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03-30-18 03:48 PM
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  1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Adopter Thurber was talking about an update that they were working on then , which was two months ago . Go view the podcast on YouTube
    I did watch it, but that's not what I remember. I think that, had he mentioned work.on a forthcoming BB10 update it would have been HUGE news on these forums. I'll rewatch it, but I suggest you do the same.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    11-11-17 04:28 PM
  2. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    You're making a few assumptions here that won't work in real life.

    One, unless you're one car, one person in your family, or you're willing to give up your smartphone when a family member is driving, this falls apart.
    man do i have to splain everything to the know-it-alls on this forum....okay then sit quietly on my knee while i read you a wonderful story...
    one owner gives permission via the phone to other driver's phones, and much like bbm the permission can be revoked,time,date limited, hourly restricted extra-cettera (be home before midnight kids). Some cars may be autonomous, some not, your smartphone may or maynot have the capability to house autonomous code....each manufacturer can have their own 'app'.

    Second, the cars of the future are going to need dedicated computers to enable autonomous functions. No one would ever trust a phone that can be mucked up easily with apps and such to peform such a vital function.
    If it was an android that is likely to be true.....even apple likely so.
    That's why a bb10 phone's foundational rtos/microkernel QNX will shine in this market -- which was the point no?
    Maybe you just get the phone with the car when you purchase it (initially at least) or not.
    As technology and autonomous vehicles advance, urban transportation will become a service, not something people own themselves.
    ....only if you are a communist and don't want to assert individual rights and autonomy. That's the whole point of lower emissions in private vehicles....public solutions are far more polluting generally. driven behind a school bus lately?
    The market for smartphone as vehicle computer is so small, kinda like the BB10 market.
    so is the current electric car market - who said it won't grow....like that's the idea
    The only way BB10 is ever coming back is if the dreamers in here come up with a multibillion funding plan that includes buying BlackBerry, because they likely won't sell BB10 on its own, and running the company itself.
    Dreamers and piles of money are usually like oil and water, former dreamers may now have piles of money after they met up with investors. Dreamers with a convincing dream may very well end up with a tidy pile at the end of the dream.
    If you are that solid in your beliefs that BB10 can turn a profit, I'm sure you can work on convincing enough investors to give it ago. The only respectable thing to do is for the moneywads to reward those dreamers heavily
    Well that is the tricky part aint it.....ideas don't always come from the insiders with the access does it (lou Gerstner...chairman of IBM who rescued it ...was an outsider)

    It'll be a lot quieter in here while all the business people are busy buying BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    You mean re-building BlackBerry.
    Last edited by i_plod_an_dr_void; 11-11-17 at 06:44 PM.
    11-11-17 04:35 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    Dreamers and piles of money are usually like oil and water
    Because dreamers never think of something that can realistically be implemented. Too much time spent in the land of chocolate.
    11-11-17 04:38 PM
  4. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I know the breakup is hard... it’s like having your longtime gf/bf break up with you and you can’t let go.

    I too am guilty: I still have my Z10 and Z30 hanging around. Sometime I would boot them up to see if there’s a software update... or just to play around with the gestures. It feels like home!

