dust.
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 11-13-17 at 11:50 PM.
    11-13-17 11:25 PM
  12. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    And who is developing it? They got rid of the whole development team and even sold the buildings.
    Apparently Santa's elves.... as we are in fantasy land now.
    11-14-17 07:51 AM
  13. glwerry's Avatar
    1)Product Marketing....notify existing users by push....bb10 is not dead (device/BBM ) especially corp/gov , a you pay for life-extension update is coming within 3-6months, new product within 18months. Other ...yes identify what improvements are asap.
    2)Training to code bb10? Really? is C/C++ now a rare commodity? 3months to train bb10 internals/architecture/design methodology/standards max. Then some slow change progressing depending on experience. How many of those bb10 guys are retired or semi, I wonder....good mentorship program there if there are any kicking about. Return some key architects to the fold (perhaps profit-share)
    3)1st major update 8-12months out (perhaps continual minor patches before that every 30/60 days or after initial 5month period, subscription based of course).
    4)64bit new bb10-64 mid-level device 12-18months out....annual or 18 month rollout thereafter if moderately successful.
    5)spin-off the bb10 as a separate division/startup - wholly owned.
    6)Stay with android license as well - there's a niche for that (separate team), for those who care a whit about privacy.
    7)Brand recognition is still brand recognition.
    8) tic-toc, tic-toc

    "3months to train bb10 internals/architecture/design methodology/standards max." - Oh, please! BULL****!!

    Do you have any programming background at all?

    First off, you are assuming that you will be able to find/hire a BB10 GURU to do the training!
    Also, you are going to need to have all of this money in place UP FRONT.

    And, at the end of the day you have the harsh, cold reality that you will be releasing this software on 2014 (OLD!!!!!!!!!) hardware.
    If I'm a corporation who is looking at having reliable phones/communication devices I am NOT going to be running out to try and scrounge up 4 year old hardware to run my corporation on.

    I make these statements from someone with > 35 years experience in software - I have broken new employees in on complex HR and Payroll systems - it takes YEARS to really learn software products, not months.
    There are also other posters who run development teams for a LIVING who are shooting down the numbers.

    Before you put out a rebuttal, please tell us what your expertise is, what makes your point of view more informed / valid than ours.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    11-14-17 08:49 AM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    We seem to have a disconnect in this forum between a pure thought experiment, with no real-world constraints, and more grounded, practical responses rooted in how hardware and software engineering actually happens in the private sector.

    It seems pretty clear that neither side is going to accept the others' assumptions:

    1) That the laws of economics don't apply and anything that is physically possible might actually happen, such as an investor wanting to take a chance on BB10 and 10s of millions of people buying BB10 devices in 2018+.

    or

    2) That any discussions of the future possibilities for BB10 should be considered in the context of what is plausible, or at least feasible, in the real world, such as capital and HR requirements or the need to see measurable demand in the market before investing in a new/old mobile OS.

    With such basic differences in assumptions seemingly irreconcilable, I think this thread may have run its course.



    Posted with my trusty Z10
    11-14-17 09:07 AM
  15. joeldf's Avatar
    I'm all for dreaming. I do it all the time as Architect. You start off with something wild, then work it down to something the client can actually build and I still like. Still, unless I'm working for a company that has large scale anti-gravity technology, I'm not going to start off with putting my project on a cloud.

    So, to argue something to the exclusion of reality because... well... butterflies, rainbows and unicorns... is just wasted effort.

    Sharing a dream is fine. I'm all for the ideas that the OP started with. But arguing over it, saying "by golly, this CAN be done because the sky is blue" is where it starts to get a bit ridiculous.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    11-14-17 10:07 AM
  16. kvndoom's Avatar
    We seem to have a disconnect in this forum between a pure thought experiment, with no real-world constraints, and more grounded, practical responses rooted in how hardware and software engineering actually happens in the private sector.

    It seems pretty clear that neither side is going to accept the others' assumptions:

    1) That the laws of economics don't apply and anything that is physically possible might actually happen, such as an investor wanting to take a chance on BB10 and 10s of millions of people buying BB10 devices in 2018+.

    or

    2) That any discussions of the future possibilities for BB10 should be considered in the context of what is plausible, or at least feasible, in the real world, such as capital and HR requirements or the need to see measurable demand in the market before investing in a new/old mobile OS.

    With such basic differences in assumptions seemingly irreconcilable, I think this thread may have run its course.



    Posted with my trusty Z10
    It doesn't matter. If they lock it, another one will be started next week. And the week after. And the week after. And the week after. And the week after. And the week after. ---> ∞
    11-14-17 10:11 AM
  17. joeldf's Avatar
    It doesn't matter. If they lock it, another one will be started next week. And the week after. And the week after. And the week after. And the week after. And the week after. ---> ∞
    They seem to pop up more often than that...

    11-14-17 10:25 AM
  18. bobshine's Avatar
    Now I could see a QNX microkernel bb10 inheritor smartphone (okay maybe even revert to the name carphone or BB-Key) acting as the GM brain and ignition key of these little babies, but not an android nor an apple can't anyone else?

    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/gms-electr...2--sector.html
    I would love to see some numbers but to my knowledge, QNX isn’t running many EV.

    BB also doesn’t have any ressources to research EV or self driving cars... which is the future brain of cars. I actually see Android (or some version of it) or iOS doing it one day since both compagnies are investing heavily in it. QNX is way way behind.
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    11-14-17 01:51 PM
  19. mf1982's Avatar
    BlackBerry is actively developing autonomous vehicles. As far as I know, they have the permits to test them on public roads around Waterloo and Ottawa and have received funding from the government of Ontario to support the research.

    Posted via CB10
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    11-14-17 02:19 PM
  20. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I would love to see some numbers but to my knowledge, QNX isn’t running many EV.

    BB also doesn’t have any ressources to research EV or self driving cars... which is the future brain of cars. I actually see Android (or some version of it) or iOS doing it one day since both compagnies are investing heavily in it. QNX is way way behind.
    Well that would require strategic partnerships with one or more automotive makers or suppliers. You would obviously meld the expertise of each in their own fields. Again this idea could fit traditional gas/diesal powered transports personal or cargo and or electric....however the virtue signalling subsidies are currently on the electric side. So that might be the place to begin. The apps would be a joint project of both BlackBerry and the respective current auto technology holders. BB is in the EV arena already, and QNX has been for some time already. But BB has to sell the dream. Android is flawed for this type of application...QNX is not, in the merged MOBILE life of the car and the cellphone. Yes there might be a need to inject capital, depends on the business model.
    After all BlackBerry is Research in Motion.
    11-14-17 03:06 PM
  21. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    BlackBerry is actively developing autonomous vehicles. As far as I know, they have the permits to test them on public roads around Waterloo and Ottawa and have received funding from the government of Ontario to support the research.

    Posted via CB10
    They just did a test last month on the streets.... but it was a test loop that had been setup with special traffic light, special markers, and streetlights (not sure what part they play - more transmitters). It was far from an open road test

    Even QNX has acknowledged that most large car manufactures want to control the "BRAINS" of the vehicle. Their focus is on supporting that brain with all the "infrastructure, the security, the safety, the redundancy, the communication, how the signals come in.” Their autonomous car program is a dog and pony show to keep them in the conversation, probable more with smaller vendors or suppliers of systems that would be part of the overall end product.

    And FYI... Apple and Google aren't using iOS and Android in their test platforms. Those are for UI at most.
    11-14-17 03:24 PM
  22. Richard Buckley's Avatar
    I would love to see some numbers but to my knowledge, QNX isn’t running many EV.

    BB also doesn’t have any ressources to research EV or self driving cars... which is the future brain of cars. I actually see Android (or some version of it) or iOS doing it one day since both compagnies are investing heavily in it. QNX is way way behind.
    As Dunt x 3 said, neither iOS nor Android would be used as the controlling platform for an autonomous vehicle, but neither would bb10. QNX however is the the platform controlling many car system and will probably be involved in some way in many of the autonomous vehicle systems that eventually come to market. Autonomous control is a hard real time problem that can't be solved using the kind of scheduling technology that makes for a good user experience.

    http://whatis.techtarget.com/definit...al-time-system

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.3.2205
    11-14-17 03:46 PM
  23. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    "3months to train bb10 internals/architecture/design methodology/standards max." - Oh, please! BULL****!!