    But it’s time to move on! For some it takes more time than others... but you gotta be realistic. She/he is not coming back!
    Neither is Harley-Davidson....neither is Georges St. Pierre..(.mixed martial arts)....neither is......
    11-11-17 04:39 PM
  5. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Because dreamers never think of something that can realistically be implemented. Too much time spent in the land of chocolate.
    Tell that to Gene Roddenberry and his "Communicator". Kirk to enterprise....Kirk to enterprise..
    11-11-17 04:42 PM
  6. butterbean1983's Avatar
    Hasn't anyone realized that because his thought process isn't based on logic and fact, that no matter what we say he will always be able to come up with a response?
    11-11-17 04:56 PM
  7. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Hasn't anyone realized that because his thought process isn't based on logic and fact, that no matter what we say he will always be able to come up with a response?
    Good Question. Is the dream a higher form of brain function than thought and reason or a lower one? Or just a different one...or do they feed off of each other? Good question.
    11-11-17 05:03 PM
  8. butterbean1983's Avatar
    I'm not arguing with you dude, I have no respect for anything you have to say because you will find any way that you can to sidestep not only the facts and logic that are presented to you, but also the fact that no matter what crazy ideas you come up with you still have to get enough people behind those ideas and present it to BlackBerry and get them to support it as well. I certainly don't see any throngs of followers rallying behind you. To answer the question of logic vs dreaming, I am a highly logic based person and devote little time to anything that isn't logical. I am an "if this, then that" type of person meaning if this happens, then that logically follows. Logically, BlackBerry hasn't released a major update to BB10 in 2.5 years or a new BB10 device in 3.5 years. And if they haven't done that, then obviously they are not very concerned with the future of BB10. If they released a major update or announced a new BB10 device, only then would it be logical to even begin to assume that BB10 has any kind of a future. And until then, I don't care about anything else to do with BB10. I don't support your ideas and I'm not with you in your desire to come up with grassroots methods of resurrecting a commercially failed OS regardless of how good I think it once was.
    11-11-17 05:12 PM
  9. bobshine's Avatar
    Neither is Harley-Davidson....neither is Georges St. Pierre..(.mixed martial arts)....neither is......
    BB is no GSP of Harley Davidson! If you don’t see the difference... you’ll never understand!
    11-11-17 05:25 PM
  10. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I'm not arguing with you dude, I have no respect for anything you have to say because you will find any way that you can to sidestep not only the facts and logic that are presented to you, but also the fact that no matter what crazy ideas you come up with you still have to get enough people behind those ideas and present it to BlackBerry and get them to support it as well. I certainly don't see any throngs of followers rallying behind you. To answer the question of logic vs dreaming, I am a highly logic based person and devote little time to anything that isn't logical. I am an "if this, then that" type of person meaning if this happens, then that logically follows. Logically, BlackBerry hasn't released a major update to BB10 in 2.5 years or a new BB10 device in 3.5 years. And if they haven't done that, then obviously they are not very concerned with the future of BB10. If they released a major update or announced a new BB10 device, only then would it be logical to even begin to assume that BB10 has any kind of a future. And until then, I don't care about anything else to do with BB10. I don't support your ideas and I'm not with you in your desire to come up with grassroots methods of resurrecting a commercially failed OS regardless of how good I think it once was.
    You sure you're not a soldier process in the BB10 QNX kernel? Can't seem to hack your mind to see the dream I guess. That's fine. You don't have to agree with me...it isn't mandatory....open-ended discussions don't require complete assent.
    11-11-17 05:33 PM
  11. butterbean1983's Avatar
    Dreams don't pay bills
    11-11-17 06:13 PM
  12. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Dreams don't pay bills
    True. But dreams can give you life.
    11-11-17 06:34 PM
  13. conite's Avatar
    True. But dreams can give you life.
    As long as someone ELSE is paying the bills.
    11-11-17 06:45 PM
  14. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    BB is no GSP of Harley Davidson! If you don’t see the difference... you’ll never understand!
    No similarities at all??? What? Hardcore Brand loyalties? Import flood in their initially dominant market? Possible Bankruptcy path in both their pasts.....you got me stumped that there aren't any similiarities.
    True BlackBerry hasn't set up an interesting sciencey museum yet....
    http://www.stephenhicks.org/wp-conte...y-davidson.pdf

    Harley Davidson 1971 Crises ...{Strategos}
    11-11-17 08:02 PM
  15. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    As long as someone ELSE is paying the bills.
    Wouldn't have a Company any other way.
    11-11-17 08:32 PM
  16. bobshine's Avatar
    No similarities at all??? What? Hardcore Brand loyalties? Import flood in their initially dominant market? Possible Bankruptcy path in both their pasts.....you got me stumped that there aren't any similiarities.
    True BlackBerry hasn't set up an interesting sciencey museum yet....
    http://www.stephenhicks.org/wp-conte...y-davidson.pdf

    Harley Davidson 1971 Crises ...{Strategos}
    BB DOES NOT have hardcore brand loyalty. THEY DO NOT! THEY ARE NOT a legendary brand like Harley Davidson. THEY DID NOT retire at the height of their career like GSP.

    BB’s public perception is that it’s OUTDATED and OLD technology. They ARE NOT considered “sexy” like Harley Davidson. They are not at the top of their art like GSP.

    BB is more comparable to Kodak. They sat on their laurels and watched competition get ahead of them. And when BB introduced BB10, it was too late, just like Kodak when they started offering digital cameras.
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    11-11-17 08:41 PM
  17. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    BB DOES NOT have hardcore brand loyalty. THEY DO NOT! THEY ARE NOT a legendary brand like Harley Davidson. THEY DID NOT retire at the height of their career like GSP.