    Do you have any programming background at all?

    First off, you are assuming that you will be able to find/hire a BB10 GURU to do the training!
    Also, you are going to need to have all of this money in place UP FRONT.

    And, at the end of the day you have the harsh, cold reality that you will be releasing this software on 2014 (OLD!!!!!!!!!) hardware.
    If I'm a corporation who is looking at having reliable phones/communication devices I am NOT going to be running out to try and scrounge up 4 year old hardware to run my corporation on.

    I make these statements from someone with > 35 years experience in software - I have broken new employees in on complex HR and Payroll systems - it takes YEARS to really learn software products, not months.
    There are also other posters who run development teams for a LIVING who are shooting down the numbers.

    Before you put out a rebuttal, please tell us what your expertise is, what makes your point of view more informed / valid than ours.
    Yes if you work on monolith systems, this would sound impossible....even MS has gotten into the habit of continual release (Agile like development) - security patches mostley, but maybe some drivers and bug patches.
    Hope you aren't one of those guys working on the Cdn Federal Gov't's Payroll system (lol). We're not talking about a million convoluted business rules scenario software and the dogs breakfast that can be - real programmers tend to hate that. The assumption is familiarity with this development platform (smartphone) or similiar (like iOS or Android) and/or good programming/systems Eng skills. We're not rewriting a system here, we're making incremental improvements until you get to the point of migration to a new/faster 64bit platform.
    Yes recruiting is assumed completed before those initial kickoff points.....

    OMG! Like 2014 (or 2015/16) is like so valley girl...dinosaur-o-sororiety. My Apple just fell out of a tree and bonked me in the noggins.
    I think i can't, I think i can't, I think i can't.....chug.. chug...chug....screeetch!!! poof!

    Just for fun does anyone realize that OS/2 Warp is still kicking around with a new 2017 update. No lies. Not by IBM though. Care to google its new name? The Blue Lion, or ArcaOS 5.0 (frankly I think they should have kept OS/2 Warp in the name, but WHO AM I? to say).
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 11-15-17 at 04:38 AM.
    11-14-17 09:13 PM
  24. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    As Dunt x 3 said, neither iOS nor Android would be used as the controlling platform for an autonomous vehicle, but neither would bb10. QNX however is the the platform controlling many car system and will probably be involved in some way in many of the autonomous vehicle systems that eventually come to market. Autonomous control is a hard real time problem that can't be solved using the kind of scheduling technology that makes for a good user experience.

    What is hard real-time system (immediate real-time system)? - Definition from WhatIs.com

    LeapSTR100-2/10.3.3.2205
    Yes that is all true. Yet BB10-like running over QNX absolutely could. BB10 running on top of a RTOS QNX kernel didn't make for a good user experience? Of course it did. BB10 already plays nice with QNX, can't see why the brains or at least some of the functionality can't eventually make it to the smartphone itself instead of onboard. Unless you can prove it requires magnitudes of order more processing power than the next/gen smartphone chip won't be able to rise to - due to powersipping requirements. However the point is, it doesn't necessarily have to house "all" of the autonomous functions (it might handle some), it clearly could handle the existing requirements of battery/electric/combustion engine cars today and for the foreseeable future and likely some of the autonomous functions...and not sitting in the extreme temperature environment of the engine compartment while powered off, gives it some possible engineering simplification. It could even conceivably have reduced scheduling or even restricted functionality while operating the vehicle (like maybe no background updates for certain apps that don't make sense running while driving a car - where the "while-driving" becomes one of those bb10/dtek or built-in permission settings......and maybe, or maybe not adverts visual or audio for occupants.). Maybe it replaces the fm radio as well in these cars (not woofers and speakers)....not sure if they add "am" receiver into the existing SOC devices or not....climate control etc...
    11-14-17 10:03 PM
  25. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Dave? Dave's not here, man.
    Who's there?
    11-14-17 10:07 PM
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