    BB’s public perception is that it’s OUTDATED and OLD technology. They ARE NOT considered “sexy” like Harley Davidson. They are not at the top of their art like GSP.

    BB is more comparable to Kodak. They sat on their laurels and watched competition get ahead of them. And when BB introduced BB10, it was too late, just like Kodak when they started offering digital cameras.
    Let me help you focus your attention a little on the similarities or parallels, you seem to be distracted by the fact it isn't a literal replica of BB (from the pdf file I provided a link to in the previous post....)
    BB does have a loyal brand base....if BB would let it. Harley was worse, not only was "perception" bad, but quality was actually horrible for a time.

    GSP - temporarily retired because he was a nervous wreck at the time in 2013, so not completely differ't here either, BB10 around the same time.

    AFM’s Harley-Davidson struck a curiously cavalier attitude toward the burgeoning
    market for cheaper, less-powerful bikes, which was dominated by the Japanese imports. In fact, in 1978, instead
    of increasing their production of light motorcycles, Harley-Davidson stopped making them altogether
    .....
    By 1981 Harley’s quality problems began having an impact on sales as Japanese competitors set their
    sites on the heavyweight market. The company’s sales fell a precipitous 18 percent to 41,000, and even Harley’s
    share of the U.S. super-heavyweight class fell below Honda’s 33.9 percent to 29.6 percent. Harley-Davidson’s
    domestic market share plunged to 5 percent. Even Hog cultists were buying Japanese bikes.
    Convinced it could do little to reverse the company’s declining fortunes, AMF began looking for a buyer. It found scant interest.

    They foresaw that a sale to an outside buyer
    would be disastrous. “An experienced, closely knit management team would have been replaced by people who
    didn’t know the motorcycle business at all—and the long-term values of the company would have gone down
    the drain,” he said


    . In 1982, estimated sales of all motorcycles
    in the United States fell 18 percent to 935,000, the first downturn since 1975. With Japanese-made bikes in correspond
    ing weight classes costing 25 percent to 50 percent less than Harley-Davidson bikes, the company’s condition quickly
    slipped from stable to critical. In 1980 Harley- Davidson had posted its first operating loss in fifty years. But the slow
    bloodletting quickly turned into a hemorrhage; in 1982 Harley-Davidson spilled $25 million in red ink.
    To complicate the situation, the LBO had left the company without the financial resources to weather the eco
    nomic slide. On May 26, 1982, less than a year after the LBO, Harley-Davidson announced a drastic austerity program.
    In a stroke, it laid off 426 workers, cut officers’ salaries up to 12 percent, froze workers’ salaries, suspended contribu
    tions to employees’ savings plans, and slashed production. By the end of 1982 the company had winnowed its work
    force a staggering 40 percent, to 2,200.
    ....you can read the rest of the story for yourself (in my links on the previous post)
    11-12-17 04:59 AM
  18. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Let me help you focus your attention a little on the similarities or parallels, you seem to be distracted by the fact it isn't a literal replica of BB (from the pdf file I provided a link to in the previous post....)
    BB does have a loyal brand base....if BB would let it. Harley was worse, not only was "perception" bad, but quality was actually horrible for a time.

    GSP - temporarily retired because he was a nervous wreck at the time in 2013, so not completely differ't here either, BB10 around the same time.

    AFM’s Harley-Davidson struck a curiously cavalier attitude toward the burgeoning
    market for cheaper, less-powerful bikes, which was dominated by the Japanese imports. In fact, in 1978, instead
    of increasing their production of light motorcycles, Harley-Davidson stopped making them altogether
    .....
    By 1981 Harley’s quality problems began having an impact on sales as Japanese competitors set their
    sites on the heavyweight market. The company’s sales fell a precipitous 18 percent to 41,000, and even Harley’s
    share of the U.S. super-heavyweight class fell below Honda’s 33.9 percent to 29.6 percent. Harley-Davidson’s
    domestic market share plunged to 5 percent. Even Hog cultists were buying Japanese bikes.
    Convinced it could do little to reverse the company’s declining fortunes, AMF began looking for a buyer. It found scant interest.

    They foresaw that a sale to an outside buyer
    would be disastrous. “An experienced, closely knit management team would have been replaced by people who
    didn’t know the motorcycle business at all—and the long-term values of the company would have gone down
    the drain,” he said


    . In 1982, estimated sales of all motorcycles
    in the United States fell 18 percent to 935,000, the first downturn since 1975. With Japanese-made bikes in correspond
    ing weight classes costing 25 percent to 50 percent less than Harley-Davidson bikes, the company’s condition quickly
    slipped from stable to critical. In 1980 Harley- Davidson had posted its first operating loss in fifty years. But the slow
    bloodletting quickly turned into a hemorrhage; in 1982 Harley-Davidson spilled $25 million in red ink.
    To complicate the situation, the LBO had left the company without the financial resources to weather the eco
    nomic slide. On May 26, 1982, less than a year after the LBO, Harley-Davidson announced a drastic austerity program.
    In a stroke, it laid off 426 workers, cut officers’ salaries up to 12 percent, froze workers’ salaries, suspended contribu
    tions to employees’ savings plans, and slashed production. By the end of 1982 the company had winnowed its work
    force a staggering 40 percent, to 2,200.
    ....you can read the rest of the story for yourself (in my links on the previous post)
    The Harley Davidson story is legendary and has similarities with BB. What's not stated in the story and is a very big part of it's turnaround was/is licensing. Back in the 70s, many American brands were enjoying a global fascination with Americanism. You could take American products to other countries and make a killing selling those brand products. This in turn led to products with American brands that had nothing to do with the brand itself.

    Clothing/Accessories were being made with American brand names. Those companies loved the free advertising from the people wearing the merchandise. Then, Harley Davidson was in dire financial straits. They became an early litigator to enforce licensing requirements and sued companies for using their brand name without paying royalties.

    In the land of brand licensing, Harley Davidson is legendary, second only to Walt Disney Company. Both companies used licensing back in the eighties to recover financial health.

    You're right about BB turnaround but you're so busy arguing for hardware, you're missing the big picture. John Chen and company have done the similar turnaround with the company and shed the similar product lines. BB was around before the phones and was more of a software company. They're focusing on their manufacturing expertise of software. They're licensing their brand for needed revenue. It's not about the hardware, it's about the software behind the scenes. QNX and related software development with driverless vehicles and the areas of artificial intelligence and virtual reality are its future growth.

    BB making its OS and devices would be like arguing for Harley Davidson to make T-shirts and other biker gear ignoring the profit in their successful motorcycles. You're right in focusing on rebuilding the company, you're just failing to see what a real turnaround specialist like Chen was hired to do. He was hired to rebuild the original software part of the company. BB only built hardware when there was no existing hardware for its software.

    Look at the big three, Apple, Google and Microsoft. What is their product? Hardware? Not really, it's the software and the ecosystem. Look at Microsoft, it's accepting in mobile, their real money is the brand of their software on the Google OS. Same with Apple. Look at Office 365.
    app_Developer likes this.
    11-12-17 07:06 AM
  19. Giuldant's Avatar
    You are wrong! I drive a Royal Enfield! Also a legend..and I love BlackBerry..also a legend worlwide..America is part of the world..not the world

    Posted via CB10
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    11-12-17 08:01 AM
  20. bobshine's Avatar
    Let me help you focus your attention a little on the similarities or parallels, you seem to be distracted by the fact it isn't a literal replica of BB (from the pdf file I provided a link to in the previous post....)
    BB does have a loyal brand base....if BB would let it. Harley was worse, not only was "perception" bad, but quality was actually horrible for a time.

    GSP - temporarily retired because he was a nervous wreck at the time in 2013, so not completely differ't here either, BB10 around the same time.

    AFM’s Harley-Davidson struck a curiously cavalier attitude toward the burgeoning
    market for cheaper, less-powerful bikes, which was dominated by the Japanese imports. In fact, in 1978, instead
    of increasing their production of light motorcycles, Harley-Davidson stopped making them altogether
    .....
    By 1981 Harley’s quality problems began having an impact on sales as Japanese competitors set their
    sites on the heavyweight market. The company’s sales fell a precipitous 18 percent to 41,000, and even Harley’s
    share of the U.S. super-heavyweight class fell below Honda’s 33.9 percent to 29.6 percent. Harley-Davidson’s
    domestic market share plunged to 5 percent. Even Hog cultists were buying Japanese bikes.
    Convinced it could do little to reverse the company’s declining fortunes, AMF began looking for a buyer. It found scant interest.

    They foresaw that a sale to an outside buyer
    would be disastrous. “An experienced, closely knit management team would have been replaced by people who
    didn’t know the motorcycle business at all—and the long-term values of the company would have gone down
    the drain,” he said


    . In 1982, estimated sales of all motorcycles
    in the United States fell 18 percent to 935,000, the first downturn since 1975. With Japanese-made bikes in correspond
    ing weight classes costing 25 percent to 50 percent less than Harley-Davidson bikes, the company’s condition quickly
    slipped from stable to critical. In 1980 Harley- Davidson had posted its first operating loss in fifty years. But the slow
    bloodletting quickly turned into a hemorrhage; in 1982 Harley-Davidson spilled $25 million in red ink.
    To complicate the situation, the LBO had left the company without the financial resources to weather the eco
    nomic slide. On May 26, 1982, less than a year after the LBO, Harley-Davidson announced a drastic austerity program.
    In a stroke, it laid off 426 workers, cut officers’ salaries up to 12 percent, froze workers’ salaries, suspended contribu
    tions to employees’ savings plans, and slashed production. By the end of 1982 the company had winnowed its work
    force a staggering 40 percent, to 2,200.
    ....you can read the rest of the story for yourself (in my links on the previous post)
    I studied Harley Davidson extensively and the similarities stops here:

    Harley Davidson was an iconic brand and had cult following, including biker gangs. People will buy à Harley and make sure it it was authentic by leaving a sheet of paper underneath to see if it leaked oil.

    Now you’re saying that BB is an iconic brand??? And has a cult following? I don’t see BlackBerry geek clubs, or people wearing T-Shirt with the BB logo on it. Oh wait! Sounds more like Apple!

    Apple and Harley has much much more in common brand wise and comeback wise. Both had cult followings even when they wear near bankrupt, but staged an incredible comeback. BB is nowhere like them!
    11-12-17 08:44 AM
  21. arfeo's Avatar
    BB10 is a dead end for BlackBerry.

    QNX is now a big part of their bread and butter, they can't open source BB10 without doing the same to QNX. And why? Even if BB10 were open source, who has both the skill and desire to work on fixing and maintaining it? CrackBerry tried to opensource their one BB10 app and couldn't get enough of the "community" interested in fixing it.
    Where can I get the source?

    Posted via CB10
    11-12-17 05:04 PM
  22. bronzedragon18's Avatar
    DrBoom , BB10does run Android apps does it not ? And the last time I checked, BB10 isn't Android... As for " having you on" , I take it that you haven't seen the UTB show . Go watch it. Regarding my theory, it is as I stated conjecture, yet given the current situation,makes sense. If you know something I don't, please share.
    As I pointed out, BB10 in its current state has no future. Also , as I again printed out, BlackBerry is just another Android OEM in a sea of such . I don't Blackberry is willing to settle for that. The rest is following the evidence and the money.
    11-12-17 07:40 PM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    DrBoom , BB10does run Android apps does it not ? And the last time I checked, BB10 isn't Android... As for " having you on" , I take it that you haven't seen the UTB show . Go watch it. Regarding my theory, it is as I stated conjecture, yet given the current situation,makes sense. If you know something I don't, please share.
    As I pointed out, BB10 in its current state has no future. Also , as I again printed out, BlackBerry is just another Android OEM in a sea of such . I don't Blackberry is willing to settle for that. The rest is following the evidence and the money.
    Hard to follow what you're talking about because your reply isn't linked to comment you're replying too. Use the "reply" option and we can follow along better.
    11-12-17 08:03 PM
  24. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    DrBoom , BB10does run Android apps does it not ? And the last time I checked, BB10 isn't Android... As for " having you on" , I take it that you haven't seen the UTB show . Go watch it. Regarding my theory, it is as I stated conjecture, yet given the current situation,makes sense. If you know something I don't, please share.
    As I pointed out, BB10 in its current state has no future. Also , as I again printed out, BlackBerry is just another Android OEM in a sea of such . I don't Blackberry is willing to settle for that. The rest is following the evidence and the money.
    Assuming USP = unique selling point, there may be a small problem with your assertion that BB10's ability to run android apps is an USP.
    11-12-17 10:59 PM
  25. bronzedragon18's Avatar
    Adopter , I rewatched the UTB Blogcast several times and that's what Thurber said . He also said that the NIAP certification was the issue and that the update was in a strategy phase. That's undoubtedly why there's been no news yet.
    11-13-17 01:13 AM
716 ... 1112131415 ...

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